Hitchhiker's Guide Trailer

[Abagadro]

You people act like every movie needs to be freaking Citizen Kane.

And Full Metal Jacket is a great, great movie.   Saying that is about "one-liners" misses the point. It is about how the human mind has to not only accept absurdity, but to actively seeks out and create it in order to deal with the absurdity of war or risk insanity.  The two halves are critical to each other as the first is about how the preparation for war attempts to dehumanize and deindividualize aperson and the second is how a person them attempts to maintain that identity and humanity in the the face of the worst possible environment. One of the best war films ever made and Kubrick was one of the best war filmakers ever, mostly because he had gone through it personally.

[SirBruce]

Tracy Hickman is a man, man.

Yes, and Margaret Weis is a woman.  So are many of felllow authors she helped get published.

Bruce

[SirBruce]

I could write better stories using my cat's fecal matter and a blowtorch than Ellison could.

Yes, I'm sure you beleive that, but you're an idiot.

Bruce

[Abagadro]

City on the Edge of Forever is pretty good, but other than that, meh.

BTW, the Sci-Fi Dune miniseries is on tonight.

[SirBruce]

Harlan's strength is in his short stories and his non-fiction.  ""Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman" is his classic work, and his Twilight Zone episodes "Soldier" and "Demon With a Glass Hand" are classics (and were also arguably ripped off by James Cameron in The Terminator).  One of my personal favorites is "True Love", one of the best short stories about love ever written.  His essays such as "The Three Most Important Things In Life" and the one who wrote about the Voyager probe at Saturn (I forgot the title) are essential reading.  If you can get it, find his collection of non-fiction columns called "Blood On My Typewriter".  Hell, I love reading his wild-eyed leftist rants and I don't even agree with them half the time.

Bruce

[MaceVanHoffen]

Harlan's strength is in his short stories and his non-fiction.

And he's not very good at either one.  The man is an editor, for cripes' sake.

Most of his work in the TV arena is, in his own words, hacked up and butchered prior to making it on the screen.  Notable in that regard is City on the Edge of Forever.  Yeah, well, I say that (1) behind the scenes, real editors got a hold of his work and saved it from being realized as the Uwe Boll-hack job that it was, and (2) Ellison is just that arrogant to believe that he can write when he is, after all, an editor without any talent beyond being able to spot typos.

As an evidence of the wonkiness of the sci fi fanbois, exhibit A is his last Hugo award.  Notice who he was up against:  "The Fringe" by Orson Scott Card and "Dogfight" by Gibson and Swanwick.  Holy poop on a stick, how can any honest reader read those two works and truly believe them to be inferior to Ellison's absolutely fetid "Paladin of the Lost Hour"?!  I'll tell you how:  The Hugo Award people are screwed up, and Ellison gets the leniency he claims other writers (females) get.  Damn prick.

I have read everything by Ellison that I know of, and I own his 35-year anthology.  So while I may make this statement in idiocy, I do not make it in ignorance:  Ellison sucks.

[schild]

Random Kubrick thoughts:

The dude wrote and directred Paths of Glory at age 29.  He was no hack.

He's a family friend. I had lunch with him a couple times in California. Nice guy. Still does lectures and stuff at UCLA. When I go out to Cali every once in a while I see if he's in town.

Abagadro, considering how alike our taste is, I'm surprised you get pissy with my guilty pleasures.

[schild]

The Fifth Element contains the greatest dvd sound/visual test on the market. (Yes, the opera sequence). It's better than the pod race scene, better than well, shit, anything. The high notes that I believe were sung by Danielle de Niese (who also did Vide Cor Meum, iirc on the Hannibal soundtrack) test the shit out of your speakers. Milla's red hair is great for bleeding.

Basically - the movie is a visual and auditory orgy. That said, it's one of the better sci-fi films ever made, considering at the very least 90% of sci-fi is horrible campy shit that refuses to take itself seriously.

[Abagadro]

Abagadro, considering how alike our taste is, I'm surprised you get pissy with my guilty pleasures.

I honestly don't remember criticizing anything you liked all the much as I do see our tastes being similar. Most of the time I defend stuff from what I think is unwarranted criticism.

