Kingdom of Heaven

[Strazos]

Any thoughts on this movie, coming out May 6th?

Unfortunately, I have to bank on a horrible flop. King Arthur, anyone?

I mean, it's the fucking Crusades....what is there to fuck up, honestly?

[Murgos]

Well, if they are honest, years and years of standing around in the desert starving probably isn't a very exciting movie.

[Fabricated]

Hey, what about the Children's Crusade? I'm pretty sure you could make a movie out of a bunch of kids wandering aimlessly and eventually all being killed or sold into slavery.

[jpark]

I believe the Director is Ridly Scott - which can do no wrong in my mind as I believe he directed Blade Runner, Alien and Gladiator.

However, the casting of Orlando Bloom makes shudder.

[Llava]

I believe the Director is Ridly Scott - which can do no wrong in my mind as I believe he directed Blade Runner, Alien and Gladiator.

Gladiator was "no wrong"?

[Strazos]

Oh come on, how can you not like Gladiator, even if you don't like Crowe (I don't mind him either way)?

[Margalis]

Crowe himself didn't like Gladiator.

[Shockeye]

I didn't like the way the fight scenes were filmed in Gladiator. I'm not a stedicam fan.

[stray]

I didn't like the way the fight scenes were filmed in Gladiator. I'm not a stedicam fan.

Don't tell me that you hate Scorsese too...? 

[schild]

I didn't like the way the fight scenes were filmed in Gladiator. I'm not a stedicam fan.

Don't tell me that you hate Scorsese too...? 

Lars Von Trier. I hate me some Lars Von Trier. And I hate all the people that convinced me that Dancer in the Dark was a good movie.

I just felt the need to add that.

[stray]

I didn't like the way the fight scenes were filmed in Gladiator. I'm not a stedicam fan.

Don't tell me that you hate Scorsese too...? 

Lars Von Trier. I hate me some Lars Von Trier. And I hate all the people that convinced me that Dancer in the Dark was a good movie.

I just felt the need to add that.

Give the "Idiots" a try if you already haven't (Danish - "Idioterne").

Not the best representative of Dogma 95 (Man Bites Dog anyone?), but definitely the funniest one.

[Rodent]

Lars Von Trier. I hate me some Lars Von Trier. And I hate all the people that convinced me that Dancer in the Dark was a good movie.

I just felt the need to add that.

Riget rules, but I'm not sure that show ever aired outside of Denmark and Sweden. Still if you can find it, it's worth a look, may even make you forgive him for Dancer in the Dark.

[Riggswolfe]

I didn't like the way the fight scenes were filmed in Gladiator. I'm not a stedicam fan.

Are you one of the freaks responsible for this jerking the camera around like a spastic retard craze we have in movies lately? If so, step away from the MTV and watch some good movies and good entertainment for awhile.

[AOFanboi]

Riget rules, but I'm not sure that show ever aired outside of Denmark and Sweden. Still if you can find it, it's worth a look, may even make you forgive him for Dancer in the Dark.

Plus Norway and Britain, but then those countries share a certain television culture.

If you want to examine more von Trier, try Dogville, his "stageplay on film" starring Nicole Kidman. I think von Trier lives by the adage "It was hard to make, it should be hard to watch". And I can like that in a director.

[HaemishM]

I believe the Director is Ridly Scott - which can do no wrong in my mind as I believe he directed Blade Runner, Alien and Gladiator.

Thelma and Louise.

Yes, it makes me cry.

I don't have high hopes for this movie being in anyway historically accurate, but being that it's a movie, that's more than I can hope for anyway. I just hope it is better than fucking King Arthur, torturous piece of shit that it was.

What's with the hatin' on Orlando? I like him well enough; it's not like he's a talentless scientologist like Tom Cruise or anything.

[Sky]

I know nothing about the movie, I don't go watch movies.

