Harry Potter spoiler thread. MOD tested and approved!

[Riggswolfe]

Personally leaning towards Dumbledore and Snape having discovered how to thwart the killing curse and just made it look like a death.  Would tie in nicely to why everyone seems to want the Defense Against the Dark Arts job yet no one seems to know exactly why it.

Xilren

I totally agree. And to answer something you said in an earlier post about Snape being mad because he's risking himself and Harry keeps mucking it up etc..

I think one huge difference between Harry and Dumbledore is how they look at people. Dumbledore as was brought up repeatedly tends to see the best in people and gives them chances. Harry tends to instantly categorize people as good or evil and he never changes. Snape has been evil to him for years and he never trusted him.

Personally, ever since we saw Harry's father picking on Snape and being a bully along with Remus and Sirius I've felt alot more sympathy for him and hoped he gets his heroic moment. I was also proud that Harry was ashamed of his father's bullying.

Guess this is my long winded way of saying that I hope Snape turns out to be part of some plan of Dumbledore's. I think ole Rowling is showing us too many reasons he is evil, the unbreakable oath to Draco's mother, killing Dumbledore, etc. My gut says that something is up.

[Johny Cee]

I do not believe great and powerful wizards are dead until you kill them 6 or 7 times cut the head off burn the ashes and scatter them to the four corners of the world.

Someone has been reading Cook.....

[Daydreamer]

Personally leaning towards Dumbledore and Snape having discovered how to thwart the killing curse and just made it look like a death.  Would tie in nicely to why everyone seems to want the Defense Against the Dark Arts job yet no one seems to know exactly why it.

Xilren

I totally agree. And to answer something you said in an earlier post about Snape being mad because he's risking himself and Harry keeps mucking it up etc..

I don't buy it - its too simple and too cheap:

Evil: Nobody survives my Ultimate Unsurvivable Attack!
Good: I always triumph in the end
Evil: Die like the wussy fighter you are *uses ultimate attack*
Good: ARG! I am greatly weakened, but neverthe less survived the Ultimate Unsurvivable Attack.
Evil: Inconcievable!
Good: Now to use my TradeMarked Attack and save the world in one hit, desipte being severly more beat up than Evil!

If there is one thing I have learned about Rowling its that she generally doesn't think in strait lines like most of the rest of us - the solution to the little mysteries in each book are hidden through-out the novel, but generally not apparent until they are revealed, and its never what you expect.  Posessed Quirrell in Book 1, The diary and basilisk in Book 2, the werewolf thing and time-machine dohickey in Book 3, etc., though to be honest HBP was a little lacking in this department.  However she draws this together in Book 7 it will likely look obvious in hindsight, but history says it will likely not be as obvious and cliche as bringing back the Mentor character to cheapen the Hero's Sacrifice.

[ahoythematey]

Well, one person already survived that ultimately EVIIIIILLL Unsurvivable attack, so...

[Daydreamer]

Who? I don't remember anyone surviving Avada Kedavra except for Harry, and that was extenuating circumstances.

[CmdrSlack]

Who? I don't remember anyone surviving Avada Kedavra except for Harry, and that was extenuating circumstances.

Way to lawyer it.

Damn, I hate lawyers.

 :-D

[Shockeye]

Potter ending revealed to drivers

Last Updated: Thursday, 21 July, 2005, 15:51 GMT 16:51 UK

Scores of fans of the latest Harry Potter book have had their enjoyment ruined after pranksters revealed the outcome of the book on a banner.



Motorists heading along the A442 near Telford came across the banner complete with the plot-spoiling words on Thursday morning.

Council workers had removed it from a footbridge by lunchtime.

The long-awaited sixth edition of the Harry Potter series was issued at midnight on Friday.

A spokesman for Telford and Wrekin council said: "People in the know tell us it had the outcome of the Harry Potter book on it.

"This does have a serious side to it as if the banner had fallen down it could have serious consequences for motorists."

[Ironwood]

That's classy.

Seriously.

[Pococurante]

I think one huge difference between Harry and Dumbledore is how they look at people. Dumbledore as was brought up repeatedly tends to see the best in people and gives them chances. Harry tends to instantly categorize people as good or evil and he never changes. Snape has been evil to him for years and he never trusted him.

I'm still only halfway through the book but Dumbledore is working Harry pretty hard on that issue.  The fact that Harry has to come to terms with Dad's/peergroup oppressive bullying has to be tied into that somehow.  The "sins of the father" thing, which Rowling is all over.

[grebo]

Old Dumby's picture is on the wall.  I think that means he's all done.

Snape also was overheard saying he didn't want to kill Dumby, and Dumpy said he had to do it.

