The Perfect Storm

[Calantus]

Yeah... this is why the politics forum was invented, it's the place where we get to be dicks to eachother if we're so inclined.

[cevik]

There is a thread in Politics about Katrina. Please feel free to continue the personal attacks and rhetoric there. Let's keep this thread focused on the storm and the relief efforts. Thanks.

Bah, they make your name green and you get all adult on us.. :p

Stray:  Don't take anything I say seriously.. I just enjoy yelling more than I enjoy actually making points..

[Margalis]

I never said don't blame the people in power. I said give the people in power time to do their fucking jobs RIGHT NOW WHEN THEY ARE NEEDED, as opposed to dicking around with suppositions you can't support anyway. Let's schedule it about NEXT FUCKING WEEK.

You are right about the FEMA director and local guardsmen and such, Yes, they have better shit to do. owever, Bush does not. He's been on vacation for a month! Furthermore, us posting a message board isn't really distracting anyone.

I do understand your point. It's fine for people like us to bitch now, but the media getting up in some guy's grill isn't appropriate until the worst is over.

And everyone of us has contributed to the gasoline problem by NOT reducing our own consumption of fuel and NOT forcing our politicians to research alternative energy sources and forcing them to raise fuel efficiency standards on cars.

Well..I don't own a car. :) Seriously, there is only so much you can do without armed revolt. Our political system is just hopelessly fucked - its just bad guys and less bad guys. The idea that elected officials serve the best interests of America has been lost for years and years. Thre was a time when politicians were actually great thinkers, not just great talkers.

If you think these gas prices are going to be temporary, think again.

In the long run, ther is no reason to believe gas prices will do anything but keep going up much faster than inflation.

We seem to have this notion that no matter what happen, human ingenuity will find a way. When gas slows to a trickle all our brainiacs will figure out something else. That is probably true, but while they are figuring it out there will be death, disease, hardship, etc. Almost everything in our country is based on oil, which IS going to run out. Demand is growing, supply is not - it's a simple equation. Furthermore supply is finite, demand is not.

Of course, Dick Cheney told the US that energy conservation was a bad idea. And when people fight for things like better fuel efficiency, they are derided as granola-eating hippies and such.

Edit: OK now back to poltics!

[Shockeye]

Oil spilling into Mississippi below New Orleans

Caskets Washing Up On Shores Of Mississippi

Heroes driving people to safety.

Ignorance is bliss.

[WayAbvPar]

And the hits just keep on coming. This is beyond depressing at this point.

[Sauced]

Depressing?  There's nothing to be depressed about!  Why, it's the perfect opportunity to take advantage of a vacationing Senate to rush through an appointment that would have been stuck in debate because she quite possibly endorsed torture!  What better time to hurry up with an important executive task than when the Senate might show up at any moment to push through some relief funding?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/01/AR2005090101449.html

Bush used a "recess appointment" Wednesday to name Alice S. Fisher to lead the agency's criminal division. Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., had blocked the nomination because he wants to talk to an agent who named Fisher in an e-mail about allegedly abusive interrogations at the U.S. military prison camp at Guantanamo.

When does the line get crossed?  The vast majority of people will never know this, or the fact that Nagin is a fucking hero, becuase W is kissing babies in Mississippi today.

[Shockeye]

or the fact that Nagin is a fucking hero

Not to everyone.

[stray]

Stray:  Don't take anything I say seriously.. I just enjoy yelling more than I enjoy actually making points..

It's all cool, man. I know that you do, in fact, have a point though (yelling or not), and I agree with some of the complaints being raised. Though I tried to ward off political talk here, I'm not as politically passive as I might come off. I vote Libertarian "out of principle" (win or lose), and I'm definitely not a fan of Bush. I just think that that kind of passion, be it good or bad, might get out of hand here. Sorry if I offended, man.

[HaemishM]

I will say this about Nagin and the police in New Orleans. Their inability to act on the very first day of looting did not start at the individual level, it has to go back up the chain of command. It has to go to the Police Chief and the Mayor for issuing policies to the police. I believe that had these two guys had the authority to tell their officers "Shoot to kill looters" or even just shoot them. Sure, they could have even said, only shoot those idjits who are trying to drag off useless items or are physically hurting others, but something. All the reports I'm hearing are that the police had no idea what to do, had no training or orders about what to handle. Were they all out doing rescues? No, because we have numerous reports of cops standing by and watching the looting. So they were put out there on what amounts to riot duty with no real direction as to what to do, and they responded accordingly. Blame starts at the top and rolls downhill.

