I am an HDTV total newb, help please

[Alluvian]

Okay, got an LCD HDTV and am very happy with picture quality, dimensions, and the price.

It has the following inputs:
1 PC video input (like a monitor cable)
1 DVI
1 component
2 AV inputs (rca jacks, 1 yellow video, 2 for stereo sound)
1 S-video input

Now...  I have digital cable from brighthouse networks and an XBOX.

1) Would I be correct in my understanding that getting HDTV or widescreen out of xbox games that support them requires the component video Xbox cables?  I can't seem to access any special video modes with just the AV connectors that come with the xbox.

2) does the xbox support progressive scan on dvds once I get the component video cables?  Or will I be stuck with 480i?  I am pretty sure it is still displaying in 480i as I can see the alternate lines lagging behind on fast pans.

3) I currently just have coaxial connection coming from my digital cable tv decoder.  I believe that IF I upgrade to HDTV channels (the 11 or so offered here) that the new set-top box would have component video cables for output.
If so, would I have to get a component video switch (seems to cost $50+ on the low end). to see both cable and the xbox.  Is there such a thing as a component-DVI converter?  If it exists, would it be able to carry the hdtv signal?  Same question for the computer video plugin or S-video, any cheap adapters that could carry HDTV signal?

4) There is a single 'bad' line in the display.  The tv turns on fine, looks great.  About 5 minutes later one line goes black, and then will adopt any really intense colors that overlap it before fading to black again.  After about 30-40 minutes, the line disapears and starts to work perffectly.  It seems to be a bad connection, where the heat of the tv being on for awhile causes it to expand back into proper connection.  I know bad pixels are considered common in LCD displays (can't find any bad pixels other than that one line), but is this kind of problem common?  I am assuming I should take it back to exchange it.


Thanks for any help, I know these questions are VERY noobish, but I have had the TV for all one day and I didn't leave the house planning on getting it.

I am just insane that way. $1300 impulse buys are bad, but hard to resist when the wife is not only okaying it but pushing you to do it (assuming it is something you REALLY want).

[murdoc]

Glad you asked Alluvian, as I'm in the market for a HDTV and am trying to research a lot of this info right now (Fairly unsuccessfully atm I might as work is getting in the way of my good internet research time)

One thing I have read is that same Plasma and LCD TVs need about 100 hrs to get worked in. I'm wondering if that's part of your random line and problem and if it's worthing waiting to see if it goes away.

Anyways, hopefully someone with more knowledge than I enters this thread soon as I have a lot of the same sorts of questions.

[Trippy]

Okay, got an LCD HDTV and am very happy with picture quality, dimensions, and the price.

It has the following inputs:
1 PC video input (like a monitor cable)
1 DVI
1 component
2 AV inputs (rca jacks, 1 yellow video, 2 for stereo sound)
1 S-video input

Now...  I have digital cable from brighthouse networks and an XBOX.

1) Would I be correct in my understanding that getting HDTV or widescreen out of xbox games that support them requires the component video Xbox cables?

Yes.

2) does the xbox support progressive scan on dvds once I get the component video cables?  Or will I be stuck with 480i?  I am pretty sure it is still displaying in 480i as I can see the alternate lines lagging behind on fast pans.

An unmodded Xbox can only output 480i for DVD playback. There are hacked versions of the Dashboard that can apparently output 480p for DVD playback.

3) I currently just have coaxial connection coming from my digital cable tv decoder.  I believe that IF I upgrade to HDTV channels (the 11 or so offered here) that the new set-top box would have component video cables for output.

Maybe, maybe not. You should check with your cable company -- the box may have HDMI, DVI, or component outputs or some combination of the three.

If so, would I have to get a component video switch (seems to cost $50+ on the low end). to see both cable and the xbox.  Is there such a thing as a component-DVI converter?  If it exists, would it be able to carry the hdtv signal?  Same question for the computer video plugin or S-video, any cheap adapters that could carry HDTV signal?

I've seen PC video card DVI output to monitor/TV component input adapters but I'm not sure if they work in the reverse direction. If your HDTV cable box outputs HDMI there are HDMI <-> DVI cables. There are also component output to VGA monitor input adapter boxes/cables as well.

[Sky]

1 PC video input (like a monitor cable)
1 DVI
1 component
2 AV inputs (rca jacks, 1 yellow video, 2 for stereo sound)
1 S-video input

Use DVI for your PC. Trust me on that one. The VGA port is ok, but the sharpness of DVI is dramatic, makes my display sharply pixel-perfect. Forget you have s-video or RCA, total suckage.

