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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  World of Warcraft  |  Topic: Honor System Q&A 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Honor System Q&A  (Read 3856 times)
Trippy
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Posts: 23657


on: March 31, 2005, 06:28:22 PM

From: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=2309447&P=1

We’d like to thank every who posted constructive questions in last week’s Questions for the Devs: Honor System (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=2134057&P=1)

We took the questions straight to Kalgan, the designer who created the Honor System. Here are his answers:

Does honor always decay, or only from inactivity?
This is a misunderstanding as to how the honor system works. There is no true “decay” there is only a percentage correction between your current honor rating and your new rating. This is because honor points behave more like a rating system.

Does it always decay at the same rate, or does the player’s rank/duration away affect it?
Again, rank changes as a percentage of the difference between a player’s current honor rating and their current week’s honor rating. However, in order to give players a cushion for “off weeks” the correction is substantially faster when a player is increasing their honor rating than it is going down.

Does it decay to 0, or is there some nominal rank it stops at?
Players would typically have to be inactive in PvP for a very long time (months) before they reach zero.

As a working professional I love the current implementation of the rest system. What has been released thus far about the honor system sounds like a grinder's paradise. Are the developers definitely going to include a helping hand, per se, for the casual player?
We have implemented a system very similar to the rest state system for honor. This system will give you a bonus to the number of honor points you earn in a week, up to a certain amount. It is slightly different in that each week the bonus pool re-fills itself completely. Once you have used up this pool for the week, you will earn points at a normal rate.

In addition, since the majority of players in WoW are casual gamers, the majority of player will be competing against players of a similar skill level and playtime. We expect many players to be surprised at how viable they will be in the honor system.

Will the test servers be brought back to test the patch that contains the PvP Honor System?
Yes. The test realm will be brought back up to test the patch that contains the Honor System.

If a raid group takes out say the King does the entire raid group get honor points and does the honor points received scale at all between people in the raid group?
Yes, the entire raid group that tapped the mob will share the honor points. The honor points will be distributed in the same way that experience points are distributed. It should be noted, however, that strategic targets are there to promote conflict and role-play between the Alliance and Horde, so players will find that killing enemy leaders is not a disproportionately large source of honor.

If you attack a player, and that player goes out of sight – heals - and someone later kills him...by going out of sight, we will obviously lose our part of the percentage in the kill, correct?
If a player is in a fight, leaves combat and heals - then gets killed by another, different player – that player will get credit. Once a pair of players leave combat with each other any damage credit is reset.

Are you planning on adding in any sort of dishonor penalties?
We plan on evaluating the Honor System without penalties and moving forward from there. While it is very possible that we will add penalties for dishonor in the future, we are trying to be as careful as possible by evaluating the system with only incentives for killing honorably at first, so we have a better handle on how substantial any penalties would need to be assuming they prove necessary.

What constitutes for an Honorable Kill on the Kill Total page of the UI? Any kill you help with in any degree that nets Honor, or only those with other requirements met (eg; +50% damage dealt), even though others will still net Honor?

I'm basically curious since, even though those totals are just fun stats, if someone that uses a ton of AE will tag far, far more "Kills" than someone attacking single-targets, even though they are grouped 100% of the time and have the exact same Honor. EG: 2 max-rank Humans, 1 Rogue, 1 Mage, exact same Honor, 100% grouped with each other other, but the Mage has 750 more "Kills" because he's constantly getting more credit thanks to Area-effect?

Any honorable kill you contribute damage to will net you honor. However, a small contribution will net you a small amount of contribution points. If you cause slight damage to 10 targets, you may not get as many points as if you caused significant damage to one target. Remember – the target must die in order to get contribution points. In addition, it is important to note that a player’s honorable kill count is meant primarily as a fun thing to keep track of, and is not necessarily a true indicator of a player’s effectiveness. A player’s honor rating and team contribution points are a much better indicator of a player’s effectiveness.

Also, based on player feedback, we have decided to no longer award honorable kills for NPC kills that are not racial leaders so that players do not feel as though they need to “grind” NPC kills for honor. This change will also help the honorable kill totals mean more than they otherwise would.

Will equipment worn that someone no longer has honor for be removed, or can they continue to wear it so long as they don't remove it?
If a player looses the rank required to wear items gained through the Honor System, they will be removed and placed in your inventory space. If your inventory space is full they will be placed in the standard overflow slots.