But it seems an incredibly BAD time to be putting out a movie about the crusades, with an overtly christian president presiding over a war on an islamic nation who did not provoke it...

[Llava]

Oh come on, how can you not like Gladiator, even if you don't like Crowe (I don't mind him either way)?

Hmmm.... let's see

Well, for starters we have the loyal black sidekick who knows exotic yet strange methods of healing.  Most stereotypical role ever.

We have Maximus showing no personality at all that distinguishes him from any other action character.  Sense of honor, family killed, THIS TIME IT'S PERSONAL.  Hell, his family being killed didn't even mean anything to me because we'd seen them for a whole 10 seconds previous to that.

All together, minus the decent decapitation factor, it was just plain boring.  The character towards whom I should've been most sympathetic, Maximus, I didn't give a crap about because he might as well have been Bruce Willis or Arnold.  There was nothing special about this movie in any capacity.

I was rather happy to find, after I'd seen the movie and been utterly unimpressed, that I'm not alone in my beliefs.  I find I usually agree with Roger Ebert's appraisal of films, and I felt he was on the mark with this one (overall he gave it two stars, which is a pretty mediocre rating):

Maximus: I'm required to kill--so I kill. That's enough.

Proximo: That's enough for the provinces, but not for Rome.

A foolish choice in art direction casts a pall over Ridley Scott's "Gladiator" that no swordplay can cut through. The film looks muddy, fuzzy and indistinct. Its colors are mud tones at the drab end of the palette, and it seems to have been filmed on grim and overcast days. This darkness and a lack of detail in the long shots helps obscure shabby special effects (the Colosseum in Rome looks like a model from a computer game), and the characters bring no cheer: They're bitter, vengeful, depressed. By the end of this long film, I would have traded any given gladiatorial victory for just one shot of blue skies. (There are blue skies in the hero's dreams of long-ago happiness, but that proves the point.) The story line is "Rocky" on downers. The hero, a general from Spain named Maximus (Russell Crowe), is a favorite of the dying emperor Marcus Aurelius (Richard Harris). After Maximus defeats the barbarians, Marcus names him protector of Rome. But he is left for dead by Marcus' son, a bitter rival named Commodus (the name comes from the Latin for "convenient" and not what you're thinking).

After escaping and finding that his wife and son have been murdered, Maximus finds his way to the deserts of North Africa, where he is sold as a slave to Proximo (the late Oliver Reed), a manager of gladiators. When Commodus lifts his late father's ban on gladiators in Rome, in an attempt to distract the people from hunger and plagues, Maximus slashes his way to the top, and the movie ends, of course, with the Big Fight.

This same story could have been rousing entertainment; I have just revisited the wonderful "Raiders of the Lost Ark," which is just as dimwitted but 12 times more fun. But "Gladiator" lacks joy. It employs depression as a substitute for personality, and believes that if the characters are bitter and morose enough, we won't notice how dull they are.

Commodus (Joaquin Phoenix) is one of those spoiled, self-indulgent, petulant Roman emperors made famous in the age of great Roman epics, which ended with "Spartacus" (1960). Watching him in his snits, I recalled Peter Ustinov's great Nero in "Quo Vadis" (1951), collecting his tears for posterity in tiny crystal vials. Commodus has unusual vices even for a Caesar; he wants to become the lover of his older sister Lucilla (Connie Nielsen), whose son he is bringing up as his heir.

The moral backbone of the story is easily mastered. Commodus wants to be a dictator, but is opposed by the senate, led by Gracchus (Derek Jacobi). The senators want him to provide sewers for the city's Greek district, where the plague is raging, but Commodus decides instead on a season of games. Proximo arrives with his seasoned gladiators from Africa, who prove nearly invincible and threaten the emperor's popularity. The moral lesson: It is good when gladiators slaughter everyone in sight, and then turn over power to the politicians.

