Ravnica speculation/rumour

[eldaec]

Some common rumours/leaks floating around magic forums at the moment....

The 10 'guild symbols' will act as new mana symbols. Each one represents a colour pair, and guild symbol mana requirements can be paid with *either* of the underlying colours.

Remember this?



Across the top...

The flaming fist icon is red/white.
The tree thing is white/green
The insect is black/green
The ring is red/blue

A cost of (ring) would mean you pay either 1 red mana or 1 blue mana.

One way these are used is illustrated by the following leaked cycle of 4 'guildmages' in Ravnica...

"Candelabra Bush" Guildmage (w/g)(w/g)
Creature - Elf Wizard
(?)W: ?
(?)G: ?
2/2

"Flaming Fist" Guildmage (r/w)(r/w)
Creature - Human Wizard
R: Target creature gains haste until end of turn.
W: Target creature gains first strike until end of turn.
2/2

"Insect" Guildmage (b/g)(b/g)
Creature - Elf? Wizard?
(?)B, Sacrifice a creature: Put target creature card from your graveyard into your hand.
(?)G: Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
2/2

"Ring" Guildmage (u/b)(u/b)
Creature - Human? Wizard?
(?)U: Draw a card.
(?)B: Target player discards a card. (Play this ability only any time you could play a sorcery.?)
2/2


The fact these match the 4 symbols across the top of the Rav logo adds weight to the theory that Rav will feature the first 4 colour pairs, Guildpact the next 3, and Dissension the final 3.

Talking of Dissension, the second part of the block has already been announced - and is called 'guild pact'. the third part's name has leaked courtesy of the image below...

Ravnica will contain a myriad of race creature types including lots of humans, elves, goblins, and so on. Then there are the less abundant creature types like zombies, wurms, insects, angels, etc. There'll also be plenty of less common races from previous blocks which wouldn't normally be seen except on the world they came from. An example is... loxodons! There are tons of "occupation" creature types too, like soldier, wizard, cleric, and so forth. The overall flavour is one of true fantasy (mirage style) mixed with political intrigue (masques style), in a very gold invasion-like environment, with Urza's-level card power.

This quote is up on mtgsalvation here. Note the last 5 words.


Ravnica will include a new cycle of 10 dual colour lands, these are expected to be an alternative form of pain land, instead of paying 1 life each time you need coloured mana, you pay 3 life up front as the card comes into play, from then it's free access to both colours, something like...

Caves of kicking-ass-in-Ravnica
When Caves of kicking-ass-in-Ravnica comes into play its controller may lose 3 life. If he or she does, then Caves of kicking-ass-in-Ravnica has T: Add W or B to your mana pool
T: Add (1) to your mana pool

[Johny Cee]

Thanks for the info.  I don't normally check MTGsalvation, but might have to add it to the list of "occassionally browse."

Took part in a 9th cardboard release event last Sunday.  Damn, this set is fun.

Everyone got 5 boosters to make a deck out of.

My deck was solid, but no bombs.

B/G/U:

Magpie
Some blue fliers
Puppeteer (tap/untap ability)
A couple of beefy critters
Beast of Burden (MVP)
Slay, Execute, and Darkbanishing
<RECLAIM>
Yavimaya Coast (U/G painland)
Some assorted other cards


Overall a solid deck, but nothing game breaking.  Went 3 and 2,  and my two losses were complete crap.  Lots of Painlands got dished out,  and really helps playing multiple colors in draft.

Lost to a Serra Angel/Marble Titan combo,  that was nuts.

[schild]

Quote from: some guy - apparently a source at wizardsRavnica will contain a myriad of race creature types including lots of humans, elves, goblins, and so on. Then there are the less abundant creature types like zombies, wurms, insects, angels, etc. There'll also be plenty of less common races from previous blocks which wouldn't normally be seen except on the world they came from. An example is... loxodons! There are tons of "occupation" creature types too, like soldier, wizard, cleric, and so forth. The overall flavour is one of true fantasy (mirage style) mixed with political intrigue (masques style), in a very gold invasion-like environment, with Urza's-level card power.

So I was right. I love me some me.