Could you add a line to the honor character page listing the highest honor ever achieved on that character?
Yes, consider it done. We’ll be releasing screenshots of the new Honor System UI next week…

How does the PvP system that is being implemented affect the world outside battlegrounds. In other words, in contested zones will it be able to control graveyards and other key points?
While we are looking to have PvP affect the outside world in ways that are interesting and most of all fun to players, this will not be a feature that is included in the initial Honor system or Battleground patches.

How do you intend to prevent guilds/individuals from farming honor using the "you kill me, I kill you" system? Unless you LOSE an equal amount of honor for dying as you would gain from killing an equal lvl player, "farming" honor will be the best way to reach the top of the PvP food chain. How do you guys intend to stop this kind of stuff?
As we’ve stated before, subsequent kills on the same player will have diminishing returns. In addition, willful collusion between two guilds of opposing factions is considered an exploit, and participating players will be penalized accordingly. Also, the system can track unusual patterns that help expose this behavior.

Do you have any information on if there will be new spells or talents available to characters with higher ranks?
We currently have no plans to reward players with talents or spells.

Will Raid Leaders receive more honor than a standard raid participant, due to their leadership role? Will there be bonus honor for being the raid leader when a racial leader is killed?
No. Honor will be divided equally to all raid participants.

How long range will honor be split between members of a raid group? If I kill someone on one side of a battleground, will someone in my raid on the other side of the BG get honor points?
It falls in the normal rules of experience gain. You must be in the general area to receive honor.

Will there be Guild Honor Points, and if so, will they be usable for anything? For example, could a guild master with a high honor guild use that honor to purchase items for the guild? (or something like guild housing)
We have no plans for guild honor points when the system goes live.

Will there be additional honor for rapid fire killing? For instance, 3 kills in 30 seconds.
We have no plans to reward players for going on killing sprees, other than the normal honor they earn.

Will there be a survival bonus? For instance, each kill beyond the first without dying equates to more honor.
This will not be a feature upon initial implementation of the Honor system, but is a possible candidate for continued refinement.

Will there be an area of dishonor? A place where no one can kill the opposing faction without losing honor. A good place might be an Argent Dawn tent or camp.
Not at this time. However, there will be times at which players will be worth no honor. For example, when a player loads into the world by crossing an instance line or logging in, or immediately after landing from a flight, that player will be worth no honor temporarily.

Will my title be visible to those around me?
Yes. Players will be able to see your title as part of your name. In addition, players may view your honor tab when they inspect you.

Guild honor-ladders would be nice, is there a good chance this might get implemented?
Not when the Honor System is first implemented.

Will we be able to gain honor within battlegrounds? If so, I will never leave smiley And would destroying/capturing an enemy base in a BG result in a a lot of honor?
Yes. Battlegrounds are instances geared towards promoting PvP. Players who complete objectives in Battlegrounds will receive honor.

Will pvp kills on battlegrounds reward MORE pvp honor than those made in "regular" parts of the server?
No. However players participating in Battlegrounds can earn honor in other ways besides killing players.

Is it possible for the developers to rethink the items becoming unusable due to rank decay?
It isn’t likely, but we will be closely evaluating the system on both the test and the live realms. We feel that since pvp is inherently competitive in nature, the system that rates and rewards players should also be a competitive system and not another leveling system. A rating system helps make it possible for players that enter the game years after the system go live to “catch up” to other players.

Also, as noted earlier, since most players are casual players most players are therefore competing primarily against other casual players that play a similar number of hours per week. This, combined with the “honor system rest state” should allow casual players to make very respectable gains in rank without feeling the need to change their play patterns.

Any other unique weapons that you guys have showed off in screenshots going to appear as honor rewards?
Yes. We have to keep some surprises…
Jayce
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Diluted Fool


Reply #1 on: April 01, 2005, 05:42:50 AM

I'm glad they at least are retaining their focus on providing for casual players.  The proof as always is in the pudding, but Blizzard seems to have their priorities straight .. for now ... in any event.

Witty banter not included.
schild
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Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #2 on: April 01, 2005, 06:04:32 AM

The proof as always is in the pudding, but Blizzard seems to have their priorities straight .. for now ... in any event.

Yes, because server stability isn't important at all.

Sorry, you left the door open. If I didn't walk through someone else would have.
Jayce
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Diluted Fool


Reply #3 on: April 01, 2005, 06:11:21 AM

Sorry, you left the door open. If I didn't walk through someone else would have.

