I am an HDTV total newb, help please

[murdoc]

To be honest, my best bet is to make do with my 32" tv and save up the extra coin to get into a DLP set. I'm a big fan of the Samsung DLPs and with some shopping around I think I can do the 50" DLP for a decent price that wouldn't take too much longer to get the difference between that and what I have in my budget. Remeber also Sky, that MSRP is in Canadian fund too.  It's hard since I can get that Toshiba tv for $1600 Canadian which seems like a pretty decent price for what seems like a nice tv (according to the avsforums even ;) ). I just have to make sure I don't screw myself over for further down the line when I do have more cash to play with and want to keep up with the Joneses technologically speaking.

I've tried poking around the avsforum and I think I really need to sit down and spend some real time not only reading about the different TVs, but the different technologies before I make the decision. The problem I have is that I'm way to rash in my purchases, which I have to curb.

I'm quite happy with my other components. I have a brand new (to me anyways) Yamaha receiver with a 5.1 set of Energy Speakers. But all the new room I have in the basement of my new house is screaming at me to match it up with a suitable TV!

[murdoc]

Murdoc: if I was you I'd try to get your hands on one of these:

Samsung HL-P5063W

It's last year's model, so they will probably give you a good discount on one of these. I haven't been following the other thin/light rear-projection tv's too much, but same thing applies to those.

Ideally you should go to someplace that works off commission (not like BestBuy), they will have a harder time selling the older sets once the new ones are in so are more likely to cut you a deal. (So, state up front: hey, I hear the new Samsung DLPs are coming out next month .. but I don't want to wait that long, can I get a deal on one of last year's models?)

Just my two cents.

I can get the same model in 46" for about $800 CDN more than the Toshiba 51".

[Sky]

I've tried poking around the avsforum and I think I really need to sit down and spend some real time not only reading about the different TVs, but the different technologies before I make the decision. The problem I have is that I'm way to rash in my purchases, which I have to curb.

Yep, that's your best bet. If the folks at avs are generally liking the set, you'll probably be just fine. Like I said, the biggest "problems" are the lack of pc inputs (vga/dvi) and my preference for 720p sets over 1080i/540p. Certainly does seem like a pretty good deal, the biggest scam to watch for is EDTVs, that only do 480p or similar, and I'd be wary of non-standar resolutions - HD standards being 1080i/720p, maybe 1080p counts as HD, I forget, but NOT 480p, despite misinformation that sales folks are more than happy to espouse, unfortunately, whether by ignorance or pushing low end sets.

Also, if you think about DLP, make sure to spend some time viewing a couple models in the store, to be sure you aren't susceptible to the rainbow issues. They should be totally ironed out with more segmentation on the color wheel, but I don't see them on my set. Apparently it's a real problem for some folks, and has become a highly rumored problem, as well (perceptions of folks who haven't watched a DLP set). I was totally worried until I sat down and watched a set at CC for an hour or so.

And I'm kind of a prick when it comes to this kind of thing, because my philosphy is to wait until you can buy the good model. I could've bought the 46" model 6 months before I finally got mine, but I knew that I'd go nuts if I spent $2500 (or whatever they were then) only to have that nagging though "If I had only waited 6 more months, I'd have a 61" model...". The wait was totally worth it, because, as I said, I have zero buyer's remorse. That's so rare as to be impossible for me, I love my new guitar, but there are a couple frets I need worked on, a small amount of remorse there. Yet none for the tv, which is why I go all fanboi about it ;) Spent the extra months researching on avsforum :) I don't get compensation for the endorsements, btw....

If money is a concern, look into projectors, as well, if it's going in the basement and you have a good wall to screen on. Then you are gaming in feet, not inches :) Make sure you note projector's lumens and resolutions, as well as hookups.

[El Gallo]

The spot we'd put the TV could not support one much more than 30 inches, if that, so the uber dino-TV's are out for us.  Anyone have luck with a particular brand/model in the smaller sizes?  I don't want to drop more than 2k, but I am obviously open to dropping much less if the difference in quality is small/nonexistent.  Really, we just want DVD's, football and hockey (if it ever returns) to look better.

