Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 12:06:05 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Magic: The Gathering Online  |  Topic: Ravnica Completed Spolier 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Ravnica Completed Spolier  (Read 9110 times)
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


on: September 12, 2005, 03:17:54 AM

Available here...

http://mtgsalvation.com/?page=spoiler

Teh intarweb has taken a view that this is a very slow set with an awful lot of overcosted cards. To be fair it does look as though standard will be relying on Kamigawa and 9th for the early drops (and not to mention the jitte-hate).

omgwtfgiv card of the set ....

Circu, Dimir Lobotomist 2UB
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard (R)
Whenever you play a blue spell, remove the top card of target library from the game.
Whenever you play a black spell, remove the top card of target library from the game.
Opponents cannot play non-land cards with the same name as a card removed from the game with Circu, Dimir Lobotomist
2/3

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15542

The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid


Reply #1 on: September 12, 2005, 04:02:14 PM

Holy shit....

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #2 on: September 13, 2005, 02:45:57 AM

After reading through the spoiler I'm not impressed. It seems that each guild ahs one or two very preferred ways of playing, and the power level is all over the place. There are some really good cards, and tons of pretty awful filler. Also a lot of weird design decisionss, like 2/2 guys for 2 that have decent special abilities. There are a ton of 2/2 guys for 2, all of which are better than your typical grizzly bears.

And there is a WG 3/3 creature. I dunno, that seems pretty crazy to me. A 3/3 for 2 with no drawbacks?

I might post up a rundown later highlighting the best and worst cards as I see them. I do think they did what they said they wouldn't do, which is create block mechanics that are not going to work in the larger context. I mean, GW is basically centered on Saprolings, and BU on milling. Those aren't going to mix well with other blocks.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #3 on: September 13, 2005, 10:48:06 AM

Wizards makes me a sad panda. Sad Panda
Raging Turtle
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1885


Reply #4 on: September 13, 2005, 02:21:06 PM

I wonder if they'll ban every single transmute card for Prismatic.  Transmute is interesting but I don't understand the flavor. 

Reading more:  They're reprinting Dark Heart of the Wood!  Hah!  That's one of the very first magic cards I ever opened in a pack. 

Dimir Cutpurse is lovely.  Going to be expensive.  The Lobotomist is nasty but I think it might be a turn too slow for tourney level. 

Photohydrah is a fun, improved, Fungasaur; the kind of card I would have loved when I started playing. 

Watchwolf is strong, but white and green are the colors of good small creatures and good creatures, respectively.  Good but not overpowered. 

Screw you haters.  This is my favorite set since IPA.  The flavor is awesome and the cards are interesting.  That may change once I draft it and see the art, but for now I love it.
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #5 on: September 14, 2005, 12:00:42 AM

Lobotomist isn't really *that* slow, he's out on turn 3 or 4 and blanking cards on your next spell - blanking cards is the real threat, I see Rav UB being a fish deck rather than mill. Jitte was just as slow in Kamigawa.


"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #6 on: September 14, 2005, 01:06:44 AM

My favorite card is the black one that kills creatures with converted mana cost X, where X is the number of counters on it.

Anyway, about lobotomist. It's tough to wrap your head around it. First, think about it without the benefit of a deck built around it. And let's forget the milling aspect of it for now as well.

Whenever you play a spell, remove their top card from the game. If it's a land, no harm done. If it's not a land, they can no longer play any of that card. That means there are now at most 3 dead cards in their deck/hand. If they have one of those in play already it's just 2.

The next time you use lobotomist, there is a chance you will hit a dead card. Which actually HELPS them, because it prevents them from drawing it and wasting a turn. Of course if you hit a live card you've now again created 2 or 3 more dead cards. I guess the question is, at what point does that really start to pay off?

This is also basically a constructed only card, unless you care about the milling aspect. This card is also way way better if you can see the top of their library. That way you can leave all the dead cards on their library and only mill off cards that are still live. I can see that in some sort of wacky control-ish deck, especially if you can bounce and then kill their key cards. Of course, the problem there is you have to hold off on casting your own spells until you want to hit one of theirs, and counterspells are going to trigger the mill. This makes the "place back on top of their library" counterspell look pretty tasty though.

