The Perfect Storm

[Sky]

gas at the pumps has jumped $.30 roughly in the last 3 weeks in Canada.  Seriously.  It's $1.28 a litre where I live.

Gas in my town jumped 30¢ yesterday. The guy at my station (full service for shitty convinience store prices) says they are bumping it up 15¢ more at 2pm this afternoon.

That's a 45¢ increase in under 24 hours.

Shit is going to get nasty real soon. Luckily heat is included in my rent, looks like another winter in the ghetto.

[Sobelius]

Mississippi coast not getting coordinated help.

This is hard to understand without believing that what's happened on the gulf coast is nothing less than the full collapse of the area's energy, transportation, and communication infrastructures.

[Signe]

It would be a good thing if people who are quoting gas prices could give some idea of location to make the references more meaningful.  It's happening nearly everywhere, it seems, but there seems to be a bit of difference in the amounts.

[Sauced]

David Brooks' op-ed in the NY Times (sub.) is a good read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/opinion/01brooks.html

[Sobelius]

One of my co-workers had family/friends in the Gulfport area. Here is something he received today from friends of his regarding Keesler Airforce Base

==========================================

Here is the news about Keesler that some people got thru HAM radio.
 
Folks,
Here's what has happened to our own USAF brethren at Keesler AFB, Gulfport, MS
- Base housing was largely destroyed by a 25 foot wave
- There's 4 feet of mud in Maj. En Utterback's house (2 AF/CC)
- MSG/CC house burned to the ground (gas leak caught fire)
- 6000 USAF members and their families are living in shelters
- The power will be out there for at least 3 weeks
- The 2nd largest USAF hospital (at Keesler) is closed
-- Seawater got into the generator and they have no power
- Commissary/BX mostly destroyed
- Runway is operational; it's the only open airfield in the area
-- Day/VFR conditions only
- Gulfport Airport is closed for the foreseeable future
- The fence around the base is severely damaged
- Keesler had looters last night
-- Maxwell AFB is sending an SF detachment to reinforce the Keesler SF
- Parts of I-10 are under water; at least one major bridge is down
- Keesler has almost no communications (landline or cell)
-- They are relying primarily on radios

[voodoolily]

Hey, look on the bright side - now all that stock you own in bioremediation is gonna go through the roof. It's kind of ironic, but one of the more important functions of urban wetlands is improvement of water quality functions (besides floodwater storage, which is obviously as important). The City of Portland implements man-made wetlands at our sewage treatment plants to clean the waste before the water is released to the Columbia River. A possible solution to the VERY SERIOUS pollution problem is to construct mitigation wetlands along the entire expanse of floodplain. I seriously hope they do something to address the reasons "why", especially since wetland remediation is such an inexpensive, viable option for the rehabilitation of the landscape. The land can actually be drained by construcing wetlands, and it would provide lots of jobs for construction workers and unskilled laborers (who I imagine are gonna get the most fucked economically) Also, it bums me out that the USACE isn't getting money, since the Corps is the federal entity that takes jurisdiction over wetlands under the Clean Water Act. I imagine what will happen is private companies will contract with the Corps to rebuild most of the damaged bridges and whatnot.

[Merusk]

What bothers me is the people where I live.  They honestly have no idea of the impact this will have for the nation; to them it is just another Andrew, effecting people in another state.  I love the Hampton Roads, but sometimes I wonder about the people.  Is it like this in other areas of the country?

Yes.. at least my coworkers and the folks calling the news radio show I heard as I was headed out to a site are clueless.  Lots of bitching about the $ .50 price increase in gas Cinci got yesterday, but little realization that it's a drop in the bucket compared to what's to come.

Also, I didn't watch Dateline last night, but just heard about this.  A big FUCK YOU to the reporter who cornered the Army Engineer and made it seem like his personal callousness is what caused the levee to be designed for 'only' a cat 3.   If they don't have the money given to them to build for a cat 5, it's not going to happen. It's that simple.  Someone, somewhere looked at the numbers on a page and said "Oh, that'll never happen it's not worth the extra billion."  THAT is the man you should be pissed at, in addition to the budget cuts to Flood/ wetlands protection that have been made over the last 6 years, not the corps.   America, you elected the dumbfucks, now we're all paying for it.

[Sobelius]

Very useful image -- CNN posts satellite image of NO taken yesterday.

[Sky]

It would be a good thing if people who are quoting gas prices could give some idea of location to make the references more meaningful.  It's happening nearly everywhere, it seems, but there seems to be a bit of difference in the amounts.

Central upstate NY, an hour from anything that could really be termed metro. Ie: bumfuck nowhere, farmland.

[stray]

It was $2.69 yesterday. Now it's $2.89.

San Antonio, TX

[Cheddar]

It was $2.69 yesterday. Now it's $2.89.

