Episode 3

[Margalis]

I HATE it when people defend shit by saying "you didn't understand it." I understood it  (Matrix 3) and it was ass. What, like 40 minutes of the movie was generic robots fighting other generic robots...

It's one thing if the movie is really complex and someone in their comments exposes the fact they didn't get what was going on. But that isn't the case here. There wasn't a whole lot to get. Half the movie was a CGI shootout, what's to get there exactly?

The dialog was awful, maybe I didn't understand that either?

[stray]

Half the movie was a CGI shootout, what's to get there exactly?

I can't say for sure, but it seems that many people were disappointed and/or confused by the death of Neo and Smith, and why it ended that way. Though to be fair, throughout the duration of the trilogy, viewers were lead on to believe it was gonna be another hero/messiah tale, where the "bad guys" lose in the end. That it would end with Neo kicking the machines' asses. A lot of people, kids especially, didn't have the patience when it turned out to be something entirely different.

Also, it seems like a lot of viewers didn't know what to make of the Merovingian....As if his only purpose is to be an obnoxious French guy.

[schild]

Why don't you get your self-important head out of your ass and stop being so fucking Elitist.  That's Schild Schtick.

I'm not elitist about bad movies. I admit their bad, say what they are, and move on. Matrix 3 was bad. There's no reason to argue on that. Even the subtext was paper thin.

Also, I am not a fried freezer food. There is no such thing as a Schild Schtick. Just because I see near every movie released and don't draw that many grey lines doesn't make me an elitist asshole. What makes me an elitist asshole is that I know I'm better than you because you say things like "That's Schild Schtick."

[Riggswolfe]

Also, I am not a fried freezer food. There is no such thing as a Schild Schtick. Just because I see near every movie released and don't draw that many grey lines doesn't make me an elitist asshole. What makes me an elitist asshole is that I know I'm better than you because you say things like "That's Schild Schtick."

I wonder if such a thing were marketted if we could use it as a fund raiser of some kind....

[schild]

Also, I am not a fried freezer food. There is no such thing as a Schild Schtick. Just because I see near every movie released and don't draw that many grey lines doesn't make me an elitist asshole. What makes me an elitist asshole is that I know I'm better than you because you say things like "That's Schild Schtick."

I wonder if such a thing were marketted if we could use it as a fund raiser of some kind....

Women are already lining up around stores for the midnight sale.

[stray]

Midnight sales only take place at Wal-Mart.

Could you aim just a little higher please? 

[schild]

Midnight sales only take place at Wal-Mart.

Could you aim just a little higher please? 

It was an EBGames joke. But now that you point it out, Walmart is probably the only place that sells fish sticks. So I guess they'd sell Schild Schticks too.

[Kageru]

Have just finished watching the three matrix movies and still am not sure what to make out of three. I don't think there's any doubt that it's got the weakest writing and direction, and the loss of the oracle was quite a blow. A large part is that many people wanted more of the hyper-style of the first two and instead they got a grungy war movie / tale of sacrifice. However it's a relatively fitting end to the series, it had to end with zion and in the real world (since neo is god in the matrix), and I got the feeling they gave it their best shot. I'm not bothered by an honest attempt and will take what I can out of it.

However it is obvious lucas is a hack, his product primarily a branding exercise and if I watch the trailer i've probably seen all the good bits of the movie.

[Margalis]

The big problem with the Matrix movies is that when they stopped being about the Matrix there wasn't much left. That was the interesting part.

Humans fighting against robot overlords just isn't the same.

It also hurt that after part 2 there was a lot of plot speculation, and most of the speculation (such as that Zion was just in another matrix one level outside the original matrix) was much cooler than the actual plot turned out to be.

[eldaec]

viewers were lead on to believe it was gonna be another hero/messiah tale, where the "bad guys" lose in the end. That it would end with Neo kicking the machines' asses. A lot of people, kids especially, didn't have the patience when it turned out to be something entirely different.

