Hope for the soloer?

[Dren]

I've come to realize that I'm just not going to raid at all.  I do not have time for it and frankly do not even like the activity.  However, the "endgame" pretty much requires it other than spending time mining, farming, playing on the AH.

Lately I've just been building up alts and diving into all of their professions while supporting each other with items and cash.  This has been somewhat fun, but it won't last much longer.  I'll get these alts to 40+ or even 60 and be right back to where I am with my Main.

I read the upcoming features, etc. and only see more raid content or raid necessary content or uber guild required content (same thing.)  Has anyone heard of any hope for us soloers or at least for small groups? (5 person groups.)  I could probably get my friends interested in the game again and group up if there was something to actually look forward to.

Can anyone offer me hope for this game?

[kaid]

Until they add hero classes to work on and enough high level content to support them no not really. Pretty much when you hit 60 or close to it raids are about it or pvp battlegrounds if that is your thing. Its really exciting seeing groups of people who obviously soloed up to 60 who then got thrust into the grouping/raiding thing. Well exciting unless you stay nice and far back from the disaster that is occuring.



kaid

[Amp]

Don't have time to look up the name of it but there is an instance coming that is being made for the casual lvl 60.
It's going to be a 20 man raid instance that can be done in 2 hours or less and it will have good loot.
I also read it can be done with less then 20 people.

Otherwise, you're pretty well shit out of luck.  That's the shortest raid instance in the game.  But you can find shorter 5 man  instance runs though not by much.   I ran Dire Maul to kill the prince awhile back when I had the time for this shit.  It took me 5 ....yes 5 fucking hours to complete, with a rogue whining the whole time about how they can't get into instance groups (neglecting the fact she was indeed in a fucking group atm)  the whole time.
 I've found I have no interest in joining a guild that will take over my character and doesn't want me playing alts etc etc etc.
Fuck you and your cattass guilds.    Which means my gear will never be epic.


So I play my druid alt.

The instance in Tanaris can be run in a short time, and is a 40's lvl instance.   Scarlet Monestary instance runs are pretty short also.  Mauradon is the first instance that starts to get time consuming.

[Dren]

Even a lower quantity requirement for a raid is still a raid and leaves me out.  That requires me to still join an uber guild because 20 active members in a guild at one time is uber to me.  Most of the time I'm in guilds that might have 6-10 people online at one time.  Call for a group?  2 people might speak up.

If I have to join an uber group, they will expect me to make raids constantly and if I don't I'll be penalized or just plain kicked out.  I can't stand that mentality and just plain can't abide by it.  I do not have the lifestyle that affords me the structured time it takes for that kind of committment.

I want difficult instances or similar content for solo play or at least more places for a 5-man group to go at 55+.  Mauradon is fine, but it is the only one right now.  I don't really even care that it takes 5 hours.  I probably won't ever finish it, but I can at least do something.

I am interested in the hero classes, but from the way things have developed, I wouldn't be surprised that the requirements to obtain those hero classes has some kind of raid content requirement.  I mean, they've done that with my epic mount quests that I will not be able to finish because of the raid content.

*sigh*

[Paelos]

Honestly, PvP is your only outlet. If you don't like pvp and you don't like raids, then you've effectively beaten WoW. I wouldn't recommend hanging around because it's not going to get more casual over time. I expect hero classes to be on par with DAOC's MLs in levels of annoyance.

[Fabricated]

I've pretty much resigned myself to never seeing any of WoW's high end content since I don't think I could stomach spending 3+ hours in an instance. My first clusterfuck of a Deadmines group made me waste at least 3 hours, and I can't possibly IMAGINE how fucking awful an instance where it takes a well oiled raiding machine to get it done in 3 hours would be.

[Sogrinaugh]

I understand the basic formula of "you get epics in MC cuz it takes more time and is more difficult".

What i would like to see is this:  Take the total man-hours it takes a 40-man group to clear MC, devide by the number of epics that drop, and make a 5-man with that ratio, doable in chunks of time.  Make part of that time questing for BoP components that can be done solo.

Only problem i see with this is from what i've heard, alot of the WoW dev's are EQ players who basically just design content that they like (i.e. RAID).

