Heh. Yes, it's a fitness thread in a gaming forum.

[voodoolily]

So I started going to kickboxing and pilates at my friendly neighborhood Indonesian martial arts studio. Having been nearly completely sedentary for the last two months, and marginally so for the last 5 years, needless to say my body is in pain. Today it's mostly my trapezius/upper obliques/pecs and delts, but last week it was the external obliques/rectus abdominus and ankles. The workouts are difficult in their own right, not just because I'm out of shape.

My question for those of you who actually get off your lazy asses once in awhile: should I just keep toughing it out? I've been trying to go every day (except weekends), but I don't know if it's better to just grit my teeth through the pain or if I should be giving my muscles a rest in between workouts. My goals are strength and fitness, with increased energy (my weight loss goal is <10 pounds, so I don't care how fast I get results in that regard). I don't feel like sifting through a bunch of bullshit fitness sites laden with TrimSpa ads. Discuss? Thanks.

[HaemishM]

Tough it out (or if you were a man, nut it up). It gets better. The first month of taking Hapkido, I was one constant rolling bruise of muscle pain. My teacher suggested soaking in a warm bath immediately after the class, which helped me get to sleep that night. Also, Ben Gay is good, or Tiger Balm if you need the strong stuff. Just don't put the balm on immediately after getting out of the bath. BURN CITY.

Once your body gets used to the work, you'll be fine.

[stray]

/agreed

In no time you won't even have to "tough it out". It'll start feeling good to you, and you'll want to do it. And btw, is your teacher teaching stretching and breathing techniques before everything else gets rolling? If not, then I suggest you leave and find someone else.

[Sairon]

Be sure to eat properly if you're working out that much.

[Merusk]

Yes, tough it out.  When I was in High School the first two weeks of swimming conditioning were the worst.  We'd go at max 1500 yards in the first few days and ramp-up from there.  Those first two weeks were pure HELL.  Even though I was part of a summer league as well as the winter school league the 3 months inbetween was just enough to make getting back into shape a nightmare. Sore muscles and joints and a want to just flop-down into bed at the end of the night.  

By Christmas-time practices (mid-season) we were doing 1500 yard warm-ups and about 10k+ yards in an hour and a half long practice.  It's all about getting your body back into shape and re-building your energy levels until it can take all the activity again.

[voodoolily]

Thanks, guys. Yeah, I used to swim competitively when I was in high school, but since I'd always been such an active, fit kid, it never was that big a deal to train that hard. But as aforementioned, it's been years. I have good muscles, but they're under a layer of girl-cush and aren't as strong as they used to be. When I was a screen-printer for a year in a rickety old-school sweat shop, I could actually beat about half the guys I knew arm-wrestling, without looking freakish or huge. That's all I want again. I want my physique to match the ferocity I feel in my heart.

While I was waiting for replies to my post, I went outside and mowed my front yard with the old-fashioned push mower we have, and it didn't hurt as badly to use those muscles as it does to stretch them. So I guess I'll hafta go to class tonight.

I've scaled down my caloric intake by around 25% (I think) by switching to more lean protein and veggie-heavy dishes (instead of gooey, cheesy sausagey goodness) and lunch of lean protein and carbs. I used to skip lunch, but I can't do that anymore. My main problem is that I don't drink enough water.

[stray]

Drink it...Fucking good stuff, that is 

I had that same problem too for awhile, but it just isn't wise to go without making it your main drink. Hell, even without excercise or switching to an entirely different diet, water on it's own can work wonders.

[voodoolily]

/agreed

In no time you won't even have to "tough it out". It'll start feeling good to you, and you'll want to do it. And btw, is your teacher teaching stretching and breathing techniques before everything else gets rolling? If not, then I suggest you leave and find someone else.

Yeah, the first half of class (depending on the teacher) is getting warmed up and breathing, throwing punches, doing lunges, crunches, etc., the second half is training with bags/pads, and the last 15 minutes is stretching. I'm doing pilates twice a week to improve my flexibility and to strengthen my core muscles, and to elongate my muscles - I went to yoga once and it was WAY too boring. It was the pilates yesterday that has me hurting today. The teachers have all been very accessible with my questions, addressing my goals and concerns, etc. They all pretty much say it's more important to just keep up at my own pace and I can work on my technique later (or it will simply come with time). I had huge bruises on the balls of my feet for the first week!  

