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Morfiend
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on: April 20, 2005, 03:48:29 PM

To cut right to the point, how is the advancement rate now-a-days?

I played at release, and it really seemed to slow to a total crawl after about lvl 12. A huge crawling Grind. I really am missing the mechanics though, and was wondering what sort of time invested it would take to reach the end game content. Not that I dont enjoy the leveling proccess, it just seemed so much of the same thing over and over, that I got totally sick of it.

Have they sped up the level rate at all?
stray
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Reply #1 on: April 20, 2005, 03:59:21 PM

 cry
Sobelius
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Reply #2 on: April 20, 2005, 04:09:28 PM

If CoH implemented WoW's rate of advancement, I'd be playing CoH a lot more often.

As it is CoH advancement is still sloooooooow. To make matters worse, Statesman and co. seem to be taking a page from EQ1 and adding unnecessary difficulty and grindage (there's a thread here elsewhere about this I can't be bothered to find at the moment).

WoW advancement rate is the best I've experienced, given that I'm a professional who doesn't have more than 10 hours a week to play, on average. I started WoW a month ago and have a level 34 main and a smattering of alts level 10 or lower.

In CoH, I've played since release and have two characters in their mid 20's and a dozen level 14 or lower alts. I kept going back and playing alts because the advancement rate from 1-14 was so much better than anything after 14. And unfortunately, CoH's zones and villains and instanced missions tend to feel very similar after a while.

But I still play...just not as often as I wish I did.

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Llava
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Reply #3 on: April 20, 2005, 07:06:08 PM

Advancement can be slow.  It's way better if you have a group of friends to play with, but since most people don't then you should assume it's about as slow as previously.

That is one thing I do miss about WoW.  That and playing on the auction house.

Unless you're really into doing lots and lots of missions, CoH will feel very grindy.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
CmdrSlack
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Reply #4 on: April 20, 2005, 07:51:44 PM

I've found it's faster now that they have increased the xp payouts from missions.  I got about 4500xp doing a mission with my lv 26 scrapper today....500 for each computer I clicked (5) and 2000 for completing.  Not too shabby.  Plus, with the mission sliders, you can up the level of the mobs in the missions and that obviously = more xp as well.

I traded in my fun blog for several legal blogs. Or, "blawgs," as the cutesy attorney blawgosphere likes to call 'em.
MaceVanHoffen
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Reply #5 on: April 20, 2005, 10:34:23 PM

I'll be the token person who thinks the advancement in CoH is pretty fast.  I haven't really played WoW much, so I can't compare it.  But I have one level 50 hero (Mace, my namesake), another one on the way, and scores of heroes in their 30's.  I'm in no way a catass.  However, I never streethunt.  I only do missions and taskforces (I do have to get a little catass-y for those), and I group whenever I'm able.
Strazos
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Reply #6 on: April 20, 2005, 10:59:11 PM

Feels grindy to me, so I don't play much anymore, and my sub is up at the end of May.

I'm a scrapper, so unfortunately, it's usually better for me to solo missions rather than group.

WoW has almost totally turned me off to random grouping. People can't have nice things, but apparently, stupid people still have internet access and their mom's CC.

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eldaec
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Reply #7 on: April 21, 2005, 12:46:24 AM

1-8 a few hours in total.

8-14 a couple of hours each.

14-20 a few hours each.

20-30 several hours each. (very dependant on getting your SOs set right first time)

30-40 half a level per evening.

40-50 slower.

All the above assume an effort is being made to advance, meaning you are either running a pick up group (pick up groups are hard work but effective so long as you run them yourself and try to keep it balanced and in the 3-6 person range), in a group of friends or an sg group, or soloing a character that can solo at your current level and has been built to do so (scrappers, energy/fire tankers, some defenders, controllers post-pets).

Time spent fannying about having fun in the arena, in a pick group led by Baron von Fuckwit, or going on badge collection tours is obviously additional to the above.

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tar
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Reply #8 on: April 21, 2005, 02:14:29 AM

Also, I find it depends on whether you have stamina or some other kind of endurance-boosting power. If you don't, then the grind is about twice as bad.
Llava
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Reply #9 on: April 21, 2005, 02:49:48 AM

I think the grind feeling isn't so bad for a scrapper, because of how well you solo.  My 50 is a Scrapper.  My next highest is 40, and he's also a scrapper.  I have a level 37 Controller who was created before either of them, but it took him what felt like forever to get to 32.

