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Author Topic: Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order -- new EA Star Wars game  (Read 4430 times)
Sir T
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Reply #70 on: August 18, 2019, 09:48:03 AM

Did you know that Phil LaMarr voiced Samurai Jack?

And James Avery voiced The Shredder.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
DevilsAdvocate25
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Reply #71 on: August 19, 2019, 04:26:43 PM

complaining that this specific Disney product has a white male lead was dumb.

No it isn't.  tongue

I want to play a Wookiee Jedi. Subtitles and all.
Sir T
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Reply #72 on: August 20, 2019, 08:37:03 AM

MUURRROOOAAAGGGHH

Subtitle: MUURRRRROOOAAAAGGGGHHHH

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Sky
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Reply #73 on: August 20, 2019, 09:14:11 AM

Rodians have been underrepresented and portrayed poorly for far too long.

Greedo:
This time HE shoots first!

And not no fucking blue rodian country ass shit, either

Riggswolfe
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Reply #74 on: August 20, 2019, 10:25:11 AM

I'm not sure I get why this title specifically has backlash over a white male lead. I see complaints about no customization but outside of RPGs, that's not often the case in these purely action games. Uncharted didn't have character customization. You were the dude they made or you didn't play the game. Same with Tomb Raider.

I'm not saying the overall point isn't valid. I'm just not sure why it has come up so much with this specific game.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
HaemishM
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Reply #75 on: August 20, 2019, 10:52:14 AM

Probably because since it's EA and will probably have a veritable fuckload of loot boxes *AHEM* surprise mechanics, Disney has been painfully transparent in their attempts to market Star Wars to female/non-traditionally geeky and male audiences, and because it's an easy mark.

Sky
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Reply #76 on: August 20, 2019, 10:59:04 AM

Tbh, I'm all for less catering to the traditional gamer nerd.

Surlyboi
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Reply #77 on: August 20, 2019, 12:57:21 PM

Tbh, I'm all for less catering to the traditional gamer nerd.

Pretty much that, fuck those guys.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
HaemishM
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Reply #78 on: August 20, 2019, 01:59:58 PM

Oh yeah, fuck those incel cunts in their earholes.

Riggswolfe
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Reply #79 on: August 20, 2019, 05:06:38 PM

I love variety in character creation myself. If you can't make a female or a non-white character in a game it irritates the hell out of me. (So many damn games launch with "Females coming soon!" it blows my mind...)

Anyway, I quite like this actor due to his work on Gotham so am happy with JokerJedi personally. I don't think it'd have hurt at all to have a few character models you could flip through though. I just think the backlash targeting this game in particular is kind of odd. I'll take it over the Incels whining about Rey and Finn any day though.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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Reply #80 on: August 21, 2019, 09:33:54 AM

It seems rather arbitrary when some topic becomes hot for some particular game. Hot Coffee, for example, in GTA San Andreas. Then time passes and you have fully-rendered titties in God of War, which generally doesn't spark any real controversy that I recall. I assume it's just the usual case of activists picking out a stick and flogging us with it, rather than any sort of logical approach.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #81 on: August 21, 2019, 01:03:33 PM

Star Wars in general has been more progressive than average on the whole.  This is a weird ass conversation.

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Azazel
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Reply #82 on: August 27, 2019, 02:52:45 AM

Arguing about too many white male Star Wars protagonists is totally the hill to choose to die on. Because it's still  ̶1̶9̶7̶7̶ ̶1̶9̶8̶0̶ ̶1̶9̶8̶3̶ ̶1̶9̶9̶9̶ ̶2̶0̶0̶2̶ ̶2̶0̶0̶5̶. And while you might be all humans = boring, it's got the widest appeal.

Most importantly, fuck EA. (and fuck Respawn these days, too!)

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Azazel
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Reply #83 on: August 27, 2019, 03:06:10 AM

I love variety in character creation myself. If you can't make a female or a non-white character in a game it irritates the hell out of me. (So many damn games launch with "Females coming soon!" it blows my mind...)

Anyway, I quite like this actor due to his work on Gotham so am happy with JokerJedi personally. I don't think it'd have hurt at all to have a few character models you could flip through though. I just think the backlash targeting this game in particular is kind of odd. I'll take it over the Incels whining about Rey and Finn any day though.

Depends on what the game is, and how central the protagonist's story is as an individual to the writers and project devs (not us, basically). The Ubi guys made a big deal about how from now all all AssCreed protagonists will be a choice of male or female, and they've done that for the last couple of Far Crys. I'm cool with that. I'm also cool with Uncharted being Nathan Drake's story, Lost Legacy being about the female leads, Aloy in Horizon, Lara in Tomb Raider, and so on. People need to get over their little fucking agendas and let games makers make their own stories. As long as we have a good balance of representation and not exclusively a collection of shorn-headed, gruff white males, I'm good with it.