[murdoc]

If money is a concern, look into projectors, as well, if it's going in the basement and you have a good wall to screen on. Then you are gaming in feet, not inches :) Make sure you note projector's lumens and resolutions, as well as hookups.

Actually, I'm presently trying to learn more about projectors as friends of mine have an extra 104" screen when they got double what they ordered for their projector. Not too often some says 'I got an extra 104" screen if you want it'. The problem with a projector, for me at least, is that the basement isn't going to be completely finished for awhile. It'll be finished enough to have a TV sitting down on the floor, but to do the projector up like I would like, I'm looking at a good year+ and I'm not sure my patience can last that long.

I'm really finding the TV to be the hardest part to chose. I am 100% confident in my receiver and speakers, but there's so many options for TVs that it's sorta throwing me for a loop.

Also, what is the 'rainbow effect'?

[Viin]

The spot we'd put the TV could not support one much more than 30 inches, if that, so the uber dino-TV's are out for us.  Anyone have luck with a particular brand/model in the smaller sizes?  I don't want to drop more than 2k, but I am obviously open to dropping much less if the difference in quality is small/nonexistent.  Really, we just want DVD's, football and hockey (if it ever returns) to look better.

The LCD flat screens are a good choice. I bought the Sceptre 30" LCD Flatscreen from Costco, just to try it out (because you can return it anytime you want - no questions) and I really like it.

The only problem is that it's online order only, so you'd have to order it, get it, and set it up to check it out. But then you can take it to your closest Costco if you don't like it. And the only other problem I've had with it is that there is no code in the Tivo book for the Tivo remote to control the TV - but that was fixed with a universal learning remote.

But, go to Circuit City or Best Buy and check out their flat screens 30" or less. Some of them have pretty crappy screens, but others are pretty sharp (some of that has to do with bad image feeds). Most are 2k or less (except the plasma's).

[Viin]

Also, what is the 'rainbow effect'?

Just what it says.   :-D

Some people see a rainbow of colors on white things if they move too fast across the screen. Ie: white car drives from left to right fairly quickly, some people will see a hue of rainbow colors on the white.

[Hokers]

I recently bought one of these: http://hometheater.about.com/cs/television/fr/olevialt30hva.htm for less than $900 on a special.  Could not be happier.  Sharp, cheap, and had enough inputs for my cable, computer and x-box.

The original plan was to get one of the new generation Samsung DLP's.  Had to go with plan b because the old entertainment center would not fit through the bedroom door.  I spent a lot of time resurching the Samsungs and was totally sold on them.

[Trippy]

Also, what is the 'rainbow effect'?

You can see a "simulation" of it here:

ftp://ftp.extremetech.com/pub/extremetech/displays/SamsungHLN4365WRainbowClip.wmv

Note that this is just a simulation since *everybody* can see the rainbow effect in that clip since its taking advantage of the slow shutter speed on the video camera to capture the effect. It's sort of like how you can see the scan line on computer monitors in television programming if things aren't sync'd properly.

As others have said, some people can see the effect and some people can't. My sister's boyfriend bought a top-of-the-line Sharp DLP TV and was massively disappointed after it was delivered and found out he could see the effect (though my sister can't see it at all) and ended up returning it. If you go to a store to check this out in person you may want to bring your own source material along since this effect is enhanced under certain conditions such as white/bright objects against a dark background or said objects moving across the screen like Viin said. Watching the scrolling end credits is apparently a good test for this. Some of the Matrix scenes are also apparently very good at triggering this effect. And just like in the video simulation above, moving your head and eyes around can trigger the effect where starring at the screen with your eyes fixed might not.

This problem is roughly analogous to the flickering some people can see on computer monitors. I, for example, can instantly tell when a monitor has been set to 60 Hz even when not under fluorescent lights but I can eliminate the flicker I can see by increasing the refresh rate on the monitor (assuming the video card allows it). Similarly there are now DLP sets that either spin the color wheel faster or have more segments on the color wheel or both which effectively increases the "refresh rate" of the image which can reduce or eliminate the rainbow effect for a particular viewer. There are also high end DLP sets that use 3 chips and so they don't have a color wheel at all.

