Because you need another damned CoH impression

[Venkman]

I was going to reformat this to make it a post here, but I didn't want to embed so many images, considering some link other places. On the off chance you're interested in reading yet another positive take on CoH, and yet another "what does it mean" rant, head on over:

Finally, an MMOG that needs no apology

[Alluvian]

Well, you might have to apologize that it is combat only.  Which turns out to be a plus to those who like the combat.  It won't be for everyone.  That old niche word again.

I find I mostly apologize for the ingame name for guild.  Most people at best giggle when they hear "supergroup".  Ingame it works because of the huge camp value to everything.  But it is hard to say out of context.

[kaid]

BUT BUT BUT alluvian we are SSSUPER so we need to be in a SSSupergroup but thanks for asking.


Kaid

[schild]

Should we change the name of "Bat Country" to "This is a Guild kkthx?"

[Alluvian]

It's tempting.

Better than "Champions of honor and Lightness" or whatever that group I saw the other day was called.  We could pick "The fudgepackers" and be safely less gay than that.  Even though I think using gay as a derogatory term is pretty gay.

[kaid]

My vote was for the Prancing Protectors but nobody ever listens to me.

Kaid

[Signe]

I tried to read it, I really did.  Unfortunately, I couldn't keep my eyes off of that strange dildo shaped device in the upper left corner.  I refreshed and it went away, but I can't stop thinking about it.

[Fargull]

Nice write up!

[Venkman]

Thanks!

I actually like Bat Country. Dunno why. It resonates, or something. And yea, I don't call us a SuperGroup. Gay, ghey and gä.

I tried to read it, I really did.  Unfortunately, I couldn't keep my eyes off of that strange dildo shaped device in the upper left corner.  I refreshed and it went away, but I can't stop thinking about it.

Heh, yea, our graphics folk has been messing with things of late.

[SurfD]

My favourite Super Hero group name came from a campaign in Heroes Unlimited PnP game.  The team was known as the S.H.I.T....

Super Heroic Intervention Team

hehe.

[schild]

My favourite Super Hero group name came from a campaign in Heroes Unlimited PnP game.  The team was known as the S.H.I.T....

Super Heroic Intervention Team

hehe.

It's the simple things, eh?

[The Hanged Man]

I was in the beta and I played a lot with two testers who had been Doctors during the SWG beta. I made it up 21 levels in 2 weeks of play using common sense with my defender with Storm and Dark . Here are some additional points


Why Lag sucks more than usual - The game has an XP debt for dying. After you go in debt half your experience goes to pay it off and your grind gets even slower

I can do play solo - Yeah but you level much much slower. If you group with 5 others all six of you get xp for each kill. So if 6 solo players kill 10 villains each they each get 10 villains worth of XP. If a team of 6 kill 10 villains each they each get 60 villains worth of XP.

Unique villains and expected ones - There was an evil Eskimo style villain group that is in a zone that looks like something from a Steven King Novel. There is also an oriental group of martial arts as well as a group of Nazi types. So the game has both the expected stereotypes as well as some interesting and unique characters

Replay Value - There are 5 sets of storyline based on the origin types. So if you play the Mutant based missions from level 5-7 then your next character can play the Techno missions from level  5-7. You aren't stuck in one zone whacking Rats

Tards - Yes there are. Worst thing someone can do regularly is kill steal. Its hard to say how bad the release will be because you never know what the online vermin will find to exploit

Making characters - I made a Hillbilly, Orc, Drow, Female with insect looks, tiny demon, and several military style characters. Seemed to be very good

Cool Powers - there is one power that generates a thunderstorm that looks good. The rain powers looked good and so did whirlwind. Even the taunt was kind of cool

I screwed up my character design - Oops you are screwed. There is no redo on your powers or enhancements. So if you create The Forum Flamer and his powers turn out to be poor you can tough it out or start over.

Missions - the missions seemed to offer more variety than other games . However you can still just group and camp out spawn areas if you want

Names - In the beta I saw The Mental Midget, Cowthulhu, Punchin Judy and a bunch of amusing names. There were also people with no imagination who

Best Feeling - a group group of heros can maul opponents who are 2 levels higher in nothing flat. Good gameplay and character design seem to be rewarded

First thing I would tell someone playing from WTO - get movement powers early. Many missions require travel between zones. Walking is slow and dangerous

The one thing you will hate - Death and XP Debt. As you get higher level the leveling slows down a lot. XP debt makes it even worse.

The one thing you will love - the first group of villains you rip a new ahem with your characters powers. Each villain group has vulnerabilities so you may pwn the Hellions while the Clockwork will go orange on you.

Fun thing to do - Bowling for Nazis - There are several powers that do damage and knockback in an area of effect, You can find packed groups of 5th column and use those attacks to knock over as many as possible

Events = Lag

[Venkman]

I can do play solo - Yeah but you level much much slower. If you group with 5 others all six of you get xp for each kill. So if 6 solo players kill 10 villains each they each get 10 villains worth of XP. If a team of 6 kill 10 villains each they each get 60 villains worth of XP.

This is my favorite XP distribution system though, which is why it doesn't bother me :) SB was close enough to this that the differences don't matter. Though, of course, SB isn't about PvE.

Additionally, some archetypes solo much better than others. No surprise here of course. At least in the early game, my Blaster and Scrapper could solo one and sometimes two levels above themselves. +End and +Accuracy were requirements though, with the Build-up-esque powers making or breaking the encounters.

In any case, it's a far cry better than games like EQ or SWG that basically screw you for grouping. When I could swarm kite indefinitely (until the updated Bard charm) and rake in more XP in an hour than I could with a few days of grouping, that says something for an XP distribution model, particularly in a massive multiplayer game.

Otherwise, I completely agree with you on everything else :)

[Mesozoic]

Maybe I'm alone on this, but playing a spandex-wearing Extraordinary Man crosses some kind of barely perceivable geek line that I'm not going near.  For some reason, playing a Halfing Druid is fine, tho.

[Jon Carver]

Maybe I'm alone on this, but playing a spandex-wearing Extraordinary Man crosses some kind of barely perceivable geek line that I'm not going near.  For some reason, playing a Halfing Druid is fine, tho.

There are plenty of non-spandex costume choices available.

What struck me about this game is how well it seemed to fit that ever elusive casual gamer.  You can log in, bowl for thugs, take a mission, log out, then come back and do it again with no feeling of "gotta do one more." Just a damned enjoyable time while you're online no matter how much time you have to kill.  Makes a damn fine casual play MMOG.

[Mesozoic]

There are plenty of non-spandex costume choices available.

I'm actually referring to the whole genre, not the actual form-fitting leotards.

[Venkman]

crosses some kind of barely perceivable geek line that I'm not going near.  For some reason, playing a Halfing Druid is fine, tho.

You're here at all.

[Fargull]

Without starting another thread, I figured I would pose a question and then toss my thoughts on it about COH.

King's Row and King's Row2 : Breaking the persistant world?

As with a lot of COH, this was the first instance that I truely felt broke the Persistant window that seems to have been setup by UO, EQ, DAOC, AC... yadda yadda...  Multiple Zones for load balancing the servers.  I, for one, do not mind the fact that having to select which zone instance.  I certainly removes one of the veils of preceived persistance, but it loosens the lag (at least in theory).  I wonder again if this is not another good step, similar to the Sidekick system, though not as revolutionary.  But it allows for the FUN and not the SUCK.

[Venkman]

I've generally been opposed to Instancing because I felt it broke up a community too much. So many players prefer to avoid the social stuff that sometimes they need to be compelled to meet others.

However, having seen how well it works in EQLive, and the way it really increases the playability of CoH, I'm willing to concede I was quick to judge, and judged poorly  :)

There's only two things I wish CoH had in relation to this (I've got many wishes ;) ):
[list=1][*]A meta-broadcast channel that covered all instances of all zones
[*]A way to create even just one more chat window.[/list:o]
As it is, I've already had to turn off the damage chat span, and I've tried to play even without the System Messages.

[Mesozoic]

crosses some kind of barely perceivable geek line that I'm not going near.  For some reason, playing a Halfing Druid is fine, tho.

You're here at all.

Que?

[HaemishM]

A meta-broadcast channel that covered all instances of all zones

Oh please God no. No no no. While I haven't been as bothered by the stupid in CoH as much as other games, I do not want to give Johnny ToucheshisNutz the ability to come into my living room with whatever inanity he can think of in his spastic moments of Tourette's Syndrome seizures. I think there are more than enough ways to find people and congregate for those not already ensconced in a social circle or supergroup.

I've also turned off the damage and power recharge spam, and I don't miss it one bit.

[Valmorian]

Maybe I'm alone on this, but playing a spandex-wearing Extraordinary Man crosses some kind of barely perceivable geek line that I'm not going near.  For some reason, playing a Halfing Druid is fine, tho.

Heh, don't make the mistake thinking that this is anything other than personal preference.  After all, Fantasy characters are just superheroes in a world with elves, faeries and magic!

[Venkman]

Oh please God no. No no no.

Heh. /Request, /Broadcast or /Metabroadcast, are all shades of the same thing. The only way to avoid asshats is to turn those channels off too.

Which, believe me, I've been tempted to do... and suspect will do come Wednesday.

But it was just a thought to help the raw newbs. Maybe the current channels are enough, and it takes exactly one mistaken choice at the subway terminal to realize that yes, you do choose between different instances of Atlas Park.

[Train Wreck]

My vote was for the Prancing Protectors but nobody ever listens to me.

Kaid

I'm partial to SuperFunk.  Simple, yet elegant.

[Soukyan]

I've also turned off the damage and power recharge spam, and I don't miss it one bit.

Look! A game that allows you to remove the numbers, as it were. Okay, yeah, the numbers fly above their head to show the damage you did, but this was a major goal of AC2 and their damage system. Show damage numbers above the head and show a graphical indication (CoH does not do this) of damage on the NPC model in order to do away with staring at a chat box with stats flying by. It appears that in CoH, this works because of the numbers above the head for damage and the health bar for the NPC right above its head. That makes three of us now who play without damage messages in our chat boxes. Nice, nice, nice.

[Venkman]

Souk, you know the HP and END bars of all NPCs and PCs are displayed by default on mouseover and mouseclick right?

Additionally, CoH does a far better job than AC2 of rendering what an NPC might be afflicted with at any given time. I've seen an NPC with a Fire DoT, caught in a Fire Root, an Ice Root, suffering from some acidic DoT I don't recognize as well as react to a DD. All at the same time, and without confusion. Spells were obviously created to interact with each other very well.

I'd turn off the floating numbers too if I could. I need that HP and END bar, and the above spells and that's it. Can't think of a game in this genre where I could so safely ignore the chatlog. Very FPSish.

[Soukyan]

Souk, you know the HP and END bars of all NPCs and PCs are displayed by default on mouseover and mouseclick right?

Additionally, CoH does a far better job than AC2 of rendering what an NPC might be afflicted with at any given time. I've seen an NPC with a Fire DoT, caught in a Fire Root, an Ice Root, suffering from some acidic DoT I don't recognize as well as react to a DD. All at the same time, and without confusion. Spells were obviously created to interact with each other very well.

I'd turn off the floating numbers too if I could. I need that HP and END bar, and the above spells and that's it. Can't think of a game in this genre where I could so safely ignore the chatlog. Very FPSish.

Yes, I know about on mouseover and mouse click as well. I agree that the spell effects are very defined (and very cool besides) so you can tell at any glance what is affecting the mob. I meant that AC2 actually shows varying degrees of bloodiness and cuts on a mob as you whittle down its health and you could technically do away with the health bar then, too. Although in CoH this might not be the best thing as it'd be hard to see through all those spell effects, but that's what I meant with the AC2 thing.

[Venkman]

Ah ok, I get it now. I actually didn't know AC2 did that. Has it always (I quit just after launch)? I agree that it probably wouldn't be the best for CoH. Perhaps it's telling that no other game has tried this. Maybe more people are playing third-person than first, and therefore too zoomed out to notice such minute details?

[El Gallo]

I screwed up my character design - Oops you are screwed. There is no redo on your powers or enhancements. So if you create The Forum Flamer and his powers turn out to be poor you can tough it out or start over.

That's pretty shitty design.  Welcome to balance hell.  Think AC1 (though I can only assume that the base balance is about 37 million times better than AC1 because CoH was not designed by coked-up monkeys).
Presumably, they'll change it and add some sort of respec option, since there is roughly a 0% chance of balancing all the skill combos even decently.

I am glad to hear people are excited about the game.  I can't get into the superhero genre myself, but more $ to the industry is more $ to the industry.

