Jade Empire

[Strazos]

That doesn't mean Everything is new. I think we've properly proven that.

Do any of you guys have problems with Harmonic combos?

Not really. They can be a bit touchy, and some mobs appear to be immune (to the instant death effects at least). Just so ya know, you have to use the power attack (X by default) to both begin and end the combo.

[Lum]

Had to groan that our hero is from...Two Rivers.  Gah.  Wheel of time is painful enough as it is without reminders...

It's not a Wheel of Time reference. Chinese place names are just that prosaic when translated (Beijing means "North Gate"). Rather than have the characters speak Chinese names, they speak the place names in "your" language. I thought it was actually a pretty thoughtful touch.

[Xilren's Twin]

Had to groan that our hero is from...Two Rivers.  Gah.  Wheel of time is painful enough as it is without reminders...

It's not a Wheel of Time reference. Chinese place names are just that prosaic when translated (Beijing means "North Gate"). Rather than have the characters speak Chinese names, they speak the place names in "your" language. I thought it was actually a pretty thoughtful touch.

Oh I'm not convinced it was an intentional reference, but I groaned just the same.  Out of all the names they could have chosen, they chose that one.  Then again, the Wheel of Time is a fairly well known series after all, and there is some subtle humor laced throughout the dialogue.  God knows I'll finish this hero's journey long before Rand get's his ass in gear...

Xilren

[Strazos]

I think you people are just making shit up now, quite honestly, with this Wheel of Time reference FTL talk.

The game is based on Chinese history, mythology, and lore. It's only natural that similar naming conventions are used. Really, all Chinese names have other meanings.

Examples from a recent book I had to read (Son of the Revolution, for those wondering):

Liang Dian-jie = "Liang Good News from Dienbienphu"
Liang Fang = "Liang Liberation"
Liang Wei-ping = "Liang Defender of Peace"
Li Zi-hong = "Li Red from Birth"
Mao Zedong = "Mao Benefitting People in the East"

Names have much deeper meanings in the east than in the western world. Also, family names come first, for those who didn't know.

[Murgos]

And yet, the people who made the game were American and there is a very good chance that one of them at some time read at least one of the Wheel of Time books.

Intentional reference or coincidence?  At a certain point it doesn't matter, the truth becomes what it is percieved to be.  Many people who play the game will probably think it is a WoT reference.

[Strazos]

You just killed your credibility in this debate.

BioWare is Canadian.

And anyway, you can continue to go on believing that it's either some obscure literary reference,

Or, it's because the village is by Two Rivers, which actually play a small part in the plot.

[Riggswolfe]

Careful Stragos, you're in danger of getting into an endless argument here.

[Shockeye]

I think we may stray (no offense) into raging douchebag week territory. Let's slowly back away from that line. K?

[Trippy]

When one's foot knows what one's hand is doing, one is dangerous; but if the belly button has not been consulted, havoc will ensue.

Sorry, just wanted to save that for posterity.

[HaemishM]

I've seen bugs filed as "Will not Fix" and you know what? Fuck the programmer. And fuck the lead designer and lead programmer for allowing that. It's lazy bullshit. For every bug that isn't fixed, I want to pay $5 less. Lazy bastards.

I've never worked at a game company before so they may have different standards but at all the software companies I've worked at it would be rare for a rank-and-file programmer to be making decisions about what bugs will or will not be fixed on any decent sized software project, unless "Will not fix" is being used a synonym for "Not a bug" (i.e. "working as intended"). The basic process is for bugs to be filed by the programmers and QA. Product management then reviews each bug with the lead/senior developers and QA people to understand the time needed to fix and retest each bug. PM then prioritizes all the bugs in the order they should be worked on and the programmers work down the list until time runs out.

I think the thing schild is saying that in the game industry, often prima donna programmers override or are not properly managed by the producers, which may be one of the reasons project management is an apparent lost art in the games industry. While many of the detail mistakes may be in the QA/Programmers hands, the scheduling that often makes bugs get swept under the rugs is in the project management's hands. I believe lead designers and programmers are the culprits.