[Johny Cee]

Quote from: some guy - apparently a source at wizardsRavnica will contain a myriad of race creature types including lots of humans, elves, goblins, and so on. Then there are the less abundant creature types like zombies, wurms, insects, angels, etc. There'll also be plenty of less common races from previous blocks which wouldn't normally be seen except on the world they came from. An example is... loxodons! There are tons of "occupation" creature types too, like soldier, wizard, cleric, and so forth. The overall flavour is one of true fantasy (mirage style) mixed with political intrigue (masques style), in a very gold invasion-like environment, with Urza's-level card power.

So I was right. I love me some me.

Schild is already beginning his psychological warfare in preparation for the F13 9th draft......

[schild]

Yes.


















Bitches.

[eldaec]

This is an example of the mana symbols they are planning to use on Rav. As above each means one of either one colour or the other.

Also, cards using 'or' mana will not be gold. They will use the fade colouring seen on recent dual lands....

[Raging Turtle]

Miss your dual lands, do you?




Look at that once or twice.  Admire the art.  Think of how lovely it would be as a foil.  Then read it again to check the land types. 

At least for extended, these are strictly better than the Invasion painlands, because they can be fetched with, um, the fetchlands. 
Crazy.  After already getting ALL the painlands in 9th, I never expected something as powerful as this, and so soon.

There are a few more cards up in the spoiler at Mtgsalvation.  In the interest of my wallet, I'm kind of hoping this set isn't as good as its looking so far.

[Xilren's Twin]

Holy crap, those are going to be great!

I like the one time 2 dam payment, not too stiff but non trivial (10% life off if you want to use it NOW).

Xilren

[Johny Cee]

Ooooooooo.  Wizards did good.

A two life loss when it comes into play is minor compared to the continuing costs of painlands/city of brass.  And coming into play tapped isn't too much of a drawback.  The "tap" lands (produces 2 different colors of mana,  but comes into play tapped) saw a decent amount of play when you still had "fetch" lands (sac it and take 1 damage, go get your choice of 2 basic land types).  The only reason no one plays with tap lands now is that there is no other mana fixing.  Pretty much, if you run more than one color you're running green and using Tribe Elder, Kodama's Reach, and Birds to filter/mana fix.

I wouldn't ever want to run a full deck of the new duals like you could with the old ones,  but it makes two or three color decks very easy to put together.

Landwalking creatures might even make a comeback if you can now count on alot of opponents running multiple land types.

[Jain Zar]

I run a 3 color Kamigawa deck online right now with no duals whatsoever.  And I tend to win or at least put up a good fight most of the time.

Of course, no card in my deck requires more than 1 of any single color to play...

[Margalis]

I think people are starting to sour on Kodama's Reach a bit. One of the best thing about Tribe Elder is that it can chump block for a turn. That may not sound like much, but if you look at a typical T&N deck, it's pretty much all chump blockers until the big boys hit. Tribe Elder, maybe some brids, Eternal Witness, etc. That's 3 or 4 turns of chump blocking to slow down aggro decks.

I've noticed some of the more recent decks are leaving out Reach. Not that Reach is bad, but for a while it was in almost every deck.

[Johny Cee]

Couple things:

@Jain Zar --

The history of competitive standard since fetch lands rotated has been almost completely monocolored,  unless green is used to mana fix.  Beacon green (mono-green), Tooth (green/urza lands), MUC (blue), Blue Wake/Blue Urzatron, White Weenie, Mono Red Control, etc.

The Gifts Ungiven decks/"5 Color Green", Blue/Green Control, White/Green Slide, and Ravager are the major exceptions.  Ravager had arty lands and glimmervoid to mana fix.  Gifts decks and U/G Control had green mana fixing.  Green mana fixing is generally a combo of Elder, Reach, and Birds.

There has been very limited use of multi-colored decks outside these.

Before Onslaught's rotation,  fetch lands and tap lands along with City of Brass allowed enough mana fixing to play a couple non green colors together.  Blue-White Control, the classic Red/White Astral Slide decks, Goblin Bidding, etc.