1) Would I be correct in my understanding that getting HDTV or widescreen out of xbox games that support them requires the component video Xbox cables?  I can't seem to access any special video modes with just the AV connectors that come with the xbox.

Yep. Don't splurg on monster cables or anything, but don't cheap out. The standard xbox HD pack is fine. Without the HD pack, you get 480i only.

2) does the xbox support progressive scan on dvds once I get the component video cables?  Or will I be stuck with 480i?  I am pretty sure it is still displaying in 480i as I can see the alternate lines lagging behind on fast pans.

The xbox does a crappy job at scaling, my tv does a great job. So when I was using my xbox as a dvd player, I wasn't concerned, thus I dunno :) I'm using my pc as a dvd player now. But for now, your image will look like shit because you aren't using component cables. Welcome to HD: GIGO (garbage in/garbage out).

3) I currently just have coaxial connection coming from my digital cable tv decoder.  I believe that IF I upgrade to HDTV channels (the 11 or so offered here) that the new set-top box would have component video cables for output.
If so, would I have to get a component video switch (seems to cost $50+ on the low end). to see both cable and the xbox.  Is there such a thing as a component-DVI converter?  If it exists, would it be able to carry the hdtv signal?  Same question for the computer video plugin or S-video, any cheap adapters that could carry HDTV signal?

My cable box has a DVI option, which I don't use because it's my preferred connection for my PC. I have component switching on my audio reciever, initially I used that. But I found I don't really use my consoles anymore (pc+hdtv ftw), so I recently had my xbox hooked to the pass-through on the cable box (before it went to storage, heh).

Get used to this: there are no cables besides DVI and component for you now (barring HDMI, which you don't have, and maybe VGA if you really need to, for the pc, but I'd highly recommend DVI for pc). Forget Composite (RCA) and S-Video. They don't exist anymore, except maybe for a VCR.

4) There is a single 'bad' line in the display.  The tv turns on fine, looks great.  About 5 minutes later one line goes black, and then will adopt any really intense colors that overlap it before fading to black again.  After about 30-40 minutes, the line disapears and starts to work perffectly.  It seems to be a bad connection, where the heat of the tv being on for awhile causes it to expand back into proper connection.  I know bad pixels are considered common in LCD displays (can't find any bad pixels other than that one line), but is this kind of problem common?  I am assuming I should take it back to exchange it.

I'd freak out about it and make sure I got a new one. Sure, it goes away. You didn't spend over a grand for a wonky set, now did you? Demand satisfaction, or the electronics stores will gladly ignore you with pithy dismissals.

Thanks for any help, I know these questions are VERY noobish, but I have had the TV for all one day and I didn't leave the house planning on getting it.

I am just insane that way. $1300 impulse buys are bad, but hard to resist when the wife is not only okaying it but pushing you to do it (assuming it is something you REALLY want).

Heh. Mine was planned for 8 months, I'm not much for impulses. But then, I spent $3k (on a $5k set), so I spent a lot of time just saving cash. You have a good wife :)

Well, until you follow my advice about hooking up the pc to it. That'll test the WAP (wife approval factor).

[Viin]

And just in case you didn't know, DVI and HDMI cables are pretty expensive if you get good ones (think approx $75). CompUSA had only one brand (Belkin I think) at $75 for a DVI cable, though some websites have cheaper versions for 25-30 bucks.

Anyone know the diff between DVI-I, DVI-D, and DVI-A?

If your cable box uses DVI for some reason, you can use a DVI<->HDMI cable, then you can use a DVI<->DVI cable from your computer to your screen.

-Edit-
By the way, it looks like the Sceptre 27" LCD at Costco dropped by $100, it's $899 now.

[Miguel]

Anyone know the diff between DVI-I, DVI-D, and DVI-A?

Don't quote me on this, but if memory servers, they are all on the same physical connector.

If you look closely at a DVI connector, you see two things:  one is an analog port, and the other is a digital pin matrix.  Hence you can transmit both analog and digital information on the same cable.

DVI-D implies that only the digital part of the connection is used
DVI-A implies that only the analog part of the connection is used
DVI-I implies that both are used ('integrated')

[schild]

For those of you that realize the cost of HDMI, take a trip to your local Best Buy. There's a couple 1080i scaling DVD players that come with a HDMI cable. They cost about $25 more than buying the most reasonably priced HDMI cable on the market. The DVD player I had experience with was solid (particularly through the HDMI connection). I believe it was a Toshiba and ran like $100 after tax.

Best way to buy an HDMI cable, me thinks.

I would have stepped into this conversation earlier, but I'm still sorta pissed that my TV doesn't do 720p and the Xbox 360 is 720p native. I can only hope it does 1080i as well.

