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Author Topic: Go Play....NOW!  (Read 24883 times)
Mesozoic
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Reply #35 on: April 19, 2005, 07:47:05 AM

Wow.  I don't get the negativity.  Seemed like fun to me...sure there were fucktards galore running around Ascalon, but thats par for the course.  At least they go away when you leave town. 

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
Dren
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Reply #36 on: April 19, 2005, 08:06:06 AM

From what I understand from my weekends playing you will be able to, at launch, create a character that is fully developed to level 20 from the start and be locked into the PvP arena area.  Plus, I can start another character at level 0 and go through the PvE areas along the way AND PvP at level appropriate tournaments.

Pure PvP = 20 to start.  Limited items.  No PvE.
Start at 0 = Work on character. Item centric. Quest driven. PvP possible when wanted.

I can have more than one character saved so I can dabble in each.

I didn't get to play the PvP "only" section so I'm probably wrong there.  How close to right am I?
Dren
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Reply #37 on: April 19, 2005, 08:07:09 AM

Wow.  I don't get the negativity.  Seemed like fun to me...sure there were fucktards galore running around Ascalon, but thats par for the course.  At least they go away when you leave town. 

That is my feeling too.  I don't get the hate generated.  Thus my questions above.  Maybe I'm missing something...
Signe
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Muse.


Reply #38 on: April 19, 2005, 08:34:28 AM

Well, that clinches it!  If Shockeye isn't going to play, then I'm not playing.  I mean, what would be the point if there's no hot sweaty animal cyb0rs3x?

It's all about the drive-by, innit?

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Jayce
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Diluted Fool


Reply #39 on: April 19, 2005, 08:43:15 AM

GW is one of the first MMOG's to try a seriously different revenue model, and it's got a lot of attention in various forums...if it works, it opens up a lot of options, but overall not many seem to positive it's going to work (me being one of them).

How's this revenue model any different from battle.net?

I'd even think that this model has more potential than battle.net because they intend to release expansions more frequently.

Witty banter not included.
Strazos
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Posts: 15542

The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid


Reply #40 on: April 19, 2005, 05:57:18 PM

God, I wish I had made videos of my PvP action just to showcase the beastly potential of the play.

Here's a big plus: this is the first game where I have actually Liked healing.

Did you ever play Shadowbane?

Nope. It came out at when I was in high school, with no job or money. And I was playing EQ at the time, financed by my mother.  undecided

From what I understand from my weekends playing you will be able to, at launch, create a character that is fully developed to level 20 from the start and be locked into the PvP arena area. Plus, I can start another character at level 0 and go through the PvE areas along the way AND PvP at level appropriate tournaments.

Pure PvP = 20 to start. Limited items. No PvE.
Start at 0 = Work on character. Item centric. Quest driven. PvP possible when wanted.

I am not sure how it's going to work, but if this is the way, it appears that all the skills for the PvP character will have to be unlocked in PvE mode.

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
Stephen Zepp
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Reply #41 on: April 19, 2005, 07:47:33 PM

Would anyone that originally liked it (or at least liked the idea) give a synopsis of what turned you off/put you in the "not really interested" mode? It sounded like the PvP'ers heaven game from all I could tell from the forums here, but response seems pretty low level positive to downright "underwhelmed" as Shockeye puts it.

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Krakrok
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Reply #42 on: April 19, 2005, 10:42:51 PM


I can't explain why I feel burned out on it. I played the first few beta weekends a lot. The last few weekends I've only played a couple hours each. The real question is "Would you buy Diablo 3 or Dungeon Siege II?" and if the answer is yes, buy Guild Wars. With no monthly fee you can't really go wrong. There is at least 25 hours of good co-op play in it.
Jayce
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Reply #43 on: April 20, 2005, 05:25:25 AM

Wow.  I don't get the negativity. 

It's de rigeur.

Witty banter not included.
Stephen Zepp
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Reply #44 on: April 20, 2005, 08:15:33 AM

GW is one of the first MMOG's to try a seriously different revenue model, and it's got a lot of attention in various forums...if it works, it opens up a lot of options, but overall not many seem to positive it's going to work (me being one of them).

How's this revenue model any different from battle.net?

I'd even think that this model has more potential than battle.net because they intend to release expansions more frequently.

Does GW seriously place instances on the client computers? AFAIK (I haven't studied the tech of battle.net specifically, just used it), it's simply a huge text lobby. When a game starts up, it's hosted (randomly selected) by one of the client computers, and the other players in that session connect to that computer.

The bandwidth costs for a 3-D world that acts as a lobby are significantly greater than a text lobby, and if they are hosting the instances as well, that's a completely different ballpark.

Rumors of War
schild
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Reply #45 on: April 20, 2005, 10:39:51 AM

I'm underwhelmed despite the fun PvP for one reason:

1. The item system is as deep, but not as FUN as the Diablo item system.
2. It's still a hotkey extravaganza.

That said, I'm still going to buy it, but someone else is leading Bat Country. I'm not having another WoW on my hands. I WILL NOT BE BLAMED FOR THE DEATH OF INNOCENTS.