There are undoubtedly many film viewers who don't like tragic endings. However, in this particular case I think rather more people didn't have the patience for the godawful script and the fact that films 2 and 3 were fundamentally a badly done rip off of star wars 5 & 6 with extra pontification on the side.

[WindupAtheist]

The way I understood it was that Vader/dark jedi had to make a concious decision to be evil and pursue the short path to power.  That THAT was the essence of the dark side, quick easy power but at the price of your humanity.  Vader being a dupe doesn't fit that bill.

Trust me, he's not exactly a dupe.  He deliberately does things that no one could possibly sell as non-eeevil.

[Samwise]

It's all about being led to believe that you're doing evil in the service of a greater good.  We already know that Anakin thinks that doing away with the republic and establishing a dictatorship would be a "greater good", as long as someone like Palpatine (who he considers to be a "good guy") were in charge.

[SirBruce]

Trust me, he's not exactly a dupe.  He deliberately does things that no one could possibly sell as non-eeevil.

Exactly.  It's one thing to be corrupted by the Dark Side, and to start killing Jedi because they are trying to overthrow what you think is the legitimate government.  And because you have a personal beef with them because they never really liked you, and you have anger management issues.  But come Star Wars, Vader is EVIL.  He's blowing up planets purely for his own satisfaction.  Yes, he does eventually move to redemption, out of the love for his son, whom he first tries to convert to his cause, then protects when he sees him about to die.  And that's fine, even if he was "really" EVIL before.

But the plot of the first 3 movies is that he never really was evil, just misguided.  And that makes the redemption LESS powerful.  Because good didn't triumph over evil.  Good was simply shocking a confused man into realizing he had gone too far when the experience became deeply personal and visceral.  And this is a great theme if you're making a movie about Vietnam, but a piss poor one if you're making an epic space opera.

Bruce

[Murgos]

Well they refer to it as a seduction for a reason. I believe it's more like...by the time you realize you're Darkside, you're corrupted.

Sorry Riggs; thats the gheyest excuse for being eeevil that I think anyone has tried to run by me since Episode I was released.  If you realize you've gone the wrong way you can change, its the center part of most religions.  No, the seduction is the short path to power, you have to choose to take it.  The act of choosing to go the easy route knowing that it leads to corruption and evil is in itself an evil act.

Kindergarten morality like, "He didn't know he was evil until it was too late, so he just kinda went with it.  You know?" isn't going to fly.  Vaders redemption at the end of VI is far more powerful because he willingly chose to be evil for the benefit of power and then abandons that power and all that he gained by it for the love of his child.

And yes, everyone who has posted in this thread is an unrepentant geek.

[Margalis]

Vader repenting was lame anyway, especially for such a dork like Luke. I thought it was just pretty weak. Vader should have just thrown Luke and the Emperor into that pit then cleaned house.

[stray]

And yes, everyone who has posted in this thread is an unrepentant geek.

I simply like or dislike things -- I do not love or hate them. This disqualifies me from being a geek. Even if that is not believed, I'm definitely repentant. I've cut down my passions to 1 or 2 (decidely not geeky) things.

I will admit to being a freak though (but I won't get it into that).

The Vader stuff is crazy talk anyways. Why even think about this? These movies are meant to be enjoyed on a very superficial level. There's room to think about these things, of course, but why would you want to? Can't you just have fun with them? Or just simply dislike it?

And besides, this is all bullshit anyways. No matter what you think is inferred from the last two films (about Anakin's corruption), no one here knows what Lucas has written for the next one. Maybe he's thought of this himself and found a sufficient explanation. No?

[Margalis]

An explanation like say - Midi-Chlorians? Or even BETTER than that, it that's possible..

[SirBruce]

The Vader stuff is crazy talk anyways. Why even think about this? These movies are meant to be enjoyed on a very superficial level. There's room to think about these things, of course, but why would you want to? Can't you just have fun with them? Or just simply dislike it?