[Viin]

DVI-D implies that only the digital part of the connection is used
DVI-A implies that only the analog part of the connection is used
DVI-I implies that both are used ('integrated')

Interesting. One of those sites that I linked sells them like they are different cables, which maybe makes sense for some of the conversions:

* DVI-A to 5 BNC
* DVI-A to DVI-A
* DVI-A to P&D (M1) Analog
* DVI-A to VGA
* DVI-D to DFP
* DVI-D to DVI-D Dual Link
* DVI-D to DVI-D Single Link
* DVI-D to P&D (M1) Digital
* DVI-I to DVI-I Dual Link
* DVI-I to DVI-I Single Link

I'm overwhelmed!    My TV just says DVI ..

[Polysorbate80]

If you upgrade to HDTV and your set-top box doesn't have a digital connector, bitch your cable company out mercilessly.  Component is a really, really good analog signal--but it *IS* analog.  You're no doubt paying extra for digital cable, and more for hi def signals; you shouldn't be forced to convert back to analog.

Then use the digital connection for your cable, and run the xbox through the component connection.

[Sky]

Well, of course he'll be hooking his pc to the tv! That's the DVI connection. I know Alluvian hasn't mentioned hooking up the pc yet. Alluvian needs to, to get my point ;)

As I said, the VGA port is a possibility, but the signal conversions make it blurrier than the extreme crispness of DVI's straight digital. I've found that the cable box is much more accommodating to signal conversions, mostly due to the lack of text. That's why I favored the component for the cable box.

If you aren't going to hook up the pc (boo!), then you definitely want to get a DVI-enabled cable box, if they are available in your area.

Also, digital cable is SD, it's going to look crappy no matter what you do to the signal, because you're still deinterlacing. The only impact is on the HD feeds, which, as I mentioned, is minimal compared to the pc conversions.

[Polysorbate80]

I'd never hook my PC to my television.  Of course, I'm not single--I have a wife & child competing for the tv; I'd never get to play games if I hooked it up that way :)

Digital standard def (aka DV) is still cleaner than analog NTSC.  Or rather, it would be, if it weren't completely riddled with artifacts from the compression the cable companies use to fit in more channels.  I wish they'd stop trying to feed me 400 channels of stuff I'll never watch and just use the bandwidth for 50 channels I might actually view once in a while.

[Alluvian]

The xbox does a crappy job at scaling, my tv does a great job. So when I was using my xbox as a dvd player, I wasn't concerned, thus I dunno :) I'm using my pc as a dvd player now. But for now, your image will look like shit because you aren't using component cables. Welcome to HD: GIGO (garbage in/garbage out).

Okay, I am having a SERIOUS problem now.

My xbox gameplay on composite (standard AV, one video RCA, two sound RCA) looked great.  DVD playback looked awesome.

Yesterday I got the composite high definition cables for the xbox.  I hooked it up and turned it on.  The dashboard looked like utter SHIT, totally washed out.  I did setup my settings to turn on all the resolutions as supported.  Some games looked great, some bad. 

Soul calibur 2 looked stunning in resolution but would didn't work in widescreen like I hear it is supposed to.  Great color, no problems.
Same thing with ESPN 2k5.  looked great, but didn't go into 16:9 like I hear it is supposed to.  (still looks nice streached to 16:9 but there is distortion)

Ninja gaiden worked fine in widescreen, no distortion, but the video was really badly washed out ingame.  The menus looked stunning, but the gameplay was WAY too bright and super washed out.  Turning down the brightness on the TV made the ingame stuff look good, but then the start button menu was super dark and hard to see.

Now the real problem.  I stuck in a DVD I just watched the day before with the composite connection, it looked STUNNING on my TV then.  With the component connection it looked AWFUL!  Horrible!  VERY washed out, way too bright, the blacks were grey at best, and there were verticle striped regions that were much brighter (maybe 10 or so verticle bright bars across the screen).  The bars were not sharply defined, but more of a brightness gradient.  Looked HIDEOUS.  I could not watch more than a few seconds before wanting to vomit.  My 8 year old $80 vcr gave me better video quality.

What is wrong?  Are the xbox cables fucked up?  Why then do some games look gorgeous?  Why do those hideous verticle brightness gradients exist during movie playback but not in any games?  Is it a television problem (video quality otherwise looks GREAT), a problem with those inputs on the TV, an Xbox problem???  I am baffled.

I really need to test the xbox on another component in screen to see if the error is in the TV, but I don't quite have a spare hdtv around.