I will also change my toons name. Right now it's Cleveland Steamer. Just sayin.'
Mesozoic
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Reply #46 on: April 20, 2005, 10:50:42 AM

2. It's still a hotkey extravaganza.

Is this the new term for "button mashing" and/or "twitch"?  Or something else?

No one here wants pvp to be item-based or level-based.  There have been disparaging attitudes towards RPS.  And if twitch is out then I'm not sure what's left.

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
schild
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Reply #47 on: April 20, 2005, 11:00:51 AM

Hotkey extravaganza. You know, like Everquest, WoW or anything with a hotkey bar. Most twitch games don't have one. If they do, they're for weapons - like Deus Ex.

MMORPGs are not like Deus Ex. They are like crap. Only crappier.
Mesozoic
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Reply #48 on: April 20, 2005, 11:08:06 AM

How else would players manipulate 8 powers in a twitch game?   When not switching weapons, FPS players have perhaps two fire modes and maybe some grenades.  If someone made a RPG game like that we would call it a console game for crack-addict 12-yos.

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
schild
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Reply #49 on: April 20, 2005, 11:10:26 AM

How else would players manipulate 8 powers in a twitch game?   When not switching weapons, FPS players have perhaps two fire modes and maybe some grenades.  If someone made a RPG game like that we would call it a console game for crack-addict 12-yos.

I see what you're doing. It's not clever.

Most FPS games have invisible hotbars. Each weapon is assigned to a number key.

What I'm saying is that you sit there, stare at the monster attacking you. Look at your hotbar. And choose a power. SOMETIMES, but not always, you'll have to switch to a new hotbar really fast. It's almost like twitch. But wait for it...

...it's not.

I'm not saying twitch can be done correctly in MMOGs. I'm just saying I'm sick of nearly every game being the exact same game I played years ago. That includes WoW, EQ2, and yes, Guild Wars.
Mesozoic
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Reply #50 on: April 20, 2005, 11:27:17 AM

You're describing a kind of general MMOG malaise, as opposed to some GW-specific complaint.  I guess that answers my question anyway. 

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
-Numtini
schild
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Reply #51 on: April 20, 2005, 11:28:07 AM

You're describing a kind of general MMOG malaise, as opposed to some GW-specific complaint.  I guess that answers my question anyway.

How about this:

Guild Wars should have used the Phantom Dust style of gameplay rather than, well, half-assing that exact thing.
Hoax
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Reply #52 on: April 20, 2005, 02:49:19 PM

The thing that makes Guildwars pvp not suck is that the powers are VERY well designed.

There are some really nifty situational abilities, combo abilities, global abilities, counter abilities ect   Its really nice to see somebody with half a fucking brain design these things instead of:
DoT
DD
DD + DoT
DD + slow
Root
Slow
CC

Its not an new evolution but its an actual gameplay improvement not just bronzed shite ala WoW.  The best example would be to take a look at the Monk and Mesmer spell lists there are some nifty things there.

The combat is fast paced enough that people can suck at it, which is always a good thing but really the VAST majority of skill comes in planning 8 people's skills to have synergy, having good organization and planning.



A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Strazos
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Posts: 15542

The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid


Reply #53 on: April 20, 2005, 10:55:57 PM

I dunno, I had to use a decent amount of thought, planning, and good instincts to do well with my builds in the PvP. My most successful playing time was using builds I made up myself. Some of those templates are really horrid. Especially the elemental weapon ones where the "proc" spells don't work because there are no elemental bows or melee weapons.

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
Hoax
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l33t kiddie


Reply #54 on: April 21, 2005, 11:14:38 AM

Umm I agree Strazos, my favorite BWE character was a Hammer/Air War/Ele that basically had 3 speed bursts and a bunch of knockdowns.  Hell I was also using the healing signet since it was an early BWE and it was just pick-up group pvp.

But I had a ton of fun and just royally fucked casters up (they couldn't escape).

Nifty skills I messed with in that build (just to make my point from earlier):

A speed burst where if I hit a fleeing (back to me) opponent they were knocked down.
A melee attack that caused pbaoe blindness if it struck a fallen opponent (better in pve then pvp)
Healing on my Tank/Nuker (take note EQ clones -it did not break the game).

shit I can't really think of what else I was using but it was very cool.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15542

The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid


Reply #55 on: April 21, 2005, 12:49:21 PM

BTW:

The first ability you mentioned was Bull Strike (or somesuch thing): Knockdown on a fleeing foe.

The second one, Stomach Slam or some crap, it actually Extremely useful in PvP; turns a melee's hit accuracy to about 20%.