[Righ]

I never said don't blame the people in power. I said give the people in power time to do their fucking jobs RIGHT NOW WHEN THEY ARE NEEDED, as opposed to dicking around with suppositions you can't support anyway. Let's schedule it about NEXT FUCKING WEEK.

You should know, I'm absolutely no supporter of Bush or his flimsy excuses for why things got fucked to hell and back. But grilling the FEMA director? Fuck you, reporters, I'm sure there are about 20 BILLION phone calls he could be making in that 30 seconds you spend blaming him for death and destruction.

The FEMA director chose to talk to the press, if he could be better employed making 20 billion phone calls, you'd better believe I hold him responsible for wasting his time in front of cameras. One presumes somebody else is handling those calls. Clearly the man has chosen, wisely or not, to act as a figurehead and conduit to the press. There's good reason to throw criticism in his direction - perhaps it will give him a needed wakeup call that there is a disconnect somewhere in his organisation:

FEMA disconnects

[kaid]

I am not sure why anybody is calling the mayor of NO a hero. The leadership in this should have first come from mayor then from the govenor and last from the feds. Unfortunatly the first two apparently passed the buck and the blame on to the feds. Yes for the larger scale stuff you need to call in the feds but when the local leadership fell back on whining about the feds and not showing any real leadership the problems just got that much worse.

[voodoolily]

So, if you're begging for help and you don't get it from the people who are supposed to give it to you, then that means that you fucked up? How much larger scale does this need to be for the fucking feds to step in? Like I said, hurricanes are an Act of God, not terrorists, and this time instead of rich white execs getting hammered it's poor black folk. Gee, I wonder why the ass-dragging on the federal end?

[Roac]

So, if you're begging for help and you don't get it from the people who are supposed to give it to you, then that means that you fucked up?

He can't be blamed for what the feds do or don't do, so long as he's made the proper requests.  He can be blamed for the behavior of NOPD and other city officials.

[voodoolily]

So, if you're begging for help and you don't get it from the people who are supposed to give it to you, then that means that you fucked up?

He can't be blamed for what the feds do or don't do, so long as he's made the proper requests. He can be blamed for the behavior of NOPD and other city officials.

Touche. But really, what can he even do about them? Fire them?

Edit: also, it doens't seem like Nagin is trying to weasel out of getting blamed for anything, he just wants some relief.

[Cheddar]

F13.net, now with 35% more opinions!  Lets keep this focused on the disaster and keep opinions in the shithole, aka Politics.  Thank you.

[schild]

Leave the modding to the mods, k?

_{This post does not need a response. Suriously.}

[Sky]

There's a politics board here?

[Shockeye]

There's a politics board here?

Yes. It's next to the front page.

[Righ]

There's a politics board here?

Yes. It's next to the front page.

There's a front page here?

[schild]

Grrrr. *Snarl*

[jinxer]

Hahaha.  I have no idea why, but you're growl made me smile.  Not like a smirk or lol, but just a big shit-eating grin.   





ps.  Thanks.

[Roac]

But really, what can he even do about them? Fire them?

Yeah, for starters.  Take away their badge and gun so that they don't encourage more problems by their presense.  Really, I don't know that he's done anything specifically wrong.  It looks from here (yeah yeah, so easy to arm chair things) that there is a lack of direction to the PD, because it's not just one or two people.  Cops looting?  This isn't getting food and water, this is opening the doors to the building and letting it be ravaged.  It's not that Wal-Mart hasn't written off the whole thing as a loss already anyhow, but it encourages chaos in the city.  It's encouraging people to give into the mob mentality and give up on control.  Citizens feel like there is no direction, and that tells me that the people in charge are not giving much direction - of which, the mayor is one.

[kaid]

Take a look at the picture of the schoolbusses and tell me that the evacuation of the city was well handled. They had a couple days before it hit to prevent things like this which could have been a huge asset to just another sad loss. This kind of thing you can lay right at the feet of the mayor.


kaid

[Shockeye]

10 Mind-Numbingly Stupid Quotes About Hurricane Katrina And Its Aftermath

LSU QB puts up Fats Domino & family for two days

Breaking: "Authorities say a busload of Hurricane Katrina evacuees has overturned, killing one man."

[Shockeye]

Halliburton hired for storm cleanup

Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money.

However, given the ongoing situation in the city, I am forced to make an extremely difficult decision – Tulane University cannot hold a fall semester on its campus.

[Llava]

Halliburton hired for storm cleanup

Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money.

To quote Haemish:
RAGE

[Fabricated]

Halliburton hired for storm cleanup

Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money.

I have no idea why, but that makes me really, really fucking angry. Everything that happens makes Bush and Co. profit. Everything.