Bottom line, to use my xbox right now I would have to keep the composite cables around so that I could watch dvds, because they are UNWATCHABLY bad using the component connections.  It makes no sense.  I have tried web searches for this type of problem, but all I find are people praising the component connections.  I am SOOOO frustrated.

One thing of note, although I don't know if it is important.  The pictues I had seen of the high def AV pack showed a short cable, going from the xbox to 5 female rca jacks for the component cable to be connected.  The one I found at best buy was microsoft, but it was a 5 foot or so cable that went from the Xbox connector directly to 5 male rca jacks ready to be plugged in to the TV input.

cable stuff (dvi)
I hooked up the new HD cable box to DVI.  I am having problems with aspect ratios being wrong, but there is a guy coming out to see what is up as the morons on the phone kept telling me to "change my tv to channel 3", even though I kept saying I am using DVI, there are no TV channels on the DVI input, I can turn my CABLE BOX to channel 3, but not my tv.  Hopefully this gets taken care of tomorrow when they are sending someone out or I will be pissed.


And I don't have any plans on hooking up my monitor right now.  Most of the time when the TV is on, I am also doing something on my computer.

[schild]

Sounds like you either need to get a new TV or tinker with the xbox.

Composite is ass, if you're happy with it and it works, I don't see why you can't stick with it. But it's ass. That said...

Go into settings on the TV. Make sure everything is set for standard television. You don't want your TV fighting with the settings and output sent from the xbox. Also, find out exactly what HDTV modes it supports.

Now go into the xbox video settings from the dashboard, change 480p, 720p and 1080i to the correct toggle (yes or no, depdending on what your tv supports). Now go turn on widescreen aspect - yes. That should do it for most games. Some games require you to go in and change the progressive scan setting in the 'video' section in game.

If that doesn't work, I'd go with getting a new TV, that scan line from the first post still sounds shitty to me.

[MrHat]

My xbox gameplay on composite (standard AV, one video RCA, two sound RCA) looked great.  DVD playback looked awesome.

Yesterday I got the composite high definition cables for the xbox.  I hooked it up and turned it on.  The dashboard looked like utter SHIT, totally washed out.  I did setup my settings to turn on all the resolutions as supported.  Some games looked great, some bad. 

You mean component HD cables?  Or composite high definition cables?

[Polysorbate80]

Which aspect ratios are wrong on the cable, the HD or the SD, or both?

[El Gallo]

As a TV technology ignoramus, what should I be looking for in a HDTV, as la gallina has been strongly suggesting that we get one?  Please use small words.

[Viin]

I'll try to keep it simple: big screen, good tech, good price, hd inputs available

First, find your price range. Second, figure out where you are going to put it (whats the biggest size? do you want to hang it on a wall?) Third, browse for what you can afford in the different types of TVs, ie: DLP rear-projection, LCD rear-projection, flatscreen LCD, flatscreen Plasma. Go to Bestbuy/Fry's/Whatever to actually see them in person.

As for what tech is better - well, they all have their ups and downs, but after reading a lot in the avsforum I prefer the DLP rear-projection TVs, particularly the new Samsungs.

[schild]

I'm still a big fan of CRTs. They still do black better than any other tech. And for gamers - well, I think that's a must. With the next console generation I think dynamic lighting and weather is going to play a big role in the advancements they make - and that means a lot of black.

LCD does a very nice dark grey tone. DLP does a very nice, uh, ugh, I hate me some DLP. Plasma just isn't there yet. LCD rear projection is nice, but overpriced - all things considered. Whatever you do, if you decide to go for a small projector, skip DLP completely - rainbows are terrible (and they're exactly what they sound like) and beeline for the LCD projectors. The tech there is getting better - but again, a very nice dark grey.

[Viin]

With the new DLP tech, they are using a 7-segment color wheel which is suppose to eliminate the rainbows (which some people don't see anyways). They are also boasting a Contrast Ratio of 10,000:1, which is suppose to make really awesome blacks.

One of the comments from a guy who saw the TVs in person at CES, regarding the contrast ratio:

10,000 to 1 as its listed on all of their product tags. The blacks were really incredible. Its blackety black and its black y'all. Comparing to the 720p set, the black levels were noticeably lower on the 1080p sets.

However, this is from their high end sets, the HLRxx78W's, which start at around $4,000 for a 50". They are also shipping (soon to be available - mid-May) HLRxx67W's with a contrast ratio of 2,500:1 with pricing starting at $2,500 for a 42" (this is the 720p TV the quote above mentions).

I'd really like to get one of the 78W's for the contrast ratio, but a touch pricey for me right now. Btw, this is all in the first post of the AVS Forum thread I link to above.

