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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Serious Business  |  Topic: "I could build a Lincoln Log cabin of homophobic denial..." 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: "I could build a Lincoln Log cabin of homophobic denial..."  (Read 4241 times)
Shockeye
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 6668

Skinny-dippin' in a sea of Lee, I'd propose on bended knee...


WWW
on: April 18, 2005, 02:48:50 PM

Quote from: AP
Historians Defend Book on Abraham Lincoln

By CHRISTOPHER WILLS, Associated Press Writer

Monday, April 18, 2005

(04-18) 05:29 PDT Springfield, Ill. (AP) --

It must have been the first conference in the history of Abraham Lincoln scholarship to call the Great Emancipator "a terrifically sexual guy." Addressing the nation's top Lincoln scholars on Sunday, two historians defended a new book that claims Lincoln was gay and called for more research into his sexuality.

"I could build a Lincoln Log cabin of homophobic denial," said Civil War historian Michael Chesson. "There's been a cover-up, a conspiracy of silence for experts to hide what they regard as dirty linen in Abe's faded carpetbag."

The reason for the discussion — part of a conference held in conjunction with the opening of the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum — is a new book called "The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln."

Author and sociologist C.A. Tripp, who died before the book was published, examined Lincoln's poetry, the recollections of those who knew him and his relationships with other men and concluded Lincoln was "predominantly homosexual."

Tripp goes into more detail, but he was not the first person to speculate on the subject.

Scholars have long wondered about the relationship between Lincoln and Joshua Speed. The two men slept in the same bed for four years in Springfield and developed a deep friendship.

Seeking to save money and stay warm in crude buildings, men of the day often shared beds. But Lincoln and Speed lived together long after they could afford separate quarters. Though both men married and Lincoln had four children, Tripp concluded they were lovers.

He reached the same conclusion about Lincoln and David Derickson, a soldier assigned to guard the president during the Civil War. Lincoln and Derickson sometimes shared a bed when Mary Todd Lincoln was out of town.

Jean Baker, author of a major biography of Mrs. Lincoln, has concluded that Lincoln was bisexual.

"(Lincoln) loved men, and they loved him, at whatever level," Baker said.

She also rejected the contention that Lincoln married only to further his political career, saying Abraham and Mary "loved each other and could not be happy apart."

"It does seem to me that Lincoln is a terrifically sexual guy. He seems to exude testosterone from every pore," she added.

Many historians have questioned the theory that Lincoln was gay, arguing that if there were anything suspicious about the president's relationships with Speed and Derickson, his enemies would have used it against him. They say Tripp relied on discredited sources and read too much into conversations that were recalled decades later.

Douglas Wilson, co-director of the Lincoln Studies Center at Knox College, called the book's evidence "very, very shabby."

But Illinois state historian Thomas Schwartz suggested skeptics should keep an open mind. "I have found that the traditional assumptions about Lincoln, when carefully tested, fall apart," he said.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #1 on: April 18, 2005, 02:51:35 PM

Wow, of all the things to research about historical figures, I think that where they were putting their hoo-hah has to be the most inconsequential.

Furiously
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7199


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Reply #2 on: April 18, 2005, 03:02:40 PM

Well - what about in Franklin's case - where he is writing about purity and then going off to orgies in France?

Shockeye
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 6668

Skinny-dippin' in a sea of Lee, I'd propose on bended knee...


WWW
Reply #3 on: April 18, 2005, 03:03:33 PM

Well - what about in Franklin's case - where he is writing about purity and then going off to orgies in France?

What happens in France stays in France?
Furiously
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Posts: 7199


WWW
Reply #4 on: April 18, 2005, 03:05:25 PM

I hate those vegas commercials. Who the heck thought, "Hey! Lets make cheating on your significant other cool!"

stray
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Reply #5 on: April 18, 2005, 03:11:06 PM

If I could count all the "biographies" of historical figures out there that said they were gay....