The Colosseum productions play like professional wrestling. Events are staged to re-create famous battles, and after the visitors wipe out the home team, a puzzled Commodus tells his aide, "My history's a little hazy--but shouldn't the barbarians lose the battle of Carthage?" Later, an announcer literally addresses the crowd in these words: "Caesar is pleased to bring you the only undefeated champion in Roman history--the legendary Titus!" The battle sequences are a pale shadow of the lucidly choreographed swordplay in "Rob Roy" (1995); instead of moves we can follow and strategy we can appreciate, Scott goes for muddled closeups of fearsome but indistinct events. The crowd cheers, although those in the cheaper seats are impossible to see because of the murky special effects.

When Maximus wins his first big fight, it's up to Commodus to decide whether he will live or die. "Live! Live!" the fans chant, and Commodus, bowing to their will, signals with a "thumbs up." This demonstrates that Commodus was not paying attention in Caesar School, since the practice at the Colosseum at that time was to close the thumb in the fist to signal life; an extended thumb meant death. Luckily, no one else in the Colosseum knows this, either.

Crowe is efficient as Maximus: bearded, taciturn, brooding. His closest friend among the gladiators is played by Djimon Hounsou, who played the passionate slave in "Amistad." Since protocol requires him to speak less than Maximus, he mostly looks ferocious, effectively.

Nielsen shows the film's most depth, as the sister. Phoenix is passable as Commodus, but a quirkier actor could have had more fun in the role. Old pros Harris, Jacobi and Reed are reliable; Scott does some fancy editing and a little digital work to fill the gaps left when Reed died during the production.

"Gladiator" is being hailed by those with short memories as the equal of "Spartacus" and "Ben-Hur." This is more like "Spartacus Lite." Or dark. It's only necessary to think back a few months, to Julie Taymor's "Titus," for a film set in ancient Rome that's immeasurably better to look at. The visual accomplishment of "Titus" shames "Gladiator," and its story is a whole heck of a lot better than the "Gladiator" screenplay, even if Shakespeare didn't make his Titus the only undefeated champion in Roman history.

[schild]

I said something about Gladitor right when it was released.

"Gladiator is Braveheart for retards."

While, I've backed away from that sentence in the last 5 years or whatever, it still comes across that way in a couple scenes. I'm no whore for Mel Gibson, but it's tough to compare to Braveheart on the epic love scale.

That said, Gladiator is one of the most beautiful pieces of work ever put down on celluloid. It's easily up there with Fifth Element, Equilibrium, Gattaca and a short list of other movies that are too artistic for words.

[Pococurante]

The artist has a vision using grim colors and images to show a grim life amid a grim reality.  And Ebert wants to see blue skies.

Check.

[Llava]

More like the plot and characters aren't interesting enough to carry a "grim setting."  It's like he mentioned- Raiders of the Lost Ark is just as dimwitted, but 12 times more fun.  Gladiator is that film with the sense of humor sucked out of it.  The rest of the film isn't good enough to carry it.

[Rasix]

While, I've backed away from that sentence in the last 5 years or whatever, it still comes across that way in a couple scenes. I'm no whore for Mel Gibson, but it's tough to compare to Braveheart on the epic love scale.

It's wierd, but I just can't watch Braveheart anymore.  This is one of the few times an actor or other artists personal life has prevented me from enjoying their work.  But yah, before I thought Mel was batshit insane, I would have said Braveheart beats the hell out of Gladiator.

That said, Gladiator is one of the most beautiful pieces of work ever put down on celluloid. It's easily up there with Fifth Element, Equilibrium, Gattaca and a short list of other movies that are too artistic for words.

NNOOOOO.  Agreeing with schild on film.  I must shower.  I love films that despite their other flaws, are just beautiful.  This reminds me, I need to get a copy of Fifth Element and Equilibrium on dvd.  Movies like that due to their nature are just infinitely rewatchable.

[Llava]

I still say Braveheart beats the shit out of Gladiator.

I cared when William died.  I cared when his wife died.  I cheered for him when he committed cold blooded murder.