[Polysorbate80]

You can also save a few bucks by purchasing an HD monitor instead of an actual HDTV set; you will of course be relegated to using something like cable to view HD signals, but it chops several hundred $$$ off the cost of the set.

I too like CRTs best in regards to image quality, but if you're limited in space or want a really big screen, they're not friendly.  My 39(?)-inch Sony requires two fairly strong adults to lift, and it takes up a ginormous amount of space. Big tubes are also prone to developing problems in the corners; one of them on mine needs degaussing.  I never get around to it since I prefer my movies letterbox widescreen anyway (it's not a wide-screen tv) and the corner is just black in those cases.

[Alluvian]

My xbox gameplay on composite (standard AV, one video RCA, two sound RCA) looked great.  DVD playback looked awesome.

Yesterday I got the composite high definition cables for the xbox.  I hooked it up and turned it on.  The dashboard looked like utter SHIT, totally washed out.  I did setup my settings to turn on all the resolutions as supported.  Some games looked great, some bad. 

You mean component HD cables?  Or composite high definition cables?

I meant COMPONENT high def cables of course.  My brain likes to think one and type the other.

Schild, I don't LIKE composite as it can't do high def, but when I went to high def component movie playback was abyssmal.  The TV is still factory settings, and yes, I turned on all the toggles.

The television supports 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and a plethora of Television widescreen resolutions.

I just wish I knew what the problem was.  I will return the TV at least to fix the bad horizontal line, if it does not fix the component xbox problems I am baffled as to whether it is the xbox, the cable, or the tv that is bad.

[Sky]

Please bear with the Brucery:

The dashboard looked like utter SHIT, totally washed out.

You have to enable progressive scan dashboard. It's a Live update, and there's some funky button combo to enable it. Google is thy friend :)

Soul calibur 2 looked stunning in resolution but would didn't work in widescreen like I hear it is supposed to.

SC2 is widescreen at 480p, not 720p. I play it at 480p, widescreen > higher res in this case (imo).

I stuck in a DVD I just watched the day before with the composite connection, it looked STUNNING on my TV then.  With the component connection it looked AWFUL!

Could be a situation like mine, where your tv's scalar is superior to the xbox's (not difficult, the xbox sucks). When you upgraded the cables, I believe the xbox does it's own scaling and deinterlacing. But we were worried about your tv for other reasons...

I really need to test the xbox on another component in screen to see if the error is in the TV, but I don't quite have a spare hdtv around.

Take it to the B&M you bought it from. If you didn't buy it from a B&M where you can show up and chew people out, for shame. Anyway, try the xbox on a few other sets to get an idea for what's going on.

I am having problems with aspect ratios being wrong, but there is a guy coming out to see what is up as the morons on the phone kept telling me to "change my tv to channel 3", even though I kept saying I am using DVI, there are no TV channels on the DVI input, I can turn my CABLE BOX to channel 3, but not my tv.  Hopefully this gets taken care of tomorrow when they are sending someone out or I will be pissed.

Well, I wish I had good news for you...but cable guys know next to nothing at all about hd. I've educated  every guy that's come out to my house, and I have to know exactly what I need them to do, and I've taken to not letting them touch my equipment at all, just supervise as I make the changes. I've had very bad experience with Time Warner, ymmvbidi (but I doubt it ;)).

Not sure what you mean by aspect ratios being wrong, though. The cable guys are hardcore about pushing 'stretch' mode, personally I can't stand it. Had to take the remote from the last installer because he was screwing up all my settings. I don't mind pillarboxing (bars on the side to preserve 4:3 aspect), what bugs me is distorting the image, I can't believe some people can deal with that, or prefer it (beyond the burn-in prevention issues...DLP doesn't burn-in)

As a TV technology ignoramus, what should I be looking for in a HDTV, as la gallina has been strongly suggesting that we get one?  Please use small words.

Ditto what Viin said. I own a Samsung 61" DLP, the HLN617W, bought it in Nov. 2003. It's older technology, with only a 3 color wheel (some folks complain of seeing rainbows on fast pans, I don't see them, luckily), the tech is only better now. I'm still in total love with my tv/monitor. WoW is a much better game when it's 5' across ;)

I'm still a big fan of CRTs. They still do black better than any other tech. And for gamers - well, I think that's a must. With the next console generation I think dynamic lighting and weather is going to play a big role in the advancements they make - and that means a lot of black.