This is the second meandering monstrosity she's written in a row that's 90% filler crap with some fireworks at the end.  Mediocre fireworks.

I suppose if you like reading about her little world and the whatever that goes on there, then it's great for you, but me personally, I wanna see some plot get developed dammit!

Bah!  Robert Jordan is probably green with envy.

[Llava]

I suppose if you like reading about her little world and the whatever that goes on there, then it's great for you, but me personally, I wanna see some plot get developed dammit!

I thought stuff that happened in the world WAS plot.  Or is that the other way around?

Congrats, you're the first negative review I've read about this book.

[Descended]

As has already been opined, I have a very hard time seeing Snape turn out to be ultimately evil (its Darth Vader all over again, except with a throne room scene that lasts seven books...).  An Unbreakable Vow on Snape is not something I would have thought was Dumbledore's style to use, until reading this book.  The fact he aquired one of the memories he showed Harry by slipping the 'donator' a Veritus potion suggests to me that Dumbledore doesn't entirely lean on his optimistic belief in humanity to win. 

I'd be very surprised to find out in book seven that neither of the following explanations of Snape's killing of Dumbledore is true: a) Dumbledore had an out or knew death was the best choice and opened his mind to Snape's mental probing so that Snape would know to kill him (thus the 'please' just before the killing), or b) Dumbledore and Snape planned this, including Snape's Unbreakable Vow, perhaps due to a prophecy, perhaps due to cagey thinking, and Harry was simply uninformed of this.

The irony of explanation 'b' is that Harry has spent six books not telling Dumbledore everything and not following the rules, yet Harry will be very angry when it turns out Dumbledore didn't tell Harry some important stuff... like Unbreakable Vows here and there or nifty death curse avoidance tricks.

Oh, and I'll be mad if Snape dies but Harry lives.  This series is actually about Snape's victory over himself, just told through Harry's perspective.

[Merusk]

..., perhaps due to a prophecy, perhaps due to cagey thinking, and Harry was simply uninformed of this.

Dumbledore doesn't stick stock in prophecy.  That's what he spent the better part of the book and the end of the last one trying to get through to Harry. You make your own destiny, there IS free-will.  This will become very important in book 7, I would think, as Harry stumbles and trys to work towards what prophecy tells him he must do before finally learning what has been said plainly.

The irony of explanation 'b' is that Harry has spent six books not telling Dumbledore everything and not following the rules, yet Harry will be very angry when it turns out Dumbledore didn't tell Harry some important stuff... like Unbreakable Vows here and there or nifty death curse avoidance tricks.

Oh, and I'll be mad if Snape dies but Harry lives.  This series is actually about Snape's victory over himself, just told through Harry's perspective.

Hey cool, then we can have some Prequel books! Maybe show how Harry and Snape are from the same hometown.. and something about Snape falling in love and joining the death eaters to save the girl.. yeah that'd rock!  :-D

[Pococurante]

a) Dumbledore had an out or knew death was the best choice and opened his mind to Snape's mental probing so that Snape would know to kill him (thus the 'please' just before the killing)

[grebo]

I suppose if you like reading about her little world and the whatever that goes on there, then it's great for you, but me personally, I wanna see some plot get developed dammit!

I thought stuff that happened in the world WAS plot.  Or is that the other way around?

Congrats, you're the first negative review I've read about this book.

The plot that happens in the world is stuff???  Um, yeah, I guess so...  Don't get me wrong, I love the series, I'll buy book 7 on Launch Day and read it ASAP.

My point was that not very much of this book dealt with the central plot of the books, that of the struggle between voldy and potty.  Right from the beginning, Rowling rambled from tangent to meaningless tangent, either introducing new meaningless things(the Muggle Minister, Cormac Mclaggen, Slughorn, Bill and Fleur, etc) or rehashing old meaningless things like train rides, burrows, Dursleys, Quidditch, etc, things that are necessary for the potter eperience, but seemed awfully dragged out and not interesting the 6th time thru.

Here is a summary of the plot things I got from the books:

Snape killed Dumby because Dumby wanted him to?  To put the fire under Harry's ass?  (gah, like that hasn't been done a million other places).
Draco is evil?  or is he a scared little boy with a part to play for good?  (Moaning Myrtle?  wtf??)
Voldy is a power mad maniac with power mad maniac memories.  Duh.
Horcruxes.  Cool.  Do this on page 100, not 500!!!!
Regulus Black.  Why not him instead of Slugboy?  Would have been another cool Lupin like thing.  That was great in book 3.

