The Perfect Storm

[Evangolis]

Lessee, first off, glad to hear from those who were there in the area and escaped worse.  Hope the same prevails broadly, but I fear not.

On the cemetaries, let's hope that the reports of bodies floating in the street in New Orleans is mostly corpses from the cemetaries.  But I fear not.

On the levee's, patching them is probably a longshot.  I've seen a lot of flood on the Upper Mississippi, and have a generation of stories from kin who lived on the bottomland, and basically, once the levee goes, it doesn't get fixed until the water goes down.  I expect that the water levels will have to equalize before they can hope to patch the lake levees and pump the city out.  If the river levees go, then engineering miricales will need to be produced.

On looting, I'd note that the city is entirely flooded, the roads are cut, likely the only way out is via boat, and everyone may have to leave or die.  What exactly are people going to do with looted big screen plasma TVs? 

Finally, while the impact on the affected area is brutal and tragic, the effect on the rest of the country is going to be profound.  We may be in the process of losing a major city and the largest port in the country, along with severe damage to several other cities.  This cannot be a good thing for our economy.

[voodoolily]

"When the levee breaks, we'll have no place to stay."

Edit: I'd like to remind everyone that humans are tenacious fuckers and there will always be hangers-on. I mean, look at the countries of Thailand and Vietnam. THose people live on nasty, polluted water and are doing just fine, thank you. New Orleans has always been aware of the potential for bodies to come rising out of their graves, so I guess now people will just hafta get cremated. It's gonna suck for awhile, but everything'll be just fine, mark my words.

[Fabricated]

Good to hear Haem is alright.

Other than that though. Jesus Christ. There goes a whole city. I mean, a whole fucking city. Utterly gone, with rebuilding not even able to fucking START for a long time.

At least the fucking water went away after the Tsunami (nevermind that was a pathetic small freebie from god compared to the INCREDIBLE amount of death).

[Shockeye]

I don't know if rebuilding is really a smart idea. Building or rebuilding a city below sea level next to the sea really isn't the greatest idea.

[EDIT] Unconfirmed reports of riot at New Orleans Parish Prison; deputies and their families who took shelter there held hostage.

[voodoolily]

I agree with Shockeye. What was convenient in the 1700s isn't necessarily great shakes nowadays.

Humans have drastically altered weather patterns over the last few generations (since the Industrial Revolution) through all of our pollution and now the poorest nations (and poorer parts of rich nations) have to pay for it. It's really too bad.

[Cheddar]

I agree with Shockeye. What was convenient in the 1700s isn't necessarily great shakes nowadays.

Humans have drastically altered weather patterns over the last few generations (since the Industrial Revolution) through all of our pollution and now the poorest nations (and poorer parts of rich nations) have to pay for it. It's really too bad.

Hippy. We are well within the norm for our planet as far as environments are concerned.  But building below see level, this is a problem.

[voodoolily]

Watch yer mouth, boy. I'm no hippie. Humans are already intentionally altering rain patterns in dry agricultural areas by seeding clouds with particulate so the water molecules will condense.

[TheWalrus]

  I've looked through quite a lot of news stories and have yet to see any other nations offering any aid. Odd that.

 And I do hope a good number of those looters are shot.

[Trippy]

I've looked through quite a lot of news stories and have yet to see any other nations offering any aid. Odd that.

Actually at least one has.

[Fargull]

Haem and Pop,

Glad to hear you made it through realatively safe.

Evangolis,

Was thinking the same thing.  That and the soul of Jazz just took a strong right cross.  Damn.

[stray]

You know's what worse than wading around in polluted water? Or hell, even drowning in it?

Fucking alligators, man. Snakes. Leeches. Creepy crawly things. The fact that your neighborhood just turned into a swamp overnight. That would be such a bitch if you survived the worst hurricane in U.S. history, but ended up getting your limbs bitten off by a giant meat eating lizard.

[HaemishM]

Why isn't anyone stealing propane, I wonder? Or are they just not reporting the people smart enough to loot essentials like fuel, campstoves and water filters (Nalgene makes ones that can be used to filter swamp water)? Sheesh. Amateurs. Lotta good that DVD player is gonna do you when you're dying of dysentary.