Meh. I played Thief 2 and DS just fine. Had to tweak gamma a little bit. It's not perfect, but I sure wouldn't dismiss DLP because of it, DLP has huge advantages over just about every other tech for gamers. If you don't trust me, take Viin's advice and camp out the avsforum, I did. Make an informed choice, get out and look at the sets yourself. I've seen everything on the market and DLP is still my choice, hands-down, no doubts or misgivings, despite it being a couple generations old and an 'inferior' DLP model. They are only better now. And cheaper.

CRT - smaller sets, and heavy. My 61" DLP weighs around 105lbs and I can easily move it myself (do it every now and again when I move furniture around). Not to mention the risk of burnin, a non-issue with DLP. I can fall asleep playing WoW without a thought of the UI burning into the screen (I do have something like 17 days /played, heh...gotta think about the UI burnin)

The television supports 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and a plethora of Television widescreen resolutions.

The important resolution for LCD (and DLP) is exactly as it is for LCD pc monitors: the native resolution, where everything is sharply pixel-perfect, not fuzzy. For instance, my tv is 720p native (1280x720x60Hz to be exact), so I don't enable 1080i, even though it would scale to 720p.

[Alluvian]

First off, LOTS of thanks to Sky and the others posting in this thread.  I am really going nuts trying to get this stuff working right.  I was SOOO pissed off last night thinking all would be GREAT with my TV finally having gotten all the proper inputs, only to find everything looked better (except the xbox video games) with the crappy inputs.

Well, I wish I had good news for you...but cable guys know next to nothing at all about hd. I've educated  every guy that's come out to my house, and I have to know exactly what I need them to do, and I've taken to not letting them touch my equipment at all, just supervise as I make the changes. I've had very bad experience with Time Warner, ymmvbidi (but I doubt it ).

Not sure what you mean by aspect ratios being wrong, though. The cable guys are hardcore about pushing 'stretch' mode, personally I can't stand it. Had to take the remote from the last installer because he was screwing up all my settings. I don't mind pillarboxing (bars on the side to preserve 4:3 aspect), what bugs me is distorting the image, I can't believe some people can deal with that, or prefer it (beyond the burn-in prevention issues...DLP doesn't burn-in)

Okay, I was watching some HD national geographic show.  It was widescreen (the following holds true for all widescreen HD I have seen so far coming from the cable box).

The television was set to 16:9 aspect ratio.  The image filled up the width of the screen fine, but only used about half of the vertical image (1/4 of the screen at the top and bottom was black).  The image is also visibly stretched horizontally (short/fat looking people).

Pressing the zoom key on the cable box remote does nothing in this aspect ratio.

I can change the television aspect ratio to 4:3 and then the proportions are right, but there are huge borders now on the top, bottom, left, and right.  The proporortions match my television, but it is like my TV is half its size as I now have a small little image inside my large screen.  Pressing the zoom key now on the cable box zooms in on the image so that it is still proportionate and the image is the right size.  There are now black bars on the right and left of the image put there by the TV (due to the 4:3 ratio it is displaying in).  These black bars are covering up everything on the right and left that are outside of the 4:3 "picture frame".  It was easy to see the missing space because of how the screen cut off the 'national geographic' logo in the corner.

So no settings I can find will actually let widescreen fit my screen.

SC2 is widescreen at 480p, not 720p. I play it at 480p, widescreen > higher res in this case (imo).

Aha, that makes sense.  Is there a way I can make SC2 display in 480p widescreen without going to the dashboard and turning off 720p as a supported resolution?

I stuck in a DVD I just watched the day before with the composite connection, it looked STUNNING on my TV then.  With the component connection it looked AWFUL!

Could be a situation like mine, where your tv's scalar is superior to the xbox's (not difficult, the xbox sucks). When you upgraded the cables, I believe the xbox does it's own scaling and deinterlacing. But we were worried about your tv for other reasons...

I figured out the dashboard problem before I posted actually (both triggers and both thumbsticks) but wanted to keep the post less confusing.

So, let me try and understand this...
When I was using the original Xbox composite connections to the DVD, the TELEVISION did the scaling to 480i, and all was good, right?
Now when I hook up the fancy shmancy HD component connection to the TV, the XBOX thinks it is the best thing since sliced bread and scales the image to 480i on it's own, does a shitty assed job, and then the TV just displays the shitty image it is sent?

This is making sense to me.  I did some toggling between the 480i and 480p modes for the dashboard and I think the washed out SHIT look is the same thing that is going wrong with my DVD playback...  would that be verification that the problem is in the fact that the xbox does a shit tastic job sending out a 480i output?

[Polysorbate80]

That last bit is more-or-less correct, with some correction:  The XBox isn't scaling anything to 480i, that's native standard definition vertical resolution.  That's what it was sending out the composite output, which your TV recognized and displayed properly.

