The Pope has been given last rites

[voodoolily]

There is nothing I can say that wouldn't violate Haem's rules...  So where's the tube lady thread?  :-D

Selma Blair is SO gonna play her in the made-for-tv movie.





Un-fucking-canny.

Edit: Thread started.

[El Gallo]

There is nothing I can say that wouldn't violate Haem's rules...  So where's the tube lady thread?  :-D

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=2572.0

[voodoolily]

There is nothing I can say that wouldn't violate Haem's rules...  So where's the tube lady thread?  :-D

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=2572.0

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=2742.0

[El Gallo]

oic.

[AOFanboi]

Aren't like 90% of the world's catholics outside of Europe? South America, Africa, the Philipines, USA...

In that context putting in another European would be a slap in their collective faces. Perhaps it could lead to a split? The catholics have "split" a couple of times before (Western/Eastern, then that French semi-pope dude).

(Europe is mostly secular, a necessity when you have so many branches of Christianity co-existing - as the Founding Fathers of the USA also knew. Other countries are far more "devout".)

Maybe they should embrace the 19th century and have the members elect a new pope?

[Big Gulp]

(Europe is mostly secular, a necessity when you have so many branches of Christianity co-existing - as the Founding Fathers of the USA also knew. Other countries are far more "devout".)

Actually, there have been several scholars who have speculated about why Europe has become so secular while America is still fairly religious, and the general consensus is it's because Europe has so little in the way of religious diversity.  America's always had a fairly open religious market where nuts like the Puritans and Mormons could flourish.  Much of Europe really hasn't since after the 30 Years War.  The tendency there has been towards official state religions (Anglican church, etc).  That kind of state sponsored monopoly tends to lead to religious ossification and eventually the withering of religious belief.

[raydeen]

America fairly religious? I just spent the last few hours at the local Italian-American club watching CNN's Death-Watch coverage with my wife's cousin's brother-in-law. And as we watched footage of Reagan and Pope John Paul waltz up and down the '80's the soundtrack was Meatloaf's 'I would do anything for love'. And it synched up better then Dark Side of the Moon with the Wizard of Oz. Oh my gawd my heart is black and lost for all of eternity. Jim Beam whispers awfull sweet nothings in my ear.

I sort've feel sorry for the guy. Giving his life for a man-made construct of lies and deceit.

Yes, Religion touched me in very bad places.

And yes, I'm drunk. Sue me. Or ban me.

[Fabricated]

[SirBruce]

I told you he was dead.

Bruce

[CmdrSlack]

I told you he was dead.

Bruce

Don't be an ass, Bruce.  He died at 9:37 PM, Vatican time.  For those who are interested, CNN.com has an article here:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/04/02/pope.dies/index.html

As a very lapsed Catholic, I'm still saddened by this turn of events.  He was the Pope since I was 2 years old, and it's a bit pathetic that the news media will have a field day until a new Pope is selected. 

 

[Abagadro]

Not a big fan of most of his policies, but seemed like a decent dude.  84 is a good run though.

[HaemishM]

I told you he was dead.

Bruce

You are a dick. Shut up.

[SirBruce]

Show some respect in this thread.  It's supposed to be about the Pope, not me.  All these trolling posts are off-topic.

Bruce

[HaemishM]

You are not allowed to post in this thread again. One more and you are gone.

[voodoolily]

On behalf of non-believers who still obey the golden rule, I send my condolences to those of you have have been touched by the pope (humor not intended).

He did seem to have a nice long life, and at least he's not in pain anymore.

Okay, I'm gonna jump outta this thread now before I unintentionally put the proverbial foot in the mouth.

[Rasix]

It was a somewhat wierd feeling hearing about his death.  My parents had come over to visit for the weekend and my dad and I were hoping to watch some golf (nap time!) when the news broke of his death.  My dad's family is very Catholic (we're hispanic, so it's a given) but our family never has been.  We only went to church to make our grandmother's happy when they asked us to come (one worked in a church, one was well, hispanic).

