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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: f13 new forum software 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: f13 new forum software  (Read 2323 times)
schild
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on: May 08, 2019, 10:30:26 PM

after less than 5 minutes of looking

(granted, we'd looked before)

we're strongly considering Discourse

https://try.discourse.org/

please go look at it so you can get your bitching about "change" done in this thread

Xenforo is an option but it's like $500 and I'm not feeling that

also discourse has a dark mode built in
Trippy
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Reply #1 on: May 08, 2019, 10:42:15 PM

This was the previous discussion:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=25872.0
Chimpy
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Reply #2 on: May 08, 2019, 11:18:30 PM

All I ask for is that it have SSL enabled (and a valid certificate)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 11:20:13 PM by Chimpy »

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Trippy
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Reply #3 on: May 08, 2019, 11:42:32 PM

What are you trying to hide?
Samwise
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Reply #4 on: May 08, 2019, 11:45:57 PM

Quote
Weve replaced all that with the power of just-in-time loading. Want to read more? Keep scrolling down.

thanks, I hate it

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
schild
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Reply #5 on: May 09, 2019, 12:09:01 AM

Quote
Weve replaced all that with the power of just-in-time loading. Want to read more? Keep scrolling down.

thanks, I hate it

no u love it
Tale
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sıɥʇ ǝʞıן sʞןɐʇ


Reply #6 on: May 09, 2019, 12:24:32 AM

can it stop me missing the half of the conversation that's on Discord?
schild
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Reply #7 on: May 09, 2019, 12:37:34 AM

probably not, discord is the best outlet for endless realtime bullshit

irc reborn as not garbage
lamaros
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Reply #8 on: May 09, 2019, 01:13:09 AM

Quote
Weve replaced all that with the power of just-in-time loading. Want to read more? Keep scrolling down.

thanks, I hate it

+1

Expect poison from the standing water.
Chimpy
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Reply #9 on: May 09, 2019, 01:30:23 AM

Infinite scrolling sucks.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Teleku
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Reply #10 on: May 09, 2019, 02:53:24 AM

Quote
Weve replaced all that with the power of just-in-time loading. Want to read more? Keep scrolling down.
thanks, I hate it
+1

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
IainC
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Reply #11 on: May 09, 2019, 03:26:07 AM

Infinite scrolling sucks.
Discourse is what you get when someone who doesn't understand how forums work, decides to reinvent forums.

It's fucking horrible.

- And in stranger Iains, even Death may die -

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Teleku
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Reply #12 on: May 09, 2019, 03:42:00 AM

Yeah, was not a fan of that demo page above.

I guess that means my vote is for Xenforo?   awesome, for real

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Cyrrex
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Reply #13 on: May 09, 2019, 03:51:14 AM

I don't love it.  BUT I EMBRACE CHANGE.  I'd get used to it, as would most of the the rest of the whiners  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Polysorbate80
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Reply #14 on: May 09, 2019, 04:29:59 AM


Xenforo is an option but it's like $500 and I'm not feeling that


2am, cant sleep, reading without my glasses so question Im too lazy to research, whats involved in that price?  Their buy page is a but opaque.

If Im reading it right its $395 with everything but the stupid $300 no-branding charge, and $205 for renewal?  Some shit lists a base price, some lists a base/renewal, or is all that shit still charged again on license renewal? 

Why the fuck would you ... ? is like 80% of the conversation with Poly Chimpy
Teleku
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Reply #15 on: May 09, 2019, 04:50:39 AM

I don't love it.  BUT I EMBRACE CHANGE.  I'd get used to it, as would most of the the rest of the whiners  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Or it just drives me to stop posting on the forums and go 100% discord.

Change for the sake of Change is a terrible thing.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Cyrrex
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Reply #16 on: May 09, 2019, 04:58:40 AM

Is it just the scrolling that bothers people, or what?  We don't ever have shit active that goes beyond a couple of threads within a specific forum, so I don't know why it would matter.  Assuming, of course, we were to keep the separate forums.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
schild
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Reply #17 on: May 09, 2019, 06:47:33 AM

I don't love it.  BUT I EMBRACE CHANGE.  I'd get used to it, as would most of the the rest of the whiners  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Or it just drives me to stop posting on the forums and go 100% discord.

