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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Baldur's Gate 3 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Baldur's Gate 3  (Read 3606 times)
Sky
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Reply #35 on: June 02, 2020, 03:39:37 PM

We used to run early levels are more of an rp theme with very light combat (town is haunted by a single skeleton, for instance). Most of the xp was from exploration and dialogue/story stuff.

I've only ever played 1st edition, though I did use a lot of 2nd ed stuff adapted back. My first D&D was the original basic set.

For the guys that liked combat only (self-proclaimed macho men aka fragile egos), we would run higher level stuff (and usually stick to modules so nobody had to get offended by thinking too much).

jgsugden
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Reply #36 on: June 02, 2020, 05:41:39 PM

Is it truly round by round turn-based combat, or is it 'spam spacebar every 4 seconds' pause bullshit?
It is real time until you elect to enter round combat.  Then, everyone on your side goes, then everyone on the monster side goes.  You can choose to enter this 'round combat' whenever you want, which will make navigating certain types of traps easier.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Khaldun
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Reply #37 on: June 02, 2020, 08:53:33 PM

I think that's the big thing--you have to run the early levels like a Scooby-Doo adventure, whereas I think most people have in mind Bilbo Baggins dealing with trolls without remembering that he's a level 1 burglar in a party of high-level dwarven fighters and a super-high level wizard. It's got to be story-forward and the situations where characters are going turn-by-turn doing stuff have to be really minimal.

That said, the imbalance in basic D&D between early-level fighters (utterly necessary as damage absorbers) and late-level everything else is a basic design flaw and a lot of Western rpgs (computer and pnp) got stuck on it.
Reg
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Reply #38 on: June 02, 2020, 09:38:26 PM

Whoa, I guess it's AD@D First Edition I've been playing all these years.
jgsugden
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Reply #39 on: June 02, 2020, 10:29:20 PM

I think that's the big thing--you have to run the early levels like a Scooby-Doo adventure, whereas I think most people have in mind Bilbo Baggins dealing with trolls without remembering that he's a level 1 burglar in a party of high-level dwarven fighters and a super-high level wizard. It's got to be story-forward and the situations where characters are going turn-by-turn doing stuff have to be really minimal.

That said, the imbalance in basic D&D between early-level fighters (utterly necessary as damage absorbers) and late-level everything else is a basic design flaw and a lot of Western rpgs (computer and pnp) got stuck on it.
Yeah - have you played 5th edition?

The balance between the classes is a lot closer than you describe, and in many ways is reversed.  A 20th level wizard can cast meteor swarm and deal about 140 damage to anything in a large area. A 20th level fighter may deal 250 hit points of damage to a single target.  There are a lot of mechanics that make it harder and harder for powerful wizards to impact their foes (legendary resistance, the prevalence of damage type resistance) while they buffed the weapon classes a lot.  The wizard is a master of a breadth of abilities at high levels, but the fighters, paladins and their ilk are the heavy hitters. 

And your comment about Scooby Doo adventures seems to imply that low level play can't have in-depth storylines or broad power dynamics present.  Frankly, if that is a problem, the DM needs to learn a bit more about how to run a great game.  Go listen to Season 2 of Critical Role for an example where they is not the case.  And before you toss around the cliché that it is not real D&D - D&D takes a variety of forms.  That game is being run substantially how it was before the streaming, and is not too far off of what I've tried to do for decades. 

If you do not want turn by turn, picking a game that attempts to implement a version of D&D is perhaps not the right game for you - but a lot of people will like it. 

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Mosesandstick
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Reply #40 on: June 03, 2020, 02:19:37 AM

It's interesting that they've gone the real-time by default route, considering that 5e combat doesn't usually last many turns. Combat can be an issue at lower levels, maybe the ideal thing to do is handwave it and just level characters very quickly initially, especially to level 2.
jgsugden
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Reply #41 on: June 03, 2020, 12:02:27 PM

I believe the assumption is that you'll switch to round by round for every combat.  Trying to control multiple PCs with different abilities in real time may be unreasonable.  However, in a multiplayer game, a PC in one map might be real time while a PC on another map might be in round by round.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Sky
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Reply #42 on: June 03, 2020, 01:32:15 PM

Is it truly round by round turn-based combat, or is it 'spam spacebar every 4 seconds' pause bullshit?
It is real time until you elect to enter round combat.  Then, everyone on your side goes, then everyone on the monster side goes.  You can choose to enter this 'round combat' whenever you want, which will make navigating certain types of traps easier.
Really? No roll for initiative or turn queues? Lazy.