[Malathor]

Otherwise, you're pretty well shit out of luck.  That's the shortest raid instance in the game.  But you can find shorter 5 man  instance runs though not by much.   I ran Dire Maul to kill the prince awhile back when I had the time for this shit.  It took me 5 ....yes 5 fucking hours to complete, with a rogue whining the whole time about how they can't get into instance groups (neglecting the fact she was indeed in a fucking group atm)  the whole time.

WTF 5 hours? There is no way a DM prince run should take even 2 hours. A DM tribute or Strat baron run should be no longer than 90 min. 4 boss runs in DM east can be done in under 30 min.

Get yourself a decent guild that actually knows how to run shit instead of spending 5 hours in clueless, retarded pick-up groups and you might find the WoW end-game less fustrating, less time-consuming, and more enjoyable.

[Threash]

No instance should take more than an hour and a half outside of molten core.  Five hours doing prince in Dire Maul? wtf where you guys doing?  Last night we did a tribute AND a prince run in DM in an hour and 45 mins while taking the time to fight off a group in the arena and drop the named there.  UBRS takes 1.5-2 hours tops and thats the longest instance there is.  Seriously if you soloed your way to 60 and have no friends and didnt find a good guild you are playing the wrong fucking kind of game.

[Threash]

I understand the basic formula of "you get epics in MC cuz it takes more time and is more difficult".

What i would like to see is this:  Take the total man-hours it takes a 40-man group to clear MC, devide by the number of epics that drop, and make a 5-man with that ratio, doable in chunks of time.  Make part of that time questing for BoP components that can be done solo.

Only problem i see with this is from what i've heard, alot of the WoW dev's are EQ players who basically just design content that they like (i.e. RAID).

The problem with that is that in a 40 person raid there is room for every single class, in a 5 person instance you'll only take the optimal group.

[Amp]

It probably took so long because it was right after it released, I wasn't a tester nor were any of the other toons I imagine.  The rogue sorta knew where to go but for the most part, we were feeling our way through most of it and we probably killed everything in sight.
I've never attempted to run it again.  I'm sure it would be quite abit faster if all we were doing was killing the prince.

As for soloing my way to 60.  Pretty well, but I've got 7 RL buddies playing and 6 of them are rogues.
If you read my post above, you would see I have NO interest in a large guild, and don't have time for the endgame. 
Or maybe just don't want to make the time.  As a 60 mage that can play his toon, I get asked in guilds alot.
I just tell them, if you need a mage and see me online, send me a tell.  I have no interest in guild politics, DKP or any of the bullshit.
I guess I just like to play it like it's a video game.  And if that means i'm gonna miss out on killing Onxyia, I guess i'll never have an 18 slot bag.

Pickup groups can be fun if you luck out.

[Threash]

It probably took so long because it was right after it released, I wasn't a tester nor were any of the other toons I imagine.  The rogue sorta knew where to go but for the most part, we were feeling our way through most of it and we probably killed everything in sight.
I've never attempted to run it again.  I'm sure it would be quite abit faster if all we were doing was killing the prince.

As for soloing my way to 60.  Pretty well, but I've got 7 RL buddies playing and 6 of them are rogues.
If you read my post above, you would see I have NO interest in a large guild, and don't have time for the endgame. 
Or maybe just don't want to make the time.  As a 60 mage that can play his toon, I get asked in guilds alot.
I just tell them, if you need a mage and see me online, send me a tell.  I have no interest in guild politics, DKP or any of the bullshit.
I guess I just like to play it like it's a video game.  And if that means i'm gonna miss out on killing Onxyia, I guess i'll never have an 18 slot bag.

Pickup groups can be fun if you luck out.

Im not in a large guild, on a good night we have 12 people on.  We don't use dpk, we don't raid molten core (well i do, but thats because i actually make friends and get to know people so i get invited) and i still don't see where you get 3 hour instance runs from.  You and your 7 rl buddies would have a perfect team to run anything short of ubrs (which you could if you got a few more people), cept that they are all playing rogues.

[Amp]

I agree.   And a  mage with no healer is rough.  Makes instance runs insteresting and take abit more skill, and abit longer, but we can run alot of them.
But yea they are all rogues.  Which is one reason i'm leveling a druid.  Stealth along with them.

[TheWalrus]

  I'm not at the top end of our guild yet, but our main "raid" group is 4 rogues and a warlock doin ghetto heals. Theres some stuff they just cannot do, but for the most part takin it slow and usin your combos right seems to work for em.

 That, and we are really diggin the rogue class.