My warshade at 22 is a mediocre soloist.  If he can find a big, tightly packed group of white minions he's set... but those can be rare.  Finding groups can be a pain, so he's sort of stuck there.  Same for my 25 Defender, and he's even worse at soloing.

Hydra farming makes the high 30s fly by, though.  If you can stand to do it.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
eldaec
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Reply #10 on: April 21, 2005, 03:20:24 AM

I think the grind feeling isn't so bad for a scrapper, because of how well you solo.  My 50 is a Scrapper.  My next highest is 40, and he's also a scrapper.  I have a level 37 Controller who was created before either of them, but it took him what felt like forever to get to 32.

/agree.

But I'd add that the only additional time is the time spent getting a group together, pre-pet controllers are advertised up front as group characters, and you need that group to get moving.

If you have a group of regularly playing friends, or are comfortable building pickup groups, you can mitigate the extra time required to a large degree.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
jpark
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Reply #11 on: April 21, 2005, 07:41:06 AM

I'll be the token person who thinks the advancement in CoH is pretty fast.  I haven't really played WoW much, so I can't compare it.  But I have one level 50 hero (Mace, my namesake), another one on the way, and scores of heroes in their 30's.  I'm in no way a catass.  However, I never streethunt.  I only do missions and taskforces (I do have to get a little catass-y for those), and I group whenever I'm able.


Agreed I found it to be good up to 37 (I am not currently playing) - but I have not played since November.

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Reply #12 on: April 21, 2005, 08:00:50 AM

Even as a fan of CoH, it's a bit slow. It's not EQ1 Gouge-Your-Eyes-Out slow, unless you tend to die in waves. Of course, my experience is based on playing almost exclusively solo as a scrapper, doing almost nothing but missions. Street-hunting is fairly boring to me. Striga Isle missions were the bizzomb. Finding a lot of enemies now with psionic powers or hold/sleep/immobilize effects, so makes it a bit more difficult.

The stamina powers are broken, because it is absolutely crucial to any archtype to get them. They cut down on downtime significantly.

CmdrSlack
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Reply #13 on: April 21, 2005, 08:03:18 AM

Even as a fan of CoH, it's a bit slow. It's not EQ1 Gouge-Your-Eyes-Out slow, unless you tend to die in waves. Of course, my experience is based on playing almost exclusively solo as a scrapper, doing almost nothing but missions. Street-hunting is fairly boring to me. Striga Isle missions were the bizzomb. Finding a lot of enemies now with psionic powers or hold/sleep/immobilize effects, so makes it a bit more difficult.

The stamina powers are broken, because it is absolutely crucial to any archtype to get them. They cut down on downtime significantly.

I've managed to avoid the fitness power pool so far with my scrapper and he's at lv 27.  Granted, he's dark melee/regen with hasten, so I tend to be able to use my endurance drain power when needed in combat.  Although I still need to slot up QR all the way...

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MaceVanHoffen
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Reply #14 on: April 21, 2005, 11:04:41 AM

I think the grind feeling isn't so bad for a scrapper, because of how well you solo.  My 50 is a Scrapper.  My next highest is 40, and he's also a scrapper.  I have a level 37 Controller who was created before either of them, but it took him what felt like forever to get to 32.

There's other AT's that are really good at soloing.  My illusion/kinetics controller is insane, there's no mission on invincible without an AV that he cannot solo.

Also, my fire/fire blaster is a dream to play, though her advancement is slower because she can't take missions on the highest difficulty.  Tenacious is about as high as she can go.  However, I don't mind.  A fire blaster is just that much fun to play that I don't care so much how fast I'm advancing.

Llava
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Reply #15 on: April 21, 2005, 11:15:49 AM

Like I said, after 32 controllers solo really well.  But getting to 32 can feel like forever.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #16 on: April 21, 2005, 02:51:39 PM

I'm debating when to ratchet up past Tenacious for my dark/regen scrapper.  At lv 28 now, and discovering that missions I'd done ages ago on my blaster seem to require at least another player.  At least, that's what my contact tells me.  It's an old mission vs. the Devouring Earth...the first in an arc, I think...where you first encounter them trying to blow shit up under the city.  This time the contact says "you'll need at least one other person."