Which brings up a good question: If you bounce with a spell like boomerang, which happens first, or do you get to pick? Can I bounce a card back, then based on the triggering of that spell mill it off? I would guess the answer is no. (I'm no expert on magic rules)

If nothing else it's going to be very annoying and slowly build a weird sort of card advantage. Over the life of your game if you create 2 or so dead draws it's probably worth it, and that's very doable.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #7 on: September 14, 2005, 03:20:59 AM

Quote
Which brings up a good question: If you bounce with a spell like boomerang, which happens first, or do you get to pick? Can I bounce a card back, then based on the triggering of that spell mill it off? I would guess the answer is no. (I'm no expert on magic rules)

Boomerang only returns the card to hand, so it couldn't get milled off. What you are thinking of is Time Ebb, which returns a creature to the top of a library; however, in that case Circu's triggered ability would not be created until time ebb was on the stack, the ability goes on top of the spell on the stack and so the ability will resolve first (before the creature is on the library).

However, note that if circu has already milled a copy of the creature you hit with time ebb, then time ebb now more or less reads...

'Remove target creature from the game, if you do, the creature's controller skips his or her next draw step and his or her maximum hand size is reduced by one, when Circu, Dimir Lobotomist leaves play return the removed creature to it's controller's hand and increase his or her maximum hand size by one'

Which isn't too shabby for a 2U spell that can target any creature.

Also if you have a blue or black instant in hand you could choose to cast it as soon as time ebb resolves and get almost the same effect without the dead draw.

One more thing to remember in Rav block is that playing a spell that is both blue and black gets mills two cards and therefore gets you two shots at hitting a live target.

Where Circu is rather fragile is that if he is removed from play, all the blanked cards become active again, and recasting another Circu still has you back at square one. Still you can always toss in a mirror gallery ;)




EDIT: Whoo look at me, 1000 posts.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2005, 05:03:52 AM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #8 on: September 14, 2005, 10:26:31 AM

Boomerang only returns the card to hand, so it couldn't get milled off. What you are thinking of is Time Ebb, which returns a creature to the top of a library; however, in that case Circu's triggered ability would not be created until time ebb was on the stack, the ability goes on top of the spell on the stack and so the ability will resolve first (before the creature is on the library).

Yup, Time Ebb is what I was thinking of. So it works like I thought, Circu goes on stack then casting is resolved.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #9 on: September 14, 2005, 05:19:58 PM

Ravnica is a hard set to judge, I don't have a good feel for what constructed or even limited will play like. The auras are a good example. Are auras going to be a major factor in either constructed or limited? There are a few bombs, as well as auras that replace themselves with a card draw...I don't know. It's also very hard to judge things like convoke and radiance without trying them in some decks. Is tapping a couple of guys to cast another guy worth the tempo loss, loss of blockers/attackers, etc?

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Raging Turtle
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1885


Reply #10 on: September 26, 2005, 01:21:33 PM

Official spoiler is up with art!

But I found something better on the official MTGO boards, put together by someone with too much time:
http://home.socal.rr.com/topdeck/RAV.html

The art isn't bad, but I was more impressed by Kamigawa.  Either way it's very cohesive, there's definitely a uniform style there.  Love the land art.

More card reactions:  Veteran Armorer and Oathsworn Giant are going to be insane in limited.  Shouldn't be hard to get multiples of the Armorer.
What the fuck is with all the spirits.  Kamigawa is OVER.
The art on Hunted Dragon is great, and the other hunted cards aren't bad either.  Although the white one is weird. 
Not sure if Muddle the Mixture is going to be good enought to maindeck.  Maybe if control is strong.
Lots of strange creature types.  Veldalkens?  Oozes?  Viashinos?  Minotaurs, Imps, and Skeletons are going to help my Tribal decks. 
Char is really really good. 
Elves of Deep Shadow looks good AND avoids 'omg drow'
Why the hell is Golgari Grave Troll pink.
Seige Wurm looks like an armored earthworm.  Bleh.  Could've looked a lot better. 
Dimir Cutpurse is still going to be damn expensive. 
Vulturous Zombie in a discard deck?  Hm...

« Last Edit: September 26, 2005, 01:49:21 PM by Raging Turtle »
Xilren's Twin
Moderator
Posts: 1648


Reply #11 on: September 26, 2005, 03:54:07 PM

Official spoiler is up with art!
Some interesting cards...

Hex, 4BB, destroy 6 target creatures.  Hello limited bomb.
Hunted Horror..paying 2 black for a 7/7 trample creature has to be incredible abuseable, even if it gives your opporent two 3/3 prot black creatures...
Vindictive mob...can't be blocked by saprolings...Right.  Like that'll happen.
15!! Mana for a 9/14 Autochthon Worm? WTF?
Dimir Cutpurse is just nice...
Glimpse the Unthinkable: UB to mill 10 cards into graveyard.