I drink a shitton of water (for me) during the workout and after, but day-to-day I usually stick to caffiene/alcohol. One goal at a time, I guess.

[Llava]

last week it was the external obliques/rectus abdominus

Rectus?

Darn near killed us!

 

[stray]

They all pretty much say it's more important to just keep up at my own pace and I can work on my technique later (or it will simply come with time). I had huge bruises on the balls of my feet for the first week!  

Sounds cool then. I was just making sure it wasn't Rex Kwan Do or something.   If they're interested in your conditioning more than your skills, then you've found the right place.

As for water: When was the last time that you really felt like you had a good night's rest? Try going without caffiene for a week, and just see if you can tell the difference. For experimentation's sake  . I swear, a steady amount of water changes everything really. It's not too big of a goal either....Quitting smoking: Now there's a goal (and if you've cut that off as well, then you're better than me).

[voodoolily]

As for water: When was the last time that you really felt like you had a good night's rest? Try going without caffiene for a week, and just see if you can tell the difference. For experimentation's sake  . I swear, a steady amount of water changes everything really. It's not too big of a goal either....Quitting smoking: Now there's a goal (and if you've cut that off as well, then you're better than me).

I sleep like a stone every night and 99% of the time wake up in a good mood. It's only been the last week where it's a little harder to get moving in the morning from soreness, but that's why I go to the morning pilates class and the evening KB classes. I've cut out my afternoon triple lattes, mainly for the calories but it hasn't hurt me at all. I only usually drink ~16 oz. of coffee a day anyway. And I've started making iced green tea to drink when I'm thirsty instead of juice or soda. When I make decaf green tea it's pretty much the same as water, and I still get the antioxidants.

As for smoking, just remember: active smokers are still healthier than sedentary non-smokers!

[MrHat]

Why the sudden health nut Voodoo?

[Nebu]

My 2 cents:

1) Most people overdo it the first 2-3 weeks.  This is the cause of the pain.  Easing into a workout plan is always best, but it's tough to overcome the Gung-ho attidtude when you start something fresh.  The pain will subside in a few days and working through it is fine.  My only advice is to listen to your body.  Overtraining can cause almost as much damage as being sedentary.

2) Eat 5 or 6 lean small meals a day.  Breakfast is a must.  This keeps your body burning fuel all day and will decrease the pain you're feeling.  When I'm training I usually have a balanced breakfast/lunch/dinner with a protein shake between meals.  A meal for me is a carb, a veg, and a protein with a serving of each being about the size of your fist.  If you stick with whole grains and low fat proteins, you will be golden without having to count calories.

3) Water is your friend.  Most problems people have while training are partially the result of dehydration.  Joint soreness can also be a result.  Drinking water also will decrease hunger as hunger pangs are often the result of not having enough water.

4) Nutrients/Suppliments. I'm not a suppliment junky, but there are a few that I stick with.  a) My diet is great but I still take a multi vitamin daily just_in_case.  b) Calcium is huge.  The role that calcium plays is very important and being short will really get in the way of your progress.  c) I also take an extra vitamin E.  This may be more habit than anything, but the literature on its antioxidant properties seems sound.  With increased aerobic activity, it can't hurt.
 
That's the short version from a guy that has been an athlete/fitness junky for life.  

[Paelos]

I do an hour long workout involving small cardio and high rep weights twice a week. I also eat only whole grains and avoid sugar and white flour. I don't worry about fats. I don't worry about meat or cheeses. I don't worry about fruits. I avoid potatoes in large quantities.

Doing this for a month and a half I'm down 15 pounds, doubled my strength, and I can drive a golf ball 30 yards farther. YEAH!

[Hanzii]

I drink a shitton of water (for me) during the workout and after, but day-to-day I usually stick to caffiene/alcohol. One goal at a time, I guess.