Not that I have a problem with it if it were true, but they can't ALL be gay, can they?

/shrug

It's only thing that sells history books these days, I guess.
Sobelius
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Posts: 761


Reply #6 on: April 18, 2005, 03:22:45 PM

I think these historical experts should have done more -- and maybe they do in the books and articles they write -- to recall that the sexual context of the times contained no language for "gay" and even for "homosexuality". Men who "loved" other men didn't necessarily have sexual intercourse. Latin cultures and some Eastern European cultures (and Thailand too I think) still today have a sense of this -- where men can walk holding hands as a sign of friendship, or even kiss much in the way you might kiss a family member -- and think nothing of it.

Here's a book of old photographs that suggest this very idea. Obviously there was no gay movement or subculture as such in the 1850's, yet these men may look "gay" to our 21st century eyes due to our current cultural lens.

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
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voodoolily
Contributor
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Finnuh, munnuh, muhfuh, I enjoy creating new written vernacular, s'all.


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Reply #7 on: April 18, 2005, 03:41:12 PM

Just because culture didn't define them as gay, whether or not they were able to identify or articulate it being moot, they still very well may have been gay. Who gives a fuck? I'm so sick of the gasp factor homosexuality still apparently has. Homosexuality has existed for millenia, and not just in humans. Get over it!

Voodoo & Sauce - a blog.
The Legend of Zephyr - a different blog.
stray
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has an iMac.


Reply #8 on: April 18, 2005, 03:43:58 PM

I'm so sick of the gasp factor homosexuality still apparently has.

Maybe you should tell that to the author of this book. Most likely that was his only motivation.
voodoolily
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Finnuh, munnuh, muhfuh, I enjoy creating new written vernacular, s'all.


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Reply #9 on: April 18, 2005, 03:46:34 PM

Or maybe it was to show (red-state) Americans that people we respect and honor can be gay, too, and that all fags don't wear hot-pink boas and platform heels.

Voodoo & Sauce - a blog.
The Legend of Zephyr - a different blog.
Sobelius
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Reply #10 on: April 18, 2005, 03:59:27 PM

Or maybe it was to show (red-state) Americans that people we respect and honor can be gay, too, and that all fags don't wear hot-pink boas and platform heels.

Not the style-challenged ones anyway. Lincoln looked right smart and suitably sexy in his stovepipe hat and severe black suit.

For better, IMHO, most of us are just as varied as anyone else in the culture. We are saints and serial killers and everything in between.

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
"A world without Vin Diesel is sad." -- me
voodoolily
Contributor
Posts: 5348

Finnuh, munnuh, muhfuh, I enjoy creating new written vernacular, s'all.


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Reply #11 on: April 18, 2005, 04:13:31 PM

Not the style-challenged ones anyway. Lincoln looked right smart and suitably sexy in his stovepipe hat and severe black suit.


YEah, totally. My best girlfriends have always been the hissy fags, and some of my biggest crushes the butch ones. Gotta love a muscle mary that defies gaydar!

Voodoo & Sauce - a blog.
The Legend of Zephyr - a different blog.
stray
Terracotta Army
Posts: 16818

has an iMac.


Reply #12 on: April 18, 2005, 04:16:34 PM

Gotta love a muscle mary that defies gaydar!

Defy gaydar? Lol, just about every muscle bound dude I've ever met is gay.
voodoolily
Contributor
Posts: 5348

Finnuh, munnuh, muhfuh, I enjoy creating new written vernacular, s'all.


WWW
Reply #13 on: April 18, 2005, 04:18:32 PM

I dated a straight one once, with mixed results. He worried that he was getting fat more than the girls I knew. BUt he was generally a douchebag all around.

Voodoo & Sauce - a blog.
The Legend of Zephyr - a different blog.
Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15542

The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid


Reply #14 on: April 18, 2005, 08:04:17 PM

As a history major, I wonder who pays for this shit.

Who cares?!

Certainly not me.

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
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