Think about the people who are left in New Orleans. These are people who IGNORED a mandatory evacuation order. Now, I can understand people not having transportation out of town, or being too infirm to leave. But if you are fucking dumb enough to ignore civil authorities telling you that this shit was coming, AND you start looting fucking jewelry cases in a Wal-Mart in the middle of a disaster area when this place is giving away food and things you need? You are a fucking waste of skin. There are special places in hell for those fuckers. It isn't even like they have power to use the fucking flat-screen TV. I mean seriously, you may be stuck in the earthly equivalent of hell, but that doesn't mean you have to try to outdemon the demons.

And Strazos? The tactical nuke already hit New Orleans. That's the problem with tac nukes, they hit people who were just minding their own business. You have to get personal with the people who really deserve the bad shit.

From the news I'm getting, New Orleans is almost a lost cause. It sounds like they are going to have to start almost entirely over. The Mississippi Gulf Coast? The same way. Our governor took a tour there today. He starts naming towns, and the only thing he can say about them is "Gone."

[Kenrick]

Hell on earth gets hell-ier.

Aug. 30, 2005 — Inmates at a prison in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans have rioted, attempted to escape and are now holding hostages, a prison commissioner told ABC News affiliate WBRZ in Baton Rouge, La.

Orleans Parish Prison Commissioner Oliver Thomas reported the incident to WBRZ.

A deputy at Orleans Parish Prison, his wife and their four children have been taken hostage by rioting prisoners after riding out Hurricane Katrina inside the jail building, according to WBRZ.

Officials are expected to hold a press conference regarding the riots at 9 p.m. ET.

A woman interviewed by WBRZ said her son, a deputy at the prison whose family is among the hostages, told her that many of the prisoners have fashioned homemade weapons. Her son had brought his family there hoping they would be safe during the storm.

[Fabricated]

On the lighter side...

[Cheddar]

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

Up to date news for those tracking what is happening.  It is depressing; things are getting worse and worse.  I was semi positive after reading that the storm veered away, but now all the predictions for worse case scenerios seem to be happening one by one.

And poor Biloxi.  I just saw some pictures from the Base down there (I did training there back in 99-00) and it is hurting.  All the casinos are reported blown away except one; ironically the Pirate Ship one is still there (I forget what its called).  One casino was pushed on top of a Days Inn even. 


Additional: Does anyone here know if they are accepting volunteers from the Individual Ready Reserve to assist with recovery efforts (I scoured the reserve website and did not see anything for this)?  If you do not have an account and want to contact me please send me an e-mail to: stefanslaght <at> gmail.com.  Short of activation by the US Military I do not see my school allowing me time off to go help with efforts.  Heh I can be ready to go in as little as a day if they need the manpower (I just need a haircut, shave, and to pack a couple clothes). 

[Llava]

Sandra Smith of Baton Rouge walked through the parking lot with a 12-pack of Bud Light under each arm. “I came down here to get my daughters,” she said, “but I can’t find them.”

So the Bud Light is what... bait?  Couldn't help but smirk at that.  (Though I'm assuming from the way it was phrased that her daughters are fine, they just went to get supplies and she came to get them.  If they're actually legitimately missing... not so funny.)  Seriously, Bud Light the most nutrionally valuable thing she could've grabbed?

ironically the Pirate Ship one is still there

Lighthearted joke, so I use humor to deal with this kinda stuff, ignore it or join me:  Oh come on.  Who didn't expect the pirates to make it through this?  Do you see any ninjas still standing?  No.  I think we know who's superior.

[Cheddar]

Lighthearted joke, so I use humor to deal with this kinda stuff, ignore it or join me:  Oh come on.  Who didn't expect the pirates to make it through this?  Do you see any ninjas still standing?  No.  I think we know who's superior.

I was thinking the same thing.  Beyond the loss of human life I honestly could care less about Biloxi.  I just hope no one was hurt, and that everything there is gone.  It was perhaps the worst city I have ever been to.  Seriously, it made the Middle East seem like one big beach party.

[Llava]

Oh, almost forgot to mentioned- I heard on the radio today that they're trying to ship some inmates to other counties and use the prison guards as peacekeepers in the streets.  Those riots... probably not helping.  It's just one constant stream of shit being propelled into this fan.

