A question for the mechanically inclined

[NiX]

I have this '95 Plymouth Neon that I've been trying to keep alive. Sadly, it's come to the point where I just can't drive it any more. I know for sure that the back brake lines have managed to "blow". How this occured is a long story that's very shocking and exciting! I think i'll make it into a movie. Anyway, the part I'm stumped about is my transmission. It still shifts, but awkwardly. I have to let the car warm up before it'll shift into second gear normally. It always had a slipping feeling when shifting, but now it's just insanely bad. Someone told me that it might be a valve in my transmission not doing its thing. The most I know how to do is fill fluids, change tires and know when my car is in need of some work. I haven't a clue what to do with my tranny or how much it's going to cost me.

Just wondering if anyone here is mechanically inclined enough to tell me roughly what this is going to set me back. I can't afford to buy another car, register it and insure it. As it stands I'm under someone elses insurance at a steal of a price. Switching would mean losing that. Oh yeah, my car is automatic.

[Abagadro]

Depending upon how trashed the gears may be, replacing a transmission will be more than that car is worth. Between 1000-2500 depending on the damage.

EDIT: Woops, just saw that it was an automatic. Probably 1500 minimum, 3000 maximum.  Depends on where you are too.  Best to get a new car.

[stray]

Depending upon how trashed the gears may be, replacing a transmission will be more than that car is worth. Between 1000-2500 depending on the damage.

EDIT: Woops, just saw that it was an automatic. Probably 1500 minimum, 3000 maximum.  Depends on where you are too.  Best to get a new car.

Sometimes you can get lucky by going to the "poorer" (sorry..but "for lack of a better word" and all that) side of town and getting the work done there. If you don't have that option, then what he said: New car.

[sinij]

Its not worth keeping around old Neon, junk it and get better car, you will not regret it. If you insist on keeping it around way to do it is to raid junkyards for parts you need and replace anything that is in questionable shape, like transmission, by yourself. As of right now your best bet is to get transmission flushed and see if that helps, if flusing finishes it off get used donor - you can probably find a shop to put it in for around 100-150$ and used transmission should cost 300-500$.

My guess it that your skimped on transmission maintance, filter got cloged and that in turn caused of build up of gunk that possibly cloged gears and/or clutch in your car.

With regards to breaks - don't fuck around with steering or breaks or you will end up wearing your car's engine in your chest. Make sure they work 100% or don't drive your car.

[NiX]

I'm bussing to work right now. I would never consider driving that thing in its current condition. Though the brakes went while I was on the highway which was THE worst experience of my life.

Someone told me I could probably just get the tranny fixed rather than replaced. Is this even an option or is someone talking out their ass?

[Strazos]

No, theoretically, the tranny Can be fixed...whether it's worth it or not, I don't know.

Also, transmission shops specialize in RAPING you, and they don't even have the courtesy to give you some KY beforehand.

Example: My auto had some transmission leaking. The reseal cost like $600. Tranny shops typically give shitty warranties, like 60 days or something. Mine started leaking again, and I couldn't get it in until 2 days after the warranty was up. Problem: the tranny was leaking at the speedometer cable which "is not really part of the transmission, so we didn't check it." (read: BULLSHIT). They gave me a "break" and charged me half-price on the labor to drop the transmission Again and fix the leaks. Apparently, some of the other seals were "weak" (shouldn't they have been changed. I don't race the damn thing). Then, the car was Back in the shop again less than a week later because it dropped a 3'x1' puddle in front of my house. This time it was the pan supposedly. Then they delayed me more because a "faulty" pan came in. Then, after I get it back, it's still leaking a little, due to a "poor seal" on the pan. I don't think the fucker has dropped a drop of fluid in more than 2 years. In all, Just the transmission cost me $900+ to get back into working order, and I think it's on it's last legs now (160k+ at this point).

If anything mechanical needs to be replaced, just shoot the damn thing. For what it would cost you to fix the tranny, you might as well junk the thing and get a loan for a cheap new car.

Also, new brake lines are going to cost you...running lines is a royal pain in the ass, unless you're dealing with a bare frame. If you could pull a functional tranny out of a junkyard, which is perfectly feasible given the model of your car, that may be a decent course of action. Also, get a buddy who knows some shit about cars if you do not.

[NiX]

we've already come to the conclusion that we can't do the brake work ourselves. Plymouth had the genius idea to run all the brake lines right behind the engine leaving about a pen width gap to replace the lines. The engine has to be pulled forward or taken out for the lines to be replaced. Apparently that isn't much work.

