UO sucks.

[WindupAtheist]

There's absolutely no vision over there, and there hasn't been for a long time.  There is no coherent strategy.  It's simply a matter of "Hey, time for an expansion!  What do we think is cool this week?"  Whichever developer masterminds a particular clusterfuck is gone by the time the next one is due, and we end up with some other asshat going off in a completely different direction rather than building logically upon what came before.  It's like a roomful of small children trying to make up a story.

"And then, and then there were some ROBOTS!"
"Shut up Timmy, I'm talking now!  Yeah, so then some ninjas came!"
"Yeah, but the ninjas all died when they fought some elves!  Yeah!"

And when they do have a good idea, like the Third Dawn client, they just plain botch it.  God, UO3D was so bad.  So ugly, and it ran so slowly, even after they spent six months closing a really bad memory leak.  An attractive graphical overhaul could have done them so much good, but instead it was just incompetent shit.

[WayAbvPar]

Whichever developer masterminds a particular clusterfuck is gone by the time the next one is due, and we end up with some other asshat going off in a completely different direction rather than building logically upon what came before.  It's like a roomful of small children trying to make up a story.

Heh. Well spoken.

[Surlyboi]

But Elven robot ninjas are cool!

The only thing better would be lightsabers! Or maybe mutant powers like Wolverine!

[Furiously]

Who  (from the 2nd pic) would you sleep with if your life depended on it? These are the questions that try men's souls.

Well - my thought is since then both swing for the other team, only Boy George would want sex, so Rosie would be the obvious choice for sleeping with.

[Calantus]

Did you mean: delicious

Actually I meant peppermint, but your word works too.

[Signe]

Peppermint... mmmm.

Dammit.

[HaemishM]

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050607/uoelf.htm

Yeah. Just scroll down a bit (edit: and over, and... well.. god damn Japs).

I'm sure my thoughts on this wil be spelled out pretty clearly by the next few posters.

At least they aren't highlighting the elf boobies. I guess that's a plus.

Hard to highlight teh boobiez when they are only 2 pixels large.

[WindupAtheist]

But Elven robot ninjas are cool!

The only thing better would be lightsabers! Or maybe mutant powers like Wolverine!

At this very moment, in an alternate dimension where CoH outsold WoW, our goatee-having dopplegangers are staring in disbelief at screenshots of a UO avatar in neon tights casting Heat Vision at an orc.

[Azaroth]

You know, that's quite funny - and I got a kick out of it.

But I don't think the problem here is as much copying World of Warcraft, as it is asking random players for their opinions and implementing their suggestions. Having focus groups and asking a random selection of gamers what they want. They don't know, so they come up with some shit. And when one person says "elves", everyone goes "YEAH, ELVES!". "Elves?" becomes a running question and topic at the focus groups now, and invariably, everyone responds "YEAH, ELVES!".

These people haven't been playing UO since 1945. They started in May '04. These people don't understand how a mmog works, they work in retail. These people don't grasp the entire picture and have solid, practical ideas and opinions based on the current landscape of the entire UO project - they've spent the last two months trying to find Jhelom.

Focusing your efforts on elves and such because that's the highest percentage of positive reactions you got from your focus group isn't a good idea. When the fuck is the last time you bought a Big Mac because you thought the commercial with the guy and the old beat up car, with the Justin Timberlake music in the background appealed to you? Well, probably never. A bunch of 18-25 year olds putting check marks by "hip hop" and "don't have much money" doesn't make me hungry, and it sure doesn't make your shitty big macs taste any better.

It all comes back to Azaroth's Golden Rule of MMORPGs #1:

Giving players what they want is the best course of action, NOT ALWAYS.

People don't KNOW what they want. The game isn't their job. If you ask them what they want, they'll invariably respond with something that is shallow, short sighted, and benefits them personally. Or something mush-headed and ridiculous, because they don't HAVE any ideas.

It's YOUR job to create the world, make it sticky, and have enough VISION for others to follow YOU. Not t'other way round.

[Jayce]

It's YOUR job to create the world, make it sticky, and have enough VISION for others to follow YOU. Not t'other way round.

How undemocratic.  Oh, and true.

[Driakos]

I think the Elves are more a "Look we have elves too!" to help hype the expansion.  The majority of the content being added is dungeons, bosses and quests.  Not so easy to hype that.  Well you could hype that, but you can throw elves all over your webpage, or maybe pop a boob out here and there.  They did avoid the "yet another landmass to sprawl houses on" motiff this expansion, which has been proven to be a good seller.  I really do not give a squat about the elves..  Actually thinking on it, I'd rather they had done Orcs, Gargoyles, Juka, Meer, just something else, but in the end, its all just a paper-doll change, and maybe a hue thrown on the avatar.  The other new stuff looks good.