I'm not sure why he went away from the church.  I think being as socially liberal as he is, he probably found it hard to toe the line with the church's views on certain issues.  He also probably wanted us to choose religion for ourselves if we wanted it, not because we were told.  Anyhow, that's just speculation on my part.  So what's the point? Well, talking about it, we both came to the same conclusion: great guy but just put in a time where the church was ill equiped to deal with some of the more pressing socially sensitive issues.  He did a lot of good in his time, but how does a church deal with the issues of AIDs, homosexuality, and priests doing very unpriestly things?

I'll miss the only pope that I've known in my lifetime.  Rest in peace. 

[voodoolily]

He did a lot of good in his time, but how does a church deal with the issues of AIDs, homosexuality, and priests doing very unpriestly things?

I'll miss the only pope that I've known in my lifetime.  Rest in peace. 

No disrespect, but why is homosexuality an "issue" akin to AIDs and child rape? One of these things is not like the other...

[Rasix]

Well for them it is.  Homosexuality becoming more socially acceptable instead some sort of hushed social taboo (I guess it depends on where you live).  As less and less people see it as some sort of great evil, an institution that has been typically opposed to even the mere thought of it probably has to take another look. 

Am I making sense?

Edit: Yes or no will suffice, lets not derail a death thread too heavily :)

[HaemishM]

Homosexuality is an issue, because to the church and its historical doctrine, it has been one of the great no-no's. It's only really in the last 5 years, maybe less, that it's even become socially acceptable to talk about on television. I mean, compare Three's Company's depiction of homosexuality to Will & Grace, just to throw some useless pop culture shit on. In the 70's despite the sexual revolution in America, you couldn't have done Will & Grace. Hell, compare what happened to Ellen Degeneres' career when she came out to the great big /meh that would result from the same thing.

Most of society has not traditionally been that accepting of it. The church... almost ANY church, not just the Catholic church? Even less so.

John Paul II was really very progressive given the office he inhabited and the institution for which he was the most visible figurehead. Some of the those issues the church would never bother to confront head-on, whereas he seemed to take the approach that it's better to shine the light of day on something than to hide it under the covers.

[Roac]

Well for them it is.  Homosexuality becoming more socially acceptable instead some sort of hushed social taboo (I guess it depends on where you live).

There is no doctrinal difference between homosexuality and adultry, for example.  It isn't that the church thinks this one sin is a horrible evil, it's that society used to think it was, and now it thinks maybe not so much, and the church is viewed as archaic when it states that "yes, it's still wrong".  It's also not given any credit when it has spoken out against violance against homosexuals, or when homosexuals are otherwise given "special sin" status by the populas and the church refutes it.  

why is homosexuality an "issue" akin to AIDs and child rape? One of these things is not like the other...

Sexual morality.  If everyone followed the rules, all of them would go away.  It also comes back to attitude of the church; it is not normally hateful toward offenders, either the priests, the homosexuals, the drug users, or the sexually prolific.  Through and through, the attitude of the church in all these cases is "you screwed up, so lets figure out what we can do right from here on." It isn't about "getting even" or the like, it's about redemption due to personal faults.  

Contrast this with popular notions; people withheld tithes from church due to the priest scandal, they often extol violence (even if in mockery) toward those involved, they want social engineering changes (teaching/counselling programs) to fix AIDS, more research toward killing the disease itself, and leaving homosexuals the hell alone.  Society is concerned with not wanting to be told it can't do something, and placing blame somewhere other than the person.  It is concerned with out-smarting the problems in our society, rather than adjusting behavior so that the problems end outright.  Society is of a a "eat our cake and have it to" mindset.

The Pope didn't perscribe to that attitude toward solutions, and it shows in his / the church's stance toward all three of those.  A very personal instance is the assassination attempt; what does the Pope do but go to prison to forgive him.  Very different attitude than what you find from the masses.

[voodoolily]

Well for them it is.  Homosexuality becoming more socially acceptable instead some sort of hushed social taboo (I guess it depends on where you live).  As less and less people see it as some sort of great evil, an institution that has been typically opposed to even the mere thought of it probably has to take another look. 

Am I making sense?

Edit: Yes or no will suffice, lets not derail a death thread too heavily :)

Sure, but it's still not really the same thing.

[CmdrSlack]

So there's a new pope as of just nowish.

Cardinal Ratzinger from Germany is now Pope Benedict XVI.

EDIT -- Bah! Serves me right for necroposting the old thread.  Shoulda looked in politics first.