[Evangolis]

There are several threads in politics where you can happily bust people's chops.  I started the first one in hopes that we could deliver flames, deserved and otherwise, there.  I know it is not my job to moderate, but as somebody who has been plenty critical, I do feel some need to give those who want a bit of peace and support some safe place.  Shelter is more than just a roof.

Toward that end, let me offer some positive bits from the Chicago area that likely haven't made the national news.

Radio station WXRT raffled off Rolling Stones tickets hourly for two days to anyone who sent them a $100+ donation receipt from the Red Cross.  The got more than $200,000 in reciepts.

Other local media outlets are doing similar stuff.

McCormick-Tribune is collecting donations, and is paying 100% of the administrative costs themselves.  All the money collected will go on to relief.

Rapper Kanye West held a benefit concert.  Many of the musicians in town for this weekend's Jazz Festival are doing benefit performances in local clubs before and during the Festival.  The Festival will also be donating a portion of it's proceeds.  Other events in town are also doing this.

The Govenor sent about 100 Illinois Gaurd troops a couple of days ago.  There is a medical unit from the City of Chicago in the area now, and Mayor Daley has offered to contribute several hundred city workers, with equipment and logistical support, including police, medical, SAR, Streets and Sanitation, and Engineering staff.  The Mayor of Toronto has contacted the mayor of Chicago about the Canadian Mayor's conference sending money, supplies, and people to help.

Many Chicago families have relatives in the Gulf Coast area.  They have opened their homes to their relatives on a long term basis, and their neighbors have offered to help them with supplies and bed space.

Perhaps something good has happened near you that you would care to relate.

[voodoolily]

YEah, I was wondering what happened to the Deep South rappers like C-Murder who brag about being from NO. Now that they're millionaires, what're they doing to help?

[Shockeye]

Daley 'Shocked' By Slow Response To Katrina
Federal Officials Request Only One Fuel Truck From Chicago

CHICAGO -- Mayor Richard M. Daley said Friday he was "frustrated" by the pace of the federal response to Hurricane Katrina and "shocked" federal officials have thus far only requested Chicago send a single fuel tanker truck to help in the relief efforts.

...

Was FEMA ready for a disaster like Katrina?

By Lisa Myers
Senior investigative correspondent
NBC News
Updated: 6:46 p.m. ET Sept. 2, 2005

...

What's more, it appears that the federal government did not follow up on an exercise last year that mostly predicted what happened in New Orleans — devastating flooding and hundreds of thousands stranded.     

The scenario was dubbed Hurricane Pam: 120 mph winds, a massive storm surge, 20 feet of water in the city, 80 percent of buildings damaged, refugees on rooftops, possibly gun violence that would slow the rescue.

"What bothers me the most is all the people who've died unnecessarily," says Ivor Van Heerden, a hurricane researcher from Louisiana State University who ran the exercise.

Van Heerden says the federal government didn't take it seriously.

"Those FEMA officials wouldn't listen to me," he says. "Those Corps of Engineers people giggled in the back of the room when we tried to present information."

...

Bold mine.

[Evangolis]

See, now I intentionally left out that part of Daly's news conference.  You don't have to be Fox News to focus on the positive.

Other good things, one of the Chicago Bulls set up a foundation to aid his hometown of Slidel, which was wiped out in the storm.

The Salvation Army has sent it's portable phone center down to help refugees contact relatives.

Ok, now I'm going to go say something pissy in politics.

[MrHat]

What the hell does a shit-eating grin look like?

[Calantus]

Please do not answer the above question, I only barely avoided the imagery as it was.

[Evangolis]

Other nice things:

Among the help that is being offered by foriegn governments is this from an MSNBC story.

The governments of 26 countries agreed Friday to release the equivalent of 2 million barrels of oil per day from strategic fuel reserves to cope with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the International Energy Agency said.

Among the places passing the hat, Bosnia and Kosovo.

And somethings have gone right. Nobody dies at NOLA hospital. Although they had to do it largely on their own.

[Riggswolfe]

I have to admit I wonder what the long term affects of all this will be. Seriously. It's been discussed in this thread already but in recent memory nothing has affected the U.S. this badly. Hell, this is worse than September 11th by far. I just recently got a job for my state government (Oklahoma) and I am so thankful for it.

I also wonder what the U.S. having these kinds of problems will do to the rest of the world. We know it'll affect Canada, and probably Central and South America. But really, if our economy takes a huge hit that's gonna have ripple affects across the ocean as well.

God, let's hope that Al Queda doesn't take this chance to hit us. Nail another port or an oil refinery and things could get really scary.