Change for the sake of Change is a terrible thing.
This isn't change for the sake of change. SMF is missing a massive number of quality of life features and SMF2 is an vacuous pigsty under eternal development that's yielded a lot of nothing.

No one here would even notice infinite scrolling except in politics.

Cyrrex, we'd obviously keep the separate forums. Click the hamburger on the demo.

Xenforo2 is still an option. It's just a decent bit less polished. Iains take above is pretty terrible.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 06:50:42 AM by schild »
schild
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Reply #18 on: May 09, 2019, 06:54:12 AM

I'm going to look at smf2.0 since after like 8 years they finally hit RC2 end of March 2019 (and bonus, it upgrades from any previous version).

Edit: there's also something called flarum, but it seems to be in eternal beta like SMF. SMFs biggest issue (like Flarum) is the absolutely glacial development time.

Edit 2: SMF 2.0 is still a QoL wasteland and requires users to build everything that would make for a decent, modern experience. These fuckin guys.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 07:19:03 AM by schild »
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #19 on: May 09, 2019, 07:37:20 AM

Resetera among others uses Xenforo and I like their forum SW. They even have a dark theme.

The discourse demo page looks rather horrible. The theme is bad and infinte scrolling without thread navigation is basically the fucking worst idea ever if you have threads that are lengthy. I can't imagine how the Trump megathread in politics would even work in such a system or one of the OTs at RE. There's no UI element for "jump to latest reply" in the thread overview (you have to click the post count to get to that) and there's no "down" UI element in the thread view. Also Avatar pictures in the thread overview which I hate.

Also the pricing model for discourse is horrible. They expect you to use their cloud services even if you want to self host (which incurs a $5/month hosting fee with digital ocean) and their own hosting service is $100/$200/$300 per month depending on page views and feature set. I'm always getting suspicious when the "self host" option isn't even documented. At least they mention their key accounts which Xenforo doesn't

After browsing the Xenforo site I'm not sure I would ever buy their SW either.

But I'm using F13 mostly for free so who gives a fuck what I think

IainC
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Reply #20 on: May 09, 2019, 07:44:43 AM

Xenforo2 is still an option. It's just a decent bit less polished. Iains take above is pretty terrible.

I have been part of forum discussions where Jeff Atwood (the main dude behind Discourse) tries to explain what he's doing with it. He is a techbro idiot who believes that social problems have to be solved by tech. Toxic communities, bad faith posters, controversial discussions, etc just need better tools and not better human intervention. As part of the discussion to demonstrate how controversial discussions can be had harmoniously, he cited fucking Stormfront. Unironically. His take was 'Well all of these massive racists are sharing these disgusting ideas, but they are being polite to each other about it." Rather than figuring out that it was like that because everyone on that forum had the same set of disgusting ideas, and that therefore those discussions weren't controversial there, he figure that it was due to the superior forum tech that they were using. He fundamentally does not understand how humans interact.

I use Xenforo2 in a few places and it's probably the best forum experience I've seen recently (as far as feature sets and UX go at least).

- And in stranger Iains, even Death may die -

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Selby
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Reply #21 on: May 09, 2019, 07:52:24 AM

I agree with everything IainC said.
Teleku
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Reply #22 on: May 09, 2019, 07:53:43 AM

This isn't change for the sake of change. SMF is missing a massive number of quality of life features and SMF2 is an vacuous pigsty under eternal development that's yielded a lot of nothing.
For the record, I'm not against a forum upgrade.  I was simply responding to Cyrrex's assertion that change is good and we'll just get use to what ever software you pick no matter how much it bugs us.

If you can find something not ass that lets us do all sorts of extra fun things, then by all means.  Though I really hope whatever software you pick means we can transfer all the posts from the forum to that.  This place is a veritable Library of Alexandria of shitty ancient MMO discussions.  We can't burn this place down.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
schild
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Reply #23 on: May 09, 2019, 07:59:59 AM

We're not switching to anything that won't let us keep the content. Don't worry about that.
schild
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Reply #24 on: May 09, 2019, 08:01:14 AM

Xenforo2 is still an option. It's just a decent bit less polished. Iains take above is pretty terrible.

