Obligatory Movie Thread(Kingdom of Heaven)

[WayAbvPar]

I've been told that in the Near East, people, to this day, still argue and feel resentment over the Crusades.

They've got to fill time somehow. Camel tipping only goes so far.

[MrHat]

I've been told that in the Near East, people, to this day, still argue and feel resentment over the Crusades.

Wtf is Near East?  Philly?

[Strazos]

It's Historical jargon...

Places like Egypt, Israel...that's Near East.

[Paelos]

It's Historical jargon...

Places like Egypt, Israel...that's Near East.

I want to know where the big "YOU ARE HERE" sticker is that the historians base their directions on.

[MrHat]

It's Historical jargon...

Places like Egypt, Israel...that's Near East.

I could've sworn that was Middle East...

[Viin]

I want to know where the big "YOU ARE HERE" sticker is that the historians base their directions on.

Probably the same place that most navigation stuff is based off of - the prime meridian. And probably Greenwich for point of reference.

If you look at a globe you will see that Israel and those guys are closer to Greenwich than Iran. Iran is Middle East, Israel is Near East.

[MrHat]

I want to know where the big "YOU ARE HERE" sticker is that the historians base their directions on.

Probably the same place that most navigation stuff is based off of - the prime meridian. And probably Greenwich for point of reference.

If you look at a globe you will see that Israel and those guys are closer to Greenwich than Iran. Iran is Middle East, Israel is Near East.

No.  Iran is Persia.

[Murgos]

I thought it was Turkey and anything to the east of it is 'the east' (The Orient) and anything to the west of it is 'The West'.  The Far East being India and on and the near east being anything near Turkey and the middle east being whatever the hell is between Turkey and India.

[MrHat]

I thought it was Turkey and anything to the east of it is 'the east' (The Orient) and anything to the west of it is 'The West'.  The Far East being India and on and the near east being anything near Turkey and the middle east being whatever the hell is between Turkey and India.

Nope.

[Viin]

Nope.

That's helpful. Thanks for enlightening us. :P

[Strazos]

At least from my understanding, Iran kind of flip-flops, because of it's position. I usually put it under "Middle East", because it's pretty far east of the Mediteranean (and no, I suck at spelling that damn thing).

Generally, the Near East consists of places that were active in western civilization within the Ancient World; again, Egypt, Israel, Turkey, et al.

[stray]

I thought it was Turkey and anything to the east of it is 'the east' (The Orient) and anything to the west of it is 'The West'.  The Far East being India and on and the near east being anything near Turkey and the middle east being whatever the hell is between Turkey and India.

Nope.

Back in the day (way, way back, that is) Turkey was considered "Near" East, while places like India and Persia were considered "East". This is before the discovery of the American continent, and before places like China, Mongolia, or Japan were being explored by Westerners. The terms may be a misnomer now, but they still endure to some extent to this day. Turkey, as well as it's surrounding areas, used to be called Little Asia, Asia Minor, Anatolia (Rising Sun), etc..

[stray]

Woohoo necro...

Just got around to seeing it....Wish I had given it a chance earlier now. This turned out to be much better than I thought it'd be (and would have been better in a theater).

I agree that someone could have been more suitable than Bloom (which is one of the reasons I avoided it), but he didn't exactly ruin it for me. At least it wasn't Colin Farrell.

I didn't know until now that Ed Norton was in it too. That was strange.

Anyways...Another reason why I thought it wasn't going to be good was because Ridley Scott also did Gladiator and 1492 (I like Scott, but up to this point, his historical epics sorta disappoint me). This time around though, everything moves right along at the same pace, it isn't jumbled, and it pretty much just tries to be a good action movie.

He definitely improved on fight scenes and choreography too (not to mention that this contains the coolest depiction of seige warfare that I've seen to date). All of the cast was good (I think he hired the REAL Saladin to play the role actually).

Also rented Hitchhikers Guide -- Which sucked. I never read the books, but the guy who played Arthur was a complete asshole. He was just an unsympathetic character. Beeblebrox had my sympathy -- Sam Rockwell, once again, steals the show.

[Llava]

The Hitchhiker's movie had none of the charm of the books.

"So Long And Thanks For All The Fish" isn't as funny when you hear it repeated 50 times in a musical.  Mostly just funny as one line.

Kinda like if Dave Chapelle came out with an "I'm Rich, Bitch!" musical, accompanied by the "O-KAYYY!" dancers.  Funny wears thin.

[stray]

(I think he hired the REAL Saladin to play the role actually)

Just wanted to further comment on this. Heh....Apparantly he has a lot of fans at imdb (you'd have to be a registered imdb member to read the threads). Fans like "Moon Preacher" and "bhaktigirl" all want him to be nominated for Best Supporting Role.

Funny thing is, I agree with them. Biased fanatics or not. A Jihad on whoever disagrees!

[HaemishM]

I finally saw it a few weeks ago. It was a ton better than I thought it would be. Bloom was good in it, though he still falls back on that wistful nancy boy look on his face too much. I liked that it was gritty and fairly accurate. There were no "good" guys. Bloom was a bit too perfect in regards to morality and such, but the whole thing was just a decent depiction of the intricacies of one part of the Crusades. I could have done without the romance angle, but not knowing the particulars of that part of the Crusades very well, I don't know that that part wasn't accurate.

I thought Hitchhikers' Guide was hysterical. Sam Rockwell definitely stole the show.

[Belce]

I liked Kingdom of Heaven, but I didn't like the parts where Bloom was trying to be inspiring, like when cheered the crowd to have them stand against the saracens at Jerusalem. 

[SuperPopTart]

BELCE! You pecker! Where HAVE you been??