Hmm, overall, looks like lots of overcosted stuff, but a few head scratcher that just say "please find a way to break me"

Xilren

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #12 on: September 26, 2005, 09:14:59 PM

The art and name of "Sabertooth Alleycat" ranks high on the unintentional comedy scale.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15542

The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid


Reply #13 on: September 27, 2005, 12:14:33 AM

Wow, I just thought of some evil things I can do with stuff like Panic attack, Icy Manipulator, and this guy:



At just a quick cursory glance, Ravinca is looking NICE. Especially since it's replacing Mirodin.

Now we just need to kill Kamigawa as quickly as possible.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2005, 12:16:10 AM by Strazos »

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15542

The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid


Reply #14 on: September 27, 2005, 12:18:48 AM

Just...Wow....



Nice art too.

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #15 on: September 27, 2005, 12:35:02 AM

Blockbuster kinda sucks.

No, wait, it does suck.
AOFanboi
Terracotta Army
Posts: 935


Reply #16 on: September 27, 2005, 11:32:54 AM

Blockbuster kinda sucks.
Not as long as it prevents creatures with less than 3 toughness from ganking you. Maybe rename to "No critter rush 4 U".

Current: Mario Kart DS, Nintendogs
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #17 on: September 27, 2005, 12:02:15 PM

I could see it as a potential sideboard card in a direct damage deck. Mostly because white weenie is looking good. But even then, no more than 2.
Raging Turtle
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1885


Reply #18 on: September 27, 2005, 12:36:32 PM

Blockbuster is a limited card, and a damned good one at that.  7 mana for three damage is a bit slow for contructed.   

Also, I just realized that playing a blue/black card would trigger the circumsizer twice.  Nice. 
Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15542

The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid


Reply #19 on: September 27, 2005, 02:01:18 PM

I don't understand how it would be slow for Constructed (where you can put in all the mana acceleration that you own), but not so for Limited....

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #20 on: September 27, 2005, 02:11:11 PM

Constructed decks to have a plan and execute them rapidly, 5 mana to cast and another 2 to activate is a lot for a card that basically just stalls the game.

Also it won't work with panic attack, that doesn't tap. Blinding Beam it would work with, among other things.

Limited games tend to run much slower as both players play out a wall of creatures. Even then though if you use pupeteer or master decoy to tap something they die as well. I think the maint point here is... think about it...


anti-convoke!

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Johny Cee
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3454


Reply #21 on: September 28, 2005, 05:42:18 PM

I don't understand how it would be slow for Constructed (where you can put in all the mana acceleration that you own), but not so for Limited....

You have alot more options in Constructed, which tends to weed out the less efficient spells.

In Standard, the goto in Red for clearing weenie decks is:

Pyroclasm (2 cc, 2 damage all creatures, sorcery)

Also, you could use Wild Fire or Flame Wave.

Most of the time, it's more efficient to splash some White for Wrath.

I could have seen this card seeing some play as anti-Rude Awakening tech since it can be used at instant speed,  but Rude is rotating out.

It will be big in Limited.  Any kind of board sweeper is big in limited though.  Plague Wind (destroy all creatures you don't control, ungodly casting cost) is a limited bomb,  but pretty close to unplayable in constructed.
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #22 on: September 28, 2005, 06:12:30 PM

To sweep the board your opponent has to have all his creatures tapped, and you have to have 7 mana free to surprise him. And for 7 mana 3 damage is pretty sad. Hideous Laughter costs 4 and is -2/-2, which is better in many ways.

To me this thing screams anti-convoke. Convoke is green-white which is going to have lots of small token creatures. So you play this as a threat to their convoke - if they choose to use convoke, all those little convokers die. Or, you can hold it back and play it after they convoke. Either way it is pretty good. It either stops them from convoking (which leads to a lot of overcosted stuff in their deck) or punishes their convoke by killing all the convokers.

I think there will be some league/draft and maybe some constructed deck based around convoke, and the point of convoke is that stuff is overcosted unless you have enough convokers, then they become good or even great. To me this card reads a lot like "cards with affinity no longer have affinity."

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Johny Cee
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3454


Reply #23 on: September 29, 2005, 04:23:04 PM

I'm an idiot.

Blockbuster WILL see some constructed play if a viable Enduring Ideal (the fetch an enchantment from your library each turn and put it into play epic spell) deck comes about.  Essentially,  it's a fetchable board clearer.  Maybe 1 copy in either main or board.  W/G deck, with some splash for other colors.
Jain Zar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1362


Reply #24 on: October 05, 2005, 07:41:33 PM

I got the Ravnica Fat Pack today for 25 bucks.  VERY cool cards.  Might start killing the mono decks and start promoting multicolor more.
Certain card abilities totally hose mono color decks too.  Nothing like "Destroy target card and any other card with the same color." as an effect.
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Magic: The Gathering Online  |  Topic: Ravnica Completed Spolier  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC