Mage spec talk?

[Fabricated]

I never play caster classes in MMOGs, but I figured I'd give the WoW mage a shot.

So, general advice, class specific bugs, etc?

The only two things I've noted so far is that Arcane Missile behaves oddly, and the mentioned Frost Nova teleportation bug.

[SurfD]

11 Arcane, 40 fire here (yeah, i know, i know)

Spec at very least 11 points into Arcane when you can.  Evocation is awesome, and can be a lifesaver in instances when a pull goes bad and you are nearly out of mana. And non interuptable Arcane Missiles are basicly a mages mele attack.

Fire is nice for damage / PVE, but chances are if you go Fire for PvP you will want at least enough Arcane to get PoM for the insta cast Pyroblast, and probably just go all the way Arcane for the massive front loaded damage bursts most fire mages PvP with.
Immolate is a must for fire builds, probably get a few points into impact also. Other talents are largely a matter of preference and how far along the fire tree you want to go..

Arcane is somewhat a preference thing and largely depends on if you are Fire or Ice.  I have managed to get by without instacast Arcane Explosion (also teaches you a bit more about tactics and positioning when you have to think about where to drop your AoE's instead of just jump spamming like an idiot), but I am beginning to regret missing out on Improved counterspell. 

Havent played Ice, but it is a very nice PvP spec, what with the talent that lets you instantly refresh all cast timers, a bit better mana efficiency then Fire, and the Icebarrier / iceblock for better damage mitigation.  Not sure how bad the diminishing returns slow effects nerf hurt, but chances are most fights will be over before enemies become immune to your slows.

[Amp]

I'll get into a longer post later (gonna go play atm) but if you're starting a mage, I thought you might like to see this video.

Mage video

This is why they added DR to frost nova, doesn't help with AE though.

[Calantus]

The best way to level up a mage is to use the sequence fireball->fireball->fireball->FN and run away->fireball(->fireball->scorch til dead). You mix it up with fireblast if you want the mob dead NOW when you get it low, or use (improved) arcane missiles if the mob resisted your FN and you need it dead ASAP and it's HP is not in fireblast range. So for leveling you definately want improved fireball and flamethrowing to make the combo possible. After that there are two ways you can go IMO, either you climb the fire free to improve your fire damage with or without grabbing improved arcane missiles before you do (make sure to get burning soul if you do, helps quite a bit), or you can go into the arcane tree for better instance abilities. Every instance after and including gnomeregan wants improved arcane explosion and I honestly think you would be doing yourself and your group a disservice not to get it if you are going to run them. My favourite progression is:

- Improved Fireball 5/5
- Flame Throwing 2/2
- Improved Arcane Missiles 5/5
- Arcane Concentration 5/5
- Improved Arcane Explosion 5/5
- Improved Counterspell 2/2 (rocks in pvp and great for pulling spellcasters to your group in instances)
- Evocation 1/1

I've had a few mages (I keep wanting to make them but then delete them when I get frustrated at not being a healer... one day I'll just leave my mage when I get sick of em and come back later but Im obsessive about having a clean roster), and this is by far my favourite progression. Those first few fire talents are the best bang for your buck early on, and the arcane talents are necessary (IMO) for instances. Can't help you with endgame specs 'cause I've never been there. :P

Also, unless you simply must be a frost mage it's much better to start off as fire and respec to ice later apparently. I don't know about the respecc, but I do know that early frost didnt thrill me.

[SurfD]

from personal experience, every instance encounter is Very easily done without the need for IAE.  IAE is the lazy mage's way out. I refused to get shoehorned into the IAE spammer role, and quite frankly have never seen a need.  Any half way decent player can get by in any instance with out needing to resort to IAE spam to take down groups. (I have done 5 man Baron runs as the only AoE and sailed through it, so it isnt hard)

Tank taunts to gather them up - Flamestrike + Cone of Cold + (Combustion + Blastwave) + Flamestrike + frost nova + reposition and Cone of cold again, and if it isnt dead you are doing something pretty wrong.

[Fabricated]

The best way to level up a mage is to use the sequence fireball->fireball->fireball->FN and run away->fireball(->fireball->scorch til dead). You mix it up with fireblast if you want the mob dead NOW when you get it low, or use (improved) arcane missiles if the mob resisted your FN and you need it dead ASAP and it's HP is not in fireblast range. So for leveling you definately want improved fireball and flamethrowing to make the combo possible. After that there are two ways you can go IMO, either you climb the fire free to improve your fire damage with or without grabbing improved arcane missiles before you do (make sure to get burning soul if you do, helps quite a bit), or you can go into the arcane tree for better instance abilities. Every instance after and including gnomeregan wants improved arcane explosion and I honestly think you would be doing yourself and your group a disservice not to get it if you are going to run them. My favourite progression is:

To be honest I looked at the frost line and wasn't blown away. I'm more interested in being a PvE mage than a solo PvP mage.

Right now I tend to start off with a frostbolt, and THEN spam fireball/arcane missiles/fire blast until it dies. Frostbolt has a shorter range than fireball, but for right now (level 11) I've found I can get more nuking in before the enemy gets to me if I frostbolt it first. Frost Nova is a great panic button...when it works properly. I've had a few enemies magically (irony, lawl) teleport to me after using it.

[Daydreamer]

Right now I tend to start off with a frostbolt, and THEN spam fireball/arcane missiles/fire blast until it dies. Frostbolt has a shorter range than fireball, but for right now (level 11) I've found I can get more nuking in before the enemy gets to me if I frostbolt it first. Frost Nova is a great panic button...when it works properly. I've had a few enemies magically (irony, lawl) teleport to me after using it.

Too think I quit in late December because I felt Mages couldn't compete at high levels with Rogues/Hunters vieing for the coveted DPS/Util slot, and now this.  Why is it that blizzard always manages to breack my favorite class or race in every one of their games?

[Morfiend]

It really depends on what you want to do with your mage. My best friend online (been gaming with him for 11 years now) is a mage, and pretty much always is a mage in any mmog. So what Im saying is not first hand, but fairly reliable.

First, are you PVPing or PVEing? Next, do you want to mana dump people for pure DPS or do you want a bit more utility?

One of the major PVP specs is Fire, with enough arcane to get presence of mind. Thats a decent build, and the most common build. That is your mana dump dps build.

My mage friend after playing around on the test servers with battlegrounds, has just respecced from the above build, into what he calls his Scorch build. Im not exactually sure what this is, but he feels it will be a lot better for mass pvp.

Another way to go is frost mage. They do quite a lot less DPS, but they have some great large scale pvp utility abilities. Like being able to root people with their AEs (not frost nova) and also getting the ice block. It is a common missunderstanding that ice mages suck. It was really funny, one of the first ice mages on our server was always mocked for being frost spec, a common encounter with him went like this.

"Haha, here come Justyn  the ice mage. stupid noob, doesnt he know ice mages suck?" Fighting ensues..... "damn im dead, thats ok, Justyn still sucks cause hes an ice mage"

[Calantus]

IAE is easy and everyone has been in groups where a mage has done it. Personally I like the easy way because easy is good. I never got people saying "I don't want to be X" because I use what works. If you don't want to spam IAE thats fine but realise that while you're dicking about with FS and CoC you could have just been standing there spamming a button for the same effect.

As for frost bolt as a starter... yeah I do that @ ~lvl 10 sometimes, it's also efficent to use whatever spell is your most recent out of either frostbolt or fireball. Once you get the talents tho you don't gain anything from the frost bolt (due to range) and you don't screw your combo if the first spell is resisted.

[Luxor]

Right now im 40/11 Frost/Arcane build and really enjoying it. PvE solo I can kill most things before they get to me, Group/Raid im normally highest damage dealer and mass PvP i'm feared by the other side. Solo PvP I would say would be my weakest point.

The thing about frost compared to fire is there are no obvious must-have talents, they all layer on top of each other. So your improved Blizzard slows down the mob running at you while frostbite increases the chance of rooting them in the blizzard. You can then use improved cone of cold to do extra damage with shatter increasing the chance of critting, causing you to do double damage because you have ice shards.Its always nice to do 1k+ damage to multiple targets while slowing them to 35% speed.

Blizzard also replaces IAE as the AE of choice in any instance. IAE has the downside of having to be very close to the target mobs to do damage so you quite often get hit, blizzard you are standing 35+ yards away and with all your frost talents theres hee-haw chance of mobs getting to you before they are dead.

Mass PvP on my server consists of x-roads/tarren mill standoffs where a frostbolt with frost talents behind it can bugger up someones day pretty quickly. Try running back to your lines at 35% speed while ranged characters are sniping you or you are caught and rooted in a blizzard, you'll be dead in no time.

This is all for a 60 mage though. I would definately go the arcane/fire to level up with because frost doesnt come into its own until you have a lot of points in it

[Train Wreck]

Looks like I'm one of the few Frost Mages here.  I don't remember the frost-line talents' names and can't look them up right now, but here's the highlights:

15% chance of any frost spell freezing an enemy in place, including getting struck while Ice Armor is active, which is *very* nice.
+50% chance of getting a critical strike on a frozen enemy.
Frost Shield absorbs more damage than mana shield and drains no additional mana.  It only has a 2 minute cool-down.
Ice Block makes you invicible for 10 seconds.  Kind of useless when you're soloing, but works great in a group.
Cold snap instantly refreshes all Frost magic.  If I need to, I can get 20 seconds of invicibility and/or a Frost Shield that absorbs twice the damage, every 10 minutes.

The rest of my points are in fire magic.  Stunning Scorches are nice to have.

[WayAbvPar]

Stunning Scorches are nice to have.

I have heard you can pick up a case of the Stunning Scorches pretty easily by visiting the right 3rd world hookers.

[Slayerik]

I prefer my mages have IAoE ... just so much better.

[Train Wreck]

I prefer my mages have IAoE ... just so much better.

How many points in Arcane does that require?  I'll have 10 more coming my way after I get Pyroblast.  If that's not enough, I might skip it.  Is Pyroblast worth it?

[Amp]

Hmmm...more then 10 are needed I think it's more like 15.  I know it's deeper in the tree but i'm not logged in to check.
But you need it.  I don't care what mages say they get by without it.  Sure you can get by without it but why would you.  It makes life much easier in instances.

I was considering dropping Ice barrier, being dispellable with a low mana spammable instant cast and all.  (fuck is that a stupid bug)  In it's place I was gonna take PoM.  I watched some Korean frost mage video and the guy has spec'd in  PoM instead of Ice barrier and he's kicking the crap out of multiples.  It's gonna gimp me in instances though.  I depend on that shield quite abit.


I've played frost from the start.  You get less damage, and you don't get any cool talents till a little bit into the tree but ifire mages can't kill me, and everyone is a fire mage so...
Actually I went arcane before I went frost.  But I was a young and silly mage.  I thought arcane missles were the shitz.
I was wrong.

[Train Wreck]

I was considering dropping Ice barrier, being dispellable with a low mana spammable instant cast and all.  (fuck is that a stupid bug)  In it's place I was gonna take PoM.  I watched some Korean frost mage video and the guy has spec'd in  PoM instead of Ice barrier and he's kicking the crap out of multiples.  It's gonna gimp me in instances though.  I depend on that shield quite abit.

Is that really a bug, or does Blizzard intend for a 31 talent buff to be dispellable?  And what's PoM?

I'm reluctant to drop Frost Shield.  My guild's Fire Mages get killed at least 5 times more often than I do inside instances, including the ones 10+ levels higher than me.

[Slayerik]

PoM = Presence of Mind = Instant cast any spell, cooldown 5 min i think

Very nice ability, especially in PVP teamed with pyroblast

[Luxor]

But you need it.  I don't care what mages say they get by without it.  Sure you can get by without it but why would you.  It makes life much easier in instances

For fire and arcane mages aye. For frost mages Blizzard dumps all over IAE from a great height

[Amp]

Blizzard is channeled.  You won't be getting more then a wave or 2 off in a real fight and you will lose the mana as if you cast a full spell.  Blizzard is more useful in PvE, and only has it's moments in PvP.   And only in massive raids where you can hide amongst the other toons.

Is that really a bug, or does Blizzard intend for a 31 talent buff to be dispellable?

I'd like to think it was overlooked.  But so long as we keep calling it a bug, maybe it will get fixed one day.

Purge is far FAR to overpowered.  It's a bit of a joke at all lvl's now that i'm noticing with my 36 druid (already noticed with my mage).  If you remove a 500 mana buff, it should remove 500 mana from the shaman.  Let's make this purge take a little skill to use.  If you want to take down my 800hp shield, you should lose 800 hps for doing so. 
Make you think twice about spamming the hell out of that button.

Druids are so much fun but you CANNOT gank with them.

[Rasix]

Purge is far FAR to overpowered.  It's a bit of a joke at all lvl's now that i'm noticing with my 36 druid (already noticed with my mage).  If you remove a 500 mana buff, it should remove 500 mana from the shaman.  Let's make this purge take a little skill to use.  If you want to take down my 800hp shield, you should lose 800 hps for doing so.
Make you think twice about spamming the hell out of that button.

Find a way to screw over cleanse or the priest debuff cleaners and I'd halfway consider that.  Sorry, you don't correct a spell by making it fucking useless.   No shaman in their right mind would use it in that situation.  There is just some stuff it probably shouldn't work on, like talents that cost huge amount of points to get to.  Everything else is fair game.  Double the mana cost would probably be an option too.

Honestly, they should probably just replace purge with cleanse.  That would shaman another thing to do on raids, quell some of the "Alliance is easy mode" bitching, and squash all of the incessant nerf talks.

[Train Wreck]

Blizzard is channeled.  You won't be getting more then a wave or 2 off in a real fight and you will lose the mana as if you cast a full spell.

That's when Frost Shield (or mana shield if it is down) comes in handy.  There's also Cold Snap to instantly refresh it.  Also, when combined with other talents, Blizzard causes over a 50% decrease in speed from chill, with a 15% chance at least once per second to freeze them solid (which in turn has over a 50% chance to cause triple damage while they are frozen).

[Amp]

I don't have either talent to add to my Imp bliz.  The freezing one spreads mobs badly and getting a crit off a frozen target in pvp with DR is near impossible I find anyways.  Plus with your shield being purged, or if you get stunned by a rouge (I believe stuns still work through the shields, but im not totally positive, it makes trying to channel a spell sorta tough.
I'll get my specs for my mage tonight and post them so you can see what i've got to play with.  I was gonna respec to PoM but that shield does come in so handy at times.

As for nerfing shamans, I've never played one past lvl 10 so really I don't know how to go about fixing them properly.  The way it works now though is really just not...fair?  I don't see why purge isn't on at least a 30sec if not a min timer.
And feel free to nerf priests.  Especially shadow ones.
I've been trying to level one up...man that's a boring character at low levels.

[Fabricated]

Heh. My mage is now level 18. I stoned back to Goldshire and was immeadiately challenged to a duel by a level 12 rogue, who I proceded to frost nova and nuke back into the stone age.

...and she called me a "cheater", and challenged me 3 more times, all of which ended with the same result. I ended up having to log to go check on some food that was cooking, but I'm sure she would've challenged me until she won.

Sorry bitch, I barely have 300 HP since all my gear gives me only int and spirit bonuses. I'm not letting you near me if I can help it.

[squirrel]

Heh. My mage is now level 18. I stoned back to Goldshire and was immeadiately challenged to a duel by a level 12 rogue, who I proceded to frost nova and nuke back into the stone age.

...and she called me a "cheater", and challenged me 3 more times, all of which ended with the same result. I ended up having to log to go check on some food that was cooking, but I'm sure she would've challenged me until she won.

Sorry bitch, I barely have 300 HP since all my gear gives me only int and spirit bonuses. I'm not letting you near me if I can help it.

An 18 mage should destroy a 12 rogue, not sure what the heck she was thinking. My 50 rogue has a tough fight against 50 mages - frost mages are particularly hard to beat.

[Ironwood]

It must be about the player then.  I DESTROYED a level 54 Mage the other day with my 50 rogue.