Now the XBox is trying to output HD (480p or more) and *is* scaling the image.  Even worse, due to the issues it sounds like your TV is having it might be re-scaling the image again, on top of whatever the XBox is doing.  Two wrongs, no right, etc.

I think that's what you actually meant, but got the i and p mixed up...?

If you really don't mind the analog picture quality, a DVD player hooked to your S-video input won't look any worse than the original XBox composite output.

[Alluvian]

That last bit is more-or-less correct, with some correction:  The XBox isn't scaling anything to 480i, that's native standard definition vertical resolution.  That's what it was sending out the composite output, which your TV recognized and displayed properly.

Now the XBox is trying to output HD (480p or more) and *is* scaling the image.  Even worse, due to the issues it sounds like your TV is having it might be re-scaling the image again, on top of whatever the XBox is doing.  Two wrongs, no right, etc.

I think that's what you actually meant, but got the i and p mixed up...?

If you really don't mind the analog picture quality, a DVD player hooked to your S-video input won't look any worse than the original XBox composite output.

I don't really fully understand what is going on, that is why I made the mistake, heh.  I am still trying to figure out why the playback looked good with the default composite output, and was trying to walk myself through it.  I guess I still don't really understand what is going on.

[Trippy]

As a TV technology ignoramus, what should I be looking for in a HDTV, as la gallina has been strongly suggesting that we get one?  Please use small words.

Try reading this as a start:

http://money.howstuffworks.com/tv-buying-guide.htm

[Alluvian]

Figured out my aspect ratio issues.  There was an unlabeled button on my cable box that had a menu for setting what aspect ration the  TV was in.

I can't BELIEVE they didn't tell me about that on the F-ing phone.

BAH.  Probably need a new DVD player though.

It looks fine on composite input but awful (washed out with vertical brighness bars across the screen) with the composite connectors.  Probably due to the lack of progressive scan on the xbox or something I don't really understand, heh.

Also wondering if there is a way to get SC2 to play in 480P widescreen without turning off 780p in the dashboard....

[Sky]

Is there a way I can make SC2 display in 480p widescreen without going to the dashboard and turning off 720p as a supported resolution?

Nope.

There was an unlabeled button on my cable box that had a menu for setting what aspect ration the  TV was in.

I can't BELIEVE they didn't tell me about that on the F-ing phone.

I wasn't being facetious or exaggerating when I said cable company employees don't know shit about HD. They really don't. The last two installers I had suggested I put my business card in their office and do HD installations around the region. If I didn't despise the idea of customer service, I'd do it in a second.

It's hard to troubleshoot display issues without seeing the display. Even then, I'm not a great troubleshooter because my stuff 'just works'. I had fully researched all the defects of my own display before buying it, as well. But something sounds fishy, I'm pretty sure my xbox looked much better with DVD playback over component cables. I just forget how I had it all set up back then (xbox in cold storage for a long time now).

Have you spent time at the avsforum? You need to. At least for the tv forums, you'll probably find a lot about your set over there. Indispensible resource imo.

[murdoc]

Sooo... I'm really far behind on the learning curve with this sort of stuff and on one Hell of a small budget to purchase a new TV.

I've done some looking and have come across a Toshiba set that fits well within the budget (ignore the suggest MSRP on the page, I can get it MUCH cheaper then that)


http://www.toshiba.ca/web/product.grp?lg=en&section=2&group=6&product=3350

Now, if someone does mind looking and that and plainly telling me what it can and can't do and if there's something else I should be looking for in a TV?

This TV will be used mostly for movies and and the xbox. Rarely do we watch cable tv other than football, so it'd be nice to do HD NFL Sunday Ticket. Will this TV work for that? Would love some input, either good or bad.

Thanks

[Polysorbate80]

I'm pretty sure my xbox looked much better with DVD playback over component cables. I just forget how I had it all set up back then (xbox in cold storage for a long time now).

It *should* look better...but hair-yanking disparities between "what it should do" and "what it does do" are common problems in the video world.  Not just consumer electronics either, I still get more moments of "wtf is this piece of crap doing NOW" than I ought to.

Anyways,  it should just pass the 480i signal through the component cables (after all, you could be connecting them to a TV that's not high-definition) and let the display deal with it--but it may not be doing that, since you've got the higher-resolution options turned on, so it knows you're not feeding a standard TV.  I don't have an XBox myself to play with, so I really can't say for certain.

Test:  if you take your XBox back to standard definition (turn off the HD options) what does your output look like on the TV, through the component cables?