I had a bunch of cool builds too. Had a Mes/War using Illusionary Weapon. 100% accuracy for 34 dmg a swing. had some damage mitigation/evasion, self-haste, and 2 spells that drained mana, one of which also healed me. She was a beast.

Finally found a ranger/mesmer combo that worked for me. Troll regen for when I got beat on, and a stance to speed up my recharges. The big thing was stacking Kindle arrows (+30 fire dmg) with poison arrow (18 sec dot). Also had a few abilities to screw up casters; an interrupt that would refill my mana if it worked, a cheap dd, and a spell that, for 10 seconds, would do 91 dmg whenever the caster casts a spell.

Also had a simply beastly Monk...yes, a straight monk. She had 4 target heals, rez, regen, group heal, and some other stuff.

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
Hoax
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l33t kiddie


Reply #56 on: April 21, 2005, 03:19:04 PM

I was looking at the mezmer elite that you use then it becomes a 2nd copy of whatever skill you use next...  That could be built around imo, into some pretty wicked shit.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
HRose
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Reply #57 on: April 29, 2005, 05:40:10 PM

Does GW seriously place instances on the client computers? AFAIK (I haven't studied the tech of battle.net specifically, just used it), it's simply a huge text lobby. When a game starts up, it's hosted (randomly selected) by one of the client computers, and the other players in that session connect to that computer.

The bandwidth costs for a 3-D world that acts as a lobby are significantly greater than a text lobby, and if they are hosting the instances as well, that's a completely different ballpark.
You are off track. Battle.net doesn't work on the clients. The sessions are played on Blizzard's servers. Same of all the versions of Diablo, Starcraft and Warcraft. Today still open and available for free.

Guild Wars is exactly the same, it's all on their servers. Streaming of the client included.

-HRose / Abalieno
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Trippy
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Reply #58 on: April 29, 2005, 08:16:14 PM

You are off track. Battle.net doesn't work on the clients. The sessions are played on Blizzard's servers. Same of all the versions of Diablo, Starcraft and Warcraft. Today still open and available for free.
Umm, no. B.Net is simply a match making service plus a "heartbeat/scoring" mechanism to keep track of games being played. The games themselves are played using a peer-to-peer networking scheme with one machine acting as the "master". This is why, for example, if you want to host a B.Net game (i.e. be the master) you have to open up ports on your firewall othewise you can't act as the master. It's also not a true client/server setup since lag on anybody's system will lag everybody else (i.e. it uses a shared state mechanism).

http://research.yale.edu/lawmeme/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=149


HRose
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Reply #59 on: April 29, 2005, 09:19:49 PM

I don't know before but Diablo 2 for sure was on their servers. I remember I've played *alone* with awful pings. Somewhere the game was hosted, for sure not on my pc.

-HRose / Abalieno
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schild
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Reply #60 on: April 29, 2005, 09:27:04 PM

Even Diablo wasn't always. It's what account for such Terrible Cheating.

Hell, you could play your online character offline in it's own game. So, obviously, battle.net ain't doing that much work.
Trippy
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Reply #61 on: April 30, 2005, 12:49:24 AM

I don't know before but Diablo 2 for sure was on their servers. I remember I've played *alone* with awful pings. Somewhere the game was hosted, for sure not on my pc.
Okay you are correct for Diablo II realm characters -- those are played using a standard client/server (hosted by Blizzard) setup. Open games still only use B.Net as a matchmaking service.
HRose
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Reply #62 on: April 30, 2005, 02:35:15 AM

Okay you are correct for Diablo II realm characters -- those are played using a standard client/server (hosted by Blizzard) setup. Open games still only use B.Net as a matchmaking service.
The same happens with W3 too I think. The ladders work on Blizzard's servers.

This just to say that there isn't anything different from Guild Wars and these other games. If Blizzard is able to maintain all this open and free along the years it means that even GW should.

-HRose / Abalieno
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Trippy
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Posts: 23611


Reply #63 on: April 30, 2005, 03:22:07 AM

Okay you are correct for Diablo II realm characters -- those are played using a standard client/server (hosted by Blizzard) setup. Open games still only use B.Net as a matchmaking service.
The same happens with W3 too I think. The ladders work on Blizzard's servers.
The score keeping/book keeping is stored on the Blizzard servers but the games are still played out peer-to-peer style:

Quote from: WarCraft III FAQ
Does Warcraft III have a Client/Server Model?
No. Due to the amount of units and the number of players in a game of Warcraft III, it is not possible to implement a straight Client/Server architecture as in Diablo II. We are using a variation of the peer-to-peer model that allows us to eliminate some of the abuses found in StarCraft games.

Quote
This just to say that there isn't anything different from Guild Wars and these other games. If Blizzard is able to maintain all this open and free along the years it means that even GW should.

It'll depend on how many people end up playing Guild Wars and how many of them buy the expansions on a regular basis. Diablo II has sold well over 6 million copies so that's a lot of money available to "subsidize" the cost of hosting Realm games.
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