Odd.  I'm guessing you have to defuse bombs simultaneously or something equally annoying.

At any rate, Tenacious is pretty much "easy mode" now, but I'm hesitant to ramp up to the next level.  When does it get exceptionally brutal?

I traded in my fun blog for several legal blogs. Or, "blawgs," as the cutesy attorney blawgosphere likes to call 'em.
MaceVanHoffen
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Reply #17 on: April 21, 2005, 03:30:47 PM

At any rate, Tenacious is pretty much "easy mode" now, but I'm hesitant to ramp up to the next level.  When does it get exceptionally brutal?

For a scrapper?  Never.  Mace went from around 30 to 50 soloing missions on invincible (he's MA/regen).  He can't kill AV's solo, but he can tank a few of them, so those upper 40's AV arcs get easier because you can be fast and loose on the team makeup.  The official description of a scrapper being the best soloist is, for once in these games, a very accurate description.

Just to try and give you a well-rounded view:  A buddy of mine plays a DM/DA scrapper as his main, and we duoed quite a bit (finished the 44+ respec with just me and him ... everyone else dropped before the reactor mission).  He is a tad faster at soloing than I am, and could even kill one of his AV's solo when he hit 50.

Llava
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Reply #18 on: April 21, 2005, 10:00:27 PM

As MA/SR, I frequently soloed AVs from levels 44 to 50.  Only a few were too difficult, like Shadowhunter and his extreme smash resist, or Infernal and his +10 Vorpal Axe of 1-Shot Pwning, or Anti-Matter and his defense debuffs, or Neuron and his endurance drains.

Tyrant, easy.
Dreck, easy.
Psychic clockwork king, easy.
Psychic babbage, easy.
You get the picture.

But I think that Super Reflexes, built right, is the best secondary for soloing AVs.  And MA, with its focus on single target damage, is probably the best primary for it.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Sky
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Reply #19 on: April 22, 2005, 08:12:20 AM

So...welcome to CoH: Play a scrapper?

shiznitz
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Reply #20 on: April 22, 2005, 09:47:55 AM

For soloing, yes. I just never got as much gameplay satisfaction from scrapping. AE blasters were just too much fun and I usually had a few people to keep me safe.

I have never played WoW.
MaceVanHoffen
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Reply #21 on: April 22, 2005, 11:15:27 AM

For soloing, yes. I just never got as much gameplay satisfaction from scrapping. AE blasters were just too much fun and I usually had a few people to keep me safe.

I'll second that.  Scrappers are the best solo, but not necessarily the most fun to play overall.

Blasters are so incredibly fun to play that I find I don't notice my xp bar much.  Blasters do just fine solo, but they are much more vulnerable to villains who resist their damage type, whereas a scrapper can just tough out most situations where a villain resists his damage due to having a secondary which focuses on defense.  Certain blaster types also don't do well against crowds of villains.  Hence, most players consider them subpar solo'ers.  But, really, that's just a "if it goes to 11 I'm not happy with 10" mentality.  I love soloing as a blaster.

EDIT: grammar r fun
« Last Edit: April 22, 2005, 01:33:35 PM by MaceVanHoffen »
shiznitz
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Reply #22 on: April 22, 2005, 12:25:59 PM

Blaster soloing requires understanding one's template. AE blasters hunt packs of blues while energy blasters can hunt small groups whites and above (until they get Nova, of course.) The exp per hour comes out pretty much the same.

I have never played WoW.
Sky
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Reply #23 on: April 22, 2005, 12:26:16 PM

Yeah, I'm one of those 'single target' blasters. I can do ok against groups, because of knockback and a couple minor AE spells.

But I wouldn't trade it for an AE blaster, I loves my energy/energy blaster, great fun to play. Especially the 2.0 version, with stealth and stamina.
ClydeJr
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Reply #24 on: April 22, 2005, 02:26:49 PM

At any rate, Tenacious is pretty much "easy mode" now, but I'm hesitant to ramp up to the next level.  When does it get exceptionally brutal?

The difficulty settings are generally:
  • Heroic (Default) = mobs are your level and +1. Normal quantity.
  • Tenacious = mobs are your level and +1. Double quantity.
  • Rugged = mobs are you +1 and +2. Normal quantity.
  • Unyeilding = mobs are +1 and +2. Double quantity.
  • Invincible = mobs are +2 and +3. Normal quantity.