Maximus is the same damn character, with all the interest and fun sucked out.

[WayAbvPar]

I hated Gladiator, and that was before I hated Russell Crowe. I was just bored most of the time, and spent the rest of it squirming in my seat from seeing Joaquin Phoenix's harelip 20 feet high in the theatre. Talk about disturbing...

[Furiously]

I was watching inside the Actors Studio a few weeks ago and Russel Crowe was indicating they had 20 pages of script when they started filming.

He was pretty proud that "On my... release hell." was written by him.

I have friends that LOVE the movie, I was less then impressed. Braveheart was a much better movie.

It should be interesting to see how Legolas does.

[Bunk]

Not a fan of Braveheart. Liked some of it, but thought it had the same problem as that other Gibson dreck - The Patriot. Namely, overly melodramatic cheese stuffed in to advance the plot. Why do the villains have to be the spawn of Satan? Slitting women's throats, burning churches full of children, etc, etc. I liked the battle scenes in Braveheart. That was about it.

I still laugh out loud at Gibson's final scene. FREEEEEDOOO...*GIBBED* .. Splork..

If I want guys in kilts, I'll watch a decent movie like Rob Roy.

As for Gladiator, I understand the criticism, but its a guilty pleasure for me. Amazing to look at, I thought the supporting cast was great, and I just plain enjoyed it.

[Bunk]

Oh, and for my opinion of Orlando Bloom: I thought he was perfectly cast as Paris. Take that as you will.

[HaemishM]

I still say Braveheart beats the shit out of Gladiator.

Well, yeah. DUH.  :-D

Braveheart is one of my favorite all-time movies. However, it set a disturbing precedent that every fucking movie with "epic" in its scope has tried to follow. Shit, Episode 1's battle scene was ripped straight from Braveheart, only with all the icky violence and emotion removed, and slapstick stupidity added. Both Gladiator and Blackhawk Down (another Ridley Scott movie) tried to evoke the same kinds of emotions and war-story atmosphere. Hell, Lord of the Rings wouldn't have been made without Braveheart being a success. Troy, Kingdom of Heaven, King Arthur, all have tried to out-Braveheart Braveheart.

I like Gladiator, though didn't think it was Oscar-worthy. Crowe had a much better performance in A Beautiful Mind (otherwise known as A Biopic We Completely Made Up) and L.A. Confidential, the latter of which should have won him a goddamn Oscar. Hell, Master and Commander was a better performance.

The Patriot was pure, utter shit. It was an attempt to Braveheart up the American Revolution, and it failed miserably. It wasn't even good for the battle scenes, which make the historian in me cringe.

[Furiously]

Leslie Nelson will alway be the patriot to me...

Spoken: "My name is Francis Marion. I fought the British Redcoats in '76 - hiding in the Carolina swamps by day, surprising them with swift strikes at night. They called me a tricky swamp fox, so a Swamp Fox I became."

CHORUS
Swamp Fox! Swamp Fox!  Tail on his hat,
Nobody knows where The Swamp Fox's at.
Swamp Fox! Swamp Fox!

Hiding in the glen, he runs away to fight again.
I fire a gun the birds take wing.  There startled cries a signal clear.
My men march forth to fight the king.  And leave behind there loved ones dear.
CHORUS

We had no lead, we had no powder.  Always fought with an empty gun.
Only made us shout the louder.  We are men of Marion.
We had no cornpone, had no honey.  All we had was Continental money.
Wouldn't buy nothing worth beans in the pot.  Roasted ears and possum was all we go.
CHORUS

We had no blankets, had no bed.  Had no roof above our head.
We get no shelter when it rains.  All we got is Yankee brains.
The Redcoats fight in a foreign land.  Their hearts are far across the sea.
They never try to understand.  We fight for home and liberty.
(CHORUS 2X)

[Polysorbate80]

... exotic yet strange methods of healing...