[Cheddar]

Oh, almost forgot to mentioned- I heard on the radio today that they're trying to ship some inmates to other counties and use the prison guards as peacekeepers in the streets.  Those riots... probably not helping.  It's just one constant stream of shit being propelled into this fan.

There were reports of some people firing AK-47s at a police station.  I am sure that was dramatized though; probably some people drunk off their free booze taking potshots at the station with .22's.  One Officer did get shot in the head though. 

[Righ]

I think all these micro-stories of individual tragedies are somewhat of a distraction. I awoke today to see an annihilated city, and was somewhat shocked when they finally decided that they had to abandon the city this evening. The water was rising a couple of feet per hour during the day, the levees were broken and the punmping stations offline. There should have been no pretense that the situation could be remedied. From what I heard, nearly every country has already offered support. I don't think our authorities really have any idea of what we are dealing with yet, nor would I expect them to. It's hard to accept international aid when the immediate situation is beyond reasonable control.

There are over 1,000,000 homeless people in the region. Life is not going to go back to normal. Every one of them has to begin to build a new normal moving forward. We cant get back the dead, nor can we get back most of what is lost in New Orleans. What replaces it can carry the spirit of both, but it will be the work of today and tomorrow. It's truly shocking.

[Llava]

I'm just going to preface all my jokes with this so people don't get bothered or thinking that I'm not taking the situation seriously.

Humor is how I deal with stuff like this, ignore it or join me-
According to their Senator, they "absolutely" plan to rebuild.  Think they'll call it "New New Orleans"?

[Evangolis]

I watched Nightline tonight.  I'm going to stop following this, it is just too damn depressing.  As one reporter said, this disaster is too big for TV to do justice to.  The elected officials of Louisiana look like they are going to need PTSD treatment; glassy stares all around.

Much of the worst damage on the Mississippi coast seems to be from barges carrying goods that came inland on the storm surge and crushed houses.  A lot of the shots showed the barges and their cargo lying inland with nothing between them and the ocean but bare foundations.  The Pirate Ship casino is aground at the ocean's edge, looking very creepy.

On the ecological issues, there have been warnings for years that beachfront building and wetlands destruction would lead to this sort of result in the Mississippi Delta area.  I feel for the people caught up in this horror, but that doesn't excuse the decades of bad public policy that have contributed to what is clearly a catastrophe of stunning magnitude.

There is a lot of confusion about conditions in New Orleans.  There was footage of the evacuated prisoners sitting on an on ramp with armed gaurds around them, but reports about hostages were unconfirmed, and the pictures I saw looked like things were under control.  Nobody is sure what is really going on down there.

It will likely be months to get the levees repaired and the city drained.  At this point, an entire city is homeless and unemployed.

Predictions are for several more hurricanes before the end of the season.

[Righ]

Who didn't expect the pirates to make it through this?  Do you see any ninjas still standing?  No.  I think we know who's superior.

Of course you don't see any ninjas. Until they sneak up behind the pirates and kick them in the jimmy.

[Strazos]

I find it slightly odd that nothing was done about the levees years ago. They were made of simple earth....If I remember correctly, earthen walls can be washed away fairly easily.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if money had been pumped into countermeasures for such flooding, the damages, and particularly the flooding, could have been reduced signifigantly.

It works for London and the Thames, and for Venice.

[Hanzii]

  I've looked through quite a lot of news stories and have yet to see any other nations offering any aid. Odd that.

 And I do hope a good number of those looters are shot.

First things first.
My thoughts went out to Haem and SPT (and all those people I don't know). I'm glad they're o.k. and that the death toll was so low - be happy that your nation is so organized that it's possible to evacuate a city the size of NO. Had this been India, the death toll would have been counted in thousands.

No other nations offering help?
WTF. You're the richest nation in the world. You could rebuild NO from scratch with one years worth of military spending. More than 16.000 kids die DAILY from starvation in the world, and yet you want me to open my wallet, because you had a bit of bother with a storm?!

