Why are you so into CoH?

[Matt]

I just don't get it. Granted, I'm not an expert, but since release I've played one Scrapper (Kid Patriot) to level 6 and one Blaster (Aurelius) to level 7. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but this game seems to be the definition of catassing. Bashing the same boring thingies (most of which look basically the same and do the same things) over and over and over, and there is -nothing- beyond that in the game so far. It's like Everquest stripped down, with superhero skins. I mean, I'm having a good time myself, as I enjoy cheesy Marvel/DC-style superheros, but the tone of this board seems to be anti-basic-monster-bashing mechanics, and that is the sum of City of Heroes so far.

What is it you guys are liking/expected to like about it if you don't like catassing? Am I misunderstanding the definition of catassing? I mean, my hero throws an energy bolt or whatever and it's no different from a mage throwing a fireball or a Jedi throwing a lightning ball or whatever.

--matt

[Soukyan]

I just don't get it. Granted, I'm not an expert, but since release I've played one Scrapper (Kid Patriot) to level 6 and one Blaster (Aurelius) to level 7. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but this game seems to be the definition of catassing. Bashing the same boring thingies (most of which look basically the same and do the same things) over and over and over, and there is -nothing- beyond that in the game so far. It's like Everquest stripped down, with superhero skins. I mean, I'm having a good time myself, as I enjoy cheesy Marvel/DC-style superheros, but the tone of this board seems to be anti-basic-monster-bashing mechanics, and that is the sum of City of Heroes so far.

What is it you guys are liking/expected to like about it if you don't like catassing? Am I misunderstanding the definition of catassing? I mean, my hero throws an energy bolt or whatever and it's no different from a mage throwing a fireball or a Jedi throwing a lightning ball or whatever.

--matt

As I'm rather tired this morning, I'll kick things off with the short answer. The combat is fun and fast-paced. I think that goes a long way toward making the game fun. In EverQuest, as a solo player (and unless you could quad-kite), you had to pretty much solo mobs and fights lasted a long time with long downtimes between. Not to mention that a green could kill you pretty quick-like even with a level variance and then of course, your character was always the sum of the equipment. With City of Heroes, your character is a hero not because of equipment, but because he/she has superpowers, or in other words, their base skill set allows them to go about being a hero.

Yes, it is basic monster-bashing. But the mechanics of being able to fight multiple villains of equal or greater level while you are solo makes for a more engaging combat model. Also, it allows a player to feel that their character is at least somewhat powerful from the very start. Sure, Hellions could be swapped out with rats, snakes, hares, worms, <insert typical starting fantasy RPG mob here>, but that's not something that pops to the forefront when you play because there's too much else that is enjoyable.

Now, I will say this. I can see the game becoming just like EQ for me. It is a level grind, but that grind will only become appararent when the featureset loses its lustre. It's like this. This is the first MMOG in a long time to capture our imaginations and is a breath of fresh air for most of us here. It is unique in the way it does certain things and it can cater to both catass and casual equally as well. The removal of uber loot and dependence on equipment and the leaving off of things such as crafting and dependence upon other players for equipment or a decent economic model allow for a streamlined gameplay experience.

Soloers and groupers both can find a fun time in this game. Perhaps groupers moreso because alot of MMOGs are designed with groups or teams in mind, but at least they made soloing viable, and not just for necros and druids. ;) I think what it comes down to is this. When I play the game, I need not worry about having enough money to buy spells, equipment or anything really. I don't have to be concerned with getting to a certain level to get to the good stuff. Certainly there's some interesting stuff that becomes available as you level up, but they've made good stuff available right from the start so you don't feel left out. It helps that heavy reliance on uber loot is missing because that's one less thing that players need to worry about leveling up to obtain.

The developers have made a system that works on the premise that merely by logging in and having an enjoyable time, the player's character will naturally advance through the mechanics of the games. Is it perfect? If my missions and storyline continue to propel me through my levels without my ever having to level up to advance the story for myself, then yes. Sure, a lot of missions are just that sort of thing. Filler to propel me to the next level for the storyline, but at least I don't have to run around without a purpose. While it accomplishes the same goal, it does away with spawn camping and can allow for players to neatly allocate their playtime, for those of us with less leisure time. The game moves a player through different zones and settings organically as the character progresses.

