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Author Topic: Diablo IV  (Read 1540 times)
schild
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on: March 17, 2023, 10:41:42 PM

(obligatory join discord if you haven't)

I wish I could zoom out about 10-20% more.

That's my only complaint. They fuckin nailed it.
Threash
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Reply #1 on: March 19, 2023, 04:15:54 PM

It was laggy as fuck when i played, but the fact they got away from armor sets determining your entire build makes this an insta buy.

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Hoax
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l33t kiddie


Reply #2 on: March 19, 2023, 06:07:07 PM

interesting choice doing away with overlay map, very capcom style designer > player. I think I approve.

classes don't really vibe with me personally. I miss zon, monk and crusader a lot when barb doesn't seem that fun.

there's something about these skill tree designs that i do not like. early game feels really really bad. spenders feel like they are in an awkward position. 6 skills max because controllers? consoles? mobile phones? feels bad when the game gives out +1 to hella skill items and you can't even slot all the CD's wont matter lategame but...

feels like the D3 philosophy where nothing matters but items, the skills themselves are just things to be modified by the right items. i don't think this worked well for D3 but i also thought D3 was dogshit so its not like i played it for most of the 10 yrs it existed.

the game wants to be more like D1, it is more like D1 but I'm fairly certain that can't last and it will become sanic speed full clear builds the game eventually.

Barb skills:
Basic > Frenzy and LS are fun. The other two feel bad. Bash always feels bad. Why can't they make Bash feel less bad?
Core > This is where it all falls apart. You can build for Upheaval in the early game because its not bad or you can.... idk. WW can be ok. I'm not sure why HOTA and double swing even bother existing. Feel terrible. Bleed cleave is meh af.
Defensive > who cares, they provide util, its not sexy.
Brawling > Kick is fun to use, great design. I wish Cry was a spender not a CD slotted here, they could have used a cool bleed or stun skill here instead. or something to enable walking arsenal? idk. Charge feels great. They really nailed Kick and Charge. Leap is leap. nothing new works as advertised, seems kinda meh. No suck in leap node sadge.
Weapon Master > Death Blow is big damage fun but only works if its 1-shotting imo otherwise its trash, which probably means its not a great skill. Feels satisfying to use correctly, def worth a try and hopefully items that make it work will exist. No Fury spending Death Blow is a build I'd def try to force. Rupture is the least good feeling skill in the kit. Jesus wept. Takes about 6 seconds too long to do its thing and its thing is trash. I can't imagine a world where this is a good way to increase TTK. Steel Grasp is better than how i remember D3's Scorpion pull. Using chains is still cool even in 2023. Thumbs up for Grasp.
Ults > I'm not sure how much I even like the concept of ultimates. Like I know Mobas were probably massive huge when they started developing this but....  Ults are one of several places where D4 is trying to co-opt Lost Ark tech and making a really shitty version of it. Remember when everything Blizz stole from other games they improved? We were so young and happy back then....   Just give me an ultimate is ready ui thing and a hotkey that you press to ultimate you idiots.

ok ok Barb Ults, CotA is familiar and does what it does. There's an item that gives you mini CotA shadow clone proc chance off certain skills which feels way coooler than this "ultimate". WotB will be good when you can make the perfect ultimate berzerking build for something close to if not hitting 100% Zerk uptime in combat. I question if having an ult + capstone designed for eachother is good design? Seems pretty limiting. But that's clearly what WotB and Unconstrained are.

I'd love for someone who took rogue to 25 to tell me which rogue skills are fun to use. Sorc seems way too easy and way too boring to both build and play and Barb just felt like I was fighting against my class a lot sooooo yeah.

tl;dr the game isn't bad but newbie level Barb might be pretty bad? early levels FEEL great (look and sound) but early character doesn't feel that great but who cares? i distrust the items >>>>>>>> skills/levels rpg design. like this is better than D3 if we've done away with every build is just the build for XYZ set bonus? That's really not aiming high though. i'm going to buy and play if/because everyone is buying and playing because its fun to do things with others but I'd currently put $$$ on my time in lost ark will have more OH WOW moments and cool things I can accomplish with my abilities than this for sure.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 05:17:43 AM by Hoax »

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Rendakor
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Reply #3 on: March 19, 2023, 07:10:28 PM

Sorc was a lot of fun. Going to Barb next was...not. Didn't try Rogue. I'm excited for Necro next weekend, and if I get that to 25 I might futz around with Rogue or Druid.

The lack of overlay map is my biggest complaint, I think. Six skill max sucks too.