San Antonio, TX

$6 dollars in Atlanta. 

[Yegolev]

It was $2.69 yesterday. Now it's $2.89.

San Antonio, TX

$6 dollars in Atlanta. 

Prices in the ATL are all over the spread, depending on where you are.  Check the BP on MLK near Bronner Bros.; it was $2.99 this morning around 0900.

[voodoolily]

$2.69 is what we've been paying all summer. Since I don't drive, I haven't been paying attention but this spells doom.

[Merusk]

Figures.. I mentioned the price increase, as requested, but forgot to name the price.  $3.09 in Cinci, a $ .50 increase yesterday at noonish.  Many speculate it will go up again tomorrow due to the long Labor Day weekend and approach $4 soon.

I'm now trying to figure out how many blankets I need so I can keep my house at 60 degrees or cooler all winter, because this is going to kill me.

[Yegolev]

For reference, the prices in the ATL metro sprawl only hit the "ridiculous" sum of $2.50 last week.  Before then, it hovered between $2.20 and $2.30 most of the summer.

I'm not complaining about the gas prices, really, but I am concerned about the ripple effect on other areas.  The fact that my commuting cost is now about $60 per week is somewhat bothersome, though.

[Shockeye]

Here's a video from MSNBC of police looting inside a Wal-Mart.

[schild]

Many oil refineries are operating at 35-40% capacity due to the hurricane. THere are problems, particularly among the gas sector in terms of oil.

On another note, the market didn't fall apart and Motorola hit a new high today (as in better than the last 5 years new high). Thankfully, the flubtards up at Wall Street decided not to let the hurricane rain on their parade.

[cevik]

Here's a video from MSNBC of police looting inside a Wal-Mart.

I don't know about you guys, but if civilization as I know it ends here in Tulsa, I'm probably not going to have many scruples when it comes to smashing a window and getting my son some food. 

I fail to see why the looting is such a huge story.. I usually have enough food in my house to last a week at a time at the most, I just don't have Y2k stockpiles of food (anymore).  If a huge natural disaster cuts me and my family off from the rest of the world, I'm without power, the stores are closed, and I'm unable to leave because the streets are flooded,  I'm not really going to think twice before I break into wal mart and get me some phat lewtz (read: chiken).. It's not "looting" it's "survival".. Or are we only "shocked" because it's mostly poor black people doing it?

[MrHat]

Might I suggest something other than Chicken?

[cevik]

Might I suggest something other than Chicken?

You can suggest whatever you like, but when my two year old starts screaming for some chicken, he usually gets chicken.. ;)

[Shockeye]

My problem is the POLICE DOING THE LOOTING.

Thank you and drive through.

[Sobelius]

Economically, I think this is going to be bigger than most people realize. As this USA Today article explains, the "just in time" oil/refinery network on the gulf coast has a lot of choke points.

This live journal from a web hosting company still in operation in downtown NO is gritty reading.

[cevik]

My problem is the POLICE DOING THE LOOTING.

I can't think of anyone better to be doing it.. I hope that throughout New Orleans the men and women who have promised to "protect and serve" are busting into wal marts and getting needed supplies for the survivors who are cut off from the rest of humanity..  If I were police officer I'd see it as my duty to take what is needed to keep people alive and safe..

EDIT:  Gas = $2.99 here in Tulsa (well, Broken Arrow, I haven't wanted to spend the gas money to drive the extra 20 feet into Tulsa proper)..

[Soln]

It would be a good thing if people who are quoting gas prices could give some idea of location to make the references more meaningful.  It's happening nearly everywhere, it seems, but there seems to be a bit of difference in the amounts.

use this folks for local averages: http://www.gaspricewatch.com/new/

Weekly U.S. Retail Gasoline Prices, Regular Grade
city data there

[schild]

Yea, gas for me is $3.17 a gallon. Fucking 30 cents more than regular unleaded. Blurgh, fuck you premium.

[HaemishM]

I'm just going to preface all my jokes with this so people don't get bothered or thinking that I'm not taking the situation seriously.

Humor is how I deal with stuff like this, ignore it or join me-
According to their Senator, they "absolutely" plan to rebuild.  Think they'll call it "New New Orleans"?

Humor is also the way I deal with shit like this. Also remember that for people even close to this, even a joke can sting pretty hard. Also, I'm going to be replying to posts as I get to them, because I haven't been much on the boards the last week.

My suggestion has been to rename the motherfucker Atlantis. Move west a few miles and start again, someplace that isn't stuck below sea level between the Father of Rivers and a giant fucking Lake.

[HaemishM]

I find it slightly odd that nothing was done about the levees years ago. They were made of simple earth....If I remember correctly, earthen walls can be washed away fairly easily.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if money had been pumped into countermeasures for such flooding, the damages, and particularly the flooding, could have been reduced signifigantly.