I can't believe people in this forum are actually thinking this book accomplished much.  Seems to me she set herself up for a massive mess in book 7.  Will it be 1500 pages?  Or perhaps it will just suck.  What does Rowling do?  Does she read the forums and such and get mad because people are figuring stuff out?  Is that why she hardly went anywhere in the last 2 books?

Bah.  I'm going to go read book 3 again.  That's Harry Potter the way it should be.

[Johny Cee]

grebo:

You are missing the point.

The point of the series isn't Vold vs Harry.  The point of the series is Harry & Friends,  growing and maturing,  with minor allegory about parental roles/duties and social mores, as well as choice and free will (Snape, Malfoy, Dumbledore, Harry and prophecy).

That's why the first couple books were simplistic, slightly fable-like,  moving to angst/rebellion, moving to mature themes and characters acceptance of actions and roles.

That's why we keep harping on the possible redemption stories,  like Snape or Malfoy, and on the relationships and friendships.

Jordan sucks because he stopped advancing both his plots and his characters 4 books ago.  We're left with a situation where the reader is following relationships that are bizarre and uninteresting with characters that don't grow or change.  And the plot has completely stalled out.

[Triforcer]

grebo:

You are missing the point.

The point of the series isn't Vold vs Harry.  The point of the series is Harry & Friends,  growing and maturing,  with minor allegory about parental roles/duties and social mores, as well as choice and free will (Snape, Malfoy, Dumbledore, Harry and prophecy).

That's why the first couple books were simplistic, slightly fable-like,  moving to angst/rebellion, moving to mature themes and characters acceptance of actions and roles.

That's why we keep harping on the possible redemption stories,  like Snape or Malfoy, and on the relationships and friendships.

I simply don't think there is enough time to "redeem" Malfoy.  Snape, yes...this has been building.  But we didn't have a hint of the Malfoy business until this book.  I still say his corpse will be catapulted over the Hogwarts walls in chapter 2 or something as a lesson to Narcissa.

[Pococurante]

FINAL BOOK - SPECULATION ALERT

Ok I just got past where Harry rips Draco a new one in Marcy's bathroom.  And this thought occured to me thinking back to the converation between Harry and Dumbledore after Harry successfully shares Slugworth's memory and the two discuss Voldemort's seven-shriven soul.

Dumbledore is not truly dead.  Snape knows this.  Now whether Rowling has them plan them together or Snape takes an opportunistic chance and "kills" Dumbledore knowing he'll live I can't say.  But what Snape will know is that Dumbledore decided to take a page from Voldemort's strategy and split his soul, counting on Harry to make the difference.  Where did Dumbledore decide to esconce the fragment?

The ruby-encrusted sword of Gryffindor that hangs in a display in his office that Dumbledore makes a point of mentioning to Harry.

BTW I found Dumbledore's explanation/denunciation of prophecy rather circular.  No wonder Harry's not immediately convinced.  Just because someone works to self-fulfill prophecy doesn't mean there is no such thing in the book's universe.

EDIT: nevermind my brain must have escaped when I had this harebrained thought.  No way Dumbledore would kill to split his soul.  MINOR FLAW!!!

[AOFanboi]

I simply don't think there is enough time to "redeem" Malfoy.

Sure there is: Rowling even set it up in this book, by having him come to Myrtle about his loneliness and fear, and having him not kill Dumbledore. The plot almost demands that he sacrifice himself to save someone in the next (last) book.

[Ironwood]

That's what I said too.  Though I don't think he's as bad as everyone makes out in this book.  I think he may even be part of THE PLAN.

[Jeff Kelly]

All of this won't answer the question however, why Snape took the unbreakable vow in the first place. I don't think that he has done it purely for securing his cover as a death eater.

Malfoy has always been one of Snape's favourites since book one, but I wouldn't risk so much for the kid of a fellow death eater, whose father I don't even like very much.

I think Snape is probably more involved with the Malfoy family than he's let on until now. I can't get the suspicion out of my head that Snape might be Malfoy's father or an old lover of his mothers' or something like that. After rereading the scene were he takes the vow, I cannot help but think that he took the vow out of personal reasons and not to secure his cover.

[AOFanboi]

I think Snape is probably more involved with the Malfoy family than he's let on until now. I can't get the suspicion out of my head that Snape might be Malfoy's father or an old lover of his mothers' or something like that. After rereading the scene were he takes the vow, I cannot help but think that he took the vow out of personal reasons and not to secure his cover.

What is strange though is the Malfoys' hatred for "mudbloods" given that we now know both Tom Riddle/Voldemort and Snape/The Half-Blood Prince are. I wonder if they know, and that there might be a showdown between the Malfoys and the other Death Eaters later on?