Depends on what your problem is.
Of course both caffiene and alcohol has their side effects - but they don't dehydrate you (well alcohol does, if you get intoxicated). As long as yopu listen to your body and drink when you're thirsty, it doesn't have to be pure water by any means. 99,9% of the population gets clear signals from the body nd knows when to drink - recent findings have shown that old people drinking 2-3 litres of water daily (because a lot of books/magazines claim we need that) even when they aren't feeling thirsty, are actually destroying their kidneys. Of course you will get thirstier while working out and should drink accordingly.

Alcohol is good for you - but has not so good side effect. Caffeine isn't needed for anything in your body, how bad it is for you isn't really clear - how important the staying away/staying fresh benefit is, only you know.

[Nebu]

Depends on what your problem is.
Of course both caffiene and alcohol has their side effects - but they don't dehydrate you (well alcohol does, if you get intoxicated). As long as yopu listen to your body and drink when you're thirsty, it doesn't have to be pure water by any means. 99,9% of the population gets clear signals from the body nd knows when to drink - recent findings have shown that old people drinking 2-3 litres of water daily (because a lot of books/magazines claim we need that) even when they aren't feeling thirsty, are actually destroying their kidneys. Of course you will get thirstier while working out and should drink accordingly.

Alcohol is good for you - but has not so good side effect. Caffeine isn't needed for anything in your body, how bad it is for you isn't really clear - how important the staying away/staying fresh benefit is, only you know.

Well...

1. While quite possibly one of the most perfect stimulants on the planet, caffeine is a diuretic. This being the case, drinking caffeinated beverages will increase your need for water. 

2. Drinking 2-3 liters of water daily will not destroy the kidneys of a normally functioning individual.  Our kidneys naturally decrease in function with age, but drinking that volume of water really shows little to no ill effect (at least according to all of the nephrologists I know). If you have the reference for your statement to the contrary, please PM it to me.

3. Alcohol causes dehydration that varies in degree to the amount consumed.  A glass of wine an evening can be very beneficial (mostly because of the resveratrol from the skin of the grape, but that's another story), while larger quantities can be quite harmful.  Common sense dictates a great deal here.

My bottom line is that people can do well with most things (fat, alcohol, caffeine) when they are taken in moderation.  The problem with most Americans is that they seem to like to do things to great excess. Oddly this goes as much for McDonald's as it does for exercise. 


 

[Viin]

You might consider taking a supplement called 'Sport' from Mannatech, which increases oxygen flow to your muscles. This helps them relax and will help prevent you from getting cramps. It's also good thing to take before/after every workout even once you are back into shape, as it helps your muscles mend after a workout.

Can be a little hard to find sometimes, but searching around you should be able to find a reseller of it.

[Margalis]

One of the most important things to avoid soreness is a proper cooldown. It's good to stretch again after a workout, and after a workout you should still be moving around for a bit. If you just flop down onto a bed or into a car or something it's much worse. Also, stretching after a workout makes the workout itself much more effective.

[Hanzii]

1. While quite possibly one of the most perfect stimulants on the planet, caffeine is a diuretic. This being the case, drinking caffeinated beverages will increase your need for water. 

Yeah, but coffee/tea/coke/whatever is also a beverage, so you gain more than you loose.

http://www.uconn.edu/newsmedia/2005/june05/rel05051.html

http://www.snopes.com/toxins/water.htm

http://www4.nationalacademies.org/news.nsf/isbn/s0309091691?OpenDocument

2. Drinking 2-3 liters of water daily will not destroy the kidneys of a normally functioning individual.  Our kidneys naturally decrease in function with age, but drinking that volume of water really shows little to no ill effect (at least according to all of the nephrologists I know). If you have the reference for your statement to the contrary, please PM it to me.

Firstly I don't post on a message board to engage in discussions by PM.
I didn't say normally functioning, I said the elderly. The paper I referred to said that elderly drinking more water than their thirst dictated were actually damaging their kidneys. I can't link to it for you, because the paper apparently isn't online and while Google does show results, none are primary sources.
But the point was (as stated in the Snopes link above), that you don't need to drink a certain amount of pure water every day. You need 2 to 3,5 litres a day depending on what you're doing and heat, but normal people get that from food and almost any beverage. And the your body will warn you.