They really gotta work on the ugly and the interface, so they can put the game back on the shelves.  Needs new blood to keep going.

[WindupAtheist]

Screenshots out, and the natives are pissed!

Even the forum whores aren't taking it quietly anymore.  The sad fact is, the graphics in UO have gotten WORSE with time.

[Pococurante]

I know it's been said too many times before, but all they really need to get back on the map is the exact same game circa the first Tram/Fel split but with modern 3D graphics.  With all the money they've frittered on half-baked half-measures...

[Trippy]

Screenshots out, and the natives are pissed!

Even the forum whores aren't taking it quietly anymore.  The sad fact is, the graphics in UO have gotten WORSE with time.

Wow you are right, it's like they aren't even trying to obfuscate the tiled nature of the graphics anymore. Heck my GBA RPGs have better graphics than that.

[shiznitz]

I know it's been said too many times before, but all they really need to get back on the map is the exact same game circa the first Tram/Fel split but with modern 3D graphics.  With all the money they've frittered on half-baked half-measures...

It may have been said a lot but it is wrong. I have tried playing on a player run shard recently and the UO interface is just freaking horrible compared to what is out there now. It is just dated in every way. New graphics wouldn't help.

[Yegolev]

New graphics wouldn't hurt.  Just something on par with La Pucelle or Tales of Symphonia would prevent much disgust, there is no real need to do 3D.  Sprites that don't warp and backgrounds that don't look like Ultima VII would be pretty effective at this stage.  However, the thing that really made me uninstall it most recently was the fact that I had no idea what the fuck I was supposed to do, and since my last play experience was in early 1998 at best, I spent most of my time avoiding anyone that looked like they could kill me on a whim.  Which, of course, was everyone I met.  It is possible that I could have learned to ignore the fugliness, but some sort of three-minute primer would have helped.  Horizons gives a better newbie experience than UO.  At least I was sure I wasn't going to get ganked in Istaria.

[Jayce]

I think that maybe, too, the players have changed since 1997.  I remember the straight-up grinding I did in AC1, and bunny-killing start I got in UO, and wonder how I stuck with it.  I even LIKED AC1 enough to quit UO over it.

Especially now that WoW has raised the bar in terms of setting goals for those who don't know enough about the game to set their own goals, I'm not sure you can get by with the same open-ended virtual world that UO has anymore.  I don't think virtual worlds won't work - I just think that there needs to be something to point the player in the right direction.  A newbie experience, if you will.

So yeah, what Yegolev said.

[Yegolev]

And, yeah... what Jayce said.  I just want to clarify that I'm not looking for handholding gameplay, just something as simple as a text window saying "Hey, New Dude, get your feet wet doing this, don't go past That Tree until you understand combat, if you want to craft talk to This Guy... now go have fun in the sandbox" would be a damn huge improvement.  I'm not adverse the the general UO concepts (other than unregulated PK), but it looks and is run like a God damned abandonware title.

I'll tell you one thing that has changed with the players since 1997: there aren't any newbies anymore.  From what I can gather, the devs are having a hard time merely with retention.  Time to change tactics.

[Calandryll]

And, yeah... what Jayce said.  I just want to clarify that I'm not looking for handholding gameplay, just something as simple as a text window saying "Hey, New Dude, get your feet wet doing this, don't go past That Tree until you understand combat, if you want to craft talk to This Guy... now go have fun in the sandbox" would be a damn huge improvement.  I'm not adverse the the general UO concepts (other than unregulated PK), but it looks and is run like a God damned abandonware title.

I'll tell you one thing that has changed with the players since 1997: there aren't any newbies anymore.  From what I can gather, the devs are having a hard time merely with retention.  Time to change tactics.

There were a few attempts at a "newbie experience" in UO in the past. The problem is the more directed the newbie experience the more dependant the player becomes on direction. The moment the direction stops many players feel even more lost or feel that "the content ran out". That said, I agree a "push in the right direction" of some kind is important.

As a whole, I think we need to start defining the different kinds of MMOGs better. I don't think we can continue forward putting all of them in one global category and assuming they are all essentially the same. The player faces very different challenges when playing a "sandbox" versus playing a "game"...which means the developers must attempt account for those challenges. The reason I bring this up here is because "how directed the experience is" is (in my opinion) one of the major defining characteristics that determine what kind of MMOG one is making.