I played a fair amount of Goblin Bidding cardboard style.  Even with Bloodstained Marsh, City of Brass, and approx. 7 swamps it wasn't out of the ordinary to get mana screwed and not be able to cast Patriarch's Bidding (BB3 win condition) until mid or late game.


@Margalis:

Kodama's Reach is good,  but situational.  Elder is strictly better, and fits a better position in the mana curve generally.

Reach is one of the go tos when you want to build a multi-color deck.  The ability to fetch two land is pretty huge.  5 Color Green will run about 12 or 14 green sources, insuring they can cast Elder/Reach/Birds, and 1 or 2 each of the other lands.

Reap & Sow and Sylvan Scrying are strictly better in Tooth.  Reap & Sow has the additional benefit of land destruction if it's needed.

And between Diving Top and land accel,  most Tooth decks I run into seem to have Urzatron complete on turn 4 or 5.  :-(

[schild]

Oooooh. Shiny. :-D

[eldaec]

Conclave Equenaut - 4WW
Creature - Human Soldier (C)
Convoke (Each creature you tap while playing this spell reduces its cost by 1 or by one mana of that creature's color.)
Flying
3/3

Carrion Howler - 3B
Creature - Zombie Wolf (U)
Pay 1 life: Carrion Howler gets +2/-1 until end of turn.
2/2


Centaur Safeguard - 2(G/W)
Creature - Centaur Warrior (C)
(G/W can be paid with G or W)
When Centaur Safeguard is put into a graveyard from play, target player gains 3 life.
3/1

Surge of Zeal - R
Instant (C)
Radiance - Target creature and each other creature that shares a color with it gain haste until end of turn.


Some Lizardman R
Creature - Lizard Warrior (my guess)
Defender
Sacrifice 3 Mountains: This~ loses defender until end of turn.
3/2

Firey Conclusion 1R
Instant
As an additional cost to play ~this~, sacrifice a creature.
~this~ deals 5 damage to target creature.

Muddle up the Mix UU
Instant
Counter target spell unless.... (Unknown besides it's a conditional counterspell)
Transmute 1UU (1UU, Discard this card: Search your library for a card with converted mana cost equal to this card's, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library. Play this ability only any time you could play a sorcery.)

$$$$ Imp 2B
Creature - Imp   
Flying
Whenever $$$$ Imp deals combat damage to a creature, destroy that creature.
Dredge 5 (If you would draw a card, you may put the top five cards of your library into your graveyard instead. If you do, return $$$$ Imp from your graveyard to your hand.)
1/2

Master Warcraft 2(R/W)(R/W)
Instant   
( (R/W) can be paid with either R or W)
Play Master Warcraft only before attackers are declared.
You choose which creatures attack this turn. You choose how each creature blocks this turn.

Boros Signet 2
Artifact (Common)
1T: Add WG to your mana pool

One signet will be printed for each colour combination, 4 in Rav, 3 in GP, 3 in D. These will match the colour combination 'guilds' featured in each set.

Boros Garrison
Land (Common)
Comes into play tapped.
When Boros Garrison comes into play, return a land you control to it's owner's hand.
T: Add RW to your mana pool

This land is an additional dual on top of the 10 'pay to 2 life as it comes into play cards. Across the expansion 10 such lands will be printed, 4 in Rav, 3 in GP, 3 in D.  These will match the colour combination 'guilds' featured in each set.


Also, guild names and coour combinations featured in Ravnica...

Boros : Red-White
Dimir : Blue-Black
Golgari : Black-Green
Selesnya : White-Green

[eldaec]

Putrify - 1GB
Instant (U)
Destroy target artifact or creature. It can't be regenerated.


Lightning Helix - RW
Instant (U)
Lightning Helix deals 3 damage to target creature or player and you gain 3 life.

Hunted Troll - 2GG
Creature - Troll Warrior (R)
When Hunted Troll comes into play, put four 1/1 blue faerie tokens with flying into play under the control of target opponent.
G: Regenerate Hunted Troll.
8/4

Hunted Dragon - 3RR
Creature - Dragon (R)
Flying, haste
When Hunted Dragon comes into play, put three 2/2 white Knight creature tokens with first strike into play under target opponent's control.
6/6

[Margalis]

Hmm...interesting.

