The Story of Mourning... or... Huh?

[MaceVanHoffen]

Most people did try the game before they bought it...by playing Halo.

Doesn't matter.  Sequels can and do suck.  Just because it has major hype doesn't mean you should preorder it.  If it's a good game at launch, it will be a good game in a month or six.  If it's a bad game at launch, guess what?  You haven't bought a bad game.

[Strazos]

The only time I can ever remember getting burned on a sequel is with DX2 (MMO's nonwithstanding).

Just saying.

[Signe]

Stop trying to teach me a lesson, Mace.  I am obviously beyond help. 

[MaceVanHoffen]

Stop trying to teach me a lesson, Mace.  I am obviously beyond help. 

Bah, I've preordered bad games before, so it's not like I'm all innocent.  My earlier comment was really directed toward the people on the messageboards you linked above and their melodramatic posting about the whole preorder issue.  Caveat emptor, indeed.

[Signe]

At least Mourning inspired my nifty new avatar! 

[Jayce]

I can overlook graphics for good gameplay.  Heck, I still play text-based games.

In my opinion, text > bad graphics.  I can draw some pretty good settings in my mind, but it's hard to overlook something that's visible, but bad.

[Signe]

Unfortunately, no one wins here.  The graphics are rather substandard but even if you are able to overlook that in favour of text, much of that is in some strange Romanian broken English peppered with some of the most creative mispellings I've ever seen.  You don't have to dig far, either... it starts at login.

I can't comment on the gameplay as most of it has not been implemented yet.  If they get that far, and if I can tough it out, I'll post about it.

[Jayce]

much of that is in some strange Romanian broken English peppered with some of the most creative mispellings I've ever seen.  You don't have to dig far, either... it starts at login.

Y'know, I have every sympathy for non-English speaking people who make an effort.  But this is the age of TEH INTANRETS.  There are Americans - unemployed, with English degrees even - as close as an IM away who can proofread and correct text.

So, I don't have any sympathy for non-English speaking people who don't make that effort.

[HaemishM]

I'll overlook shitty graphics for gameplay. I did play Shadowbane, after all.

However, I never thought that we'd see a release that would out-crook, out-suck, and flat out out-stupid World War II Online's launch or Shadowbane's launch. I have been corrected.

[Uthor]

The funniest part of this whole sad story is that the die hard fans are still vigorously defending the company, and its right to defraud the customer/fan base. Completely forgetting that EVERYONE who pre-ordered did so for the "40% discount from the release price" and also not being billed "until the game box was shipped". The pre-order agreement said nothing about signing on (and paying for) for a beta (alpha is more like it) test spot.

Internet fraud (interstate banking fraud as well?) in a nut shell, shame too because I really liked some of the concepts of the game.

[Hoax]

Yeah I visited their boards and frankly I am now almost as afraid of fanboism as I am of religion.

[Signe]

Ack!  Uthor!  Are you following me around?  I see you got yourself banned from the Mourning board... nice work!  You'll find it's much harder to get banned from f13.  You'll have to do a lot more than spell fuck phunny.  Of course if you mingle with people who dress up as baby seals, you might find yourself tormented. :p

Anyway... some devs decided to chat about the game and answer some questions in IRC chat today.   There is one dev named "dantufy" who I sort of feel bad for.  He's just as cute as cute can be and very sincere.  He seems upset as this is his first mmog and he's worked very hard on it.  He mostly does the terrain and, I have to say, it's not too bad.  I hope this doesn't put a damper on his career.  The other, Adonys/Tiamat, the lead developer, I think is not so innocent, although at this point it's really irrelevant.  The details of the conversations aren't really important as it only had to do with the game and not the business practices of the companies that are involved in bringing this game to the public.  That's the issue most would like to see addressed.

Egomancer, the producer, limits himself to posting on the board in what is, at times, a most bizarre fashion.  This is another one of his strange wibbles posted yesterday:

1. NDA will be lifted today.

2. Cancelled orders that have been billed need to be charged back (you need to discuss with the publisher and/or the company that took care of the preorders)

3. Regarding payed beta - we are still discussion solutions here . As soon as we reach a conclusion we will notice you.

4. CDs will be sent to people this week (this is why they have been preordered).

Egomancer

Unfortunately, no one will tell us how to contact the publisher and/or the company that took care of pre-orders.  They telephone number associated with my charge doesn't work... nor, I've been told, do any numbers associated with either of these mysterious entites.

http://www.realmsoftorment.net/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=19379

Then today this:

Because the whole scandal with the preorders charge we decided to change the billing compnaies.