[Sky]

Rainbows are an artifact of the 'color wheel'. Basically, a DLP beams white light onto the DMD (not the DHD, Daniel Jackson) or digital micromirror device, a postage stamp sized doohickey with a few million mirrors on it. These mirrors  swivel from full on (white) to full off (black) and many points between for greys. This beam of light is then passed through the color wheel, which is a wheel with color segmentation (RGB) that spins quickly providing color. It creates the illusion of static color, but it's really being laid down in parts.

In certain situations, like a very bright torch in a very dark hallway, this can become noticeable at the borders of the white object. I can see it if I try to, the easiest way to see them (really, though, if you don't notice it, don't go looking, heh) is to use a THX calibration disc (on a lot of DVDs, maybe all with THX) and use the white ring portion. Staring at the white circle, quickly flit your eyes left and right, you'll see a rainbow trail as your eyes move faster than the color wheel lays down the colors.

[El Gallo]

NECROPOST

Well, we are finally buying one, and I was wondering if any of the technophiles around here had any advice on this TV:

http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/DLPTV/HLR5688WXXAA.asp

http://www.tvauthority.com/DLP-TV-HDTV/Samsung-HL-R5688W.asp

I presume this TV will render both 720p and 1080i in HD and not merely in EDTV, right? 

Is the 1080p a waste?  It seems like it should be better than either 720p or 1080i, but does anything use it?

What pitfalls should I be aware of?  Can I get a TV that is as good for less than $3k?

[Sky]

Woohoo! I my Sammy DLP. As some may have heard.

I presume this TV will render both 720p and 1080i in HD and not merely in EDTV, right? 

Yes. The set is 1080p native. An EDTV is 480p native. My set is 720p native, but also displays 1080i beautifully (good internal scaler).

Is the 1080p a waste?

Imo, no. But my opinion is that it should be your gaming monitor. If you're just talking DVDs (480i), HDTV (720p/1080i), maybe. The xbox360 is 720p native, but iirc Sony said the PS3 supports 1080p? I forget and I'm too lazy to look it up :)

I also think I got my explanation above mixed up, when I had the set apart it looked like it went through the color wheel before the DMD.

Pitfalls same as for my tv, but less so because the tech is better. Better black levels, less rainbow effect, etc.

[Morfiend]

Woohoo! I my Sammy DLP. As some may have heard.

I presume this TV will render both 720p and 1080i in HD and not merely in EDTV, right? 

Yes. The set is 1080p native. An EDTV is 480p native. My set is 720p native, but also displays 1080i beautifully (good internal scaler).

Is the 1080p a waste?

Imo, no. But my opinion is that it should be your gaming monitor. If you're just talking DVDs (480i), HDTV (720p/1080i), maybe. The xbox360 is 720p native, but iirc Sony said the PS3 supports 1080p? I forget and I'm too lazy to look it up :)

I also think I got my explanation above mixed up, when I had the set apart it looked like it went through the color wheel before the DMD.

Pitfalls same as for my tv, but less so because the tech is better. Better black levels, less rainbow effect, etc.

My TV supports 1080p, and yeah, the PS3 is supposed to play it.

I myself am not sold on DLP. I just think it really tends to artifact a lot more on SD signals. So if you plan to watch much SDTV, you will notice a difference. After I got HD Cable, I always check the HD channels first, and then the movie channels, and only after that do I watch SD channels. My TV pretty much is always on HD channels except for the few shows I cant get in HD (Nip/Tuck, the Shield, Daily Show). I absolutly love the IN-HD and IN-HD2 channels. They are really beautiful.

I havent bought the Xbox HD pack, because I plan on getting an Xbox 360. The only complaint I have about my TV (Sony SXRD 60) is that it only has 2 component inputs, so I am using S-video for Xbox and PS2 right now. I am going to have to make a cut some where when I get my 360.

After being sick all last week, and sitting on my couch watching TV the majority of the time, I really love my HD more than before.

[Xilren's Twin]

Woohoo! I my Sammy DLP. As some may have heard.

