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Author Topic: WandaVision (Disney+)  (Read 5584 times)
Trippy
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on: September 20, 2020, 11:19:13 PM

Pennilenko
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Reply #1 on: September 21, 2020, 07:33:23 PM

I will watch it, but I don't understand it at all.

Is there some comic knowledgeable person here who can explain it?

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Khaldun
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Reply #2 on: September 21, 2020, 07:54:14 PM

So my basic guess is that somehow they're in a virtual reality where the Vison's consciousness survives and somehow Wanda gets a chance to join him there and they're trying to figure out how to build their relationship in a situation where he can't even be 'real'. I would not be surprised if some other Marvel bad guy who operates in that kind of situation is in there with them, unbeknownst to them. Ultron, possibly? Quasimodo? The Mad Thinker? etc.

In terms of what you're seeing, they seem to be in a I Love Lucy sort of sitcom (with a slight touch of the Dick Van Dyke show, maybe), but maybe with some of the set-up of Bewitched (nosy neighbor spotting the superpowers, etc.) but then there's other settings/frames.

The other referencing I can kind of see is:

a) The Vision and Scarlet Witch had two "children" that she created more or less by wishing for them (summoning souls from the netherworld without knowing it) who were then retconned out (driving her dangerously insane, with some ultimately cosmos-changing consequences) and who were then retconned back in as having gone off to an alternate reality, etc. It's possible that Wanda's presence in this virtual reality is not because the Vision is there and she wants to join him but because they need to manage her because she has a remnant connection to the Infinity Stones. I kind of hope not--I really actually hate this version of the Scarlet Witch (reality-altering, crazy, etc.). But that scene where the dude is grilling them about where they are actually from feels a bit like that kind of "you're crazy and somebody is determined to make you feel that you're crazy" thing.

b) I dunno about the witch who is "because you are dead" is, but she might be a new version of Agatha Harkness, a kind of shitty character connected to a hidden city of magic people who became the nanny for the Fantastic Four and then a kind of mentor to the Scarlet Witch. Maybe she's bringing some bad news/good news to them after the sitcom virtual reality breaks down.

c) Other possibility is that they're going to work with the super-bummer but very good Tom King Vision limited series but that doesn't have the Scarlet Witch in it in a major way--however, it does seriously think about AI and androids etc. and they might rip out a few of its best ideas to explore what it means to be the Vision (especially if he's now a completely virtual intelligence). It's possibly that he AND Wanda have to be stuck in a virtual reality because both of them have residual Infinity Stone shit going on and that worries/interests someone good/someone bad and this becomes an exploration of his consciousness primarily. The bit about him dressing up for Halloween in full color feels a bit like that.


Velorath
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Reply #3 on: September 21, 2020, 08:01:41 PM

Scarlet Witch's powers have always been fairly ill-defined. At one point in the comics she was powerful enough to warp reality and that has manifested in dangerous ways either consciously or subconsciously due to trauma. Also at least at one point it was said that there'd be connection here to the Dr. Strange sequel.

So my take is that she's created some sort of pocket reality here where Vision is "alive" but it's unstable as she mentally keeps trying to block out reality.

 
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Reply #4 on: September 21, 2020, 08:09:45 PM



So my take is that she's created some sort of pocket reality here where Vision is "alive" but it's unstable as she mentally keeps trying to block out reality.

 

I hope this is it.

Also, I've seen it described as "disney+'s first sitcom", but that trailer didn't look anything like a sitcom.
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Reply #5 on: September 21, 2020, 08:15:55 PM

? It's set in a sitcom-looking reality. Maybe that's most of the episodes.

There also was an early Vision and Scarlet Witch limited series when they first left the Avengers where they moved to New Jersey and just tried to live a normal suburban life. They may be riffing off that too.

I honestly hope they don't go for Scarlet Witch-reality-warping-powers character. She's been at the heart of some truly terrible shit as a result of that approach.
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Reply #6 on: September 21, 2020, 09:23:08 PM

I'm doubting they are going for the reality-warping Scarlet Witch. Since it has already been stated that this has connections to the Dr. Strange sequel, I'm guessing it will have something to do with trying to bring the Vision back without his connection to that stone since that's what powered him in the first place. It does feel a lot like they are taking some of the tone and ideas from that Tom King Vision series where he created an entire family (wife and kids) and their AI all went in completely different ways. That would be a bold take on the two characters relationship and I wholeheartedly support it.