As a developer I do not know who's fault is for people that have been charged twice when they should have been charged once and people that did not have been charged at all even if they preordered.

We will post more info on the new company (that will be a lot larger one) when we settle all the other information about this.


Egomancer

P.S. All the boxes for the preorders will be handled by the current one.

http://www.realmsoftorment.net/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=19447

Of course, we don't want the details of the new company... we want details on the company that CHARGED us!  Unfortunately, this is the bit of info they don't seem willing to divulge.  Every name, address, phone number, etc. that I've looked at associated with thiis is either doesn't work or is erroneous.

Maybe Ego summed it up in a post made a few days ago:

There are a few people here which I really respect. Since this game has been a small one from start we had a tight connection with our fans.And you KoldAleDrinker are one of those guys.

Again, I am telling you that I do not have any option. Really I do not have.

And yes, you will pay to play a game that still should be in an alpha/beta stage. It should never get to this but this was our limit of competence...

Egomancer

P.S. I will write a longer email later because I have something to do at the servers right now...

http://www.realmsoftorment.net/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=19133&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

I don't think most of these guys have any idea what the proper procedure is in making an mmog.  It looks like they put their trust in a "publisher" who also has no idea how to produce a game... and is dodgy to boot!  I think they don't address this issue because they don't know what to say.   In their case, words really ARE hard.

[Spoonbender]

However, I never thought that we'd see a release that would out-crook, out-suck, and flat out out-stupid World War II Online's launch or Shadowbane's launch. I have been corrected.

Well, WW2 and SB were made by professionals. I've started to look at Mourning as a indie MMOG. It's made by people who want to create a good game, but, to be blunt, don't have the resources, discipline and experience of the pro's.
And that shows, I guess... :P

[HaemishM]

However, I never thought that we'd see a release that would out-crook, out-suck, and flat out out-stupid World War II Online's launch or Shadowbane's launch. I have been corrected.

Well, WW2 and SB were made by professionals. I've started to look at Mourning as a indie MMOG. It's made by people who want to create a good game, but, to be blunt, don't have the resources, discipline and experience of the pro's.
And that shows, I guess... :P

No, they really weren't. The Shadowbane team started up pretty similarly to the Mourning team from what I understand. They just happen to have come up during the Internet's Heyday of "We'll invest in anything with the word internet in it." Cornered Rat being professionals? Not knowing of their history before WWIIO, I'd be willing to say they MIGHT have been professionals. They just never acted or produced like it.

[Uthor]

Haha, thanks for the welcome Signe (I think it was a welcome at any rate :)

*Full Disclosure*

When logic fails to win the day, I am not skert to go uber redneck... Trash Talk = Good.

And my goal is simple... crush the enemy and make them look like tard-tastic Michael Jackson nancy boys!!!

Which brings me to my next point of interest...

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Spoonbender
Senior Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Denmark
Posts: 2336
 Reported to the mods...
Why is it so hard to respect the community rules and just pretend to be a mature person?


__________________
"How can you govern a nation that has 350 different kinds of cheese" - Charles De Gaulle



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 - April 12th, 2005 02:57 AM 


The above tid-bit is the reason I was banned and more importantly who engineered it... It is a sad day when a "Has Been" feels the need to jump into the fray when they were NOT even mentioned in any shape, form, or fashion during the discussion.  /sigh...Some people need to feel important I guess. Anyway, nice to be here :)     
 
 

[Evangolis]

However, I never thought that we'd see a release that would out-crook, out-suck, and flat out out-stupid World War II Online's launch or Shadowbane's launch. I have been corrected.

Well, WW2 and SB were made by professionals. I've started to look at Mourning as a indie MMOG. It's made by people who want to create a good game, but, to be blunt, don't have the resources, discipline and experience of the pro's.
And that shows, I guess... :P

That is a terribly insulting thing to say about independant developers.  Puzzle Pirates, ATITD, M59, literally hundreds of other companies have managed to run an indie game without defrauding their customers.

[Koufou]

Hehe, Mourning what a drama, 2 stories I made up:

1) pact with the devil.

So suppose you are a wannabe game developer in Romania, and along comes a "crazy" guy who wants to invest in you making a mmorpg (egomancer stated that at the beginning they were 2 people working, him and the engine guy). Now, why would you invest in Romania? a) cheap, b) nice game ideas c) hackers. Extended background: Romania 10 years ago = communism. No idea about customer rights, liability, political correctness, rotten western capitalism :), public relations, English language, quality control, heck, even disciplined working. I guess the development got until here purely based on coca-cola and adrenaline.