[HaemishM]

Threads like these make me glad I don't have the money to be an early HD adopter.

[Viin]

http://www.toshiba.ca/web/product.grp?lg=en&section=2&group=6&product=3350

Probably work just fine, but I'd never buy it because "   Cabinet: 47-3/4"W x 50-1/2"H x 22-1/2"D, 169 lbs. ". 169 lbs! How the heck do you expect to move this beast? Hopefully you don't live in an older house with small doorways and narrow stairs.

I would make sure you've seen it work in person, make sure there's not anything you don't like about the picture, size, remote, menu, etc.

One thing to look for is view angles. Make sure you can see it easily enough from where you are going to be sitting (height matters too).

[murdoc]

Yeah, the weight of the sucker doesn't make me happy, but with the budget I'm restricted to it's hard to find something lighter. I've gone in and looked at it a few times and am pretty happy with the view angles and the image seems pretty damn good as far as I'm concerned.

I need to grab a couple of my own DVDs however and take them in and have them give them a spin.

[Viin]

Murdoc: if I was you I'd try to get your hands on one of these:

Samsung HL-P5063W

It's last year's model, so they will probably give you a good discount on one of these. I haven't been following the other thin/light rear-projection tv's too much, but same thing applies to those.

Ideally you should go to someplace that works off commission (not like BestBuy), they will have a harder time selling the older sets once the new ones are in so are more likely to cut you a deal. (So, state up front: hey, I hear the new Samsung DLPs are coming out next month .. but I don't want to wait that long, can I get a deal on one of last year's models?)

Just my two cents.

[Sky]

Now, if someone does mind looking and that and plainly telling me what it can and can't do and if there's something else I should be looking for in a TV?

Well, that's up for debates, heh. I prefer a progressive scan image for sports, many do, that set is 1080i. Sorry to be repetetive, but avsforum is really the place to do the research, there are too many variables and opinions to easily cover. If you're not going to hook the pc up (for shame!) I'll hold off on my DLP fanboism, since it's largely from ease of use and lack of burnin with a pc, though they are great in every aspect imo.

HDTheaterWide Modes (480i/480p/1080i)

So no 720p at all. Deal-killer if you were to think about hooking up that pc...and I just don't personally care for interlaced images.

I'm not sure what tech they are using, HDSC? Never heard of it. Red flag imo, but again, you need to spend the time doing some hard research, the only way to be sure of what you're getting, good and bad. As I said, I knew the major defects of my set and balanced that against the many positives, and luckily, the biggest negatives of my set are totally inconsequential (I don't see rainbows (and that's been remedied by tech since), and the black levels are perfectly acceptable imo (and that's also been remedied in later versions)). But you need to know what the downsides are and make sure you can live with them (it's a lot of money imo).

On the immediate downside, there is no DVI nor VGA port. VGA is optional, since you're not hooking the pc up (for shame again! :)), and you might get lucky with HDMI support in your area, but right now it seems most gear is DVI if it has a pure digital option. But HDMI is the next tech in line, so it's fairly future-proof. I guess you could live with component cables until you get an HDMI cable box and not really notice (until you've seen the pure digital path).

Since you can get it cheaper, I won't link the set I'd get for that MSRP, the Samsung 50" DLP. I just love the technology, and I've been living with it daily for a year and a half now.

Threads like these make me glad I don't have the money to be an early HD adopter.

I disagree completely. It seems complex, but with a couple months of surfing avsforum I was able to get a tv that didn't have the hassles the majority of hdtvs have. So in that, I agree, I guess. If you don't take the time to learn about them, it's EASY to get a stinker, even unintentionally (like if you were intending to use a pc on the set murdoc is considering, f'rinstance, it's decent in other aspects btu totally deficient in that one).

The biggest "hurdle" I had to jump was downloading a piece of shareware (powerstrip), and making a monitor driver for windows that had my tv's information in it. Click auto-detect, click create monitor driver, save, install monitor driver normally through windows. Maybe 30 seconds. Then uninstalled powerstrip, didn't look back since (some people really tweak a lot with powerstrip, though).

Anyway, for the last year as an "early adopter", I've been playing WoW, HL2, Doom3, EQ2, Planetside, BF:V/1942, Vampire:Bloodlines and every other game on a honkin' big screen while everyone else I play with/against is huddled up to a desk and tiny monitor. I can't say enough about how totally worth it my DLP purchase was, I'd make the same decision every time, no buyer's remorse whatsoever.

And finally:

(3 new replies, heh - my 61" sammy DLP weighs around 105 lbs...I really do highly recommend them if you can afford a decent sized set (50+ imo)