For the era, perfectly normal--lots of aboriginal tribes knew about using maggots to clean necrotic flesh out of wounds. But both movies are guilty of playing fast and loose with history.

Braveheart is the more 'romantic' of the two, which I think is why my wife prefers it and I prefer Gladiator.  The only thing that makes Braveheart remotely watchable for me is the crazy Irishman (if that's not a redundancy.)  Although I do find Sophie Marceau attractive for some inexplicable reason.

[Llava]

I don't really care if it was historically accurate.  It's been done.  It's laughably stereotypical.  There are a billion more creative ways to introduce characters like that, but they decided they ought to just take a page from every other script with a loyal-yet-savage-black-supporting-character.

Though I will say that it wasn't the most ridiculous use ever of this device.  The Punisher did that quite nicely.  Good thing he washed up on that island with the black hermit, or he might've died from all those bullet wounds!  God bless those black people and their supernatural healing powers.

[Teleku]

The fuck?  I think this is the first time I have actually ever heard anybody say a bad thing about Gladiator, let alone a group of people.

I mean, I guess I can see your points, but I really liked it.  Then again, I don't think I'm nearly as big of a bitch about movies as alot of other people.  Rarely do I go to see a movie and come out hating it, and that ranges all over many genres.  Hell, going in with the correct attitude of what I was to expect, I actually somewhat enjoyed Resident Evil 2 in the theater.  Granted, it is probably one of the worst movies ever made, but I got exactly what I was hoping for when I went in, which was zombies being blown up in a badly over the top manner.  All my friends left the theater mad and upset about how bad it was.  I walked out suprised at how much better it was than I had anticipated.

[Samwise]

Leslie Nelson will alway be the patriot to me...

Spoken: "My name is Francis Marion. I fought the British Redcoats in '76 - hiding in the Carolina swamps by day, surprising them with swift strikes at night. They called me a tricky swamp fox, so a Swamp Fox I became."

Oo, what's that from?  I'm supposedly related to Francis Marion in some distant way (according to a relative who went on a big genealogy kick a while back), but he seems like one of those historical figures that nobody's ever heard of.

[Johny Cee]

The Patriot was pure, utter shit. It was an attempt to Braveheart up the American Revolution, and it failed miserably. It wasn't even good for the battle scenes, which make the historian in me cringe.

Yah, the Patriot's history was godawful.  The Southern campaigns were mostly a sideshow, with most of the meaningful action taking place in the North.  You know, where the wealth and population centers were....  Everything south of Virginia didn't really account for much.  The Lake Champlain/Hudson corridor being the most important.

That,  and the British Army was portrayed as a bunch of ludicrous sadists.  From what I can remember,  most atrocities by both sides were committed by un-uniformed partisans....  Both the British and Continental armies were pretty clean.  Sure, like all frontier warfare a blind eye was turned to other forces using brutul force (Indians in the French and Indian/Queen Anne's wars,  loyalists/patriots in the American Revolution.

[Margalis]

The big problem with the Patriot was this:

"Ok guys, we've still got an hour and a half to go and we're out of plot!"
"umm...threaten their families again or something!"

I mean seriously, the FIRST fucking time your family is threatened go hide them away somewhere. It was just ludicrous how often those people were in danger. Just a total lack of any real storytelling falling back on the same crutch over and over again.

How anyone can watch the 5th Element is beyond me, no matter how good it looks. Chris Tucker even more annoying than usual!
---

A lot of the complaints with Gladiator was that the script and dialog were bad. Russel Crowe apparently said something like "even I have trouble making this shit sound good" or something to that effect. Russel Crowe is my hero. If I were a movie star I'd probably have the same personality and I look kind of like him too. (Especially when I let my hair grow out a bit and don't shave for a while)

[stray]

I've always liked Crowe as well. He's one of the few higher profile actors who genuinely looks upon his profession as an art, and for that I admire him.