[Margalis]

He's a family friend. I had lunch with him a couple times in California. Nice guy. Still does lectures and stuff at UCLA. When I go out to Cali every once in a while I see if he's in town.

Uh...are we talking about the Kubrick that has been dead for several years or did I miss something important?

Anyway FMJ is not a terrible film, or a bad film, but I do think it is terribly overrated. I know what the movie is supposed to be about, blah blah blah, I just don't think it pulls it off very well. The main thing people take away from the film is that the drill sargeant is funny. (Although I got sick of him after the first 5 minutes) Miracle-ing your ass over and all that.

Hickman and Weiss are just terrible. I can't compare them to other D&D novel authors, but I can compare them to other authors. I think it probably takes a certain type of hack to begin with to make a living off of D&D books.

[schild]

He's a family friend. I had lunch with him a couple times in California. Nice guy. Still does lectures and stuff at UCLA. When I go out to Cali every once in a while I see if he's in town.

Uh...are we talking about the Kubrick that has been dead for several years or did I miss something important?

I completely had a brain far when I made the post. I was talking about the producer on Lolita and Paths of Glory. Ignore me, I'm irrational right now. And completely unpredictable.

[Abagadro]

Well they did basically invent the genre.

I think they are very good authors of juvenile fiction and don't make much pretense that they write anything else.  BTW, Hickman is local here in Utah and I've talked to him a couple of times. Very nice guy.  

L.E. Modisette also lives around here and constantly has book signings, but I've never made it to one despite being a big fan.

[SirBruce]

I have read everything by Ellison that I know of, and I own his 35-year anthology.  So while I may make this statement in idiocy, I do not make it in ignorance:  Ellison sucks.

Sounds to me like "New Wave" SF just isn't to your taste.  Perhaps you prefer the hard stuff?  If so, that's fine, but don't knock Ellison for appealing to a different audience.

Bruce

[Nazrat]

Full Metal Jacket is the most accurate depiction of Marine Corps Boot camp that I have ever seen.  The second half of the movie didn't make much sense to me until after serving in the Gulf War.  Now, I get it. 

FYI, the drill instructor wasn't funny at all.  That is how you are trained and it is not funny at the time.  Most Marines that I know have identical boot camp memories that contain most of the elements of the movie. 

Great movie.

[Jayce]

Full Metal Jacket is the most accurate depiction of Marine Corps Boot camp that I have ever seen.  The second half of the movie didn't make much sense to me until after serving in the Gulf War.  Now, I get it. 

FYI, the drill instructor wasn't funny at all.  That is how you are trained and it is not funny at the time.  Most Marines that I know have identical boot camp memories that contain most of the elements of the movie. 

Great movie.

I was just about to make this exact point (only I served in the Army not Marines).  Some friends of mine who had already gone through, when I was getting ready to ship out lo these 15 years ago, showed me the film and said "THIS is what you can expect".  And sure enough, I've never seen a better depiction.

The bad thing is that the DI's ARE funny when you are there.  The thing is, if you laugh or even crack a smile, you will regret the shit out of it.

[Riggswolfe]

Fifth Element is fun and a hoot. Except for Chris Tucker. He needed to be told to take it down about ten notches.

[stray]

Fifth Element is fun and a hoot. Except for Chris Tucker. He needed to be told to take it down about ten notches.

I think somebody already told him.....Haven't seem him for awhile now.

[Bunk]

I can't continue to be around you people. I have no respect for any of you.

What he said...

Ditto.  And I had such respect for Haemish after his Cat Woman review, despite his odd love for certain Kubrick flicks.

But seriously, the reason I hated The Fifth Elephant is the director's very French style.  That cultural sensibility played very well in other films like Amelie and even La Femme Nikita, but not well in a film that purportedly dealt with the human view of gods and demons.  There were so many silly, quirky moments that just broke the fiction for me.  Also, Chris Tucker made me want to strangle puppies.  His voice was on par with Fran Drescher's.

By the by, do we get some kind of award for Most Derailed Thread?