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Rasix
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Reply #4 on: March 20, 2023, 09:05:20 AM

I miss the witch doctor. I loved that goofy bastard.

This was fine. It kind of ran like shit, but the improved visuals and sound design were nice. The rogue was a little dull at the start and I just got it for the last day, so I didn't get too far. Skills were kind of low key and boring.

Still, interesting enough to not lament my purchase.

-Rasix
Velorath
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Reply #5 on: March 20, 2023, 02:07:15 PM

Based on the first act and 25 levels, it's hard to make any judgements about a game in a genre that revolves so much around endgame builds and loot. The only thing I can say for sure is that I found it fun, which is more than I can say for a lot of other arpgs (like PoE).

I thought Sorc was pretty fun, Barb thorn build felt the most OP (obviously way too early and low level to make a difference), and Rogue seemed almost the most gear dependent for making fun playstyles. Might have been nice to have more skill slots, especially since +skill gear gives you access to the skill even if you haven't put any points into it.

I have no idea what, if anything, is tweaked specifically for the beta weekends. Legendaries seemed to flow like rain, especially with the gambler equivalent NPC which seemed to give them every 3 or 4 items.
Threash
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Reply #6 on: March 20, 2023, 03:15:27 PM

Based on the first act and 25 levels, it's hard to make any judgements about a game in a genre that revolves so much around endgame builds and loot. The only thing I can say for sure is that I found it fun, which is more than I can say for a lot of other arpgs (like PoE).


You can judge the gameplay, the game was FUN to play. Unlike POE, which every time I read about I think "wow, this sounds right up my alley, let's give it a shot" then I play for an hour and it feels horrible and I quit until I forget all about it again. Fun gameplay kept me playing indefensible shit game Marvel Heroes much longer than I should have.

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Ashamanchill
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Reply #7 on: March 20, 2023, 07:19:27 PM

I'm gonna dip my toe in this weekend. Waiting for the Druid.

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Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #8 on: March 20, 2023, 07:30:29 PM

I played the Diablo 4 early access beta this weekend  (not to be confused with the open beta next weekend, or the pre-launch preview access or whatever the hell they're calling it a few days before full launch).

It's ... not bad?  Much better than D3 anyway.  They seem to have successfully picked some of the best parts from each of the three prior versions and blended them quite well.  And without the abomination of the D3 auction house. The first couple hours felt quite a bit like the first hours of D1.  I had fun.  Not $100 worth of fun yet though, unless you count the priceless value of a weekend spent playing together with the Countess.    Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

The main story is at least better than the usual Metzen stuff. And less melodramatic for the most part, though it does still force-walk your character through some choices you might not want to make.  In fact, there are no RP choices at all.  It's not an RP game any more than D1 or D3 ever was. As far as the story goes, you're a passenger, not the driver.  Sit back and enjoy the ride or get off the train.  Or, like one of my favorite bumper stickers says: get in, sit down, shut up, and hang on!   why so serious?  If you're looking for an open world full of interesting NPC's which react to you based on choices you make and you can write your own story (something Diablo has NEVER been) this is definitely not the game you're looking for.

Respec isn't free but didn't cost much, at least up to the level max of 25 in the beta.  It's still very much a theorycrafter's game but with no long term consequences.  If you want a system that forces you to live-or-die by decisions you have to make before you have a clue what the impact will be, and if you make a wrong one you're fucked in the late game, and insist everyone else live by those same rules, then this is not the game for you.

There were no equipment sets, and apparently won't be at launch, though they are supposed to come out later.  Gear matters a LOT, and one drop could completely redefine your options, even including free skill points in skills you didn't have and couldn't possibly get yet otherwise.  So if you get an awesome drop you can change your build to incorporate it and get a huge boost in effectiveness as well as a chance to try something out you might not have considered before.  The loot Skinner box mechanism is alive and well.  We all got a lot of legendary drops. I got 17, mostly from level 15 on. Too many probably, though there is speculation that was turned up specifically for the beta to give more chances to see and test things in the limited time frame. Everything in your stash is shared between all of your characters, and the level restrictions are very relaxed so you can easily overgear your lower level alts if you so wish.  And get use out of that perfect drop you got for a class you weren't playing. There's not a whole lot of variety in avatar or gear appearance. Sure, there's a few different sets you can mix and match, and a few tints you can color them to, but they mostly seemed kind of samey to me.