Simply put, it is a breath of fresh air because it combines a lot of very good gameplay mechanics. Is it just a combat MMOG? Sure. But then again, you don't see me begging for a better way to bake bread in MMOGs either. If I want to learn a craft, I'll do it in real life. I don't need virtual progress bars and gathering of database entries to combine to create a new entry. ;) Yes, this alienates those players who seek excellent crafting in an MMOG, but you know what? That's ATiTD's bag. Yes, I pulled the old "if you don't like it, play such and such" trick. But I do that because it's true. Players seeking a robust crafting model will not enjoy City of Heroes. Plain and simple.

As a gamer, I prefer games that are fast-paced. I did the Diku MUD bit back in the day and years of incrementing a counter have numbed me to being able to enjoy that, no matter how many game systems surround the main level grind to try to appease my need for fun things to do. Really, all the systems are nothing more than counters to be incremented (and still most are based heavily on the Diku MUD model of advancement and character development) and when CoH loses its appeal and the counter shows through, I will stop playing. But for now, there's still a lot of appeal to me. For the moment, it's something I look forward to logging into and playing. When that turns to fear and loathing, aside from being apropos to the SuperGroup, CoH will get shelved for something else.

[tar]

Catassing is a state of mind.

It's what happens when you want the 'achievement' of a new level, but the process of getting there isn't fun so you put your head down and grind your way there as fast as possible.

In other words: It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it ;)

CoH is different because the process is fun. You don't need to worry about how quickly you advance because what you're doing at any level is fun. You don't have to wait and grind to get to the 'good stuff'. You don't need to worry about your friends outlevelling you because you can be sidekicked to join them anytime.

Ultimately there's no point to any of these games, they're all just data on disks that can and will eventually be wiped. Nothing is gained at the end of it, except the experience of having played the game.

CoH has made the experience fun from the moment you log in. Character creation alone is more fun than the entire game in some other MMOGs.

[daveNYC]

CoH has made the experience fun from the moment you log in. Character creation alone is more fun than the entire game in some other MMOGs.

Tell me about it, I spent 10-15 minutes just clicking the random button and seeing what it came up with.

Personally, the game reminds me of Grand Theft Auto.  You run around and kill things, or you go and do a mission and kill things.  At its most basic layer there isn't all that much in CoH that doesn't involve booting head, but it's what they do with that base layer that makes the game fun.

[Alrindel]

I think you may have meant "treadmilling" rather than "catassing".  Catassing simply means playing for ridiculously long sessions (implying unhealthy addiction) but it has nothing to do with the gameplay itself.

Anyways, in a nutshell I think CoH is appreciated here because it doesn't use the leveling treadmill as an artificial obstacle to prevent the player from accessing different encounters too soon.  Traditionally, MMOGs have tried to stretch their content over a long time by imposing a slow leveling curve, and compensated by enriching the game world with auxiliary material like crafting, an economy, player housing, claimable territory, whatever.  CoH has been designed to make the primary content - missions and combat - as accessible as possible right from character creation, ignoring all the secondary stuff.  Your new avatar doesn't need to acquire equipment, do introductory fedex quests, raise money, or fight low level rats to learn basic combat skills: you get your first mission in the tutorial and it goes on from there.  The sidekicking system is a great example of Cryptic's plan to get the players to the fun part rather than forever placing it just out of their reach.  I think that's what is so much appreciated by this community in particular.

It's a strong design but there are still question marks.  Given that CoH has no artificial speed bumps and no auxiliary content, how well will Cryptic be able to retain player subscriptions over the longer term?  By the end of next month the hardcore will be hitting the player cap and will have defeated all the high level missions in the game.

1) Does that content work properly?  We've already seen problems with the low-level advanced missions (Task Forces) being buggy and dysfunctional, in some cases wasting hours of player time.  The high level encounters weren't really tested in beta... do they work?

2) How fast can Cryptic patch in the highest level stuff that wasn't finished for release.  Can they outpace the catasses?  DAOC was never forgiven for releasing the game without the high level content and epic quests/rewards, or for releasing with Midgard unfinished and Hibernia barely started.

3) How much new content can Cryptic put in every month?  Will it be enough to keep the game interesting and fun, and above all worth $15?