It works for London and the Thames, and for Venice.

The New Orleans paper, the Times Picayune, ran a story about 3 years ago on what would/could happen if such a hurricane hit New Orleans directly. They didn't get the sequence of events right, but the results? You are seeing them on the news nightly. Apparently, the problem was funding.

As for Biloxi, yeah, even before the casinos, the place has always been somewhere I'd NEVER live. I'd turn gay first. I just hated the places. The casinos helped that area survive, what with all that sweet, sweet tax revenue. Unfortunately, we (i.e. the State Legislature or maybe it was the Feds) decided that gambling was such a terrible evil that it couldn't be allowed on US land, but it was ok on navigable international waters, which apparently begins 5 feet offshore, or miles up the Mississippi River. Had those casinos not been required to be FUCKING FLOATING BARGES and had actually been structures, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have ended up across I-90. They'd have had damage, sure. But they'd be standing and people might have jobs to come back to in the next 6 months.

Hypocrisy does it again.

[Yegolev]

The residential areas should be on high ground.  The industrial areas are where they are for a reason.

I don't have a single problem with looting.  It's like The-fucking-Stand down there.  If my family needs food or drink in that situation, well just watch me toss a brick into that window and load my boat with essentials.  As for those who are looting jewelry and plasma TVs instead of food and water, Mother Nature has a solution for that sort of retardation.  Let'em haul a DVD player back home and try to eat it two weeks from now.

[Shockeye]

Yea, gas for me is $3.17 a gallon. Fucking 30 cents more than regular unleaded. Blurgh, fuck you premium.

West valley is still hovering around $2.99.

And we have no black widows.

[Signe]

I don't know how prevalent it is that police are looting, but I suspect it's not a commonplace occurance.  There are police inside hotels and other structures guarding because they are too afraid to go outside.  People are saying they don't see any police they can ask for help... but there is no direction and they don't know what to do to help and, perhaps, they are out-numbered by angry people who may also be armed. I might hide, too.  I do know that as time passes, and I look at the television, the old faces look sadder and sicker and the young faces look angrier and more threatening.  These are people in an impossible situation.  They are doing what they think they need to do to survive and not everyone is succeeding.  Even those policemen might need some assistance in surviving... I'm sure they have families that they are desperately worried for.  I'm beginning to wonder if more people will die waiting for help than did in the hurricane.

It's really messed up and I find it very difficult not to blame W for the worst of it. 

[Bunk]

My problem is the POLICE DOING THE LOOTING.

I can't think of anyone better to be doing it.. I hope that throughout New Orleans the men and women who have promised to "protect and serve" are busting into wal marts and getting needed supplies for the survivors who are cut off from the rest of humanity..  If I were police officer I'd see it as my duty to take what is needed to keep people alive and safe..

EDIT:  Gas = $2.99 here in Tulsa (well, Broken Arrow, I haven't wanted to spend the gas money to drive the extra 20 feet into Tulsa proper)..

I'd agree with you if there wern't reports of Police coming out of wal*mart with TVs rather than supplies.

[Cheddar]

There are people reporting from inside NO about the situation.  Evidently most the law abiding citizens have set up enclaves around the city, defending themselves from looters and trying to provide assistance to each other.  I would have to agree with Signe from what I have read;  many police are holed up with citizens, off the street, attempting to defend themselves and their location.  One "inside" view is here:

http://www.ernietheattorney.net/

edit.  Replaced blog link with another to appease our glorious masters.

[schild]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=4463.msg113513#msg113513

[cevik]

I'd agree with you if there wern't reports of Police coming out of wal*mart with TVs rather than supplies.

I don't know, for every 1 video of people I've seen looting "questionable" items, I've seen 100 videos of people looting shoes, food, drinks, and clothes.. you know, the stuff you need to live.. so while I have no doubt that I've heard lots of rich white males libertarians on "teh internetz" talking about "looting plasma TVs" I've rarely seen such a thing actually occuring.. And honestly, who really cares if someone loots a plasma tv from a wal mart that is soon to be submerged in water?  Which of you rich white chic libertarians is going to buy a 40" plasma tv from that's been underwater in New Orleans for 30 days?  Don't you think that perhaps that stock is pretty much useless now anyways?  And in the end, don't you think the person starving to death in their attic clucthing a plasma TV and no food is justice enough in itself?

Besides, let he who read The Stand and didn't think of that one "cool" item he'd steal if he were one of the survivors cast the first stone.. I know I was planning on going after a high end motorcylce myself.. just me an my bike and the plague ridden land mutherfuckerz!

[Cheddar]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=4463.msg113513#msg113513

Fixed.  Sorry.