Hey, no reason to apologize to me.  You're entitled to your (wrong) opinion.  (snicker)

I personally am glad they are working on both server stability and content/updates at the same time instead of strictly focusing on the technical issues, but YMMV and whatnot.

Witty banter not included.
schild
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Posts: 60350


WWW
Reply #4 on: April 01, 2005, 06:21:14 AM

I personally am glad they are working on both server stability and content/updates at the same time instead of strictly focusing on the technical issues, but YMMV and whatnot.

That's one way of looking at it. You could also call it the Shadowbane Complex.

Content and updates don't matter if people can't play whenever they want in a stable fashion.
trias_e
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Reply #5 on: April 01, 2005, 07:31:48 AM

Because obviously they can take their entire team of artists and english major uber catass raid designers and tell them to "fix teh servorz!"

Content updates matter quite a bit in WoW, especially considering the team's slow rate of progress thus far.  The attrition rate for level 60's is decently high (and a large amount of my server's popularion is level 60)
tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #6 on: April 01, 2005, 07:37:32 AM

> We expect many players to be surprised at how viable they will be in the honor system.

I expect everyone to surprised be the whole system, its not like you can test the long-term implication of a system like this before you make it live.  Its a treadmill with moving targets.  Closest thing like this we have seen is puzzle skill ratings in Puzzle Pirates. If thats any indication, the top 3 ratings will be a massive dogfight and all the other ratings will be trivil.

If decay is slow, the system will be a treadmill, because the powergamers will out pase everyone else.  If decay is rapid, the system will be a treadmill, because you will need to grind a minimiun each week to keep your postion.

"Me am play gods"
kaid
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Posts: 3113


Reply #7 on: April 01, 2005, 07:40:27 AM

Schild probably hit on my worst fear for WoW. Call me insane hell I likely am insane but I really did enjoy my first 2 months of playing shadowbane. I was in a good guild we had fun built up a very impressive city and the mechanics of character building were amusing to me. But both me and one of my best friends hit a point where 90% of the time we simply could not log in. I am not talking about over a day or so I am talking about over the course of 2 months. Eventually I just hit the point where I had to ask myself what the hell am I doing and I cancelled and never looked back.

I know some friends who play wow on a busier server and they are gnashing their teeth in the same way I did when playing shadowbane. If it continues eventually people will hit the point where the cost per month plus the frustrations about not being able to play when they want to will overcome the fun factor.

That would be really sad because frankly I have a lot of fun when I play wow and I hope they fix these problems and get back to rolling and improving the game. I may be silly but I have subscriptions to both eq2 and wow and I play them both pretty often and I enjoy both. They are both good games in their own ways and different enough that they give me a good change of pace when I start burning out on one. But if they cannot get their server code together and stable I will likely switch back to city of heros for my burnout game.


kaid
Hoax
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l33t kiddie


Reply #8 on: April 01, 2005, 08:25:37 AM

"How does the PvP system that is being implemented affect the world outside battlegrounds. In other words, in contested zones will it be able to control graveyards and other key points?
While we are looking to have PvP affect the outside world in ways that are interesting and most of all fun to players, this will not be a feature that is included in the initial Honor system or Battleground patches."


Oh yeah they have their priorities all figured out  rolleyes

/spits on battlegrounds

I sold my priest because I knew this was how it was going to be, playing on a PvP server is a daily reminder that nobody is even trying to make a good pvp system any more.  Instead they just say there will be some pvp, then pull the rug out from under you by removing any good promised feature and if your lucky they patch some of it in 5 months down the road.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
WayAbvPar
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Posts: 19270


Reply #9 on: April 01, 2005, 09:52:55 AM

I personally am glad they are working on both server stability and content/updates at the same time instead of strictly focusing on the technical issues, but YMMV and whatnot.

That's one way of looking at it. You could also call it the Shadowbane Complex.

Content and updates don't matter if people can't play whenever they want in a stable fashion.

Earthen Ring has been as good a server as there is. Plenty of opportunity for you to LOG IN AND HAND OVER THE GUILD LEADERSHIP.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
Kageru
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Posts: 4549


Reply #10 on: April 01, 2005, 05:59:47 PM


I'll wait and see. The ability of PvP people to use game systems for exploits and irritation is legendary, and blizzard are less clueful than I had hoped.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
Sky
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Posts: 32117

I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #11 on: April 06, 2005, 09:24:47 AM

ZOG NO LIKE COMPLICATED

ZOG KILL GET HONOR

YOU DIE NO HONOR

ZOG WIN HIRE ZOG NOW
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