Mosesandstick
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Reply #43 on: June 03, 2020, 03:03:41 PM

I believe the assumption is that you'll switch to round by round for every combat.  Trying to control multiple PCs with different abilities in real time may be unreasonable.  However, in a multiplayer game, a PC in one map might be real time while a PC on another map might be in round by round.

That's interesting about the MP functionality (though I'm only interested in SP).
jgsugden
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Reply #44 on: June 03, 2020, 06:21:33 PM

Is it truly round by round turn-based combat, or is it 'spam spacebar every 4 seconds' pause bullshit?
It is real time until you elect to enter round combat.  Then, everyone on your side goes, then everyone on the monster side goes.  You can choose to enter this 'round combat' whenever you want, which will make navigating certain types of traps easier.
Really? No roll for initiative or turn queues? Lazy.
There is an initiative roll, but it is side initiative.  Not lazy.  Intentional.

They talk about why they do it - to speed up the game compared to OS2 (allowing you to move everything then the enemy to move everything takes less total thinking time for the human side - and apparently, in multiplayer the humans can all go simultaneously), and to allow PCs to coordinate (fighter pushed the enemy into position for the wizard to fireball).  

A discussion on how this upgrades on DOS and incorporates D&D core mechanics.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 10:14:00 AM by jgsugden »

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Sky
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Reply #45 on: June 04, 2020, 01:26:48 PM

Yes, thinking is bad.

DevilsAdvocate25
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Reply #46 on: June 04, 2020, 01:55:14 PM

It's interesting that they've gone the real-time by default route, considering that 5e combat doesn't usually last many turns. Combat can be an issue at lower levels, maybe the ideal thing to do is handwave it and just level characters very quickly initially, especially to level 2.

BG2 combat was real time. You could select an option to pause the game when combat started and then choose to play turn by turn, but if you didn't, your characters all ran around and did their attacks without your assistance.
Mosesandstick
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Reply #47 on: June 04, 2020, 03:39:05 PM

Mmm, I know, but I was wondering considering the low number of turns common in 5E why turn-based wouldn't be a better option, apart from historical consistency or audience expectations. And turn based is supposed to be Larian's bread and butter? I've not played D:OS2 (or 1) yet.
jgsugden
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Reply #48 on: June 04, 2020, 04:37:55 PM

Yes, thinking is bad.
I was not disappointed watching it in the preview gameplay.

You always have the option of walking away now and never playing it.  Not much point coming here is you've already decided it is crap.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Ruvaldt
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Reply #49 on: June 04, 2020, 06:20:46 PM

Not much point coming here is you've already decided it is crap.

You've been on f13 long enough to know that's not how it works around here.

"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
Sky
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Reply #50 on: June 05, 2020, 09:18:59 AM

Not much point coming here is you've already decided it is crap.

You've been on f13 long enough to know that's not how it works around here.
No, it's a fair point. I give people shit for sticking around in threads for games I enjoy just to rag on them. Sorry!

jgsugden
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Reply #51 on: June 05, 2020, 08:36:34 PM

Not much point coming here is you've already decided it is crap.

You've been on f13 long enough to know that's not how it works around here.
Look, I've given feedback on the upper left hand corner enough.

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2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Cyrrex
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Reply #52 on: June 06, 2020, 04:35:47 AM

Not much point coming here is you've already decided it is crap.

You've been on f13 long enough to know that's not how it works around here.
No, it's a fair point. I give people shit for sticking around in threads for games I enjoy just to rag on them. Sorry!

It is all fair game and expected to a point, but yeah, at some point just ragging on a game for no reason becomes dickish.  That’s what the Star Wars threads are for!

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
jgsugden
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Reply #53 on: June 06, 2020, 12:45:03 PM

For those that care - whatever announcement was planned for this weekend has been pushed a week in honor of BLM.  The event where it was going to be released is pushed that one week and being replaced by a livestream on June 7 highlighting Black contributions in the game industry. 

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
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