When that it said, I'm sad for those who have lost everything. For the lives lost and the people that will suffer from this in a long time to come. I live in a rich country blessed by having no extreme weather of any kind at all. I will help those less fortunate... but that list is long and NO isn't on top of it.
I'm not making light of 1.000.000 homeless - it's absolutely horrible and I'm sad for them. But your nation has the capacity to help and if TheWalrus isn't first in line to volunteer his time to the effort, then I hope he'll kindly shut up.

It works for London and the Thames, and for Venice.

I'm sure money is an issue and more could be done. That's how cost/benefit works and your country is great at saving on these things - but the cities you mention doesn't have the kind of weather that the US suffers from occasionally. Read up on geography before you compare apples and oranges.

[Strazos]

I always found it odd that the US is ALWAYS there to help out any other nation on the planet when something bad happens, but I never hear of anyone returning the favor. I never understood the obligation, especially when people are extremely jealous of the US economy. Frankly, I never understood That either; One thing I learned while overseas is that, regardless of what other people say, I don't see people in the US being any better than people in western Europe - Life in the US is not all its cracked up to be.

[stray]

Funny that you mention Venice, because they're on pretty shaky ground themselves. It's only a matter of time before that city is gone too.

[Strazos]

Saw a documentary at some point on the subject. Apparently, they're constructing gigantic man-made jetties to, basically, redirect the ocean tides/currents. I don't have a link.

[Hanzii]

I always found it odd that the US is ALWAYS there to help out any other nation on the planet when something bad happens, but I never hear of anyone returning the favor. I never understood the obligation, especially when people are extremely jealous of the US economy. Frankly, I never understood That either; One thing I learned while overseas is that, regardless of what other people say, I don't see people in the US being any better than people in western Europe - Life in the US is not all its cracked up to be.

That's just plain stupid, but explaining it to you would turn this into a political thread (which I didn't start), so I won't. This isn't the right time to be called a cockmunching douchebag by Haem... did I mention, that I was happy, he's allright?

[Rasix]

Yep. Lets not let what happened to London train bombing thread happen here. K?  If you have burning urge to take this off in a tangental direction, the politics forum awaits. 

Stay classy. 

[Lemming]

It sucks to see my home destroyed and submerged, but at least I'm not in it.  Good luck to anyone on the gulf coast struggling through this.  It's going to be a long time before we get things are back to normal.

P.S. - Looters need to die a very slow, very painful death.

[stray]

It sucks to see my home destroyed and submerged, but at least I'm not in it.  Good luck to anyone on the gulf coast struggling through this.  It's going to be a long time before we get things are back to normal.

P.S. - Looters need to die a very slow, very painful death.

Are you saying that you're a victim? A damn shame, if so.

What city do you live in?

[Kenrick]

I've now heard that the prison riot/break/hostage thing was a completely false rumor.   

[stray]

Depending on where you heard it from, that could just be a false rumor too. 

Links?

[Merusk]

They rebuilt Galviston after 2 of the deadliest Hurricanes ever within the span of 15 years, (including THE deadliest) they'll rebuild New Orleans.  The French Quarter remains relativly untouched, it's just the newer construction that's gone under.  New codes & such addressing what we learn from this won't be implemented for approx 5 years, given the red tape it takes to get such things through code committees.

As for using something 'more permanent' than just dirt for levees, it's REALLLY costly to build something like that.  On top of that, it's a lot harder to maintain since you have to do regular inspections to make sure the foundations aren't being washed out, unless you go down to bedrock and build from there.  It takes a whole lot of water to get dirt to the point it liquifies and washes away, and this was more severe than anything that was expected or planned for at the time most of these building were built.

Hell, even modern code doesn't completly cover a Cat 5 (yeah it was a 4, I'm making a point).. it's almost a given that you'll lose anything not a solid structure (i.e. houses, small hotels, small commercial structures) because of the forces involved. Lots of codes were tightened after Andrew in '92, but that's not a lot of structures, and not all places adopted those changes due to increased cost.

That's why there's MANDATORY evacuations and you just need to adhere to them.  One thing I haven't heard is do counties even help people evacuate after they annoucne a mandatory evac?  Does the local media give as much coverage about how to get help getting the hell out as they do to the old 'reporter in the storm'?