[Stephen Zepp]

It's also an industry wide (and not just game dev, but software dev in general) problem--QA is simply not respected as a contributing component of a development team in most studios.

Look at how the QA career path "ends"--it's almost always an attempt to stepping stone to a different career path, but it's arguably one of the most important contributions to the production cycle--look at how much everyone hates buggy games, and how many games were destroyed due to shitty release versions. Or even look at how it begins--testers are THE lowest paid members of any development team (even the secretary is normally paid more), yet they are arguably of equal importance to the development staff.

To do their job properly, QA needs to be a primary decision maker even in the very beginning of the development cycle--documenting design decisions, planning strategies for confirming implementations work, and continue to work over the course of the project. Instead, the QA process doesn't begin for many products until well after the design, and even development is completed.

I honestly blame Microsoft for this one--they "proved" that it was ok to let the customers QA your product, and that you could even make them pay for the fixes (incremental upgrades, releasing an OS every 2 years, etc.). Once it became "common knowledge" that you could "get away" with that style of QA, you simply can't get companies to do it the right way--there is no "bottom line" benefit that they can recognize.

Anyway, sorry to continue the hijack--this is just a personal soapbox for me!

[Train Wreck]

Too much talking, not enough fighting.

[Stormwaltz]

To close the nomenclature issue, I asked Mike Laidlaw, Jade's lead designer, about Two Rivers. He said that they named it such in the Chinese style, because there were two rivers near it. The Wheel of Time was only brought up "after a month and 5000 pages of documentation."

[Sky]

Anyway, sorry to continue the hijack--this is just a personal soapbox for me!

Soapbox is outdated.

I use 'catbox' these days.

[Merusk]

To close the nomenclature issue, I asked Mike Laidlaw, Jade's lead designer, about Two Rivers. He said that they named it such in the Chinese style, because there were two rivers near it. The Wheel of Time was only brought up "after a month and 5000 pages of documentation."

What, he never heard of "Find and Replace"?

[Astorax]

Hahaha it's allright man, we are not made of glass. I take it by your post count that you'v not been here too long? If that is the case you'll quickly find that such threads are the norm here. As a matter of fact, most of us feel hollow if we don't wake up in the morning and read up on our daily dose of drama =)

Relatively new, I work with Samwise, so I've lurked for awhile, but I figured that it'd be better not to appear to be an asshole right out of the gates...

[Hoax]

If you think of it like prison, being an asshole right off the bat isn't too bad of an idea.

[Astorax]

Oh...well in that case...uh...fuck you?
(I'm not terribly good at being an asshole)

[WayAbvPar]

We can get you into an intensive program- give us 2 weeks and you will be telling total strangers to go fuck themselves!

[schild]

I tried being a reverse asshole. Play nice, pretend you like everyone, lie about being a long-time reader, first time poster.

It seemed to work for, oh, 5 minutes.

Then 4 months later I'm running the site.

Trust me, you don't want to end up like that.

[Paelos]

He's got a monkey avatar, he's good in my book.

[Strazos]

To close the nomenclature issue, I asked Mike Laidlaw, Jade's lead designer, about Two Rivers. He said that they named it such in the Chinese style, because there were two rivers near it. The Wheel of Time was only brought up "after a month and 5000 pages of documentation."

Pwned.

Teh Winnar is Me, kthx.

EDIT: BTW, please thank Mr. Laidlaw for me for his info. Also, his game, IMHO, is kicking a good amount of ass thus far. Then again, I'm extremely Biased, and would probably sleep with....someone, to be able to QA their games and get in early on the goodness.

[Paelos]

EDIT: BTW, please thank Mr. Laidlaw for me for his info. Also, his game, IMHO, is kicking a good amount of ass thus far. Then again, I'm extremely Biased, and would probably sleep with....someone, to be able to QA their games and get in early on the goodness.