Because we're smarter than that.  We aren't merely monkeys flinging out own poo at stuff that we don't like.  We can apply critical thought as to why something is distasteful, and by examining those reasons, perhaps develop ways of producing less disasteful things n the future.  Of course we can ignore inconsistancies and have some amount of fun anyway; the point is that there is meaning beyond the immediate, contemperaneous experience of the events shown on screen, and the more consistant that is, the more enjoyment we draw from that as well.  It's the difference between Tom Hanks being killed 30 seconds after landing on the beach in Saving Private Ryan and Tom Hanks being killed at the end of the movie.

And besides, this is all bullshit anyways. No matter what you think is inferred from the last two films (about Anakin's corruption), no one here knows what Lucas has written for the next one. Maybe he's thought of this himself and found a sufficient explanation. No?

Umm, you mean like how he thought through the whole "20 years ago we knew Jedi powers derived from real things called Medichlorians, but in less than a generation is was considered a hokey old religion based on supersition?" thing?  Or how about the whole part where C-3PO should be saying, "Master Luke, perhaps now would be a good time to mention that I was actually built by your father and oh, by the way, he's Darth Vader?" but doesn't?  Or perhaps the brilliant plan of, "Hey, Anakin is going to be looking for his children, so lets hide one on Tatooine, you know, his home planet, with the same family that Anakin's mother later lived with, oh and we'll leave the Jedi that dropped Anakin into a volcano there in a cave to watch over him, but don't worry, because Anakin will NEVER THINK TO LOOK THERE." is more to your liking?

A sufficient explanation?  I'll take "No" for $500, Alex.

Bruce

[stray]

Or perhaps the brilliant plan of, "Hey, Anakin is going to be looking for his children, so lets hide one on Tatooine, you know, his home planet, with the same family that Anakin's mother later lived with, oh and we'll leave the Jedi that dropped Anakin into a volcano there in a cave to watch over him, but don't worry, because Anakin will NEVER THINK TO LOOK THERE." is more to your liking?

Yes, Bruce. When it comes to film, ignorance is bliss.

[Riggswolfe]

Sorry Riggs; thats the gheyest excuse for being eeevil that I think anyone has tried to run by me since Episode I was released.  If you realize you've gone the wrong way you can change, its the center part of most religions.  No, the seduction is the short path to power, you have to choose to take it.  The act of choosing to go the easy route knowing that it leads to corruption and evil is in itself an evil act.

Kindergarten morality like, "He didn't know he was evil until it was too late, so he just kinda went with it.  You know?" isn't going to fly.  Vaders redemption at the end of VI is far more powerful because he willingly chose to be evil for the benefit of power and then abandons that power and all that he gained by it for the love of his child.

And yes, everyone who has posted in this thread is an unrepentant geek.

Well, it is really hard for me to explain because the real world doesn't work like Star Wars. The best example I can think of is that the Dark Side is like the One Ring. It gives you power but at a price. Frodo was a good and decent hobbit but in the end, he was corrupted by the One Ring. The Dark Side works the same way. It is an external force that corrupts the user over the course of time. The difference is, that where Gollum destroyed the ring, Vader was able to overcome this evil which he had been under the sway of for 2 decades at this point.

Another way to look at it is the old myth of black magic. You may learn it for the purest of purposes, but the magic itself is evil and eventually corrupts.

Vader can literally claim the devil made him do it because it did. It has been argued on huge Star Wars geek forums that the whole prophecy is fulfilled when Vader kills off the Jedi and tosses the Emporer down the shaft. Balance was achieved. (Of course now I'm getting into dangerous waters of Vader was destined to go evil and be redeemed because it was a prophecy..)

As for Bruce's points:

Force as religion vs midichlorians: This is so easy to explain it is pathetic. To outsiders, the force is some hokey religion. The jedi understand it better, but aren't about to tell outsiders more than they need to know. It's called protecting your own mystique and power.

C3PO: Memory wipe. Something Lucas has said will happen to him either in Episode 3 or between episodes. Duh.

Tatooine: Kinda got me there. Worse than hiding him there is leaving him with the name Skywalker.