Me too.  Two general questions.

I was fooling around with hooking my pc up to my set with an s video cable i had around (besides, my DVI/HDMI input is taken by my upcoding DVD player) and I finally figured out in order to get it to work, i had to go into my video card setting and tell it to use my TV as the primary display.  Well, the got the picture on, but of course blanked my monitor (and it looked very crappy and soft too).  I have a 128 MB geforce fx at the moment.

Are you using your set as the primary display for your pc, and what video card are you using?

Secondly, have you ever noticed some lipsyncing issues.  Some shows are awful for the sound not matching up with peoples lip movements no matter if i run the sound through my TV or sound system?

Xilren.

[Xilren's Twin]

I was fooling around with hooking my pc up to my set with an s video cable i had around (besides, my DVI/HDMI input is taken by my upcoding DVD player) and I finally figured out in order to get it to work, i had to go into my video card setting and tell it to use my TV as the primary display.  Well, the got the picture on, but of course blanked my monitor (and it looked very crappy and soft too).  I have a 128 MB geforce fx at the moment.
Are you using your set as the primary display for your pc, and what video card are you using?

Nevermind the first part.  I hooked it up using a standard VGA cable so the comp would act like I had two monitors, then just cloned the display.  It looks perfecet now at 1024x768.  Next step, wireless kb and mouse and im gaming from the couch.  :-D

Xilren

[Raph]

Secondly, have you ever noticed some lipsyncing issues.  Some shows are awful for the sound not matching up with peoples lip movements no matter if i run the sound through my TV or sound system?

Xilren.

I've noticed lag under various conditions -- depending on whether I'm using the TV's scaling or not seems to be the biggest one, also where the signal is coming from. It's not sound lag, it's video lag. I have Dreamcast, XBox, PS2, Gamecube all running into an S-Video switcher and then S-Video the TV, a PC running in on DVI, and digital cable and DVD both running in on component. I usually notice the sound lag on the games if the TV is also set to stretch the game image. Usually only matters in rhythm games, though I am playing Guitar Hero that way and just learned to listen to the music rather than time it visually.

[schild]

You have an Xbox, PS2, and Gamecube not running on component?!

RAPH, WHY?

[Raph]

Because we have two component ins, and the DVD and the HD cable get them. Never gone looking for a component switcher, but I figured once we get an XBox 360, I'll eventually get one. But even for that, there's still one spot left open on the S-Video switcher.

Then again, once Revolution and PS3 come out, I'll need two more. :P Then I'll have to find some new way of switching. None of the older stuff is getting unhooked, you see. :)

[Signe]

Revolution?  You mean the dancing game?  I know you don't mean that but if you did, I'd be your best friend for pics!  You would be my first google image ever.  I think.

[Raph]

I meant Nintendo's new console, whatever they call it when it comes out.

That said, I do have in my collection Dance Dance Revolution, DDR Konamix, DDR Disney Mix, DDR Max, DDR Max 2, DDR Extreme, DDR Extreme 2, In the Groove, two DDR mats (one nicer than the other) and Pump It Up with its own custom mat.

I've lost over 30 pounds in aggregate playing them too, so there.

I have played Randy Farmer (of Habitat fame) in public, and Philip Rosedale (the main Linden guy) at State of Play. Photographs were indeed taken. They fortunately do not seem to be on the web.

[schild]

Because we have two component ins, and the DVD and the HD cable get them. Never gone looking for a component switcher, but I figured once we get an XBox 360, I'll eventually get one. But even for that, there's still one spot left open on the S-Video switcher.

Then again, once Revolution and PS3 come out, I'll need two more. :P Then I'll have to find some new way of switching. None of the older stuff is getting unhooked, you see. :)

This is some weak sauce. My friend, just go get a component switcher. I really can't believe I just read what I read. I realize you probably don't get much time to play and when you do play games YOU want to play it's at the office. But still, comeon! Gaming in hi-def is better than watching most TV in hi-def. Let alone a switcher with 8-10 slots is going to run you maybe $90-$100.