I'll watch it no matter what story they are taking and I loved the trailer.

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Reply #7 on: September 21, 2020, 10:06:19 PM

Yeah, this is some pocket dimension where Vision isnt technically dead, and Wanda isnt technically real, but yet they are both there. Timey-wimey wibbly wobbly stuff, no happy ending unless Dr. Strange somehow immanentizes the Eschaton and makes Pinnochio into a real boy in his next movie.

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Reply #8 on: September 21, 2020, 11:48:45 PM

I'm doubting they are going for the reality-warping Scarlet Witch. Since it has already been stated that this has connections to the Dr. Strange sequel, I'm guessing it will have something to do with trying to bring the Vision back without his connection to that stone since that's what powered him in the first place.

They never went into any actual detail with how it happened, but Wanda and Quicksilver in the MCU somehow got their powers from the mind stone also. Never really made a whole lot of sense, but there's an added connection there between Vision and Wanda.
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Reply #9 on: September 22, 2020, 10:31:02 AM

They could easily say that because Thanos destroyed the Infinity Stones after the Blip, their energies are sort of cosmically diffused and available to former wielders on a more limited basis. Wanda's the last Mind Stone connected character standing, so maybe she can use that with Strange's help to resurrect the Vision inside an AI-generated environment. (I suspect Strange is going to be dealing with Time Stone-connected issues in his film, considering that was Mordo's reason for turning against him and other sorcerors.) Not sure who would have any remaining connection to the Power Stone, but it might be Star Lord. Jane Foster might be using her connection to the Reality Stone to get the power of Thor.  Captain Marvel seems to be the ongoing wielder of the Space Stone's energies. It's not a bad continuing story contrivance considering how much of the MCU's powers etc. depend on the stones (compared to mutation, etc.)   

I suspect that if Strange ends up really exploring a multiverse, though, that's going to be the mechanism they use to bring a wider range of origins/powers into the MCU.

Reminds me once again that we actually have no MCU explanation for Spider-Man's powers. He's the only major super-powered character so far that isn't powered by super-advanced technology and alien physiology (Thor, Loki), moderately advanced technology (Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, Thanos), sorcery (Dr. Strange, Mordo, Loki) or some form of connection to the Infinity Stones (Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Vision, Captain Marvel, Thanos).
HaemishM
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Reply #10 on: September 22, 2020, 11:10:00 AM

Radioactive spider bite, DUH.  why so serious?

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Reply #11 on: September 22, 2020, 02:22:48 PM

Well, yeah. Although they haven't really even gone over that. (Which I'm glad about--it's a blessed relief not to have Spider-Man's origin retold and to for once not have all of his adventures tied to some great conspiracy etc around his origins.) But it does make him the only MCU character who has superpowers that are a sui generis accident of the classic superheroic sort--there's nobody else who has fallen into chemicals, been exposed to radiation, been zapped by cosmic rays. Well, I guess Netflix Daredevil counts. I don't think AOS Inhumans exist in the MCU, though.

I guess Black Panther is the other exception--the herb is a kind of mutagen and it doesn't seem tied to the other existing sources of more-than-human power in the MCU.
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Reply #12 on: September 22, 2020, 06:15:41 PM

Don't forget Hulk!  And Captain Marvel, I think (her getting her powers was the result of some kind of accident with the experimental spaceship doohickey, right)?

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Trippy
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Reply #13 on: September 22, 2020, 06:26:58 PM

Captain Marvel was blasted by the Tesseract / Space Stone.
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Reply #14 on: September 22, 2020, 06:42:39 PM

Hawkeye!
MahrinSkel
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Reply #15 on: September 22, 2020, 06:44:55 PM


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Reply #16 on: September 22, 2020, 07:54:30 PM

In the MCU, Hulk, Winter Soldier, Red Skull and Captain America are all products of the same set of experiments with the Super-Soldier Serum. I almost would not be surprised to find out that was traceable to an Infinity Stone ultimately. Also would not be surprised if they decided to retcon Extremis to be yet another Super-Soldier Serum offshoot.