He'll also sell his body for a sandwich ladies! Come get some! Bring mayo!

[schild]

EDIT: BTW, please thank Mr. Laidlaw for me for his info. Also, his game, IMHO, is kicking a good amount of ass thus far. Then again, I'm extremely Biased, and would probably sleep with....someone, to be able to QA their games and get in early on the goodness.

QA people don't get enough money for hookers. And no one wants to sleep with most QA folks. So sorry. You'll have to settle for minimum wage or less. This is where a developer would normally add "bitch" to the end of his statement, bitch.

[kaid]

I don't see why the name two rivers brought up the WOT hate like that. Alot of towns are named for geographical features and its not just the asian language where they are prosaic. Hell in wisconsin there is a town named two rivers. Why? because it is between two rivers people are just that creative about naming stuff.


kaid

[Bunk]

I tried being a reverse asshole. Play nice, pretend you like everyone, lie about being a long-time reader, first time poster.

It seemed to work for, oh, 5 minutes.

Then 4 months later I'm running the site.

Trust me, you don't want to end up like that.

Schild, you were kind of like that one guy in highschool: he just shows up in the halls one day hanging out with ue. Everyone assumes that someone else in the groups knows him, no one bothers to ask.

[Shockeye]

I tried being a reverse asshole. Play nice, pretend you like everyone, lie about being a long-time reader, first time poster.

It seemed to work for, oh, 5 minutes.

Then 4 months later I'm running the site.

Trust me, you don't want to end up like that.

Schild, you were kind of like that one guy in highschool: he just shows up in the halls one day hanging out with ue. Everyone assumes that someone else in the groups knows him, no one bothers to ask.

Are you saying it's time to question him and then beat the ever-lovin' shit out of him? Or what?

[WayAbvPar]

Swirly time!

[Shockeye]

Swirly time!

Settle down there Pr0nfleck.

[Furiously]

I've got the door Way. Do it.

[Riggswolfe]

Well I beat it. I immediately made a new character and started again to try it in a new way.

[Xilren's Twin]

I don't see why the name two rivers brought up the WOT hate like that. Alot of towns are named for geographical features and its not just the asian language where they are prosaic. Hell in wisconsin there is a town named two rivers. Why? because it is between two rivers people are just that creative about naming stuff.

Jebus, I make one offhand comment about something that struck me as ironic 30 seconds into the game and chaos ensures regarding chinese nomeclature including an appeal to a dev for clarification.  If only all such game issue were so easily put to bed :)

Still loving the game.  It is just me or did John Cleese voice the English explorer, and some other well know character actor voice the Arena matchmaker, the one with the creative vocabulation...

Xilren

[Stormwaltz]

I don't think anyone actually appealed for clarification on the name. I just looked into it because Mike Laidlaw sits six feet behind me at the moment.

Still loving the game.  It is just me or did John Cleese voice the English explorer, and some other well know character actor voice the Arena matchmaker, the one with the creative vocabulation...

Yes, that was Cleese. The Arena matchmaker was Brian Doyle-Murray, Bill Murray's brother.

Other VAs I found interesting were Nathan Fillion (Firefly) as Gao the Lesser, Armin Shimmerman as Emperor Sun Hai, Robin Atkin Downes (umpteen games, plus whiny telepath Byron in the last season of Babylon 5) as Sagacious Zu, and Kari Wahlgren (Witch Hunter Robin) as Student Lin. Okay, Kari's probably less famous than the others if you don't watch anime...

[Malderi]

Must've been awesome for all the sci-fi geeks there to get Armin Shimmerman and Robin Atkin Downes.

(I hated Downes' character from a story point of view, but it was written well and he acted it well. Shimmerman, of course, being Quark, is awesome.)

[Strazos]

Witch Hunter Robin?

Once again, Teh Winnar Is U!