Now, what investor chooses 2 guys in Romania to make a MMORG because of a) b) c)? He's got to be nuts, no? Let's say a single minded, misanthrope, control freak. What do you do as a wannabe dev do you accept or not? And you know  that there is no sensible one risking it (coz it would not be reasonable)...

2) PR bullshit.

So many people complain about big companies and pr bullshit and misleading customers. good. So where is the small company that has a great idea to support?  Well, here it is, but they run out of money, and the publisher owner is shady, breaks trust.  Now  everybody (many) , suspicious, attack. And their arguments:

This is no way how  to treat you fanbase, you have no pr, you have no updated webpage, you are romanians, you can't spell, your ideas don't prove things work, you're to small to survive anyway, pay-for-beta-to-help-bloody-industry-no-way etc.

So it seems everyone(many) cannot live without Sony, Microsoft, etc. Coz they got all the above. And people like it. Customer is king. And everyone just loves indie developers. They are so cute.


I don't even know what I want to say. Will there be more nasty surprises in the future: most likely. Can the devs do something against it: not a bit They don't own the code. The only thing would be to close shop, would you do it as a dev? Will there be a community following them: for sure coz they got their show = addictive. At least until they get bored. I for one, am fascinated. Being Romanian and seeng the shady website 2 years ago I just periodically checked to see their idealistic demise. And it still did not happen and it feels unbelievable. Nice.

[HaemishM]

I have no idea what the fuck you just said.

But my head hurts now.

[Shockeye]

I have no idea what the fuck you just said.

But my head hurts now.

It's probably the swamp gas.

[Furiously]

This is no way how  to treat you fanbase, you have no pr, you have no updated webpage, you are romanians, you can't spell, your ideas don't prove things work, you're to small to survive anyway, pay-for-beta-to-help-bloody-industry-no-way etc.

So it seems everyone(many) cannot live without Sony, Microsoft, etc. Coz they got all the above. And people like it. Customer is king. And everyone just loves indie developers. They are so cute.

I don't even know what I want to say.

Viklas!

[stray]

OK, sorry to derail, but these two words come up from time to time:

Viklas. Pika.

Wtf? Please explain.

[Furiously]

Viklas!!!!!!!!

Pika... You know when little Pikachu is confused and asks...."Pika?" Pretty much - watch an episode of Poke'mon.

[stray]

Viklas!!!!!!!!

Thanks. That was umm...very enlightening. Never watched Pokemon though, so I'm still clueless on that one.

[Signe]

I can say "pofta buna" in Romanian.  It means bon appetite.  The most adorable Romanian school boy taught it to me.  Now you all have an interesting toast at meal time.  The only other stuff I know about Romania is Dracula and the Moldavian band who orginated the song thatthe goofy chubby bloke sings, " Dragostea Din Tei."  http://mapage.noos.fr/martialro/ozone/video.html (very poor quality) If you have, by any chance, toasted "pofta buna", wait until you've digested before looking.  Keep in mind it's a gay song, done by a gay band who all seem to be involved with each other.   

The only real opinion I have about all this is that the developers seem a bit lost in the big, bad world of business and the publisher seems either shady or just as lost.  I suggest they seek advice from a professional if they haven't already.  I don't think it has very much to do with being Romanian.  It would be interesting to know if they even had a business plan and, if so, what it was. 

As for the f13 newbs who have decided to post here regarding Mourning, I don't know who they are and I don't much care if they make sense or not.  This entire story confuses me... what's a little more confusion?  As for what Uthor said about Spoonbender, I disagree. Spoony is Aelf and he's lovely.  So he reported you, Uthor.  So what?  Look at it as a badge of honour, if you like.  I can't tell you how many boards I've been banned from.  I nearly always know when I'm breaking the rules and if I get booted...  yay me.

[Shockeye]

I can't tell you how many boards I've been banned from.  I nearly always know when I'm breaking the rules and if I get booted...  yay me.

Try harder.

[Monika T'Sarn]

It's interesting to reconsider shadowbanes beta and launch in light of the recent string of failing games.
Horizons, Mourning, Wish, Dark&Light, Dragonwars - whatever - all turning out much worse. To many shitty also-rans to even keep up with.
Its the same story all over again - good ideas, bad implementation, out of money, crash&burn.

At the stage these wretched things are launched today, shadowbane added a yearlong beta. Even in beta It was a fun game for more players then some of those new things will ever get. It eventually failed after launch, for me at least, because of the consequences of server problems on city defense - having to hammer the login screen while your town burns down was just to much.
I suppose the difference for shadowbane was getting money from three publishers crazy enough to support that long beta.