Based on what we've seen of the dev team's performance so far, there's no reason to suspect that they can't pull it off, but to what extent remains to be seen.

[Sky]

It's fun. That's all I need.

[Sky]

By the end of next month the hardcore will be hitting the player cap and will have defeated all the high level missions in the game

Well, more power to Cryptic if they can brush off catasses who burn through levels. There's plenty of games for them to go 'achieve' in. We need more games without achievement crap imo, and more focused on 'teh fun' like Planetside and CoH. But that's me, and I'm the minority by far, apparently (I'm subbed to both those games and no other mmogs, which I can't stand).

Can they outpace the catasses?

This should never be a design goal. I dislike the fact that games like EQ design their high end content around the 'hardcore' players, it was a contributing factor to why I quit. I simply don't have the time or patience to sit around playing their boring ass campfest high end game that was designed around the most retarded style of gameplay I can possibly imagine short of ProgressQuest.

As long as you design for catasses, you will be a catass game. We need less catass treadmills in the world.

 The high level encounters weren't really tested in beta... do they work?

There were plenty of bumped characters around. I saw a lot of them myself at the end of the beta.

Will it be enough to keep the game interesting and fun, and above all worth $15?

No. It never will. A game is only fun so long as you have fun with it, and all the content in the world won't change that. Another problem I see with the mmog genre is the constant stretching of sub-par content. The content in CoH is pretty lame, imo. Just bashing baddies with some thin reason as to why. It's nice to have a story and all, and I am paying attention as I work through it, but the core of the fun, which is the critical element of this title, is the combat.

Trying to justify $15/mo is why we get treadmills, timesinks, and tedium. People can't 'justify' the games that don't do this, like Planetside and possibly CoH. The games I happen to enjoy over those games so many can 'justify' by their 'achievement'.

In my world games are for fun, acheivement is a real-world pursuit.

[Alrindel]

As long as you design for catasses, you will be a catass game.

I didn't say they should design for catasses, I said they took a reasonable gamble and released the game unfinished: the high-end content isn't done yet.  Sooner or later it has to be completed and pushed live - the question is, how fast can Cryptic do it and how many people are going to run out of content beforehand.  If two dozen no-lifers are whining on the boards that they've capped out at 40 and are bored but everyone else is 21, there's no problem.  If half the population caps out and the level 50 zones still aren't ready then Cryptic has a problem.

There were plenty of bumped characters around. I saw a lot of them myself at the end of the beta.

There were some; there weren't nearly enough to do the same kind of thorough testing that the lowbie content got.  I saw dev broadcasts begging for level 30+ players to test some encounter or other on the second-last day of beta.  Hell, the level 14 Task Force went live with game-stopping bugs because it wasn't sufficiently tested in beta - I doubt the 25-40 encounters were tested any more completely than that was.

[Soukyan]

As long as you design for catasses, you will be a catass game.

I didn't say they should design for catasses, I said they took a reasonable gamble and released the game unfinished: the high-end content isn't done yet.  Sooner or later it has to be completed and pushed live - the question is, how fast can Cryptic do it and how many people are going to run out of content beforehand.  If two dozen no-lifers are whining on the boards that they've capped out at 40 and are bored but everyone else is 21, there's no problem.  If half the population caps out and the level 50 zones still aren't ready then Cryptic has a problem.

There were plenty of bumped characters around. I saw a lot of them myself at the end of the beta.

There were some; there weren't nearly enough to do the same kind of thorough testing that the lowbie content got.  I saw dev broadcasts begging for level 30+ players to test some encounter or other on the second-last day of beta.  Hell, the level 14 Task Force went live with game-stopping bugs because it wasn't sufficiently tested in beta - I doubt the 25-40 encounters were tested any more completely than that was.