[SirBruce]

Force as religion vs midichlorians: This is so easy to explain it is pathetic. To outsiders, the force is some hokey religion. The jedi understand it better, but aren't about to tell outsiders more than they need to know. It's called protecting your own mystique and power.

But it's not that easy.  Remember, the Jedi were highly visible during at least the Clone Wars, and then later during the Emporer's purge.  This was less than 20 years before Episode IV.  And yet what do we see in A New Hope?  Han Solo saying he's never heard of such a thing.  "It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense"  Hmm, you know, maybe he could pick up an old RECORDING of the battles in a historical memory crystal?  Motti calls it an "ancient" religion, and Solo the lightsabre an "ancient" weapon.  Motti seems completely surprised that a Jedi would have the power to choke him from across the room.  The clear implication of the first movie is that Obi-Wan is very old, and that most of the Jedi have been gone for quite a long time.

C3PO: Memory wipe. Something Lucas has said will happen to him either in Episode 3 or between episodes. Duh.

Of course, but this is still something contrived after the fact.  Don't forget R2-D2, too.  They're going to have a hard enough time explaining in movie three how Anakin can become evil, and yet nobody but a few Jedi knew it.

Tatooine: Kinda got me there. Worse than hiding him there is leaving him with the name Skywalker.

Well, you know, it could be a common name.

Bruce

[Margalis]

I can divide the world into two groups - people who think Midi-chlorians are retarded and those that don't.

Talk about one of the dumbest fucking ideas ever in a movie - wow. Just wow. And the silly part is it's a "scientific" explanation that totally breaks down if you think about it for more than 2 seconds. It's not the people that see into the future, the Midi-chlorians see into the future then TELL the people - ok it all makes sense now! So now rather than having people magically see into the future, you have small organisms that can magically see into the future and magically communicate that back to the host organism!

Maybe the midi-chlorians have their own...umm...mini-midi-chlorians. See, there is a scientific explanation for everything!

Why even bother with an explanation? Why not just say that some people are more force-sensitive than others and leave it at that?

And Bruce has a good point - in one generation they've gone from having a whole army of Jedi to thinking they are a myth. That's like the United States collectively considering the Pilgrims a myth, only worse. I think it would take a lot more than one generation to forget about a large group of glow-stick-swinging ass-kicking super-warriors.


Edit: Looking at the first films, the impression would be that Jedi have existed in only tiny numbers for at least a couple-hundred years. Either that or every person in the universe suffers from a severe degenerative brain disease.

I mean, aren't some people still ALIVE from when those events took place? Vietnam is a myth!

[Sobelius]

Even though I saw Eps I and II and will see Ep III, my biggest problem with all of them is that they add nothing at all to the original films. Everything we really needed to know about "the past" was provided by the time we hit the end of Return of the Jedi. We got all we needed to know about Vader's past so that there's a sense of redemption for him. Is anything really gained by knowing there was someone named count Dooku or Jar Jar Binks or Mace Windu? Let me see if I can play the line quote game to see if this works:

- "if there's a bright spot in the universe we're on the planet that it's farthest from"
- "your father, Anakin Skywalker, was killed by Darth Vader, a pupil of mine until he turned to the dark side"
- "Obi Wan you knew my father, he fought with you in the Clone Wars"
- "Vader was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force"
- "Vader hunted down and destroyed the Jedi"
- "you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."
- "I want to learn to be a Jedi like my father"
- "The Force flows in us and around us. Reach out with your feelings."
- "Your sad devotion to a dying religion hasn't conjured up the stolen battleplans."
- "The Force is strong with this one."
- "Hate and anger lead to the Dark Side."
- "I don't believe it." -- "That is why you fail."
- "Luke, I am your father"
- "Nooooooooooooo! I'll never be like you."
- "I'm your sister. Yes, somehow I've always known."
- "Destroy him and take your rightful place by my side."
- "Such a waste. Now feel the power of the Dark Side, Jedi."
- "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa!"
- "Dad, I love you. Even if you did cut my hand off."
- "Yub yub. Yub Yub!!"