[Raph]

Well, plus all the component cables for all the systems, it's a bit more. :)

It'd be nice if I had an amplifier that took that many component connections, but there don't seem to be any that don't cost what a used car does.

[schild]

I'm pretty sure you're not buying $1,000 cars. Go get yourself an Integra receiver or something. :P

[Xerapis]

I'm pretty sure you're not buying $1,000 cars. Go get yourself an Integra receiver or something. :P

Actually, the military runs a rather wonderful person-to-person used car thingy here.

You can buy a car which will get you from point A to point B reliably for around $500 US.

Ah, the joys of sending people somewhere for one year and not letting them take their "real car" with them.

[Sky]

You people disgust me. S-Video? You do know the S stands for shit, yes?

I'm hoping Raph doesn't mention DVI because that's how you connect your pc for that sweet, sweet DLP gaming.

I get the audio sync problems every now and again on a couple stations, very rare though (but it's usually PBS, one of my favorites). Never had it with my xbox via component, have heard it's common with the PS2.

Did I hear Raph say he's hooking up his 720p 360 to his 720p DLP via SVIDEO?!? You, sir, are batshit insane.

[schild]

I'd rather my games look prettier than my actors and actresses look uglier. Have you seen Cameron Diaz in hi-def? Have you seen CoD 2 in hi-def? Just putting that out there.

[Raph]

I don't have a 360. Yet.

S-Video is significantly better than the stock video cable. :P It's only crappy relative to component.

And I drive a 1997 Saturn.

[Shockeye]

And I drive a 1997 Saturn.

If you wouldn't spend all your money at Station Exchange, maybe you could afford a newer vehicle.

Which reminds me, do SOE employees get a discount at Station Exchange?

[Polysorbate80]

Actually, the military runs a rather wonderful person-to-person used car thingy here.

You can buy a car which will get you from point A to point B reliably for around $500 US.

Ah, the joys of sending people somewhere for one year and not letting them take their "real car" with them.

You happen to be in Korea?  I remember a *lot* of those things for sale around Yongsan...

[Strazos]

I hear Korean girls dig American guys who are not dicks.

Kind of like Australian women.

[Raph]

And I drive a 1997 Saturn.

If you wouldn't spend all your money at Station Exchange, maybe you could afford a newer vehicle.

Which reminds me, do SOE employees get a discount at Station Exchange?

Actually, SOE employees cannot even visit the Station Exchange website, and definitely cannot transact on it.

[Shockeye]

And I drive a 1997 Saturn.

If you wouldn't spend all your money at Station Exchange, maybe you could afford a newer vehicle.

Which reminds me, do SOE employees get a discount at Station Exchange?

Actually, SOE employees cannot even visit the Station Exchange website, and definitely cannot transact on it.

They're pushing you towards IGE. That's wrong.

[Murgos]

Actually, the military runs a rather wonderful person-to-person used car thingy here.

You can buy a car which will get you from point A to point B reliably for around $500 US.

Ah, the joys of sending people somewhere for one year and not letting them take their "real car" with them.

You happen to be in Korea?  I remember a *lot* of those things for sale around Yongsan...

edit:  Heh, I didn't realize Soju went back to the Mongols.  Good stuff that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soju

[schild]

I'd never heard of Soju. I'll get some at the asian market tomorrow.

[El Gallo]

I presume this TV will render both 720p and 1080i in HD and not merely in EDTV, right? 

My concern was that I heard that some HDTV's can only handle either 720 or 1080, and when they encounter the other kind of signal they just render it at 480.  Is that not true anymore, or only true of cheap sets?  What spec should I look for to indicate that a particular 720 set will display 1080 in HD or a particular 1080 will display 720 in HD? 

As for connections, most of the sets I have seen have 1 HDMI, 1 DVI and 2 component inputs (plus a few S-Video and composite, so that shouldn't be a problem hooking up the cable, dvd, tivo and a console on a good connection, no?  (Am I right that it basically goes HDMI>DVI>Component>S-Vid>Composite, or is it more complicated than that [i.e. different connections are better for different input devices?].

 I'll have to dig around avsforum until I actually understand this crap before pulling the trigger on anything.  The angst!