Good points on the testing. As to the level cap and appropriate content. As far as I am concerned, they released with a cap of 40 and they have content up to and including that level. That is content complete. Any mention of future level cap increases and the content therein related is something that I will analyze when it is offered. From the sounds of it, they did not go with the level cap of 50 for several reasons: lack of content for that level range, not enough testing for the levels prior to it and the most obvious that most players weren't attaining levels fast enough that 50 would be needed for some time yet. I certainly hope they can avoid more problems with encounters in the future. Players are going to rip them a new asshole for things that would go unmentioned or that players would work around in any other MMOG. Hell, EQ still has bugs from release that will never be fixed by any client upgrade or otherwise because they are server side problems that were left alone because the players became complacent and worked around them. I hope Cryptic meets any issues head on and fixes them because they have a game here that is stable and is a quality product. It was worth $50 and it's probably the first MMOG that was worth the box cost (perhaps FFXI NA was too ;)

[Murgos]

What’s fun about CoH that isn't fun about other MMOG's?  Ultima Online's use based system of leveling worked by allowing advancement of any skill or ability by using it.  Immediate feedback was gained and your avatar's ability to interact with the world increased accordingly.  Additionally there was some player skill involved in doing things in the proper combinations to achieve the greatest effect; many still regard this as the best advancement system ever created.  UO was a (is) a highly successful MMOG but because Everquest eclipsed it so quickly with its more immersive 1st-person 3-D (really 2.5 D) style everyone has fallen over themselves trying to duplicate Everquest’s success, including the vast majority of it's mechanics.

Really though Everquest’s 'system' was quite dull, exceedingly dull.  Often heard was the lament of "Hit A and go make a sandwich” for combat or the horrid click-fest that was (the entirely ineffective) trade skill system.  So a lot of developers have inherited Everquest’s DULL system and are now seeking ways to 'put the fun in'.  Mostly this is being done by making incremental changes to the systems themselves often only cosmetic ones.  For Example DAoC added a very humorous progress bar to their tedious trade skill system, oh joy!  Though to be fair most of the competition didn't even add in that level of interactivity.  Combat in SWG, 5 years later, still mostly involves the 'hit attack and go make a sandwich' routine that NO ONE liked in EQ, sure they added whack-a-mole for extra damage or effects, but those skills don't really DO anything except apply a multiplier, the majority of your combat is still a LINEAR EQUATION OF AVERAGE DAMAGE PER SECOND OVER SOME PERIOD OF TIME, with the entirety of your goal for the game to make the top half of the equation bigger and the bottom half smaller.  SWG also has a very advanced trade skill system, but at its heart it's still click this, click that, click combine, TEDIOUS.  Ditto for FFXI.

Also I would like to point out that as these games have advanced they have actually LOST any terrain interactivity they might have started with.  In EQ you could at least jump over a log or a river of lava.  In FFXI or SWG you can't even do that.

What is different about COH?  Well the first thing you notice when you log in is that CoH has given you back Jump, you notice this because as soon as you start the tutorial mission you see people hoping like demented little bunnies.  This does a lot to make just the simple act of traveling fun, traveling is a BASIC element of a 3-D world and for some reason most games have decided to make this part as tedious as possible.  You move slowly, you can't interact with the terrain, for all intents and purposes the terrain in 99% of the MMOG's out there could be abstracted to a flat plane without changing the game play one bit, people, in general, are very good at abstract thought and they know this.  In CoH you can jump over walls and moving cars and people and trees and from ledges to ledges and to the tops of walls and over chasms and it happens as soon as you hit the button!  Instant immediate twitch gratification, woo-hah!

In most other games your character moves through the world as slowly as the developers think they can get away with.  My FIRST thought on logging into DAoC was, "Is there something wrong with the run animation?" ditto SWG.  In fact movement was so bad in DAoC I dreaded having to go anywhere because it took so LONG, again ditto SWG.  I need not remind you that this is inherited from EQ where it took 45 minutes to go from Qeynos to Freeport, if you were lucky.  FFXI was better as far as feelingly like you could move at a reasonable speed but it still takes you a LONG TIME to go anywhere.  In CoH, you log in and you start moving and you going at an alright clip but nothing special and then you see the little sprint icon and you take off.  A real sense of speed, everyone in the world knows how fast a human runs, we all have intimate experience with it.  In CoH sprint is a very fast sprint, in SWG running was at best a comfortable jog, maybe a trot.  In addition to this CoH offers even faster more interactive modes of travel, super-speed which in the metric of the game world’s ratios is about 80 miles per hour.  People know 80 miles per hour, it when the cop gives you a ticket and here you are running that fast in the game, AND they give you a cool sound effect and flashing lights AND sparks!  Instant visual, audible and visceral feedback.  The same things with teleportation and super-Jump and flying (How many games have told me flying is not possible?).  I never rode a landspeeder in SWG or a chocobo in FFXI but I doubt they are comparable in terms of thrill otherwise people would have said something.