[Righ]

The longest instance is a 5-man LBRS Warlord's Command run. If you are in a large guild, you'll come to know this one, as it's the first step to getting people their Onyxia keys. It takes up to four hours, and it usually easier to break it into two and go after Wyrmthalak seperately, since the limitation is on the number of sets of documents available. A 5-man Scholomance can be quite time consuming too. However, for raids, UBRS is about as long as it gets, and with a group that's familiar with it but isn't jerking around too much, its very rapid indeed. Roll for punt.

The only raid-oriented guild on ER Horde that both uses DKP and insists on most people playing only their mains is Horde of Shadows. You can play what you want, when you want and roll for loot in probably every other guild. Of course, this means HoS is ahead in the Molten Core or Onyxia 'races' should you consider it that way, but they are not alone in raiding those places.

[Der Helm]

I am wondering( I could not find out when I played and I am not playing at the moment (waiting for the battlegrounds going live)), are the "Onyxia-keys" one shot items, or do you keep them once you obtain them.

[Kageru]

Onyxia keys are a permanent item, a necklace actually.

I'm disappointed that blizzard still don't have any signs of hero progression. It's still on their long term plan but given how slow blizzard moves that is far from comforting. Frankly I think they seriously under-estimated the work involved.

[Merusk]

Onyxia keys are a permanent item, a necklace actually.

I'm disappointed that blizzard still don't have any signs of hero progression. It's still on their long term plan but given how slow blizzard moves that is far from comforting. Frankly I think they seriously under-estimated the work involved.

Way back when they first introed the 'coming soon' pages they gave a timeline for each division.  Hero classes were in the timeframe of "a year or so out."   If you're waiting for Hero classes to save the game for you, don't.   Their first mistake was mentioning them during Beta instead of keeping them under wraps because people have been asking about them ever since.

[Threash]

The longest instance is a 5-man LBRS Warlord's Command run. If you are in a large guild, you'll come to know this one, as it's the first step to getting people their Onyxia keys. It takes up to four hours, and it usually easier to break it into two and go after Wyrmthalak seperately, since the limitation is on the number of sets of documents available. A 5-man Scholomance can be quite time consuming too. However, for raids, UBRS is about as long as it gets, and with a group that's familiar with it but isn't jerking around too much, its very rapid indeed. Roll for punt.

The only raid-oriented guild on ER Horde that both uses DKP and insists on most people playing only their mains is Horde of Shadows. You can play what you want, when you want and roll for loot in probably every other guild. Of course, this means HoS is ahead in the Molten Core or Onyxia 'races' should you consider it that way, but they are not alone in raiding those places.

I play alliance so i didnt have to deal with that for my key, the jailbreak quest we have to do is no picnic either but it takes place near the entrance to brd so its not as time consuming.

[Calantus]

Warlord's command got changed a while back so that the documents respawn at each point randomly after it is looted. All you need is a stealther to check the points and you can get all your documents relatively quick and easy once you clear the bosses. Also, LBRS runs are around 2 hours, not 4. You go straight for Wyrmthak, then go down and kill mosh, then go down and kill Voone (the room above him is the worst thing in the zone, pull em all out of the room into the passageway outside or it will likely bug out and get you all killed). We even did it in 2 hours without a mage or warlock. It's... interesting to say the least when you get to the spiders but it's doable. We didn't wipe either until we got to the buggy room of doom, and when we spawned that ogre from the pike+head in the skull pile.

[NiX]

Why are warlocks so big in raid groups? Healthstone/Spirit Stone?

[Rasix]

Why are warlocks so big in raid groups? Healthstone/Spirit Stone?

Banish/AE/Imp/Soulstone/Reliable ranged damage.

Edit: Summon is nice too.

[Threash]

Why are warlocks so big in raid groups? Healthstone/Spirit Stone?

Banish/AE/Imp/Soulstone/Reliable ranged damage.

Edit: Summon is nice too.

I love that freaking imp, i hit 6800hps on my rogue in MC the other night.

[Rasix]

Warlord's command got changed a while back so that the documents respawn at each point randomly after it is looted. All you need is a stealther to check the points and you can get all your documents relatively quick and easy once you clear the bosses. Also, LBRS runs are around 2 hours, not 4. You go straight for Wyrmthak, then go down and kill mosh, then go down and kill Voone (the room above him is the worst thing in the zone, pull em all out of the room into the passageway outside or it will likely bug out and get you all killed). We even did it in 2 hours without a mage or warlock. It's... interesting to say the least when you get to the spiders but it's doable. We didn't wipe either until we got to the buggy room of doom, and when we spawned that ogre from the pike+head in the skull pile.