Purify is just great. A terror that not only work on artifact creatures and black creatures, but all artifacts as well.

Lightning Helix: 3 targetable damage for 2 is good, and life gain is always ok. The issue there is that a red/white deck is probably going to be an aggro deck where life gain doesn't matter a whole lot. (Although good against other aggro decks)

Hunted Troll: 8/4 regenerating is nothing to sneeze at, but neithe are 4 1/1 flyers. Obviously it's very vulnerable to destruction and bounce. it also opens up the door for equipment and ninjas from the otehr side.

Hunted Dragon: This is even more susceptible to bounce and removal. But it has haste and flying.

I like these kinds of cards. They depend so much on the rest of your deck, and the rest of your opponent's deck. So far Rav looks much much better than Kami. I do like the 2 color themes a lot, and a lot of the individual cards look very neat. Kami was very bland compared to both Mirrodin and it looks like Rav as well. The power level in Rav also looks higher. (These 2, blandness and power, are at least somewhat related)

[schild]

The thing about Wizards and Multicolor cards is that they think they can make them more powerful because at base level they may require UW instead of WW or whatever. This is preschool level thinking and should be reprimanded because it makes shit like Spiritmonger. That said, I love it and I'll love it even more when my big overpowered undercosted cards go up against someone elses.

[Raging Turtle]

Actually, for tournament decks, the multi-color requirement usually works.  Spiritmonger, as hugely undercosted as it was, never saw any serious tournament play and probably never will.  Lightning Helix is crap outside of a dedicated r/w deck; most decks would prefer Magma Jet's scry.  That said, this block will raise the hell out of the power level for prismatic - which is a good thing, because previously most of the good cards were expensive IPA. 

I'm really surprised they printed Putrefy.  I only hope its a common like terminate was.  I really like the hunted cards as well - so many tricks you can create when you give your opponent unexpected permanents.

I think this is going to be the block where I get back into limited 

[schild]

All I know is that putrify will make my blue/black stuff....better. Lots better.

[Margalis]

Actually, for tournament decks, the multi-color requirement usually works. 

Tournament decks are typically fast. A cost like 4RW is very different from just RW, because the whole point of a cheap card is that you can play it early, but having 2 colors in a casting cost negates that. That's why you never want to mix something like 1WW and 1RR in the same deck, there is a pretty good chance you won't be able to play it at the right time.

RW for the card is aggressive, but not that aggresive. 1R for 3 damage is the standard for red direct damage now. Changing that 1 to W instead gives you 3 life. Pretty good. But 1RW would be pretty mundane overall, probably better to stick to plain old red damage then.

I really like the hunted cards as well - so many tricks you can create when you give your opponent unexpected permanents.

Exactly there's tons of ways to negate the disadvantages or even turn them into advantages, in the right deck. Whether or not that will work in any tournament worthy deck is a question, but it always is.

[Johny Cee]

Actually, for tournament decks, the multi-color requirement usually works. 

Tournament decks are typically fast. A cost like 4RW is very different from just RW, because the whole point of a cheap card is that you can play it early, but having 2 colors in a casting cost negates that. That's why you never want to mix something like 1WW and 1RR in the same deck, there is a pretty good chance you won't be able to play it at the right time.

RW for the card is aggressive, but not that aggresive. 1R for 3 damage is the standard for red direct damage now. Changing that 1 to W instead gives you 3 life. Pretty good. But 1RW would be pretty mundane overall, probably better to stick to plain old red damage then.

I really like the hunted cards as well - so many tricks you can create when you give your opponent unexpected permanents.

Exactly there's tons of ways to negate the disadvantages or even turn them into advantages, in the right deck. Whether or not that will work in any tournament worthy deck is a question, but it always is.

Lightning Helix could see play in tournament decks, depending on the efficaicy of mana fixing.

The hunted cards seem to be at the right level of gain/cost.  The Dragon could see use as a finisher,  considering it's a hasty-evading-cheap creature.  Especially with Arc Slogger out,  and the amount of "deal 2 damage to all creatures" spells that red has.

The Boros Archangel is begging to be reanimated.