Even better CoH manages to do this without creating an atmosphere of 'haves and have nots.'  Everyone can have.  Everyone can even have multiple, see EQ wizards and druids and shamans for the run speed and teleport mechanic everyone else is using.  While everyone else is saying “You can’t get there from here” or “Slow down” CoH is saying “Go faster!” and “Go anywhere!” except, apparently, the top 6 floors of a skyscraper.

That’s just what Cryptic has done right at the basic interaction level of the player with the world.  So they start off with a world that’s fun to be in and add stuff to do on top of that.

Everyone has been moving towards a combat system of activate-able powers.  Interestingly this duplicates almost exactly the combat model for an EQ spell caster.  Fine, that was the only fun combat in EQ.  Cryptic just applied that model to everyone.  Everyone in CoH is a spell caster and even better every spell has a cool graphical effect and an audio cue.  Ok, what else was fun in EQ combat?  The answer is crowd control.  I doubt if EQ would have had half the popularity it did without the enchanter.  The EQ enchanter is a force multiplier, the enchanter is such an integral part of EQ now that most encounters can not even be contemplated without one.  CoH has crowd control in spades; most archetypes have some amount of limited crowd control and there are multiple paths to being an effective crowd controller.  When you add in crowds of 20 or 30 mobs this becomes a truly engaging element of game play.

Any decent sized level 10+ group in CoH is a whirling, blazing, amazing engine of destruction.  It is a truly exciting encounter to have 8 players combining their best efforts against dozens of mobs, in the course of a normal combat there will be advances and retreats (some of which can get quite hairy) lucky successes and heroes performing heroic acts, players using the wonderful movement system to zip back and forth, jump around, fly and teleport to get a momentary advantage any of which can turn the tide of a battle.  Not to mention all the pretty lights, flashing colors, interesting sounds, warning cues and success notifications.  Combat in groups in CoH is just plain fun and borders on the twitch level of game play of a Team Fortress match.  Speaking of Team Fortress I think we all know what we would like to see in City of Villains, yes?

There’s more, I haven’t really touched on crafting other that to point out how tedious it is in every incarnation so far and I haven’t talked about looting and phat loots yet at all but this is already way longer than I like so I’ll leave that conversation to someone else.

[Soukyan]

I think Murgos summed up extremely well the elements that give it such a "Wow!" effect to the players. Nice post.

[Fargull]

I mean, I'm having a good time myself, as I enjoy cheesy Marvel/DC-style superheros, but the tone of this board seems to be anti-basic-monster-bashing mechanics, and that is the sum of City of Heroes so far.

Matt,

You mention right there part of why everyone is having fun.  It is vastly different than the Fantasy theme currently prevelant.  I think it took something outside that mold to make the change.  Is the treadmil there, yes, but why is no real hate being thrown at it.. mainly because Cryptic has done something out of the gate that no other MMORPG has done yet, they made combat fun.  Diablo was fun because you could take on more than one creature, the combat looked heroic.  In the rest of the playing field it boiled down to single mob encounters.  Looks like WOW is offering this same multi-mob combat layer.  COH also pushed the envelope for non-autoattack combat, which seems to have been the only thought mode of combat since the release of UO.  Not to mention as Alrindel has pointed out, the Sidekick system which takes the my friend with fifty free hours a week can not play beside me in the game because I suckor for only having 15 hours a week to play...

Not to mention the fact that so far the bloody launch has went off without a hitch.

[Rasix]

Perhaps a description of an encounter I had last night will show why I like this game:

I have a mission to kill 10 Circle of Thorn members at level 6.  The only place where I'm able to find them at this level is on the rooftops of King's Row.  So, being that I took hover, in anticipation of fly, I was able to hover up to the rooftops and patrol the area.  

It was pretty simple, except for the Life Mages which run up to you and like to pretend they're a suicide bomber.  But thankfully due to hover, that wasn't an issue.  Also I was able to stay out of melee range while I delivered a heaping helping of firey death.  

Finally, I have about 2 left to go and come across a big collection of Circle of Thorns.  The setup for these guys is pretty impressive as they're usually doing some sort of magic on a helpless prisoner when you stumple upon them.  Now, this group looks like a little more than I can handle.