2 hours is pushing it, even for going the backway and hitting Wyrmthak first. Even then, depending on where the doc spawn you're going to be doing a lot more than 2 hours worth of clearning to them.   I know this might very well be with experienced group, but mainly doing Warlord's Command in my guild is akin to babysitting.  No one that's keyed wants to do it anymore.  And usually, the first thing that's required of someone joining the guild is getting WC out of the way ASAP.  These are usually people with no upper tier raiding experience and usually very little upper tier instance work (really, a lot of people apply "fresh off the boat").   Yesterday I did it with a mage that died at least 5-6 times.  She only at Voone decided it was a bad idea to stand in the middle of the pack and spam arcane explosion.  The priest just didn't have the mana pool nor the timing to prevent some deaths.   The warrior, who is 16 (you can really tell with the kids), had trouble identifying where he needed to pull aggro off the priest.  Funny aside, the warrior actually got mad when I jokingly ninja'd the blue throwing axes for Voone.  Those things had long been a joke with our guild.  I mean, really, who the fuck needs blue throwing axes?  I don't trust this type of newb squad to do a back to front run especially the part where you have to jump down to Ommok.

We usually just do two runs.  Take them the  front way to Ommok and Voone and hopefully get docs (we got it for 4 yesterday, 3 noobs and my rogue alt). That takes 90 minutes to two hours. After that it's Wyrmthaak and then whatever's need for docs. It's a pain in the ass and more so if you're getting unlucky on doc spawns.  4 hours is a realistic expectation for how much time you're going to need to invest in Warlord's Command. 

[NiX]

The only problem I'm having with this game is finding people to group with regularly in the hopes that I can get into a large guild. It sucks that I followed I buddy onto DeathWing and the guilds there are in some huge feud. Black Knights VS D(something) of Ascension. It's like watching a very bad rerun of Jenny Jones. God it hurts. I actually want to raid, but I don't see the solo to 60 being easy as a warlock. Hrm, maybe time to switch servers?

[Calantus]

Yeah, we usually have myself - the helpful shaman who wants to get Onyxia, the mage who always rolls crap on Trindle, the priest who accidently ninja'd the trindle from the mage way back when, one of our uber tanks who also want Onyxia, and whoever needs the docs and has to be competent before they are even looked at as a possible app. We get that shit done FAST. ;)

[Righ]

For the hard of thinking - it takes up to four hours. Bully for you taking two hours every time. I've done all three bosses and all three spawns of documents in 95 minutes without the aid of stealth. It still takes up to four hours, and is the longest instance run in the game outside of Molten Core. QED.

Why are people on this forum such a bunch of contrary jerkwads for no reason?

[Shockeye]

Why are people on this forum such a bunch of contrary jerkwads for no reason?

Some questions have no answers.

[Sogrinaugh]

Why are people on this forum such a bunch of contrary jerkwads for no reason?

Some questions have no answers.

The  more pressing question for me is, WHY IS EVERYONES AVATAR A FUCKING CAT?!?

[schild]

Meow, do you know how fast you were going?

[Calantus]

Contrary Jerckwad? Fine, I'll explain, I should have seen it from the beginning. If people can't be expected to figure it out on their own I should have just flat out said it instead of beating around the bush. Frankly, the only reason it would take 4 hours is because you don't know your shit, or you are partied with people that don't know their shit. If either of those happen it's entirely your fault. It's a feedback loop is what I am saying. People are lamenting how they can't do instances due to the time being too much for their casual playsyles, but the only reason they take so long is because of their casual playstyles. When I want to do an instance I hit up /g, and see what's going on. If there's something I like it will take 2 hours max, and then I can go do another, or go solo, or play an alt, or whatever. I can do what all the casuals bitch about - log on, do an endgame for an hour or two and then go back to RL. It's not because I'm special, it's because I put myself in a position where I could do what I wanted to do.