I agree that if you're going to offer a character creator, then devs need to do that shit properly, but within reason. Alexios and Kassandra obviously needed to be Greeks, etc.

Oh, and thanks for the Incels thing. I'd never heard of those. Another set of useless shitbirds.

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Riggswolfe
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Reply #84 on: August 28, 2019, 02:02:43 PM

I love variety in character creation myself. If you can't make a female or a non-white character in a game it irritates the hell out of me. (So many damn games launch with "Females coming soon!" it blows my mind...)

Anyway, I quite like this actor due to his work on Gotham so am happy with JokerJedi personally. I don't think it'd have hurt at all to have a few character models you could flip through though. I just think the backlash targeting this game in particular is kind of odd. I'll take it over the Incels whining about Rey and Finn any day though.

Depends on what the game is, and how central the protagonist's story is as an individual to the writers and project devs (not us, basically). The Ubi guys made a big deal about how from now all all AssCreed protagonists will be a choice of male or female, and they've done that for the last couple of Far Crys. I'm cool with that. I'm also cool with Uncharted being Nathan Drake's story, Lost Legacy being about the female leads, Aloy in Horizon, Lara in Tomb Raider, and so on. People need to get over their little fucking agendas and let games makers make their own stories. As long as we have a good balance of representation and not exclusively a collection of shorn-headed, gruff white males, I'm good with it.


I haven't played an Assassin's Creed in forever but in Far Cry at least it didn't seem to make a difference. It was all first person and I'm not sure even cutscenes really showed your character and I never noticed any difference in reactions or dialogue based on gender. Still, the option is nice to have.

This game is more of an Uncharted/Tomb Raider game from what I see. That means it's probably not worth it to them to do two or more versions of cutscenes for different genders and such so they made a choice. I get that. I'd probably have been happy with any human protagonist (I'm a speciest, what I can say. "Human Power!")

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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Reply #85 on: August 28, 2019, 02:57:59 PM

On the other hand a game like Assassin's Creed Odyssey is also 3rd person has two genders with a shit ton of animations and voiced cut scenes. And the Mass Effect games with two genders are all about the voiced cut scenes too. So it could've been done -- they just chose not too.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #86 on: August 28, 2019, 03:02:27 PM

On the other hand a game like Assassin's Creed Odyssey is also 3rd person has two genders with a shit ton of animations and voiced cut scenes. And the Mass Effect games with two genders are all about the voiced cut scenes too. So it could've been done -- they just chose not too.


Mass Effect is a massive (hah!) RPG with tons of choice and a detailed character creator. I'm not saying they couldn't have, minimum, given a choice between genders. I'm just saying it's weird this specific game got pushback on it when others are given a pass. I don't buy "Star Wars is progressive" because the whining of the Incels about Rey and Finn is deafening these days. And let's not forget, Padme died because she was bummed her boyfriend broke bad.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Trippy
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Reply #87 on: August 28, 2019, 03:26:53 PM

It's not weird it's being picked on cause it's EA.
Surlyboi
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Reply #88 on: August 28, 2019, 11:18:51 PM

On the other hand a game like Assassin's Creed Odyssey is also 3rd person has two genders with a shit ton of animations and voiced cut scenes. And the Mass Effect games with two genders are all about the voiced cut scenes too. So it could've been done -- they just chose not too.


Mass Effect is a massive (hah!) RPG with tons of choice and a detailed character creator. I'm not saying they couldn't have, minimum, given a choice between genders. I'm just saying it's weird this specific game got pushback on it when others are given a pass. I don't buy "Star Wars is progressive" because the whining of the Incels about Rey and Finn is deafening these days. And let's not forget, Padme died because she was bummed her boyfriend broke bad.

Meh, pretty sure the protagonist is a guy because the story will ultimately end up as Canon and with the new Disney rules on what is and isn't canon, the ability to create your own toon flies solidly in the face of that.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Riggswolfe
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Reply #89 on: August 28, 2019, 11:22:33 PM

On the other hand a game like Assassin's Creed Odyssey is also 3rd person has two genders with a shit ton of animations and voiced cut scenes. And the Mass Effect games with two genders are all about the voiced cut scenes too. So it could've been done -- they just chose not too.


Mass Effect is a massive (hah!) RPG with tons of choice and a detailed character creator. I'm not saying they couldn't have, minimum, given a choice between genders. I'm just saying it's weird this specific game got pushback on it when others are given a pass. I don't buy "Star Wars is progressive" because the whining of the Incels about Rey and Finn is deafening these days. And let's not forget, Padme died because she was bummed her boyfriend broke bad.

Meh, pretty sure the protagonist is a guy because the story will ultimately end up as Canon and with the new Disney rules on what is and isn't canon, the ability to create your own toon flies solidly in the face of that.

I could see it. I do wonder, if on some level, this isn't a reaction to Rey and the Battlefield 2 protagonist. (I forgot her name, I actually enjoyed her story too!). Like "fine, we gave you a dude now, happy?"