It was really, really embarrasing for the poor boy - he'd come in to 'save' the hapless lvl 30 noobs that were getting owned near Ratchet.

I'm not joking either - destroyed.  His Ice wall and freeze and blink and all the other little tricks just fell to Gouge, blind and Cold Blood.

Wish I'd frap'sed it.

[Slayerik]

Duels and real PvP are way different. Rogues always have the advantage of choosing when to fight and when not to, which is HUGE. As a priest, I have a good class but I have a huge target on me, and it doesnt help having forum notoriety.

[Tairnyn]

I agree with Morphiend's take on the Mage. Here's a timeline of my specving from level 10:

- First 21 points into Arcane, up to Presence of Mind. Allows for easier soloing using Arcane Missiles and the instant Arcane Explosion is loved by one and all.

- Rest of points into Fire for DPS, including Pyroblast. Running up Fire made soloing much easier, especially with the PoM/Pyroblast combo.

- Got level 60. RESPEC for raids

- 30 Arcane/21 Frost for the following abilities:

Frostbolt: Improved for casting time, -15% casting cost from talent, +20% range from talent (this is the ultimate mana conserve spell.. it's very efficient and I use it constantly)

Ice Shards: Ice spell critical damage increased by 100%

Ice Block: A lifesaver on many occasions. It not only prevents ALL damage (but allows heals) to you for 10 seconds it also purges all debuffs (including "The Bomb" in MC) and can stop you falling. I've survived so many more MC boss encounters after getting this, and I hear it's priceless in PvP after blinking in and unleashing the AoE.

Cold Snap: To reset Ice Block

Evocation: I use this constantly. Priests and Warlocks will hate you for it. With decent spirit I get about 66% of my mana back during a battle.

Improved Counterspell: 100% chance to silence for 4 seconds.

Arcane Instability: +3% crit chance and +3% damage to spells. Yum.

Arcane Mind: +8% to mana pool, giving me 7k+ mana unbuffed

[Ironwood]

Duels and real PvP are way different. Rogues always have the advantage of choosing when to fight and when not to, which is HUGE. As a priest, I have a good class but I have a huge target on me, and it doesnt help having forum notoriety.

It was a duel.  I should have mentioned that.

[Slayerik]

Well done then :)

Last night me (60 priest) and my 60 warr friend took on all of the gadz alliance hanging around. The 2 of us consistantly beat 5 - 50+ noobs. I was in the zone.

[WayAbvPar]

First 21 points into Arcane, up to Presence of Mind. Allows for easier soloing using Arcane Missiles and the instant Arcane Explosion is loved by one and all.

I had heard this was the way to go, and started my mage that way. After getting my ass handed to me repeatedly for 20 levels, I respecced and added in some fire for Improved Fireball and a couple of other things. Might just be playing style thing, but I had a lot of trouble with Arcane only as a n00b. I will still end up with all the Arcane goodies, but it will take a bit longer. A good tradeoff for survivability for me.

[Tairnyn]

Now that I think about it, had I gone Fire earlier it probably would've been much easier. PoM + Pyroblast is really the point at which soloing becomes trivial, so any path to that end would be a good one.

[TheWall]

I know this thread is old but it answers some of the questions I had about Mages. Would you say the information here still applies? Or is there more I should consider before speccing my mage. I plan to solo and group PvP a lot. But I don't want it to take years to hit 60.

[Furiously]

Nice necro - I was about to beat Wayabvpar about the head for playing with another friend all of a sudden.

[TheWall]

I had to decide what was worse...Rez the thread or make a new one.  :-D

[Morfiend]

I know this thread is old but it answers some of the questions I had about Mages. Would you say the information here still applies? Or is there more I should consider before speccing my mage. I plan to solo and group PvP a lot. But I don't want it to take years to hit 60.

These days Ice Mages are VERY powerful. They are the most common builds. One of the new builds that has taken off for PVP is whats called an "Elemental Build" Its basically Ice and Fire spec with no Arcane. Your major loss is Instant Arcane Explosion, but you have the utility + dps of an ice mage, AND the dps of a fire mage. You do lose presence of mind, and maybe arcane power, but this spec is very powerful. It sucks for PVE though.