At this point, I'm kind of assuming that post-Dr Strange and Eternals and Shang-Chi they're going to try to set up a new status quo.
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Reply #17 on: September 22, 2020, 08:04:35 PM

I'm sure they are, but they didn't commit to an Infinity Stones meta-plot until Dark World, and didn't unequivocally commit to Infinity Gauntlet until GotG.

I think they're heading for some form of "dimensional horrors/cosmic powers" line, but there's a lot of ways to get there in Marvel, and a lot of spade work to be done before we care.

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Reply #18 on: September 22, 2020, 08:05:48 PM

You guys seem to be ignoring what they're doing here - they're constantly evolving the MCU bit by bit to be more fantastical.  You start with a guy with technology.  Then you add super serum soldiers.  Then you add an Alien/God.  Then Aliens.  Then Wizards.  Soon, Mutants.  

I'm betting: Wanda is more powerful than she understood (as her powers tie her to real magic), and as she loses her sanity over her role in Vision's death, she breaks reality to bring him back in an alternate dimension of her making that she sunders and remakes based upon the ideal sitcom stories she has seen.  I Love Lucy, Family Ties, Full House (where she fabricates kids with him)... she tries to have a life with him even though he is dead.  In the end, she has to let him go, but the damage she does to reality is what sets in motion Dr. Strange and the Fucked Up Multiverse.  

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
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Reply #19 on: September 22, 2020, 08:08:15 PM

I really, really hope not. Those have been consistently my least favorite stories in Marvel history, and I don't think I'm alone in that. They're right up there with Superboy-Prime punching the walls of multiversal reality to reset continuity over at DC.
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Reply #20 on: September 22, 2020, 08:46:47 PM

The more they lean into Wanda being able to alter fucking reality at a whim, the less successful this shit will be narratively. I don't think that's the route they are going because it would make more sense for her to try that with Quicksilver than Vision.

MahrinSkel
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Reply #21 on: September 22, 2020, 09:05:45 PM

They wanted Joaquin Phoenix to sign a 6 picture contract for Strange, before he walked away, and by the terms Cumberbatch has only appeared in two (not enough screentime in Ragnorok or Endgame). That implies he's supposed to play a major part in the next phase, and he's only confirmed for 1 in his own franchise.

Since his whole thing is protecting our reality from alternate dimensional horrors/cosmic powers (Celestials), and he seems to be slotted to linchpin the next arc the way Tony Stark did the prior one, that's what I base my speculation on. I also expect we're going to see some more of the Elders.

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Reply #22 on: September 23, 2020, 02:10:38 AM

I really, really hope not. Those have been consistently my least favorite stories in Marvel history, and I don't think I'm alone in that. They're right up there with Superboy-Prime punching the walls of multiversal reality to reset continuity over at DC.


To be fair that has more to do with stuff like Avengers Disassembled and House of M being written by Bendis.
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Reply #23 on: September 23, 2020, 08:04:48 AM

A story concept is not inherently going to fail or succeed.  The crafting, development and delivery of it will determine whether it works or not.  You can tell a good reality warping storyline.  The difficulty level may be higher, but it can be done. 

We have not had a single page for page translation of a storyline of comics into movie.  Everything has been highly adapted, if not completely rewritten.  They do not have to repeat the sins of the past.  However:

1.) As she, Agatha Harkness and Dr. Strange are all coming together in the next couple years of stories, it is likely she is going to be using real magic.
2.) As we see reality warping and Vision returning from the dead, we're likely dealing with altered realities.

I have confidence that the floor of Marvel is Iron Man II quality, and even if this came in at that level, I'd still be amused.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
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Reply #24 on: September 23, 2020, 08:40:16 AM

I have confidence that the floor of Marvel is Iron Man II quality
I can rewatch Iron Man II (just did recently). It's ok.

The floor is any serial they've attempted, like Agents of Shield. The Netflix stuff had moments but was so drawn out that ultimately I have zero interest in rewatching any of it. I haven't even bothered with any of the other stuff (Cloak & Dagger etc), though I do remember people here liked Legion, which I thought was also drawn out to convolution unless you're an Aubrey Plaza fan. Our personal favorite was Peggy Carter, because it was a better version of what AoS tried to do (non-superhero Marvel serial). The casting of Jarvis, Peggy, and Stark worked well together onscreen.