So, I toss on a damage, accuracy and defense inspiration and fire away at the minions. I tear into them with a fireball and pelt away with fireblast and flares.  I've downed about 5 even cons at this time but notice I've got two yellow con Life Mages left pounding me from a distance.  I know I don't have enough in the tank left to take these suckers on, so I drop out of hover onto the rooftop. Pop a healing inspiration and jump off the side of a 10-20 story building.  I land and make like Jesse Owens and speed off.

This is as a level 6 player. No game in this genre has provided any sort of enounter that dynamic and fun at what is essentially still a noobie level.  I used my skills to their maximum potential and prevailed in a semi tough quest.  At that point I also had 3 main attack skills which are all valid and valuable in combat, a root with damage and I can fucking fly. AT LEVEL 6.

Any game that has this sort of freedom of movement, decent AI, and a captivating combat experience even at low levels is going to get my money.  The camp superhero factor just amplifies all that I like with this game. I can see myself getting bored with this and moving on, but not yet.  Not for a while (gotta finish my damn master's project first).

[cevik]

Because it's new.. and because it's shiny.. mostly because of the shiny..

[Murgos]

Because it's new.. and because it's shiny.. mostly because of the shiny..

True, oh so true.  Even X-Com gets old after enough raids on Cydonia.

[Flashman]

Wow. This thread has some great writing in it. Seriously. The tone is so different from what I usually read from MMRPG veterans.

Sounds like you guys are having some serious fun and you've hit on all the things I'm hating about SWG as much as I really really want that game to be good.

I'm buying my copy this weekend.  

Goodbye SWG. Hello CoH.

[cevik]

I'm buying my copy this weekend.  

Goodbye SWG. Hello CoH.

Just bear in mind that if you enjoy ascpects of SWG other than combat, they don't exist in this game.  CoH is excellent at what it does, but it's not a jack of all trades MMOG like SWG..

[schild]

I'm gonna post a front page update with some of this stuff. If you have any qualms with that, you have 12 hours to send me a PM and say nay. Otherwise, mleh on you.

[Mr_PeaCH]

Wow. This thread has some great writing in it. Seriously. The tone is so different from what I usually read from MMRPG veterans.

Sounds like you guys are having some serious fun and you've hit on all the things I'm hating about SWG as much as I really really want that game to be good.

I'm buying my copy this weekend.  

Goodbye SWG. Hello CoH.

I believe I was in that same boat.  I simply was overwhelmed by the constant praise by people not known for giving it out lightly and without thought.  Bought the box opening day and tried it myself for the first time, fell in love for myself and I am not looking back.  It's really been electrifying and 100% fun.

[Matt]

Good replies.

For myself, CoH is the only graphical mud (or MMORPG if you prefer) I've lasted more than 4 hours in before getting bored to death. But having said that, I'm fairly sure its appeal will be gone well before my initial month is up simply because the game is so one-dimensional. I'm looking forward to being able to fly (I chose an offensive power at level 6 instead of hover with both of my characters) but I suspect that'll be interesting about as long as the helicoptors were in Vice City: It's neat to fly around for awhile but ultimately it's just another form of transportation.

I'm looking at CoH much more as a single player game or Xbox Live type of game rather than as a virtual world that I'm going to want to spend a lot of time in.

--matt, pointing to his .sig

[schild]

I may do a writeup on this - and I mentioned it on Teamspeak in game. But anyway - City of Heroes is to the MMORPG world what Super Mario 1 is to Nintendo. It's the first thing to polish the basics to perfection.

[Alluvian]

Great thread, and Murgos made a great post with one part that confused me:

Everquest eclipsed it so quickly with its more immersive 1st-person 3-D (really 2.5 D) style

In what way was EQ 2.5d?  It was fully 3d in freedom of movement and geometry.  The levitate was limited and there was no true flight, but the Z axis was handled appropriately for that type of game.  True flight would not have worked for game balance reasons not engine limitations.  Fully 3d for sure.

[Murgos]

You are right Everquest is fully 3-D, my mistake.  It just that when you purposefully limit the design of the game to include as few elements in the z-axis as possible it certainly SEEMS like a 2.5-D game...