Jesus, now he's deriding my favourite French director...

[Big Gulp]

Wodehouse plots and characters are usually about as thin and unoriginal as a soap opera, but the guy had style in the way he put them down.

Ooooh!  Another Wodehouse geek!  Pound for pound, the only humor writer better was Mark Twain.  I am duly impressed, sir.

[HaemishM]

Edit 2: I read Interview with the Vampire and thought it was really cool, then I read Vampire Lestat and thought it was awful. I think part of it was that I could tell Rice was entering the dreaded never-ending series mode of writing. Tune in next time! Maybe my tastes also changed. It's hard for me to think of another time I've read consecutive books in a series and had almost exact opposite opinions of them.

I'm not sure if it was the "series-writing" mode that caused it, or the fact that Lestat is really just a completely uninteresting character to me that makes me agree with you. I fucking HATED Lestat, in all the books. I wanted to read more about Louis, because he was interesting. Lestat was just "see how fucked up I can make my existence by my immaturity, petulence and arrogance."

But I got outweighed by the angsty goth fags.

EDIT: To get to other parts of the thread.

Ellison is a bitter, twisted hack better left in the mountains somewhere growing a Unabomber beard and never being heard from again.

I thought Tucker was funny as fuck in the Fifth Element, but I can see how others would find him annoying.

[Big Gulp]

The bad thing is that the DI's ARE funny when you are there.  The thing is, if you laugh or even crack a smile, you will regret the shit out of it.

A lot of that is done to try to amuse and one up each other.  It's also great for rattling people; when a private first gets there he has no idea what to expect, he's already on edge.  Then he's assaulted by this dude in uber-starched BDU's screaming inches from his face, but at the same time tossing off one liners.  People aren't used to humor being mixed with terror, so it throws 'em for a loop.

There are also the punishments we come up with.  My personal favorite is if I catch someone using dip or somehow managing to get ahold of a cigarette (usually if a relative comes to visit on a Sunday), they become my cigar store indian.  After dinner chowtime you can expect to do all the cleaning, buffing etc, take care of your personal hygiene, and then you'll be sitting indian-style by the front door to the bay and you'll be required to raise your right hand and say "How." to anyone entering.  You'll be relieved at 23:00 by the fire guard.  With a wakeup of 4:30, your stamina goes to shit, and I usually keep this up for two weeks.  Once I get one guy with this (and I always get at least one) the message goes out that the tobacco jones is easier to put up with than two weeks of being a zombie while getting your ass PTed into the ground and being screamed at.

Every drill has their own unique style, but originality is fairly important.  You want to project the image that not only are you a hardass, but also that you're somewhat unstable.  Of course, we tend to ease up around 2 weeks before graduation.  At that point you're not breaking down anyone anymore.  It's a gradual thing.  The first couple of weeks we are supposed to terrify you and get it into your head that you are no longer your own person, you belong to the US Army.  The middle period is where the bulk of the teaching comes in, and the last couple of weeks are when we ease up.  Of course, that's why we usually have a week or so off between every cycle of privates, because it's not easy switching modes at the drop of a hat like that.  We need to reacclimate ourselves too.

[MaceVanHoffen]

Jesus, now he's deriding my favourite French director...

I wasn't deriding him.  I like Luc Besson's other films.  I think he is both a talented writer and director.  In fact, other than The Fifth Element, I can't think of a Besson film that I didn't like.  As I said before, I just didn't think his cultural sensibilities played very well that particular movie.

[Polysorbate80]

Remember that 2001 was made in 1968. It was far ahead of its time technically and has been a part of our collective conceince on a number of levels. 

And I have no idea why you mythologize 2001 the novel which is marginal at best.

Also don't forget, it's not an adaptation of the novel--Clarke wrote the book concurrently with the movie screenplay.

[Polysorbate80]

L.E. Modisette also lives around here and constantly has book signings, but I've never made it to one despite being a big fan.

I thought he might live in Utah, considering the bad guys in "The Parafaith War" are more-or-less "Mormons In Space".

I like his books a lot, he's one of those few authors that makes me think, even when it's to disagree with him.  Have to take a break between his books though; his characters tend to be pretty similar to each other and it gets old if I overdo the reading.