After all that, the idea of some convoluted mess of two mediocre characters is not appealing.

Anyway. They've pumped out a lot of mediocre stuff. I don't feel Marvel has had its Mandalorian moment (where a serial surpasses cinema).

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Reply #25 on: September 24, 2020, 12:45:26 AM

You know, I'd love it if this was actually the Truman Show and Vision is trapped in VR.

But that would be expecting too much of Disney

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Reply #26 on: September 24, 2020, 08:25:03 AM

I have confidence that the floor of Marvel is Iron Man II quality
I can rewatch Iron Man II (just did recently). It's ok.

The floor is any serial they've attempted, like Agents of Shield. The Netflix stuff had moments but was so drawn out that ultimately I have zero interest in rewatching any of it. I haven't even bothered with any of the other stuff (Cloak & Dagger etc), though I do remember people here liked Legion, which I thought was also drawn out to convolution unless you're an Aubrey Plaza fan. Our personal favorite was Peggy Carter, because it was a better version of what AoS tried to do (non-superhero Marvel serial). The casting of Jarvis, Peggy, and Stark worked well together onscreen.

After all that, the idea of some convoluted mess of two mediocre characters is not appealing.

Anyway. They've pumped out a lot of mediocre stuff. I don't feel Marvel has had its Mandalorian moment (where a serial surpasses cinema).

Fair - MAoS was billed as MCU on TV, and it started out that way, but was cast aside.  And, quality - IMO (which few share) - fell off after season 1 when they lost connectivity and direction.  However, if you're going to rail - Inhumans becomes the floor if we include them.

Marvel has not had a Mandalorian moment yet, but there are high hopes for these upcoming D+ series.  Falcon and Winter Soldier could be close to it.  Honestly, Daredevil and Jessica Jones, for me, were pretty dang good, at least in Seasons 1 of each show.  Not Mandalorian good, but very respectable.  

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
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Reply #27 on: September 24, 2020, 01:46:37 PM

Jessica Jones is better than Mandalorian, and Daredevil, at least the first one, is on the same level as it.

I liked Mandalorian, but I think the shock of star wars that is good without caveats has sent everyone overboard.


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MahrinSkel
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Reply #28 on: September 24, 2020, 03:22:30 PM

I'd put both first seasons of JJ and DD up with Mando's first season. Later seasons on both were not as solid. Let's hope that Mandalorian can keep its feet under it, and maintain or improve from here.

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Reply #29 on: September 24, 2020, 11:39:45 PM

Stylistically I like Mando better than the JJ or DD. Also I think all the Netflix Marvel stuff had serious mid-season drag.
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Reply #30 on: September 25, 2020, 11:50:48 AM

If you trimmed the first seasons of Daredevil and JJ I'd agree, but there is more useless fluff that didn't him in both first seasons.  However, Mando's useless fluff was still very entertaining.  You could cut down the key elements into a three hour movie for Mando, but the extra hours of material is all interesting.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
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Reply #31 on: September 25, 2020, 01:48:12 PM

Hopefully Disney is bright enough to realize that Mandalorian is now their flagship for the franchise, and not just a content bridge between the ST and the next movie.

On second thought, that would be terrible, Favreau would have 150 Disney executives trying to stick their hand up his ass and play puppeteer.

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Trippy
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Reply #32 on: September 25, 2020, 02:23:22 PM

He's been an Executive Producer on many MCU movies -- I'm sure he's used to that by now.
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Reply #33 on: September 25, 2020, 03:42:45 PM

First season of DD was still the peak of the entire thing, and a long slow gradual decline from there (lots of good stuff in that decline).  I liked JJ, but even the first season was not as good as any of the DD stuff.

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Reply #34 on: September 25, 2020, 05:47:28 PM

First season of DD was still the peak of the entire thing, and a long slow gradual decline from there (lots of good stuff in that decline).  I liked JJ, but even the first season was not as good as any of the DD stuff.
I agree it was the best of the Netflix Marvel shows - but it was not a gradual decline of show by show.  For example, I liked Daredevil 3 pretty well, but Iron Fist was bad across the board.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
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