[Djamonja]

CoH sounds like a fun game, but I still get the impression that it is is like Diablo (superhero version obviously) set in a persistant multiplayer world. Since the game is only about PvE, how do people (you folks) think they will feel about CoH 2-3 months from now?

[Rasix]

Since the game is only about PvE, how do people (you folks) think they will feel about CoH 2-3 months from now?

I will have most likely will have moved on depending on how fast I burn through the content and if I like the content when there's no more advancement to be had.   However, I level rather slow being now married and having a full time job.  

Really, I don't expect these games to keep me infinitely amused.  If they can manage giving me a fun time for month possible 2 or 3, then I feel they've done a good job especially since I doubt this game will leave the same acrid feel in my mouth like DAoC, SB, SWG, and AO did (I could be proven wrong).

I doubt most of us will play it longer than 3 months.  I'd probably wager that about half will drop off after 2.  I fully expect, given the nature and track record of this genre, for most power players to burn through the content before the top end game is solidified.

While a long subscription time is a measure of a successful MMORPG it seems, it's not a measure of how good the game is.  If they can provide a hook to keep people playing longer, then perhaps it will be successful in industry terms.  That however, remains to be seen and they'll have an uphill climb without having uber loot for people to lust over.

[Alrindel]

Since the game is only about PvE, how do people (you folks) think they will feel about CoH 2-3 months from now?

I don't expect to be still playing three months from now. However, since CoH doesn't suffer from the massive database bloat that other recent games (SWG) have, I expect them to keep cancelled account characters on tap forever, and profit from people re-upping for one month subs just to check out the new content every once in a while.  Certainly if a few months down the line I heard about some really fun new zone, or mission, or something I would drop the $15 to check it out.

[Soukyan]

Since the game is only about PvE, how do people (you folks) think they will feel about CoH 2-3 months from now?

I don't expect to be still playing three months from now. However, since CoH doesn't suffer from the massive database bloat that other recent games (SWG) have, I expect them to keep cancelled account characters on tap forever, and profit from people re-upping for one month subs just to check out the new content every once in a while.  Certainly if a few months down the line I heard about some really fun new zone, or mission, or something I would drop the $15 to check it out.

Exactly. I did the 3+ year stint in EQ and over 2 years in DAoC. I'm done with that garbage. My new hobby is scuba diving. If an MMOG can keep me interested for 2 or 3 months, as was stated, it's a good game. If I want an immersive online world to play around in for years at a time, I'll go for a free text MUD as I have in the past (it saves money and is usually just as good if not better than the graphical counterparts ;).

Matt, for you, I imagine, a fully realized online world with huge breadth of content is what you are looking for. I have a hunch it is because this is how you make your living, by crafting these sorts of worlds for people. So it's understandable the CoH would feel like a one-trick pony to you. But from my perspective, it is a breath of fresh air. No long term commitment to character development, no ancillary systems to treadmill to advance, etc. As Alrindel stated, I can get some entertainment value out of the game and when I "finish" it, I can always resub at a later time to check out the new stuff and there will still be people who hang around and pay to play while the new stuff is being made for the game. I don't think CoH will have any worries about subscription numbers dying off. Hell, people have paid UO subs for years just to keep a pixelated house in existence on some database somewhere. Heh.

[Signe]

I play because my cable guy plays and I'm hoping to get free premium channels.

[Grelf]

It's a wonderful diversion. No timed raids, no quests you need to collect 300 people for, nothing but happy bashing of skulls.

Like one of the previous posters stated, I felt useful, at level 1. I didn't feel (and still don't) that I have to treadmill for a week or a month to get to the fun part of the game.
 
So far, seems the game is the fun part.

[Fargull]

I dont know how long I will play.  Probably at least another month as intensly as I am right now, and then will probably thin out a bit.  The game has so many dynamics.  The concouring of the Z axis is just amazing.  Fly is the shiz.

I enjoy watching the server mature more than I did in any other game, you constantly see people doing more incredable things.  Hell, I enjoy flying into a group of greys and just blasting them into nothing in no time flat.

Blah, now stuck at work jonesing to play.

[daveNYC]

I'm worried how fast the hard-core catasses will blow through the game.  I saw some guy broadcasting 31 Tanker LFG a couple nights ago.  Level 31 and he hadn't even been playing a week (including any head start).  Crazy.