[Soukyan]

Ah ok, I get it now. I actually didn't know AC2 did that. Has it always (I quit just after launch)? I agree that it probably wouldn't be the best for CoH. Perhaps it's telling that no other game has tried this. Maybe more people are playing third-person than first, and therefore too zoomed out to notice such minute details?

Yes, that feature was in beta and straight through release to this day. It was actually very noticable in third person view, which is how I always played the game. True, first person perspective is probably more character immersive, but until I can actually have peripheral vision as that character, I prefer the third person perspective. But I digress. I don't know that it's telling that no other game tried it. I'm actually disappointed that no others have because it, like CoH, allowed me to concentrate on the graphics and the action (especially combined with TeamSpeak for communication since I used it for both) and not have to worry about the numbers and crap spamming through the chat window.

[Alluvian]

I screwed up my character design - Oops you are screwed. There is no redo on your powers or enhancements. So if you create The Forum Flamer and his powers turn out to be poor you can tough it out or start over.

That's pretty shitty design.  Welcome to balance hell.  Think AC1 (though I can only assume that the base balance is about 37 million times better than AC1 because CoH was not designed by coked-up monkeys).
Presumably, they'll change it and add some sort of respec option, since there is roughly a 0% chance of balancing all the skill combos even decently.

I am glad to hear people are excited about the game.  I can't get into the superhero genre myself, but more $ to the industry is more $ to the industry.

You CANNOT make a useless character at character generation.  You can make a character you don't LIKE, but you can do that in ANY of these games (SWG and UO let you change everything except the race/sex).  It is the same as pickng the 'wrong' class in EQ or DAOC, or ac2, or any of these games.  It isn't 'wrong' it is just not something you might like.  And at least you can find out pretty early, due to VERY fast initial leveling, if the powersets you picked are fun to you.

Repsecs are coming to the game, but I suspect it will be for swapping powers only.  MAYBE enhancement slots, but I doubt you will be able to swap primary or secondary powersets.

[Venkman]

I haven't played nearly enough CoH to know if there's a basically "broken" template combination or not. I can say that a look through all templates though can easily lead players to making bad decisions. Like, putting a Fighting Power Pool on a Fire Blaster probably isn't the best idea. By the time the character's in their teens, they simply don't have the hit points to go toe-to-toe with anything, and the Fighting Power Pool is melee combat stuff.

Additionally, players can only choose one new power every two levels. That's it. If a player makes a mistake, they live with it for two levels until they hopefully unlock something that can make up for it, or they re-roll.

As with all such linear character advancement models, obviously it's best to do a lot of research up front or, failing that, make your mistakes early.

So yes, the lack of respeccing is a problem. Players will experiment. They will make mistakes, particularly those who don't scour the forums or fansites or who weren't in the beta. They'll either reroll or accept a certain amount of gimpage.

Personally, I'd be happy if every two levels players could not only learn a new power, but they could also choose one power to forget. That alone would make a world of difference. Even though most archetypes don't come into their own until the teens or 20s, there's a fair chance players will know how much they enjoy a character well before then. So undoing one or two minor mistakes won't totally break the game.

[Fargull]

Personally, I'd be happy if every two levels players could not only learn a new power, but they could also choose one power to forget. That alone would make a world of difference. Even though most archetypes don't come into their own until the teens or 20s, there's a fair chance players will know how much they enjoy a character well before then. So undoing one or two minor mistakes won't totally break the game.

Crap Darniaq, you should suggest that.

Not that I think every other level it being possible, but hell, even on every forth level or every 10th it would be cool.  Would allow some great flexability.

I have made one bad decision so far in my Fire/Fire Blaster build, but then it really is not a mistake, just does not fit a Blaster well, I took the leadership damage add power, but I go through my endurance so fast the damn thing drops like a rock almost every fight.

[Alluvian]

Fargull, many of the endurance drain powers don't come into their own until later when you can socket dual and single origin endurance reducers to them.  They are very hard to use at low levels, but that will not always be the case.  Plus the drain is constant and you get more endurance as you level I believe.

[Fargull]

Alluvian,

Yepper.  Kinda got that figured.  An option to move it to hasten would have been cool though.. course, then I am dumping endurance faster, but able to punch that damage out the Yass.