I've seen a few sites list out some ideas for categorizing MMOGs but most of them seem to fall back on the notion that "they are all basically the same." I just don't agree with that. An interesting phenomenon I've noticed is that we've seen an attempt to shift the some of the "sandbox" MMOGs towards more of a "game" MMOG but I am not sure whether that is part of a plan to change the overall style of the MMOG or just attempts to put in designs that have been successful in non-sandbox MMOGs. I do think a sandbox MMOG can be successful, I just think the developers need to realize upfront that sandboxes have unique obstacles that other kinds of MMOGs do not have. At the same time, they also have different opportunities too. This might be a different topic though so I'll drop this so I don't hijack the thread.

[Yegolev]

I think you are partially right in that MOGs could be different.  In my experience, they end up being terribly similar at the core due to the immutability of the underlying MUD gameplay.  The things that you do to interact with the loot-grind change, but not the beast itself.  UO is a great example in that I approached the game as a simulated world, or sandbox.  I went in with the intention of playing the game my way and interacting with players who were doing their own thing, exploring the world and having fun.  Turns out that a lot of people stayed up really late in December 1997 while I went to bed with my then-fiance.  These people also seemed to enjoy making other people miserable.  Playing once a week wasn't conducive to anything in UO.  It wasn't long before my trips outside town were rewarded with gankings from black-clad, bone-helmeted, spell-weaving PKs.  It's a lot like Tarren Mill when you look at it like that, from behind a grey "you're dead" screen.  There are differences, of course, between UO and WoW, but there are some big-ass similarities, too.  Achievers win, catasses moreso.  So let it be written, so let it be done.

I can't believe I'm still mad about some stupid shit that happened over seven years ago.  Maybe because the same shit really happened in the past few months in WoW.

To keep this somewhat on-track with the topic of UO sucking a donkey dick, I have not been lead to believe that UO has changed signficantly in the core game since 1997.  In fact, 2005 seems to be the year that they stop being a source for inspiration and start feeding off of newer games in some sort of amphisboena of stupidity.

[Calantus]

I they wanted to "save" UO they'd have to do a few things first:

- Upgrade the graphics. I can stand them, but there are too many out there who cannot. Also, have ONE client. Kill 2d or 3d, and only support that. 2 clients makes it confusing and I imagine it makes updating the game that much more annoying.
- Make the UI about 10x more intuitive and useful. Nobody should even THINK of buying UOAssist and the map mod. There are other ways at can be improved but start there (ALSO, why is it that the 3d client and the 2d client store things in containers differently? You can always tell when a shop owner uses 3d because ALL THEIR ITEMS ARE STACKED ON EACHOTHER BECAUSE OF THE DISPARITY).
- Make skillups come ALOT faster, and obsolete 8x8 (I swear to god, I will not ever make a "forward one" macro again in my life). That was ok back when everyone was a newbie and the genre was fresh. It is not ok now that everyone has 7xGM (and better, damn power scrolls) and there is so much competition.
- Make death more pleasant... for instance, an indicator on where the closest goddamn NPC that can ress you happens to be would be a nice start.
- Make available ALL vet rewards that improve gameplay to everyone, make all future rewards aethsetic only. Having vets running around with +skill/stat scrolls, horses that never die, and dye tubs that greatly improve the saleability of their items is just not good for a game that wants to attract new players.
- Make the newbie experience more intuitive. I had a friend try it about a year ago and he got to a point where he simply turned the game off until I could come over and show him the ropes almost a week later. If he didn't have me (he wouldn't have even tried it, but I digress) he would simply have given up on the game.
- Do something about urban sprawl... and I don't mean more land. I mean come up with a way to contain the sprawl or move it away from spawns, etc. Everytime I came back I was always shocked and dismayed by the urban sprawl.
- Do something about the current itemisation. It is way way too hard on a new player. Out of all the item drops you get, maybe 0.01 are truly good, and most of those will die when you try to enhance them. That is crazy. Make the disparity on intensity smaller, and weight certain combinations. Get rid of enhancing, or make it 100%. I shouldn't have to gamble the safety of my stupidly rare drop in order make it as good as it can be. Making artifacts easier to get and not needing luck gear at all would be nice also.
- The blessing system is stupid. Seriously, the money is a non-factor to established player and HELL on the new player. Get rid of the entirely IMO, free and automatic blessing for every item. The day of the corpse run should be long gone in Trammel.
- Implement some kind of Bazaar or Auction because it gets uber lame shopping these days in UO. Before you'd hit your favourite shops for things, but what you want now are very specific drops that will be spread out over many many shops. No shop can possibly hope to supply you with everything you need. One time I had to quit looking for resist rings because my mouse hand froze up from hovering over every goddamn ring in every goddamn shop all over trammel and mallas.