Even the information that Boba Fett was the son of Jango Fett and that Stormtroopers are just all clones of Jango Fett adds nothing of real value to the story told in the first 3 movies. If anyone can think of anything of real value that was added by the recent films, I'd like to know. I would have much preferred that the first 3 films stand on their own as a trilogy which simply hinted at events of the last 3 films; instead, they seem to exist only to tell us everything we already knew, just in more detail.

[SirBruce]

What they really should have done was make the first movie 100 years ago, not 10 - 20.  If there was a Jedi Council at one time it should have been long gone.  Jedi would be rare, with Yoda, Kenobi, and the new Anakin, perhaps a couple of others at most.  The movies would have been about the rise of the Empire, Jedi being hunted down by the Sith (not just crammed all into the third movie), and Anakin being seduced by the Dark Side.  If Luke was always going to be Vader's son (something I don't think Lucas originally planned no matter what he says), then obviously Vader would have knocked up some girl many decades later, after he was already evil.  The third movie would deal with that... the growing rebellion, a confrontation between Obi-Wan and Anakin, hiding away the girl before Anakin knew she was pregnant, and then the fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin which forces Anakin into his Darth Vader shell.

Bruce

[Margalis]

My god. I'm going beserk in a Star Wars thread!

But yes, you've hit a good point. The movies don't really stand on their own, nor so they add much to the original. Another story set in the SW universe would be far better, if for no other reason than not to drag down the memory of the original trilogy. My thought was always that the prequels were a bad idea because they would be poor, and they would turn SW from a decent franchise into a mediocre one.

The same thing has happened with the Aliens movies to some extent. Another couple stinkers and you'll have to qualify your statements every time you say you like Aliens movies.
---

The new movies don't accomplish much other than to exist. Then again, the same can be said about the re-releases. (Now with annoying CGI dinosaurs!) The sad part is it really seems like Lucas thinks he is free to create something great and this is it.

I think that happens with a lot of people: They need a controlling influence and some checks and balances or else they wallow under their own excesses. Once they become free to do whatever they want they end up producing garbage, because it becomes a solely ego-driven escapade.

I don't think there is anyone there now to say "look man, this dialog fucking sucks, sorry but it does."

Edit: Ok, I'm done talking about Star Wars. Mostly I'm just bored waiting for my coworker to finish something. (I swear!) They should have made the new SW films something totally different, like the great-great-grandfather of Boba-Fett or something wacky like that.

[stray]

If anyone can think of anything of real value that was added by the recent films, I'd like to know. I would have much preferred that the first 3 films stand on their own as a trilogy which simply hinted at events of the last 3 films; instead, they seem to exist only to tell us everything we already knew, just in more detail.

Why, the midichlorians, of course!   :-D

No, you're right. You bring up the best point here, I think. The prequels weren't really necessary. A good waste of time perhaps (depending on the viewer), but still unnecessary.

edit: I will say though, that sometimes this works for a franchise, sometimes not. Sometimes I like to revist the same "world" (if you will), even if I've already seen everything it has to offer. That can be a fun thing in and of itself (I hate to admit it, but I actually like the Lethal Weapon and Die Hard sequels. Rocky and Rambo as well!).

[Abagadro]

One thing that has been bugging me because it has been said multiple times, but Vader didn't blow up any planets. That would be Grand Moff Tarkin.  In fact, he really doesn't individually do anything particularly bad in the Eps IV - VI except force choke a few people and strangle the pilot of Leias transport.  Everything else was him basically killing underlings or searching for the rebels, which would fit into the concept that he may have thought it was a good thing (insert discussiong of the rebels as leftist terrorists from Clerks) in service of his government.

My view of the Dark Side based upon the movies isn't that it is an external source, but it is simply giving into the darker side of yourself. The Emporer constantly talks about "giving into your hate" and that this will make you powerful. Yoda and Obi-Wan talk about not giving into your fear, which is another negative emotion. So the Dark Side is internal in that it is just releasing the darker part of your personality, which is powerful but self destructive.