[Koyasha]

In what way was EQ 2.5d?  It was fully 3d in freedom of movement and geometry.

Movement and geometry, yes, but it really didn't mean anything, so most people tend to forget about it, except where it comes to getting over walls and such in order to get to places you're not supposed to be.  It's because of the fact that Z-axis often meant nothing in combat.  If you were standing 300 feet directly aboe the NPC, you were still being hit as if the NPC was next to you.  You could occasionally hit back, if you managed to position yourself right, too.

As for City of Heroes, Murgos put it pretty well.  I'm finding it fun at the moment because I can fight groups of things my level or higher, and win.  I like the combat.  Crafting isn't something I've ever thought should be important in MMOG's, at least not in the 'craft a butterknife 30,000 times so you can become skilled enough to craft a dagger, which eventually leads to a short sword....' method.  City of Heroes is fun, now, because the one thing it does, it does well.  I don't know about it's longevity, though.  In 1-3 months, I will probably be tired of it, like many others have said.

Really, I don't expect these games to keep me infinitely amused. If they can manage giving me a fun time for month possible 2 or 3, then I feel they've done a good job

Besides a measure of how successful an MMOG is, one wonders if this short a subscription time is even profitable, considering the costs of the servers, bandwidth, and so on.  If City of Heroes proves to be an initial success, but a long-term failure, I'd think that it's going to reinforce the idea that a long, boring grind is necessary in order to make an MMOG a monetary success.

[Kyper]

It's a wonderful diversion. No timed raids, no quests you need to collect 300 people for, nothing but happy bashing of skulls.

Exactly.  One of the liberating differences between CoH and many other MMOs is that in CoH you don't have to have the "Uber Beatstick of Doom[tm]" to succeed.  There's no camping for hours and no fighting over boss mobs for rare drops.  We could see varations on those things as the high level content develops, but I really hope we don't.

Also, as others have already posted, it's fun at level 1.  The combat is dynamic and engaging, despite calls by some testers for auto attack and sticky melee (thankfully, the devs have refused to entertain these requests).  

I still hope to see individual "lairs" for heroes and supergroup HQs as well as some type of quest trophies we can display there for completing missions.  

Expansions are exciting to consider.  Devs hinted long ago about what they might contain:  underwater zones, zones on the moon, etc.

I've been testing/playing since December and I'm not bored yet.  I'm also making a transition from hardcore to semi-casual game player, so there should be plenty of content to keep my playing hours occupied.

[Krakrok]

despite calls by some testers for auto attack and sticky melee (thankfully, the devs have refused to entertain these requests).

Because when you do catch the mob that ran and put the beat down on 'em it's satisfying. Skill based, not "wow look my randomizer fired off and my number went up".

Another big plus I think is knockback. You can beat the crap out of mobs in other MMO's and they just stand there until they die.  In CoH when you shoot them or hit them with wind they fly around.

CoH uses bones. If the mob is above or below you, your character bends at the waist and fires in the direction of the mob.

It FEELS like a co-op arcade game not a PvE MMO. It feels a lot like playing Golden Axe actually. Hear that? More Golden Axe, less EQ.

---

For me I doubt I'll ever get a character much past level 15-20 which is really a shame because the higher level powers are probably pretty cool.  It's all about trying out different power sets with new characters (I think I'm up to 5 characters so far in the final all between lvl 5 and 7).

Memorable ones so far are PapaSmurf and The Lone Ranger but I have a bunch more on my list to create like Al Capone, He-Man, and Govt. Schwarzenegger. Try creating a character named Al Capone in EQ and you'll probably get some GM telling you to change your name or else.

[Signe]

CoH just reminds me of those simple games most everyone played as children back when parents shouted, "Go outside and play.  You need fresh air!!"  Coppers and Robbers,  Cowboys and Indians, etc.  Uncomplicated and somewhat exciting.  

We used to go 'exploring' in the extensive wooded area behind my house when  I was a kid.  Same old woods, but we would imagine different scenarios.  There was an unused stretch of rail track and a lot of dilapidated out buildings.  Our favourite place was a huge, somewhat dangerous abandoned paper mill, complete with 'secret' area's and pits.  It was good old fashioned creepy fun.  Some of the missions in CoH creep me out the same way.  I like it.