[Uthor]

As for the f13 newbs who have decided to post here regarding Mourning, I don't know who they are and I don't much care if they make sense or not.  This entire story confuses me... what's a little more confusion?  As for what Uthor said about Spoonbender, I disagree. Spoony is Aelf and he's lovely.  So he reported you, Uthor.  So what?  Look at it as a badge of honour, if you like.  I can't tell you how many boards I've been banned from.  I nearly always know when I'm breaking the rules and if I get booted...  yay me.

I dont have a problem being booted, it has happened many times. What I have a problem w/ is some ass hat butting into a thread for no other reason than to cause trouble. I had never even mentioned spoon EVER, nor had i ever been for or against any of his idea/rants/what have you. I was defending the people who were robbed to the fanboi base in that thread. Spoon didnt post in it at all other than to brag that he reported me and thus got me banned... so, I dont see any badge of honor in that deal. I see a once "important fanboi" who fell from grace (which took a lot of balls to do what he did to get booted from the ivory tower, and I still respect him for that) trying to be important again at others expense. In other words, i had no issues w/ spoon what so ever, but he felt the need to put on his super citizen cape and butt the fuck in for no other reason than to butt the fuck in and play hero to that group of pathetic losers.

That is in the past now, I just didn't want him to think he was getting a free pass to slight me... all is forgiven :)

[Signe]

Try harder.

At least 7 or 8, not counting my old usenet days.  These include twice at IGN, the UK Big Brother board, Christianforums.com, BOFH conference on CIX,  and some other useless places.  Oh, I'm ip banned from corpnews too, it sems.   This doesn't include my olden usenet days.

I've also been banned from The Realm, Helbreath, The Legend of Mir and dozens of MUDs. 

I'm ashamed.   

None of it was my fault.

No... really.

[Uthor]

Haha, don't get me wrong, I fully deserved to be banned... that is not the issue. The issue was him bragging about getting me banned ;)

Side note though... the usual words of "color" are filtered, hence the "phukn ignorant" comment. But, so are the words "fraud and scam"... very strange indeed !!!

[Evangolis]

I have no idea what the fuck you just said.

But my head hurts now.

I think it translates as "Don't blame the devs, they meant well."

Which is bullshit.

Project management is part of the job.  The game needs to come in on time and on budget.  That is as important as the graphics or the gameplay, and something that a lot of developers have screwed up.  We've roasted of them plenty for it.  Ignorance is no excuse, incompetence is no excuse, being from a foriegn country is no excuse.  The devs failed, and now the publisher has done something probably illegal to try to cover his losses.  Nobody gets a free pass on this one.

[Uthor]

This, I believe, is the fat lady warming up...

http://www.pcgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4521&highlight=julie+blue

[schmoo]

Try harder.

At least 7 or 8, not counting my old usenet days.  These include twice at IGN, the UK Big Brother board, Christianforums.com, BOFH conference on CIX,  and some other useless places.  Oh, I'm ip banned from corpnews too, it sems.   This doesn't include my olden usenet days.

I've also been banned from The Realm, Helbreath, The Legend of Mir and dozens of MUDs.

IGN doesn't count; even I've been banned from IGN, more than once, and I'm the least bannable person ever.  I'm not sure Corp counts either.

[Signe]

Who would ban Schmoo from anything?  He's such a sweet old fart!  I only said anything because I don't want Shockeye to think I'm not trying.  I always pour my heart and soul into everything I do... unless I'm feeling lazy. 

As for this:

This, I believe, is the fat lady warming up...

http://www.pcgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4521&highlight=julie+blue

What the bloody hell does PCGamer and Julie Whatever have to do with Shadowbane?

[Uthor]

Who would ban Schmoo from anything?  He's such a sweet old fart!  I only said anything because I don't want Shockeye to think I'm not trying.  I always pour my heart and soul into everything I do... unless I'm feeling lazy. 

As for this:

This, I believe, is the fat lady warming up...

http://www.pcgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4521&highlight=julie+blue

/quote]

What the bloody hell does PCGamer and Julie Whatever have to do with Shadowbane?

shadowbane???

[Evangolis]

Damn, getting old, gotta explain the in-jokes.  And the Quote mechanism.

"What does this have to do with Shadowbane?" was a throwaway from the original Lum the Mad site, out of some derailed Shadowbane thread, I think. It became a line used to comment on derails and irrelevancies, and for general humor purposes.  I think there is still a Wiki around with all this stuff on it.

The quote stuff you guys gotta figure out on your own.  Try using preview more, don't just post straight.