Green/black looks like it's going to be pretty strong.  Kill any creature or artifact spell (kill target Jitte anyone?),  the Sisters (G/B legend with snazzy abilities), guildmage, etc.  Throw in Greater Good,  and it may be deadly.

When Mirrodin rotates out,  I think we'll be looking at an era where competitive rogue decks are a feature.  Much like Onslaught era Magic.

[Strazos]

I yearn for the day Mirrodin cycles out.

[Margalis]

The sad part of Mirrodin is, it actually has a ton of really interesting cards that are just totally overshadowed.

Kami, on the other hand, has a ton of pretty weak "Crappy overcosted spirit with soulshift" type of cards.

I think the colored cards in Mirrodin are more interesting than the ones in Kami block, which is pretty sad considering there are less of them and a bunch of them are just useless artifact synergy cards like the Nims.

[Raging Turtle]

For some reason I really really hate the whole arcane/soulshift/spirit crap of Kamigawa Block. 

[Raging Turtle]

Holy crap check out the new cards in the rumor mill

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/forumdisplay.php?f=27

A few of many:
Helldozer - 3BBB
Creature - Zombie Giant (R)
BBBtap, : Destroy target land. If that land is nonbasic, untap Helldozer.
6/5

Ursapine - 3GG
Creature -Beast (R)
G: Target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
3/3

Devouring Light -  1ww
Instant (U)
Convoke (Each creature you tap while playing this spell reduces its cost by  or by one mana of that creature's color.)
Remove target attacking or blocking creature from the game.

[eldaec]

Szadek, Lord of Secrets   3UUBB
Legendary Creature - Vampire   
Flying
If Szadek, Lord of Secrets would deal combat damage to a player, instead put that many +1/+1 counters on Szadek and that player puts that many cards from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
5/5

[Strazos]

Wow, talk about causing draw-out....

[Margalis]

I like Ravnica in general but I HATE the emphasis on decking. Decking is an incredibly boring and un-fun way to win. People are going to hate it.

[Johny Cee]

I like Ravnica in general but I HATE the emphasis on decking. Decking is an incredibly boring and un-fun way to win. People are going to hate it.

Decking isn't so bad, really.  Compared to combo decks or permission/denial decks.  Even with Traumatize and the new U/B spell, plus legend vamp,  it's going to be tough to get the opponents deck down.  And it's vulnerable to Ivory Mask, counters, and creature kill.  Decking should have awful match ups against aggro,  especially white weenie/red aggro. 

Combo decks are complete ass to play against.  A good combo deck doesn't care what you do,  it just plays out it's combo.  Part of the reason Tooth and Nail sucks so badly is it's really a combo deck.  Accelerate,  play Tooth, win.

Permission/denial decks are basically land destruction and counter.  They completely lock down their opponent,  and really is no fun to play against or play.  Everytime I try to play one I'm bored out of my mind.

[schild]

I like decking decks. But I never liked the Millstone variety.

[Strazos]

I like stupid combos, like using raise dead when you have multiple gravediggers in the GY, so that you can usually pull out at least 3 creatures for 1 black mana.

[Raging Turtle]

maybe I'll hold off selling that foil Traumatize I drafted until Ravnica comes out...  :-D

[eldaec]

Permission/denial decks are basically land destruction and counter.  They completely lock down their opponent,  and really is no fun to play against or play.  Everytime I try to play one I'm bored out of my mind.

I find this sort of thing is always great fun to play (so are milling decks), but horrible to play against.

They are fun to play because you are always so close to both abject failure and stunning success (it usually only takes a couple of poor choices to lose in embarrassing fashion with counterspells - but equally the right choices on how to use counters will mean a win most of the time), but utter ass to play against, because when your opponent is playing counters you have insufficient information about what your opponent could do at any one moment to be able to make any sort of strategic decision.

Also, I  Traumatize.

I can't see milling becoming a tier 1 deck though. If it did there are too many easy hosers for milling decks, both Rav and 9th have cards to enable shuffling all or part of the yard back into the library. Plus the 'can't be the target of spells or abilities' stuff, and the fact that Rav and new standard look to be pretty fast formats at least at first glance.