Multiplayer-wise, grouping was painless and easy enough to get together from different places in the world. As far as server clusters or shards or whatever I'm sure there were many thousands of people playing but I never saw more than a dozen or so at a time, yet I was always able to seamlessly group up with my friends any time I wanted. I'm not exactly sure how it handles level disparities in group combats or dungeons as we were never more than 2 levels apart.  We were all also playing at the same difficulty level.  Built-in voice chat with group members was trouble-free, we didn't try it with anyone else.  Running into other players both in and out of town was not a horribad unfun experience.  Mostly ignorable actually except sometimes it was nice to be helped out in a difficult event or combat out in the world.  I never did see anyone not in my group in a dungeon instance. I did get to rez some stranger I found outside the entrance to a dungeon. He didn't say anything. Sharing a bedroom (containing your stash, wardrobe, and, yes, a bed you can't use) in town with everyone on the sever was a bit bizzare - it wasn't instanced at all. There might be 5 other people there in your room rummaging in your stash box at the same time you are.  I never had any issues with griefing or the like, if someone kills what you're fighting you both get your own loot. In fact it seems like if anyone killed anything anywhere near you it dropped loot for you.

Public events are fun little diversions.  There is some more level matching magic going on there as it seems anyone of any level can participate or even solo any event, as far as I could see.  Everything I saw in the world was level appropriate to me.  Even going back to the starting area, everything was my level.  I never did try to go way far from whatever area I was in to see if it would get harder the farther I went.  Game difficulty seems to be the mechanism for tuning the difficulty to your preference, with better loot being the reward for increased difficulty as with D3.

The world seems fairly large and competently built. But definitely more Action gamey than RP gamey.  It's Diablo, not Skyrim or Witcher or even WoW.  I don't think there was any procedural content at all, which is nice up front but may mean things get a bit stale after a few times through.  I didn't notice any obvious copy/paste dungeon designs, though lots of places seemed vaguely similar to each other, or very reminiscent of D3 dungeons so possibly they are procedural.  I only went through one more than once, and it was definitely laid out in the same general pattern though I couldn't tell if the details of the passages between the primary locations differed or not.

I really like the little "cellar" locations they have scattered around the map, and some of the smaller dungeons.  The bigger dungeons in the Main Quest Line kind of dragged a bit.  Maybe that's just me though.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 07:38:28 PM by Count Nerfedalot »

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Velorath
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Reply #9 on: March 20, 2023, 10:06:19 PM

I skipped every cutscene or bit of dialogue that I possibly could. I can’t even pretend to care about the story of these games anymore, just point me at the loot piñatas.
Rendakor
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Reply #10 on: March 22, 2023, 05:33:06 PM

Same here Vel, and I would love a "Skip all skippable content" option to save my poor Esc key.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Khaldun
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Reply #11 on: March 22, 2023, 05:33:56 PM

I don't even remember--were there cutscenes in Diablo II?
Rendakor
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Reply #12 on: March 22, 2023, 05:36:05 PM

One per act, if I remember right. They were still novel at the time so they were kind of cool, and Blizzard had really good production values for their cutscenes.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Velorath
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Reply #13 on: March 22, 2023, 05:56:43 PM

Shoving the soulstone into your head at the end of the original Diablo is pretty much the only story bit in the series I remember.
Khaldun
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Reply #14 on: March 22, 2023, 07:54:59 PM

I remember the music and I remember the voices mostly beyond the loot pinatas.
Rendakor
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Reply #15 on: March 23, 2023, 06:23:08 PM

I remember the bit at the end of D2 where the old guy gives the soulstone to Not Tyrael.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
pxib
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Reply #16 on: March 24, 2023, 01:15:33 PM

I remember my brother and I would do terrible Deckard Cain impressions, saying "Stay a while and listen!" or "Horadric Horadric Horadric... Horadric Horadric."
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 02:20:27 PM by pxib »

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01101010
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Reply #17 on: March 24, 2023, 06:45:15 PM

Is Covetous Shen in IV?

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Threash
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Reply #18 on: March 25, 2023, 11:38:29 AM

Is Covetous Shen in IV?

Not that I've seen.

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schild
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Reply #19 on: March 28, 2023, 01:52:45 PM

I skipped every cutscene or bit of dialogue that I possibly could. I can’t even pretend to care about the story of these games anymore, just point me at the loot piñatas.

i get so mad the moment i have to click on a dialogue option to initiate quest dialogue
Threash
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Reply #20 on: March 31, 2023, 03:35:07 PM

This is a "play it for years" game, I can put up with the story once. Once.