[shiznitz]

I, too, recently Netflixed Kingdom due to this thread. Liked it quite a bit but didn't understand the point of even having the female lead. Her character added nothing to the story.

Maybe I am too much of a political junky, but the last scene with King Richard riding off to re-take Jerusalem made me think of the terrorists trying to retake Iraq over and over again. Religious fanaticism is silly.

[stray]

I, too, recently Netflixed Kingdom due to this thread. Liked it quite a bit but didn't understand the point of even having the female lead. Her character added nothing to the story.

Sibylla was of the royal family of Jerusalem (and later the queen), and there were actual rumors of her having an affair with Balian. It's hard to blame Hollywood for jumping on the idea. It's a convenient fact for them.

Besides that, her one notable purpose in the script was when the king asked Balian to take her as his wife, and to rid of everyone of Guy. It was good to show how seriously Balian took his position as a knight....That he'd sacrifice his chances even with her for the sake of honor (and to show how much of a sacrifice that was to him, you'd have to show at least some of their relationship).

[shiznitz]

You explanation of the historical context helps, but the movie gave it such a short shrift that it might as well have been excluded. Their relationship had no weight in the movie so Balian's refusal carried no dramatic weight.  His honor was adequately established in other ways. It is good to know, though, that Hollywood didn't just invent her.

[Triforcer]

I like how in this movie all the people who lived 1000 years ago are perfectly politically correct and have a deep respect for the religions of each other even though that's the exact opposite of how things were.  PC FTW!

[HaemishM]

I like how in this movie all the people who lived 1000 years ago are perfectly politically correct and have a deep respect for the religions of each other even though that's the exact opposite of how things were.  PC FTW!

Except really, they didn't. See how many of the Crusaders followed Guy and the big Viking fucker happily to slaughter innocent Muslims and how the Muslim guy who pressured Saladim to retake Jerusalem even though as Saladim said it meant nothing and was worth nothing.

Oh right, you're just trolling like a douchebag again.

[stray]

Actually, there were plenty of Western poems and songs of the time praising Saladin. Quite a few crusaders themselves stated that he'd be just as an honorable as their greatest knights.....If he only he was Christian, of course. Even Dante wrote of him as one of the "redeemable" heathens, not to be sent to Hell.

There were actually a lot of people who wanted it all over with, who wanted to find a means of peace over Jerusalem. It was the Templars who were the main faction that spoke otherwise, and where the typical image of the warmongering crusader stems from.

And just to note, while these guys were at first considered heroes, they later were seen as a threat and a nuisance. Within a short amount of time, they were all either banished or executed. The general populace started seeing crusaders like Guy and Reynaud as greater enemies than the Muslims themselves.

Not to say that the movie is highly accurate or anything, but there is truth to the idea that both sides held respect for each other.

[stray]

Btw, did anyone notice that the assistant to Saladin was played by the guy who played Dr. Bashir on ST: Voyager?

I never got into Star Trek until Voyager actually (yeah, yeah, it's supposed to be the lame one), so it's the only reason I know.

Anyways, it's always nice to see an ex ST cast member (other than Stewart) show up in a non Sci Fi role ([EDIT] And be good at it).

[edit] Bah. Goes to show how much I know about Star Trek. He wasn't on Voyager was he? I think it was Deep Space Nine.

[ahoythematey]

Correct.  Alexander Siddig played Dr. Julian Bashir on Deep Space Nine, also known as "BEST STAR TREK EVAR".

[stray]

Correct.  Alexander Siddig played Dr. Julian Bashir on Deep Space Nine, also known as "BEST STAR TREK EVAR".

Yeah, I forgot that the doctor on Voyager was the hologram dude.

After I got sucked into Voyager, I started watching reruns of Deep Space Nine. Mixed them up, I guess.

I'm not sure about "Best Star Trek Ever", but Deep Space Nine had two of the best episodes I've ever seen (the Tribbles remake and the episode where Quark goes back in time and crash lands in New Mexico, circa 1950.....In a small town named Roswell).

[HaemishM]

No, DS9 really was the best Star Trek after the original series. It was at least watchable. And yes, I noticed it.

[Polysorbate80]

I finally saw it a few weeks ago. It was a ton better than I thought it would be. Bloom was good in it, though he still falls back on that wistful nancy boy look on his face too much. I liked that it was gritty and fairly accurate. There were no "good" guys. Bloom was a bit too perfect in regards to morality and such, but the whole thing was just a decent depiction of the intricacies of one part of the Crusades. I could have done without the romance angle, but not knowing the particulars of that part of the Crusades very well, I don't know that that part wasn't accurate.

I thought Hitchhikers' Guide was hysterical. Sam Rockwell definitely stole the show.

They cleaned up history a lot to make sympathetic characters, or the movie would have had nobody to root for.

The real Balian was not such an upstanding guy,  As one example, he trampled his own footsoldiers while fleeing from the battle of Hattin (that's the one where Saladin crushed the crusaders before going on to Jerusalem).  Nor was he a bastard living in France with a recently-deceased wife--he was married to Sybilla's step-mother, of all things.  

Sybilla, meanwhile, was not interested in Balian but may have had the hots for his older brother Baldwin.  She was also highly supportive of Guy (who really was a dick and survived the whole thing to go on to further acts of assholism)

Incidentally, Saladin didn't let everyone go free--he released those who could pay ransom but sold a lot of the poorer folk into slavery.

[stray]

I thought Balian WAS Baldwin? I knew he had brothers, but I could have sworn that was just a different version of the name.

[edit] Eh, you're right.

Besides, the character in the film is an amalgam anyways. The main point still stands: There's grounds for putting Sybella in it.

[HaemishM]

They probably included the scene of Balian killing the priest to show he had done some terrible things. Of course, they also had to make the priest be a grave robber, so that the killing was justified.