Now, Ellison?  I'd like to lock him in a room with nothing but a sign that says "Being misunderstood does NOT make you an artist."

[MaceVanHoffen]

Also don't forget, it's not an adaptation of the novel--Clarke wrote the book concurrently with the movie screenplay.

Very true, and point well taken.  However, Arthur C. Clarke is a much better writer than Kubrick is a director.  That's why I liked the novels better.

And, just to keep it straight:  I never said Kubrick was a hack, or that he was a bad director.  Three of his films are some of my most adored pieces of cinema (my enjoyment of Spartacus possibly indicating latent homosexual tendencies, but I digress ...).  I just think Kubrick isn't that far above average, and I don't get why so many accolades are heaped on him when he isn't the best director among his peers, who include such giants as David Lean (The Bridge on the River Kwai, Lawrence of Arabia, et al), about whom you hear almost nothing.  Ergo, I consider him to be overrated, not untalented.  Kubrick just seems to have better press, but more popular != more talented.

[Abagadro]

My opinion is likely colored by my belief that Clark is overated as a writer.  That whole series was very "meh" with me. I think he has cool ideas and stories, but doesn't put them down very well.

[Shockeye]

I think he has cool ideas and stories, but doesn't put them down very well.

I agree completely with that.

[Pococurante]

I think he has cool ideas and stories, but doesn't put them down very well.

I agree completely with that.

Perfect example: Childhood's End.  I first read it around age 11 and it had a profound impact on my worldview.  When I read it again in my early twenties the ideas couldn't captivate me enough to ignore the writing style.  I have that same sensation a lot when I read some of Zelazney's filler - fortunately he has masterworks like Lord Of Light which each time I finish feels like I just polished off a quality epic novel rather than an oversized short story.

I don't think wmovies like 2001 can be widely-circulated now and still have strong impact on the culture.  I don't think audiences today still savor suspense and arching plot development.  People now like to go almost immediately from plot conundrum to resolution.  "Internet generation" is just another way of saying people have shorter attention spans now and get restless pretty quickly.

[Ironwood]

Wodehouse plots and characters are usually about as thin and unoriginal as a soap opera, but the guy had style in the way he put them down.

Ooooh!  Another Wodehouse geek!  Pound for pound, the only humor writer better was Mark Twain.  I am duly impressed, sir.

You and I have had this discussion before.  Wodehouse is great.

The TV adaptations actually worked wonderfully too.

[Roac]

I fucking HATED Lestat, in all the books.

Entirely agree.  I *loved* Interview.  I didn't like the rest, and the series seemed to get worse as it went along.  Body Snatcher was the last I've read, although I've 'read' a couple of the Merrick books on CD.  From a character POV, I liked Louis a lot more.  He felt a lot more believable, compared to Lestat who was just a heidonist with supernatural powers.  Very thin.

[WayAbvPar]

I have tried no less than 4 times to get through The Vampire Lestat. Eventually I get so bored I have to quit. It is really a dreadful book.

[Shockeye]

I have tried no less than 4 times to get through The Vampire Lestat. Eventually I get so bored I have to quit. It is really a dreadful book.

I agree. I enjoyed "Interview with the Vampire" but Lestat was terrible. My wife said the series gets better, but I don't feel like putting myself through that. I have enough grudgereading to do with Robert Jordan every couple years.

[Riggswolfe]

I enjoyed the first trilogy. Out of the first 3 books I found interview to be the hardest to get through. Louis was so whiney I kept wanting to smash his face in. Hell, the only character I liked in that book was Claudia.

[WayAbvPar]

I have enough grudgereading to do with Robert Jordan every couple years.

Heh. That is really what is has come down to, isn't it?

[MaceVanHoffen]

I have enough grudgereading to do with Robert Jordan every couple years.

Ain't that the truth.  Jordan's seminal series started off so strong, and then ... bombed.

Here's a clue Mr. Jordan:  Move the story along with each book instead of retelling the same damn story from a different character's perspective.  Finish Wheel of Time and move on already.