Additional Suggestion:

- Remove Fellucia, make a Fellucian shard and let people transfer there (and no, siege is not a viable alternative). Make sure factions work in this server. Seriously, I gave up on playing Fel because there's not enough action. Putting the feluccians all together would solve that.
EDIT: Remove weight from gold, it really is annoying and unnecessary IMO.


Those IMO are the core problems UO has now. Doesn't matter though, if people think elves are going to do anything for UO they sure aren't looking at core problems.

[HaemishM]

Screenshots out, and the natives are pissed!

Even the forum whores aren't taking it quietly anymore.  The sad fact is, the graphics in UO have gotten WORSE with time.

Holy Monkey Ass, Batman!

[Shockeye]

Screenshots out, and the natives are pissed!

Even the forum whores aren't taking it quietly anymore.  The sad fact is, the graphics in UO have gotten WORSE with time.

Holy Monkey Ass, Batman!

Can they slap another coat of ugly on that?

[WindupAtheist]

I'll tell you one thing that has changed with the players since 1997: there aren't any newbies anymore.  From what I can gather, the devs are having a hard time merely with retention.  Time to change tactics.

My guild has more people who've played less than four months than it has people who've played more.  Only problem is they're already getting bored, and so many old vets are gone.

I they wanted to "save" UO they'd have to do a few things first:

- Upgrade the graphics. I can stand them, but there are too many out there who cannot.

Tried and failed with UO3D.  There have been persistent rumors of a new upgraded client for at least a year now, but I'm no longer listening.  Even if it were once on the table, EA probably sent it off to join UO:WOOT (or whatever) in the development graveyard.

- Make the UI about 10x more intuitive and useful. Nobody should even THINK of buying UOAssist and the map mod.

Indeed.  Having people buy an upgraded interface from a third party is just inexcusable.  Furthermore, people who want to compete without paying extra tend to gravitate toward EasyUO, which may be illegal but is also FREE.

- Make skillups come ALOT faster, and obsolete 8x8

May as well.  I'd bet money that well over 50% of the playerbase is scripting now anyway.  I've met newbs playing their third day who are already GM mages, because vets are tossing LRC suits and EasyUO links to everyone with a young player tag.

- Do something about the current itemisation. It is way way too hard on a new player. Out of all the item drops you get, maybe 0.01 are truly good, and most of those will die when you try to enhance them. That is crazy. Make the disparity on intensity smaller, and weight certain combinations. Get rid of enhancing, or make it 100%. I shouldn't have to gamble the safety of my stupidly rare drop in order make it as good as it can be. Making artifacts easier to get and not needing luck gear at all would be nice also.

This is the one thing on this list they're doing.  Everyone in the game is decked out in the new Tokuno artifacts, and the devs have stated their intention of changing the drop system in Doom, of making arti-level items craftable, etc.

- The blessing system is stupid. Seriously, the money is a non-factor to established player and HELL on the new player. Get rid of the entirely IMO, free and automatic blessing for every item. The day of the corpse run should be long gone in Trammel.

Yeah.  Just poof people to the nearest town healer or whatever, maybe with some rez sickness.

- Implement some kind of Bazaar or Auction because it gets uber lame shopping these days in UO. Before you'd hit your favourite shops for things, but what you want now are very specific drops that will be spread out over many many shops. No shop can possibly hope to supply you with everything you need. One time I had to quit looking for resist rings because my mouse hand froze up from hovering over every goddamn ring in every goddamn shop all over trammel and mallas.

This is something that was talked about, but with devs leaving left and right, we know we're never gonna see it.

- Remove Fellucia, make a Fellucian shard and let people transfer there (and no, siege is not a viable alternative). Make sure factions work in this server. Seriously, I gave up on playing Fel because there's not enough action. Putting the feluccians all together would solve that.

Expect much screaming from the professional powerscroll Ebay cartels.. er... I mean PVP guilds.

[Yegolev]

I think you should stop refering to new players with elite guild buddies as "newbies".  They sound more like a twink variant.  What would you call someone (not to name any names) who installed UO last fall using the original retail CDROM they got as a Christmas present in 1997?  Besides "hacker" because that's a good description of getting that thing to patch up.  Stupid?  Apparently my problem was that I didn't know someone already playing, but I submit that this only proves my point.  If UO is going to get new people playing, they need to make it a little easier to get some traction.

I can't believe I'm fucking posting about God-damned UO.  Eat me, world!

[HaemishM]

But see, EA has pretty much already admitted that UO is on life support in North America, and any new or serious profit is going to come from the Asian market. And Asians still like Lineage and its derivatives, which are just level treadmill variants of UO.