[SirBruce]

One thing that has been bugging me because it has been said multiple times, but Vader didn't blow up any planets. That would be Grand Moff Tarkin.  In fact, he really doesn't individually do anything particularly bad in the Eps IV - VI except force choke a few people and strangle the pilot of Leias transport.  Everything else was him basically killing underlings or searching for the rebels, which would fit into the concept that he may have thought it was a good thing (insert discussiong of the rebels as leftist terrorists from Clerks) in service of his government.

This is true to the extent that, under the Empire, Governors are supposed to be exercising local control over their territory.  So presumably the Emporer doesn't mind if Governors blow up a few planets, particularly if it's to demonstrate the new weapon that's designed to keep other planets in line.  But Vader doesn't do anything to stop this, nor does he regret the decision.  In fact, he himself gives the final order to "Commence primary ignition."

My point was that if you were just a misguided and troubled youth not realizing the bad things you do, then you should have gotten a clue once you started participating in planetary genocide.  But if you were truly under the influence of "evil", then to engage in lots of evil acts only to snap out of it when faced with the love and forgiveness of your own son seems far more meaningful.  (Although logically perhaps an even worse reason.)

My view of the Dark Side based upon the movies isn't that it is an external source, but it is simply giving into the darker side of yourself. The Emporer constantly talks about "giving into your hate" and that this will make you powerful. Yoda and Obi-Wan talk about not giving into your fear, which is another negative emotion. So the Dark Side is internal in that it is just releasing the darker part of your personality, which is powerful but self destructive.

Well, that's just a variation on the ancient theme that the pursuit of power itself is ultimately negative and corrupting, but the pursuit of enlightenment leads to a power of its own that is equal if not superior to the negative.

One thing I sort-of like about the first trilogy is this sort-of Hinduistic notion of cyclic reincarnation, that the story of the first three movies somewhat mirrors the story of the second three, only in the first one Anakin was supposed to be the one to bring balance to the Force, but failed, and so the actors re-arrange into new parts and Luke comes along to fulfill that role instead in a modified retelling of the tale.  But this is still a very weak and tenuous connection between the stories, and in any event, Luke doesn't bring balance to the Force until the books of the Expanded Universe, anyway.

Bruce

[Riggswolfe]

My view of the Dark Side based upon the movies isn't that it is an external source, but it is simply giving into the darker side of yourself. The Emporer constantly talks about "giving into your hate" and that this will make you powerful. Yoda and Obi-Wan talk about not giving into your fear, which is another negative emotion. So the Dark Side is internal in that it is just releasing the darker part of your personality, which is powerful but self destructive.

But then we're back to the whole problem that Vader is evil because Vader is evil. Not because he has been corrupted. If Vader is basically Hitler in space, then Return of the Jedi falls apart. You can't redeem someone who is evil. It just doesn't happen in real life. A serial killer doesn't just save his own child and suddenly become a good person.  But, if we're dealing with it on a mythic level, and Vader was a decent guy who was simply corrupted by an evil force (the One Ring analogy again) then he can be redeemed and it returns to an epic, mythic story.

Saying that the Dark Side is just your own inner darkness is the same kind of thing as saying the force isn't a mystical energy field, it's just some weird mutated version of mitochondria. (Let's face it, the whole midichlorian thing was Lucas needing someway to tell the audience that Anakin is the biggiest bad ass ever. He just couldn't figure out a way to do it without some hokey scientific explanation. Thankfully, most people I know rationalize midichlorians as just being little critters that are attracted to the force but don't produce the force. So you're powerful in the force, you have alot of them, but they aren't connected to the force directly. More like ants drawn to the picnic that is the force.)

[Abagadro]

No. It is that we all have good and evil within us, so while you can DO evil, that doesn't mean you are IRRETRIEVABLYevil.  That's the whole point of redemption, it's personal, not that there is some ooga-booga energy field that you are saved from.