What I'm trying to say is that if you expect WoW to magically spawn solo content enough to sate your desires and random players who are not the majority retards, you are going to be disappointed. Grab your playtime by the balls and put yourself into a position where you CAN do the things you want to do, you can't just waft around and expect it to happen. WoW isn't a deep game like UO was, you have definate things you know you can do and achieve. You should also know how to achieve what you want, but obviously that is not so. I'll give you a little hint Blizz should have put on the box: WoW is only more solo-friendly than EQ for the first 59 levels. Take that how it is and either get yourself into a position to enjoy it, stretch out the solo elements that are there, or realise that you've tapped all that WoW can be for you.

But thanks for thinking I was just waving my peen or being an asshole with no other point than to be contrary, it made me feel all fuzzy inside.

EDIT: Also, why would I provide helpful advice like the best route and how to avoid a buggy PoS room from fucking your group if I was just being a "contrary jerkwad"? Maybe they should have been hints that I was being helpful as in "oh wait guys, it doesn't ACTUALLY take 4 hours, it's just your group, try again with a good group and you should be ok". But no, obviously I was waving my peen, like LBRS isn't the 2nd shittest high-level instance (fuck you scholomance) and the last thing I want to do is run it or think about it.

[Shockeye]

Suddenly, I am no longer missing WoW.

[Amp]

Frankly, the only reason it would take 4 hours is because you don't know your shit, or you are partied with people that don't know their shit. If either of those happen it's entirely your fault. It's a feedback loop is what I am saying.

Casual gamers are the ones paying the fucking dev salary fool.   This post is wrong in so many ways it's not funny.  The fact you think that everyone knows (or should know) the dungeon backwards and forwards is humerous to say the least.   I'm guessing the first couple times you ran any dungeon you just knew where to go or happen to find someone that did.
When I play, it's not a race.  No I don't want to waste time and when I feel it is a waste, I hit /leave group.  But to play to your standards is a fucking joke.  I don't live in the game..sorry.

Grab your playtime by the balls and put yourself into a position where you CAN do the things you want to do,

Thanks for the inspirational lecture there coach.  /laugh

[Calantus]

Casual gamers are the ones paying the fucking dev salary fool.   This post is wrong in so many ways it's not funny.  The fact you think that everyone knows (or should know) the dungeon backwards and forwards is humerous to say the least.   I'm guessing the first couple times you ran any dungeon you just knew where to go or happen to find someone that did.
When I play, it's not a race.  No I don't want to waste time and when I feel it is a waste, I hit /leave group.  But to play to your standards is a fucking joke.  I don't live in the game..sorry.

Knowing your shit is not knowing the instance backwards and forwards. You could dick around in DM West killing everything that moves and still not be there for 5 hours. Your group sucked, you know your group sucked. You also know why your group sucked. And yet... you are not doing anything about that? There are plenty of guilds that are just a bunch of people who like to run instances together and shoot the shit, you wont get your character controled by teh ebil boogeyman if you join one of those. And potentially you gain some friends, as well as playmates who wont cause your DM West run to take 5 fucking hours.

I played 10 hours of WoW last week... wooo, I better get off my computer and go do something else at 8pm when shit-all is on TV, I have no book, and it's a workday tomorrow. My standards of doing something in my recreational time that I enjoy, and doing so in a manner I find conductive to not wanting to slash my wrists in the bathtub sure is ruining my life. I need to quit teh ubar guild I'm in despite it being (mostly) full of people I enjoy sharing my gametime with and get to spamming "LFG BRS/Scholo/Strath/DM" in Org so I can party with people who waste my time bitching about their playstyle and make my runs 4x the length they should be and make my playing time miserable.

Thanks for the inspirational lecture there coach.  /laugh

It's cool, I'm used to talking to people who don't listen.

[Amp]

Breath buddy breath, that's a mouthful of nuthin!

Knowing your shit is not knowing the instance backwards and forwards.

huh?   How can you know your shit the first time into a place.  You don't make any sense.

My first time into an instance and it took nearly 5 hours to kill the Prince.  I got to explore the whole place, and I enjoyed myself while also finishing the quest.  Guess what...I WIN!
I'm sorry if this treads on your gamestyle but then I wouldn't group with you.

Your holier then thou bullshit is exactly why I stay out of "your" type of guilds.

It's cool, I'm used to talking to people who don't listen

 If you're used to talking to people that don't listen, and it seems you are, ever think maybe you ain't got nothing worth listening to?
Or better yet, why not take your own advice and /leave group