So caffeine and alcohol is perfectly fine - in moderation.

[Nebu]

Firstly I don't post on a message board to engage in discussions by PM.

I'm a scientist and am genuinely interested.  I asked for you to PM the citation as most people could give a shit.  I don't care to debate you in PM's, I teach this stuff for a living. If you can find a primary reference for that study, I'd be interested.  I have access to any major medical journal, so all I'd need is the journal, year, volume, and the page numbers.

I didn't say normally functioning, I said the elderly. The paper I referred to said that elderly drinking more water than their thirst dictated were actually damaging their kidneys. I can't link to it for you, because the paper apparently isn't online and while Google does show results, none are primary sources.
So caffeine and alcohol is perfectly fine - in moderation.

The elderly can and often DO have normally functioning kidneys.  It's just not "normal" for a 20 year old.  I have conducted enought RFT's in my life and we call a certain output and creatine clearance "normal" even when it's for an 85 year old.  It's just adjusted.

Thanks for the links though.

[Merusk]

Just a quick post in support of Hanzii and the 'overdrinking of water' angle.  It was a fairly recent study/ paper and  I heard about it on NPR sometime in the last month, which is when it was issued.  That'd be why it isn't online/ available in Google or common knowledge yet.  IIRC they spoke about it not only stressing kidneys, but some folks were running the risk of flushing more minerals out of their system than they should.  Since it's not my field of study I didn't pay more than a passing ear to it, but there's someplace you can start to look.

[Nebu]

I agree about overdrinking causing trouble, I've just never heard of 2L being considered excessive.  Even in the elderly... except perhaps in cases of renal damage or failure. 

FWIW, I wasn't trying to start a debate.  I was just trying to help. 

[Shockeye]

FWIW, I wasn't trying to start a debate.  I was just trying to help. 

Famous last words...

[eldaec]

If you're working out every day, and especially not just doing cardio/weight-loss you should get professional advice about your whole program; firstly because you don't want to be wasting your time doing it in an ineffective manner, and secondly because you are supposed to rest muscle groups if you've been trying to tone. And definitely take advice before thinking about supplements beyond the odd multi-vitamin.

Do tough it out though - it is worth it.

Good luck :) .

[Trippy]

My question for those of you who actually get off your lazy asses once in awhile: should I just keep toughing it out? I've been trying to go every day (except weekends), but I don't know if it's better to just grit my teeth through the pain or if I should be giving my muscles a rest in between workouts. My goals are strength and fitness, with increased energy (my weight loss goal is <10 pounds, so I don't care how fast I get results in that regard). I don't feel like sifting through a bunch of bullshit fitness sites laden with TrimSpa ads. Discuss? Thanks.

I would recommend some rest between workouts to give your muscles and body a chance to recover until they get used to the routine. If you don't want to do that try and alternate major muscle groups each day. For weightlifters the standard routine is to do upper body one day and lower body the next and you could try something similar -- e.g. punches one day and kicking the next. And even though it's painful don't neglect the streteching of your sore muscles. As your muscles rebuild themselves to be stronger the fibers will tend to shorten and you'll lose flexibility and range of motion unless you keep stretching them. Don't overdue it though or you might tear something.

[Samprimary]

FWIW, I wasn't trying to start a debate.  I was just trying to help. 

NO YOU AREN'T, QED, I WIN, DISCUSS


In all seriousness, though, I need to start a regular routine for muscle tone. The only problem is that my work (drywall) often beats me up too much, and then I avoid workouts to keep me from having to work while sore, and I don't ever get in more than one or two good workout days a month on account of this. Maybe I want some of that oxygenating stuff.

[Jimbo]

I work as a RN in an emergency department.  Our older generation is on average, under hydrated.  Look, drink enough water till you pee clear and you won't have a problem.  And hell, I learned that at age 18 in Army Boot Camp.