I have been part of forum discussions where Jeff Atwood (the main dude behind Discourse) tries to explain what he's doing with it. He is a techbro idiot who believes that social problems have to be solved by tech. Toxic communities, bad faith posters, controversial discussions, etc just need better tools and not better human intervention. As part of the discussion to demonstrate how controversial discussions can be had harmoniously, he cited fucking Stormfront. Unironically. His take was 'Well all of these massive racists are sharing these disgusting ideas, but they are being polite to each other about it." Rather than figuring out that it was like that because everyone on that forum had the same set of disgusting ideas, and that therefore those discussions weren't controversial there, he figure that it was due to the superior forum tech that they were using. He fundamentally does not understand how humans interact.

I use Xenforo2 in a few places and it's probably the best forum experience I've seen recently (as far as feature sets and UX go at least).

While this dude is clearly a fucking idiot, it's not really relevant?

I'll look more into Xenforo but their licensing for what you get is horseshit.
Chimpy
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Reply #25 on: May 09, 2019, 08:16:39 AM

Licensing for everything is horseshit though....

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
schild
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Reply #26 on: May 09, 2019, 08:41:44 AM

It sure is.
RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #27 on: May 09, 2019, 10:29:58 AM

Haven't checked the demo yet but beyond anything that we the users see, make sure to check out the backend and what the admins/mods will be seeing and using.  Another forum I'm on switched to IPB years ago and while the boards themselves are fine, I absolutely loathe the admin panel.  Hate hate hate it.  I much preferred what we got with vB for the admin stuff.

I'll check out the demo now.

Trippy
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Reply #28 on: May 09, 2019, 10:57:35 AM

Resetera among others uses Xenforo and I like their forum SW. They even have a dark theme.

The discourse demo page looks rather horrible. The theme is bad and infinte scrolling without thread navigation is basically the fucking worst idea ever if you have threads that are lengthy. I can't imagine how the Trump megathread in politics would even work in such a system or one of the OTs at RE. There's no UI element for "jump to latest reply" in the thread overview (you have to click the post count to get to that) and there's no "down" UI element in the thread view. Also Avatar pictures in the thread overview which I hate.
One thing to keep in mind is that certain visual things like the avatars in the topic list view are presumably easy to change in the theme. Other missing/bad UI things like a missing "jump to latest reply" button can also presumably be added relatively easily. Things that are fundamental to the design like infinite scrolling are probably not so easy to change (if that was there would presumably be a plugin that supports pagination already). However there do appear to workarounds to some of the infinite scroll issues like this scroll bar on the right side on this demo page:

https://try.discourse.org/t/what-happens-when-a-topic-has-over-1000-replies

You can also click on the top and bottom time labels on the scroll bar to jump to the top and bottom.

Quote
Also the pricing model for discourse is horrible. They expect you to use their cloud services even if you want to self host (which incurs a $5/month hosting fee with digital ocean) and their own hosting service is $100/$200/$300 per month depending on page views and feature set. I'm always getting suspicious when the "self host" option isn't even documented. At least they mention their key accounts which Xenforo doesn't
We would run it on our existing server so there wouldn't be any additional hardware cost to us.
Sky
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Reply #29 on: May 09, 2019, 11:23:29 AM

I've been using discourse for over a year now, the online school I use ummm uses it. It's...ok? I dunno, I guess it hasn't bothered me enough to comment. Dark mode is a necessity, so that's cool.

It has a ton of badges and shit to grind on. Yay?

The 'jump to latest reply' is the default when you click on a topic. It seems to heavily base things on 'last visit'. I usually hit Unread (stuff I'm following), then New (uhh), then Latest, in case something fell through those cracks. The topics list will have a little demarcator showing your last visit in the timeline.

Mandella
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Reply #30 on: May 09, 2019, 11:41:58 AM

I too have been using discourse on various other sites for some time now. It seems to work just fine. I can read other people's words, and then put my words in for other people to read. There are threads.

I would be fine with it.
01101010
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Reply #31 on: May 09, 2019, 12:33:31 PM

But what about forum titles?!?

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Trippy
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Reply #32 on: May 09, 2019, 01:28:10 PM

But what about forum titles?!?
I'll add them if there isn't already a plugin that does.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #33 on: May 09, 2019, 02:22:20 PM

What about grief titles?  why so serious?
Trippy
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Reply #34 on: May 09, 2019, 02:54:54 PM

Those too.
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