I'm going to talk to my managers boyfriend about getting work done cheap or something. He doesn't know much about non-import cars, but he can at least get the work done cheaper than if I went into a normal shop.

[Strazos]

Oh, he's another point I forgot:

Neons are FWD as I remember.

Add a huge chunk of change to any work that requires the removal of the transmission because of this, Transaxles FOR TEH LOSE.

I would suggest you just junk it and get a new car. You'll be better off.

[TheWalrus]

 I'll need more information before we get started, but let me say first that junking the car off the bat = fairly stupid fucking idea.

Lets begin with the brake lines, as thats a safety issue. From reading your post, it would seem the lines themselves have burst as opposed to the flexhoses at the wheels. Is this correct? (And if so, how? Do you live back east and they rusted apart? Gimme some background here.) And if they are burst, taking the car to a shop to have them installed is your best bet. NEVER let so and so's boyfriend, or your uncle or the owner of the cat down the road do work on your car, unless they own and operate a reputable shop. You have no warranty standing, and I sincerely doubt that the work will be of the quality it should be. In fact, they will most likely fuck it up. I make a lot of money off those people.

On to the transmission. When was your last service? You did read the owners manual didn't you? No? It's ok. Most people don't. At this point, your cheapest option is to have a shop drop the pan, and replace the filter and gasket. Have them flush the transmission with a good 10-12 quarts of fluid, and I also recommend Lubegard Transmission additive. I believe the neon uses ATF+3, but I can't remember offhand, and I'm not about to look it up for you in the middle of the night. You might be able to get away with this. It really depends on how you've driven the car, and your maintenance, or lack of, schedule. Failing this, you can have the transmission rebuilt, but this is usually cost prohibitive. Again, find a reputable shop, and have them price out a quality rebuilt or "used" (read junkyard) transmission. The higher quality junkyards are very organized and some will have a warranty on the parts depending on age/mileage and type of incident the previous vehicle experienced. Removal of trannies on most FWD vehicles is not near so bad as most people make it out to be. Then again, I do it fairly regularly so it doesn't bother me.


If you love this car and its in good shape, fix it. If it isn't, repair the brake lines, add Seafoam's Transtune to it, and deal with the performance until you've got enough money scraped together to get something else.

I cannot stress enough the importance of finding yourself a good honest mechanic. They're out there, and well worth the search.

[NiX]

Posted lots...

Well, my managers boyfriend works at a Honda dealership so it isn't like it would be done in someones driveway.

The brakes, to be honest, are a mystery to me. I have an older brother who tends to think he's the god of driving. From what I heard he backed my car up a steep hill (scraping the gas tank and possibly cracking/ruining the brake line) in an attempt to try and out do a guy driving a 4X4 jeep. Don't ask. All I know is that from where the brake line goes up and into the underside of the car the line is gone. Right not it's crimped there. This was a quick fix done half way on my way back during the brake line giving out. Not meant to keep it usable. The story I was given by my brother is that the lines were so rusted they crumbled at his touch. What makes this unbelievable is that he said it crumbled from the bottom up. Anyway, I had always planned to get these done professionally. I try to get all the big stuff done by the Canadian Tire near me. Anything I can do myself, that I have the knowledge to do, I'll do.

I have no idea when the last service on the Tranny was. Before my current job I worked 5 minutes from my house and never really used the car. I left it up to everyone else to maintain it because they were using it and I wasn't. I've given it 3 oil changes, topped up tranny fluid a few times, changed sparks/wires and rotated the tires. That's about it. As far as I've been told, since the tranny stopped shifting properly, if you let it idle and warm up the tranny will shift ok. By ok I mean it'll make it into the next gear without much of a problem. Its always shifted weird to me. Well, from first to second the RPM's were higher than most cars. But, I took it to a few places and they all said the tranny was in working order.

I just spent the past hour outside with my buddy and his laptop. Found out that older Neons will give you the fault codes through the check engine light. Apparently there's a bit of electrical nonsense going wrong with my car. The codes i got are: 12-31-32-34-21-21-55. The 12 and 55 are normal. What has me is the double 21. I tried this about 2-3 times to see if I was missing a code, but it seems to be flashing 21 twice. Every website I went to said it would never repeat a fault code twice. I have no idea if I should be assuming it means 42 instead of double 21. Either way, I found a list of the fault codes here. I can't make sense of all the stuff it's talking about.

[Sky]

I cannot stress enough the importance of finding yourself a good honest mechanic. They're out there, and well worth the search.

I've yet to find one in almost 20 years of searching. I've found several good mechanics, but never an honest one. Ever. Kinda like computer repair shops, or anything where you really don't know what needs to be done and thus trust another human. Having to place your trust in another human is a sure way to get fucked over, in my experience.

