Hawkeye (Disney+)

[Threash]

I was just assuming it was the iron man watch that turned into an iron man glove, the one Happy was using in What If. Didn't look like it though.

[Khaldun]

Wasn't Mockingbird in Agents of Shield, basically? I get that the show's canonicity is murky but I figure they'd at least be queasy about doing it over again.

[eldaec]

Yes but they never called her mockingbird and the MCU clearly doesn't give a fuck about agents of shield.

If Laura was mocking bird in this universe than Bobbi obviously wasn't and we're all square.

I doubt they'd even call her that here, maybe just reveal she was once an agent and this was a gadget she had inscribed or something.

There isn't a lot of time left so I don't think we're doing a big road trip to the Hawkeye ranch in flyover land. Next week they are going to need to reveal the Mum, and surely have Echo do something remotely interesting to set up the big silly fight that will be the last episode.

[Surlyboi]

WUT WUUUUT?

[schild]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOO LET'S FUCKIN GO

[eldaec]

Wasn't sure I was going to watch it this evening. But now I feel I have to.

[Surlyboi]

[Khaldun]

Pretty sure

[Surlyboi]

Pretty sure

[schild]

Daredevil almost certainly going to be a multiversal whatsit given he's cast in spiderman no way home and how absurd the Dr strange trailer was.

[Khaldun]

The only reason the Netflix shows, along with Agents of Shield, got sidelined was because television pre-Disney + was the way that Kevin Feige sent Ike Perlmutter to the cornfield/send him to the Wall. Feige couldn't afford to have an integrative strategy as long as Perlmutter had called dibs on TV until he drove him into The Inhumans and got the bigger money hats to send Ike to Money Hat Exile.

[HaemishM]

All the Netflix shows should be canon, and No Way Home should absolutely erase Iron Fist from that canon.

[Threash]

Best part of this was Jack just being a random cool dude with a sword.

[eldaec]

Kingpin was weird. It seemed like the writer had a very different idea about the character to the one we know, but the performance was still 100% daredevil.

Anyway this was still fun.

Oh, and there is a mid credits scene.

[Threash]

Pretty sure most of the Kingpin stuff, down to the outfit, was straight out of the comics. Not that it makes it any better, but that's what it was. Can't say I am very interested in the Echo spinoff at this point.

[Khaldun]

That was way more Comics Kingpin than Netflix Daredevil Kingpin, which is fine.

I really think they're consciously trying to build up a street-level/not-cosmic-level layer to the MCU now, which is a good idea.

Otherwise, good!

I think basically I'm seeing: Hawkeye as mentor to the Thunderbolts; Kate Bishop as the "Captain America" of the Young Avengers?

[Trippy]

Eli Bradley is the (wanna-be) super-soldier of the Young Avengers.

Edit: if you meant leader of the Young Avengers then yes in the comics she was co-leader so it wouldn’t be surprising if she had the same role in the MCU.

[Raguel]

Did they ever explain why Armand was killed and Jack framed?

[Khaldun]

I meant leader/emotional heart, yeah.

They didn't really explain why Kingpin wanted Armand dead, but it was on his orders.

[eldaec]

Tbh, none of the plot really made any sense.

But Hawkeye and Hawkeye just carried it with wholesome Christmas buddy vibes.

[HaemishM]

Yes, the reason for most of what happened between the Kingpin and Kate's mom wasn't explained, it was just kind of assumed. I really hope they keep Jack and turn him into the Swordsman, because if ever there was an actor who pulled off the vibe of the character from the comics, it was him. The two leads are what really carried this show.

The Echo series is interesting but I'm not sure the actress can carry a show on her own. She didn't really make much of an impression.

[eldaec]

The Echo series is interesting but I'm not sure the actress can carry a show on her own. She didn't really make much of an impression.

Possibly a bit unfair on the actress as the script gave her no help at all.

But yeah, I'm not looking forward to it. Seems like an easy target for people to complain about a show led by a woman with disabilities.

[Sky]

I agree about the Swordsman, he absolutely nailed it. Impeccable casting, fun to watch, had enough nuance to do a lot of grey stuff with him. Perfect. I put him in there with RDJ and Evans for actors who are so well-cast they become the character.

I also agree about Echo not being strong enough as either a character or actress (I don't know her from the comics, I only call her that because of this thread) to carry a show. I think there were one or two tracksuit bros that performed better. Maybe she can team up with Shang-Chi and they can swirl down a mediocre actor toilet together :D I was actually bummed about her, because I liked the idea and setup.

I enjoyed how they did Kingpin in this one. The nods to the comics and the setup for Kate to become Hawkeye were done with just enough to get it across without belaboring it with too much exposition or explanation.

Overall I feel this was a strong entry into the Didny+ MCU. Great source references, good casting (except Echo), good humor, moved the story along while being entertaining on its own merits.

[Velorath]

I'm not excited for an Echo series yet (we'll see how it goes whenever the first trailer comes out), but I don't have any issue with the casting. The entirety of her function in Hawkeye was to be pissed off (in sign language). There's not a whole lot any actor could have done with the script as written to make the character look like an obvious choice to star in their own series. Ultimately it's going to come down to whether or not they actually have something interesting planned for the character.

[schild]

Ultimately it's going to come down to whether or not they actually have something interesting planned for the character.

what's the bet on this, i'm not against some action

[schild]

I agree about the Swordsman, he absolutely nailed it. Impeccable casting, fun to watch, had enough nuance to do a lot of grey stuff with him. Perfect. I put him in there with RDJ and Evans for actors who are so well-cast they become the character.

He might have been the best casting in the entire show. Just superb.

[HaemishM]

TBH, I wasn't even a huge fan of Echo in the comics. She came in David Mack's run on Daredevil (who is my favorite comics character, don't @ me) and then Bendis used her as the first Ronin in his New Avengers garbage book. I'm not sure the character can carry a show on her own without WandaVision quality writers, and I'm going to assume her show does not have that level of showrunner - Etan Cohen. Not a whole lot of bangers on that list.

[Velorath]

Ultimately it's going to come down to whether or not they actually have something interesting planned for the character.

what's the bet on this, i'm not against some action

I can say I've read a lot of stories featuring Echo, nor have I heard anybody raving about any particular Echo storylines.

The writer's team from what I can see looks ok. Lead writer Marion Dayre appears to have gone from mostly being a writer's assistant on various shows to executive story editor on Better Call Saul. I don't know if Etan Cohen still has any involvement in the show. I mean, it's not like either of us are going to skip it, and Marvel's batting average is still pretty solid.

Dayre also apparently made a now removed post on instagram which seemed to suggest that Daredevil and Kingpin will both be showing up in Echo, so there's that also.

[HaemishM]

The rumor mill has basically pegged the first season of Echo as Daredevil's unofficial 4th season, with a return of all the major cast.

[Surlyboi]

Honestly, the actress is super cute. And the fact that she's an utter newb AND deaf and rocking a prosthetic leg? Let her kick as much ass as possible.