If you can get in a decent group with a wide variety of powers, crank the difficulty up to invincible and watch the exp flow in. I've never been able to match solo what a good 8 person group can do. We'd knock out 7+ minions, 3-4 lieuts, and 2 bosses (all +2/+3 to the highest person on the team) in less than 10 seconds with no downtime. Even a 4-5 member team brings in a lot better exp than solo I think. Don't forget about the exp multiplier:

2 people = 1.25 multipler
3 = 1.5
4 = 1.8
5 = 2
6 = 2.1
7 = 2.2
8 = 2.5

Of course, this doesn't really matter if you get in a group with the finalists for the "Retard of the Year" award.
MaceVanHoffen
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Reply #25 on: April 22, 2005, 03:48:47 PM

Don't forget about the exp multiplier:

Bleh, no one seems to want to group anymore, on Triumph.  I've given up trying to recruit groups for anything but taskforces.  But, yeah, once upon a time I was able to group all the time, and advancement is just so much faster due not only to the xp bonus but also to the synergy of various AT's working together.

CmdrSlack
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Reply #26 on: April 22, 2005, 05:09:55 PM

After some extensive "testing" (read as: goofing off when I should be working) I have figured out that I advance at about one level per 4 to 5 hours or so.  I tend to play in spurts throughout the day and average about 4 to 5 hours.  I seem to get about a level a day.  I hit 28 yesterday, 29 today, 27 on Wednesday, 26 Tuesday, etc.

We'll see if tomorrow's goofing off gets me to 30.  As far as 29 to 30 goes, I'm about 30-45 mins into it and at (I think) a box and a half of xp.  Oddly enough, I get so sucked into finishing arcs and Striga (finished it now, but I may just go randomly hunt in the Council base) that I don't normally notice my xp bar.  However, I'm trying to see how much faster the levelling is since I last played with my blaster that I've let get dusty since lv 28.

The mission xp payouts are making a huge difference.  Although I don't know if they are tied in to the mission slider.  Obviously, you get more xp per mob from the slider, but I haven't read anything that says the xp and infl payouts for mission completion are tied to the slider.

I'm doing this "time to level" test at Rugged as well.

At the 28 to 29 point, I took rugged and noticed that I finished out the level a lot faster.

Man I hate thinking about this stuff and paying attention, but this thread has me wanting to test it for random trivia value.

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Llava
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Reply #27 on: April 22, 2005, 08:47:14 PM

If I recall correctly, the mission bonus is affected by the slider.  There was a bug a while ago where everyone on the team except for the person who actually "owned" the mission would get this bonus experience, while the mission owner would get only normal mission completion experience.  This has, to my knowledge, been fixed.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Polysorbate80
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Reply #28 on: April 24, 2005, 06:13:47 PM


Bleh, no one seems to want to group anymore, on Triumph.  I've given up trying to recruit groups for anything but taskforces.  But, yeah, once upon a time I was able to group all the time, and advancement is just so much faster due not only to the xp bonus but also to the synergy of various AT's working together.



Started playing again a few days ago; on Victory my claw/invuln scrapper gets all sorts of random group invites from people.  It's almost annoying sometimes--"goddamn box is up AGAIN, jeebus"

Stupid person question:  where is the slider for mission difficulty?  I must just be having a brain-fart moment; it can't be that hard to locate...

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schmoo
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Reply #29 on: April 24, 2005, 06:47:51 PM



Started playing again a few days ago; on Victory my claw/invuln scrapper gets all sorts of random group invites from people.  It's almost annoying sometimes--"goddamn box is up AGAIN, jeebus"

Stupid person question:  where is the slider for mission difficulty?  I must just be having a brain-fart moment; it can't be that hard to locate...

There are NPCs is most zones called Hero Corp Field Analysts that you talk to to change the difficulty.

At times on Victory I get many team invites, random and otherwise, other times I can't get a team or even find anyone lft, except for SG people. Depends on the time of day, phase of the moon, etc.

I find that xp is not very good solo, and not too horribly slow on the average team, although it did seem to go faster once I got past level 32 or so.  Usually I do all my missions solo or teamed in small groups, and get my SG to PL me to the next level when I get frustrated by the slow leveling.  I hate PLing, but I hate wasting my time more, and it is sorta fun doing high level AV missions that I probably would never see otherwise.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 06:55:46 PM by schmoo »
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