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Rendakor
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Reply #21 on: March 31, 2023, 04:24:44 PM

Hopefully we don't have to replay it every league/season.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Reg
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Reply #22 on: April 20, 2023, 12:03:23 PM

There's a Livestream on Youtube right now where the Devs have announced that they're opening up the servers on May 12-14 to everybody to see how they will handle the massive server load they're expecting on opening day.
schild
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Reply #23 on: April 25, 2023, 07:17:46 AM

This is a "play it for years" game, I can put up with the story once. Once.
They announced you only play the story once and can skip it on all future characters.
Trippy
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Reply #24 on: April 25, 2023, 10:42:13 AM

Open Beta May 12 - 14: https://diablo4.blizzard.com/en-us/server-slam

Quote
Server Slam offers one more chance to earn rewards like the much beloved Beta Wolf Pack cosmetic, plus the new Cry of Ashava Mount Trophy**.Earn all four rewards during Server Slam, and receive them once Diablo IV launches:

    Initial Casualty Title: earned by reaching Kyovashad with one character.
    Early Voyager Title: earned by reaching Level 20 on one character.
    Beta Wolf Pack Cosmetic Item: earned by reaching Level 20 on one character.
    NEW Cry of Ashava Mount Trophy**: earned by defeating Ashava with one Level 20 character.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #25 on: April 25, 2023, 11:28:40 AM

Open Beta May 12 - 14: https://diablo4.blizzard.com/en-us/server-slam

Quote
Server Slam offers one more chance to earn rewards like the much beloved Beta Wolf Pack cosmetic, plus the new Cry of Ashava Mount Trophy**.Earn all four rewards during Server Slam, and receive them once Diablo IV launches:

    Initial Casualty Title: earned by reaching Kyovashad with one character.
    Early Voyager Title: earned by reaching Level 20 on one character.
    Beta Wolf Pack Cosmetic Item: earned by reaching Level 20 on one character.
    NEW Cry of Ashava Mount Trophy**: earned by defeating Ashava with one Level 20 character.



This is assuming anyone can even log on and play. I'll be shocked if that happens.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2023, 08:58:58 AM by Riggswolfe »

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Trippy
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Reply #26 on: April 25, 2023, 12:46:11 PM

At least some better be able to log in otherwise they'll need to delay the launch.
Miguel
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कुशल


Reply #27 on: April 27, 2023, 04:16:58 PM


“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
Threash
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Reply #28 on: May 14, 2023, 04:15:29 AM

That Ashava fight was a bitch.

I am the .00000001428%
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #29 on: May 14, 2023, 09:00:34 AM

That Ashava fight was a bitch.

Other than several of the best abilities being nerfed to hell, it being a level 25 Boss and player level is capped at 20, raid size is capped at 12 and the most I ever saw was 11, Legendaries are super rare and you really didn't get much time to farm them, and you get a ridiculously and arbitrarily short 15 minutes to kill him, what's the problem?  why so serious?

I came out 1 of 4.  On the one we won, we had 5 minutes to spare and I even died less than 10 times!  But hey, I got a (yes, one) Legendary (which is completely useless), and a butt demonic hedgehog thingy  spiky mount that I can't use until live and will probably never use then either!

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Threash
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Reply #30 on: May 14, 2023, 11:15:05 AM

I died way more than 10 but we got in my first attempt, luckily I had plenty of extra weapons in my inventory and my build spawned corpses to summon free dps.

I am the .00000001428%
Velorath
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Reply #31 on: May 14, 2023, 09:14:37 PM

Once you learn the fight and aren't stuck with 4 necros in the group who all have their minions out (which promptly die 10 seconds into the fight), it's too hard at all. The last time I did beat him I managed to get through only dying once (due to carelessness).

Also we did managed to get some f13ers together for this a couple times this weekend which was nice.
Threash
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Reply #32 on: May 15, 2023, 08:10:45 AM

If you build to spawn corpses your minions can be refreshed easily. At least they can be doing dps while I spent most of the fight running around.

I am the .00000001428%
Rendakor
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Reply #33 on: May 16, 2023, 01:26:13 PM

I missed the world boss this weekend; didn't have nearly as much free time available as I did during the previous betas. Sucks to miss a cosmetic, but I was never going to go for 100% completion anyway.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Velorath
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Reply #34 on: May 16, 2023, 01:49:24 PM

I managed to get the cosmetic, but I wouldn't have really cared much if I had missed out on it. Once you decide you need every cosmetic item in the game, you're pretty much committing yourself to buying every premium battlepass and every cosmetic microtransaction sold separate from the battlepasses.
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