[DarkDryad]

Sorry I came to this show late :-D I build race cars and street cars so lemme help ya out here.
Fist the tranny

The first thing you do is have an oil change place drain and flush the tranny and replace the filter and fluid. a lot of times this will fix a slipping transmision as many people never replace the filters. Once they get clogged you dont have the pressure needed to shift correctly. the tranny should be drained and have the filter changed at least every two years and I mean the very least sooner if most of your driving is around town.

Next Brake lines
To change them you should have a strut tower motor mount on the right side at the top of the engine. It will have a bolt inside of a slot about 2-3 inches long. This is to be loosened and the entire engine and tranny will rotate forward and provide the room needed to get behind it. I suggest replacing the rubber highpressure lines with braided steel hoses. They are a bit more expensive but will give you better brake feel and power to the calipers on the wheels. Advance has standard brake lines at 15 to 30 bucks each. Go with the Raybestos brand they are more expensive but better.



You can almost see the mount here on the right.

Fault code 21 is the oxygen sensor for all mopar models. These can be pricey. you "should" have 2 of them hence the repeating codes that means both are not working. I have 4 on my Mustang but I almost positve you have 2. 1 front in the exhaust header and one after the catalytic converter. On a mustang they are close to 100bucks a piece but advance auto lists the fron for your car at 44.99 and the rear at 55.99. Lucky you.

Total parts needed:
50 bucks for a tranny service
55.99 for rear 02 sensor
44.99 for the front 02 sensor
30.00 for a brake line.

Total 180.98
Local shops here charge like 65. an ahour  so if the tranny can be revived yer looking at around 400 bucks total. If you are anywhere close to Macon Ga, which I doubt you are I'd do it for a cnote just to help ya out. Look and see if you have any car clubs in the area. Local motorheads always wanna help out for mod money.

After rereading TW's post he is spot on and sounds like he owns a shop as well. Also you will need to have the EGR removed and the carbon cleaned out or replaced. Most of what you have going on in the codes except for the speed control is emissions related 02 sensors/egr and are fairly inexpensive fixes. The speed controll I have no farkin clue about Im a ford guy and we dont use those thingamabobs specially not on Stangs :) I really hope this helps.

[Bunk]

DD makes a good point on local carheads and such, if you know any. My dad was a tranny mechanic in his 20's. Now he's an engineering manager, but he still rebuilds trannys out of his garage on the weekends for all of his drag racing buddies.

Canadian Tire - eh.. I'd shop around, see if you can get a quote from a smaller shop. Crappy Tire tends to be slow and expensive.

Oh, and as for personal anecdotal advice, don't ignore tranny problems. I once had the joy of mine deciding to die in my 82 Transam while going 80 klicks. Dieing to the point that once I got stopped only reverse worked.  That sucked.

[NiX]

The thing with the fault codes is that they could be different depending on year. So, that speed control may be for a different year. I tried for a bit to find a more definitive list, but couldn't get anything out of google or the websites I had found.

I called 2 places so far for tranny fluid change/filter. Penzoil place is quoting me at 109.99 without a filter change. Canadian tire is quoting me at 99.99 with fluid/filter change (fluid change, not a flush.) I'll have to find some more places around and see if they'll quote me anything cheaper. If not I'll start asking the carheads I know around town. I'll probably hit up a Canadian Tire after work tomorrow to check on part prices and look at a few more places that work on trannys. The good thing about Canadian Tire is that my buddy works there and gets me 10%. Not much considering tax is 15, but you take what you can get.

[Strazos]

Lesson of the day:

It's really fucking hard to diagnose problems without physically checking the car over.

[TheWalrus]

 So far I haven't been able to bring myself to tell those random people who call and ask whats wrong with their car, to go hold the phone near the engine. But I'm gettin closer.

 Edit: By the way, I'd charge you round 150 bucks for that full service. But you can do the pan and filter yourself if feel comfortable with it, which makes the fluid flush cheaper. If you want to do a quickie test to see if any of this would be worth your while, dump a can of that Seafoam Transtune in, go for a good long cruise using all the gears, (drive sidestreets, hold it in second, find a lonely road, do reverse, etc) dump the fluid, fill and see if its any better the next day. If it's even mildly improved, your trans can probably be saved.

 Another note, if this is your car, and you are letting other people drive it, you are nuts. Stay away from candy factories. Oh and your brothers lying. Sorry.

[Miasma]

Shoot it!

[Strazos]

That wouldn't even work unless he hit something soft.