8 cups of water (8 oz---64 oz total) or 2 liters is just an average.  The little old lady who is 90 lbs soaking wet may not need 2 liters a day.  She may need it anyway.

And yes too much water can lead to over-hydration, or water-intoxication.  We had one psycho that came in that we had to tie up and disconnect all the water in his room.  All the water, even the toilet, sink, and shower.  Sure it was a cheap drunk for him, but he ended up tied to the bed with a Foley catheter and special IV's.


Don't be scared to drink water during your work out if you can.  Most of the biker's (both road and mountain) use a camelback or something like it, to keep the cool water coming in; it really helps if you are riding for 1 hour or more.  Heck I see most grunts going into battle now have one...wish I had one back in my days....


Thank God for a spell checker...

[Murgos]

FWIW, I wasn't trying to start a debate.  I was just trying to help. 

NO YOU AREN'T, QED, I WIN, DISCUSS


In all seriousness, though, I need to start a regular routine for muscle tone. The only problem is that my work (drywall) often beats me up too much, and then I avoid workouts to keep me from having to work while sore, and I don't ever get in more than one or two good workout days a month on account of this. Maybe I want some of that oxygenating stuff.

Drink beer while you work out.  It used to be fairly common practice.

[Strazos]

Exercise, boo...

I guess I was blessed with high metabolism and good genetics. I've been more-or-less sedentary for about 4 years, but I haven't gone above about 145 lbs. Unfortunately, any and all fat I have goes straight to the gut. =/

I would like to work out more, I really would. I have a full gym at my disposal in my house...

I just find the entire venture painfully boring. I even tried "working out" years ago....and after seeing zero results after a month, I stopped.


Though it would be nice if I could get down into the 130's.

[Merusk]

Exercise, boo...

I guess I was blessed with high metabolism and good genetics. I've been more-or-less sedentary for about 4 years, but I haven't gone above about 145 lbs. Unfortunately, any and all fat I have goes straight to the gut. =/

I would like to work out more, I really would. I have a full gym at my disposal in my house...

I just find the entire venture painfully boring. I even tried "working out" years ago....and after seeing zero results after a month, I stopped.


Though it would be nice if I could get down into the 130's.

"Years ago"   So what, when you were 14? Big surprise on the whole no-improvement thing there then.  :-D  Not all folks "bulk-up" at the same age.  It didn't start on me until I was 18-19 and out of H.S. for about a year already.  Before that it was all lean muscle with just my natural frame giving me any size.

You're young yet.. unless your parents look like Haemish you'll be catching-up with us 'fatty' old people soon enough.

[Strazos]

More like 16, thanks.

And anyway, there is no such thing as "fat people" in my family.

[stray]

More like 16, thanks.

And anyway, there is no such thing as "fat people" in my family.

Seriously man...If you don't move around a bit more, maybe you won't get fat -- but you'll probably have a body like Mr. Burns.

[Avatard]

Cut down on the beer and cut out the heaters and go for a walk once in awhile.

[Paelos]

Cut down on the beer and cut out the heaters and go for a walk once in awhile.

I suggest drinking wine in place of beer, especially red wine. Obviously not a bottle a day or anything, but 1-2 glasses does have health benefits and makes a good dinner drink.

[jinxer]

Trippy has the right idea, Voodoolily.   I've been working out at the gym for about 2 years and had a personal trainer during the first year, until I knew exactly what to do/not to do.

You should definitely give your body some recovery time if you've been really inactive for a period of years.  I started off going to the gym every other day and rotating upper and lower body routines, like Trippy said, making sure to stretch the sore muscled a lot the next day on the off days.  After a few weeks of conditioning you can feel free to move up the intensity of your workouts and go as often as you want.  Just be sure to listen to your body.  If you try a new exercise and for some reason a certain part of your body is more sore than normal or for a longer period of time, just let it have a little more rest time and move onto a different body part until it feels better. 

It's very easy to over do it and hurt yourself.  I did it to myself a few times, pulled something in my shoulder twice, hamstrings once, and amazingly enough, gave myself a small esophogial hernia from these hanging ab thingies I did too many of on the first go round.