[SirBruce]

My view of the Dark Side based upon the movies isn't that it is an external source, but it is simply giving into the darker side of yourself. The Emporer constantly talks about "giving into your hate" and that this will make you powerful. Yoda and Obi-Wan talk about not giving into your fear, which is another negative emotion. So the Dark Side is internal in that it is just releasing the darker part of your personality, which is powerful but self destructive.

But then we're back to the whole problem that Vader is evil because Vader is evil. Not because he has been corrupted. If Vader is basically Hitler in space, then Return of the Jedi falls apart. You can't redeem someone who is evil. It just doesn't happen in real life. A serial killer doesn't just save his own child and suddenly become a good person.  But, if we're dealing with it on a mythic level, and Vader was a decent guy who was simply corrupted by an evil force (the One Ring analogy again) then he can be redeemed and it returns to an epic, mythic story.

No, you have it completely and utterly backwards.

It is the MODERN story, the HUMAN story, that says that a basically good person becomes corrupted, and when finally faced with the horrors of his own misdeeds, redeems himself in the end.  But that ain't epic and it ain't mythic.  It's Shakespeare, it's Orson Welles, it's Vietnam.

An epic, mythic story is when the GOOD triumphs over the truly EVIL, and redemption comes not from within, but from without.  The power of good, the power of forgiveness, the power of grace, destroys the corrupt source, either leaving good behind or nothing.  (I suppose in Time Bandits, the evil is still left behind, but it's not in animated form anymore.)

Bruce

[Roac]

But come Star Wars, Vader is EVIL.

Most people who are evil don't consider themselves such.  This is evil both big and small - whether you're lying to your boss/friend, or participating in genocide, you're going to justify your actions to yourself.

In the case of blowing up Alderaan, Vader had two motives.  One, was to show the lengths that the Empire was willing to go to in order to demand compliance.  Remember, there was a rebellion that was alive and well.  It was organized, funded, and a very REAL threat to the Empire's existance.  And here he had Leia, a member of the Senate (the Empire's own governing body), and a well connected member of said rebellion.  She had information crippling to the Empire, and he had to solicit compliance from her, in particular.

Most entities will go to ANY length to ensure their own survival.  Governments, both real and fictitious, can be counted upon to act in the same way that individuals will.  Threaten a government, and it will react - violently - to defend itself.  Without trying to draw too much parallel, one of the reasons to drop the bombs on Japan - to demonstrate US power, and willingness to use that power.  The other reason was to answer the question of whether Japan's surrender would be conditional or not.

To say that he was blowing up planets for his own satisfaction would be to entirely miss the point of the movies.  The Empire wouldn't have held together had the government (of which he was, effectively, VP) been doing that.  If the populace hadn't understood some level of cause-effect that seemed rational to them, they wouldn't have thrown their support behind it.

[Roac]

the Midi-chlorians see into the future then TELL the people

Maybe I missed that step in the movies (don't have them on DVD), but I thought midi-chlorians were only casually related to one's potency with the Force?  Meaning, they occured along with force-sensitive people, not that they were the CAUSE of the force.

[SirBruce]

To say that he was blowing up planets for his own satisfaction would be to entirely miss the point of the movies.  The Empire wouldn't have held together had the government (of which he was, effectively, VP) been doing that.  If the populace hadn't understood some level of cause-effect that seemed rational to them, they wouldn't have thrown their support behind it.

No, you've entirely missed the point.  It's not a treatise on moral realtivism; it's mythic space opera.  Just because the Empire had motivation to blow up the planet doesn't make it rational or right.  Humanizing Vader cheapens the whole story.  Do you think Schindler's List would have been improved by showing that Hitler was just trying to do what he thought was right?  The glimpses you get into the reasoning of the bad guys should leave you even more disturbed, not less so.

Bruce

[Abagadro]

In my mind the original trilogy is very much an individual story of redemption, which happens to take place during a conflict.  In fact, Lucas' attempt to bring in all the political backstory and make it a "grand opera" is what has fucked it up the most. Most of that was hinted at and in the background of the originals and the focus was on the individual characters, which is why they were much better.