Mrs. Rowling, please to be writing book seven real fast, for the children and for great hustice.

[Samwise]

Re: Voldemort being a mudblood, remember that Hitler and many of his top guys weren't blonde-haired-blue-eyed Aryans.

[Pococurante]

AUGH! You've killed the thread - Nazi's mentioned by page two!

[ahoythematey]

Don't be so ignorant.

[Pococurante]

Don't be so ignorant.

Welcome to Humor.  You may not recognize with that 2x4 up your ass blocking your view.

[ahoythematey]

It's not stick up the ass syndrome, it's knowing this community.  Godwin is full of shit.

[Ironwood]

Um, anyway, you two being WOMEN aside :

Look at Draco (the films give you the best view).  Look at Lucius.  Now look at Snape.

If she even tries to pretend that there's not a proper father son thing there and that Snape is the father, I'll throw my suspension of disbelief up.

Clones.

[Llava]

By immaculate conception, this child was made!

[Triforcer]

Um, anyway, you two being WOMEN aside :

Look at Draco (the films give you the best view).  Look at Lucius.  Now look at Snape.

If she even tries to pretend that there's not a proper father son thing there and that Snape is the father, I'll throw my suspension of disbelief up.

Clones.

This is refuted by the First Law of the Universe: Hot women can do better than fugly. 

[Nevermore]

What is strange though is the Malfoys' hatred for "mudbloods" given that we now know both Tom Riddle/Voldemort and Snape/The Half-Blood Prince are. I wonder if they know, and that there might be a showdown between the Malfoys and the other Death Eaters later on?

Voldemort and Snape aren't mudbloods, they're half-bloods.  A 'mudblood' is a wizard/witch born of parents who are both muggles.

[Dren]

I finally finished the book and read the above.  I agree with most.

One thing I didn't see anyone mention as a possibility (maybe it is there but I missed it,) is Snape's relationship with Harry's mother.  My thought is that he secretly loved her and was devastated when the information he passed to V was used to ultimately kill her.  He fled to Dumby to try and repair what he had done somehow or get revenge on V.  I'm not sure if Dumby would partake in an unbreakable oath or not, but I think this is a big part of why he is so sure of Snape's loyalty.

I do believe Snape did something with his curse or helped Dumby prior to cursing him to make it seem like Dumby is dead or at most dead, but able to be brought back.  Think about how Snape was able to actually create new spells, potions, etc.  He was doing it as a child in school.  Why wouldn't he have continued doing as an adult?  He's had many years to come up with tons of new things.  No other wizard is mentioned doing this kind of thing, not even V.  They just mention him finding new dark and powerful spells and artifacts and using them to his advantage.  He's just had the instinct and power to be able to pull off magic developed prior to him.  I only remember him finding out about the killing curse, not that he created it.  I'm making a wild grab that Snape might have actually created that one too.  If he did, who better to know how to manipulate it?

I could be wrong, but I came away from this book feeling like Snape is much smarter and powerful than V.  It is just that Snape hasn't been near as ruthless or interested in power as V, so he's stayed pretty much unnoticed throughout.  My other belief of his love for Lilly shows that he is capable of love, which V is not.

Just some ramblings to add to the wild storm of theories here.

[Merusk]

A lightbulb just went off.

It's been mentioned many times that V is one of the most powerful wizards known for a long time, and I was going to rebut Dren with this and then point-out that Snape's talent is potions.   A-duh.. it hit me like a ton of bricks, Snape would have been the one to create the potion that Dumbledore drank.

   I wish I could remember any mention of V and how he did in potions when he was in school, but something tells me he wouldn't have cared much for it.  There's always comparisons being made between V and Harry, and Harry doesn't much care for potions, other than needing to know them.   Makes sense to me that V would have been the same way, so he would have turned to his master of potions, Snape, when he needed one for his Horcrux.  This fits-in with the whole 'Snape killed him, but did XYZ as well' theory pretty nicely as well.  It would also be another reason Dumbledore required it be Snape to help him, instead of being taken to the hospital.

[Samwise]

Hm.  What happens if you try to take an Unbreakable Oath that conflicts with an Unbreakable Oath you took earlier, I wonder?  Does the second one silently fizzle out?  That'd certainly be convenient.

[Pococurante]

Just another variation on sneaking wishes out of djinni.  Early hero stories are full of variations on that theme.

Our peer group has decided on the "Snape is Malfoy's father while never getting over his unrequited love for Lily" bandwagon.  It explains why Snape would bother getting involved in any of these events and could walk the fine line.  Rowling must have a thing for nerdy geek goths.

Oh, and Dumbledore comes back.  That is all.