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Cyrrex
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Reply #90 on: August 29, 2019, 12:32:41 AM

On the other hand a game like Assassin's Creed Odyssey is also 3rd person has two genders with a shit ton of animations and voiced cut scenes. And the Mass Effect games with two genders are all about the voiced cut scenes too. So it could've been done -- they just chose not too.


Mass Effect is a massive (hah!) RPG with tons of choice and a detailed character creator. I'm not saying they couldn't have, minimum, given a choice between genders. I'm just saying it's weird this specific game got pushback on it when others are given a pass. I don't buy "Star Wars is progressive" because the whining of the Incels about Rey and Finn is deafening these days. And let's not forget, Padme died because she was bummed her boyfriend broke bad.
Meh, pretty sure the protagonist is a guy because the story will ultimately end up as Canon and with the new Disney rules on what is and isn't canon, the ability to create your own toon flies solidly in the face of that.

That was my take as well.  If they want to make real canon around the character (which probably won't work, but that's a different question), it is easier to keep the race and gender static.  OTOH, they already have Revan, so....I don't know.  But mostly, who fucking cares.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Sky
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Reply #91 on: August 29, 2019, 08:31:09 AM

Did I just see the opinion of 'the incels' as a reason for SW not being progressive?

 why so serious?

Come on, man.

Sir T
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Reply #92 on: August 29, 2019, 10:17:24 AM

Its pretty weird anyway because the glass ceiling of Female protagonists as main characters has been broken on PC games for literally decades. Just off the top of my head I can name Tomb Raider, Metroid, the Longest Journey, Remember Me, Gone Home, Bayonetta etc etc. So crying becasue they are actually using a white Male for once is... pretty stupid

Now granted this is Star Wars where peoples brains dribble out the back of their skulls rather than admit the Movies just are Not That Good, so they lash out at unimportant bullshit rather than just dismiss Star Wars as something that really isn't that great or important anymore. And of course there is their seething resentment of having got rid of the EU and the (for example) Mandalorians that could break Jedi in half with one twitch of their Manly eyebrow muscles.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #93 on: August 29, 2019, 10:46:09 AM

Did I just see the opinion of 'the incels' as a reason for SW not being progressive?

 why so serious?

Come on, man.

That wasn't what I meant though it did come across that way. I meant that Disney and/or EA might have just wanted to not have something get bitched about for once so they were like "fine, no loot boxes, and the main character is a white male. Will you shut the fuck up now?"


"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Sky
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Reply #94 on: August 29, 2019, 11:37:46 AM

Ok, not as funny but better point  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Surlyboi
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Reply #95 on: August 29, 2019, 09:08:00 PM

On the other hand a game like Assassin's Creed Odyssey is also 3rd person has two genders with a shit ton of animations and voiced cut scenes. And the Mass Effect games with two genders are all about the voiced cut scenes too. So it could've been done -- they just chose not too.


Mass Effect is a massive (hah!) RPG with tons of choice and a detailed character creator. I'm not saying they couldn't have, minimum, given a choice between genders. I'm just saying it's weird this specific game got pushback on it when others are given a pass. I don't buy "Star Wars is progressive" because the whining of the Incels about Rey and Finn is deafening these days. And let's not forget, Padme died because she was bummed her boyfriend broke bad.
Meh, pretty sure the protagonist is a guy because the story will ultimately end up as Canon and with the new Disney rules on what is and isn't canon, the ability to create your own toon flies solidly in the face of that.

That was my take as well.  If they want to make real canon around the character (which probably won't work, but that's a different question), it is easier to keep the race and gender static.  OTOH, they already have Revan, so....I don't know.  But mostly, who fucking cares.

Yeah, Revan and the Force Exile after them is technically not cannon, same with the protagonist in Jedi Academy after Disney's Order 66 on the EU, so we're back to square one.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Cyrrex
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Reply #96 on: August 30, 2019, 12:40:39 AM

I thought of the Jedi Academy main character as well, but didn't mention it because it is pretty obscure.  Revan, on the other hand....I am not following Disney's canon rules, but I thought Revan might have been considered canon on some level?  The Galaxy of Heroes game has him/her, and he/she is probably the most powerful in the game.  I thought they only included canon characters, which currently included Old Republic character.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
eldaec
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Reply #97 on: August 30, 2019, 04:46:43 AM

Lots of licensees use non canon material and Disney don't seem super bothered. They talk about everything not canon as 'legend'. Which isn't a completely bonkers way of managing it.

Revan is a legend.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #98 on: August 30, 2019, 04:52:25 AM

So that's to say that all the Old Republic stuff is considered Legend?  I haven't really paid attention to such things since the Mouse took over.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #99 on: August 30, 2019, 05:05:29 AM

Disney only regards the Expanded Universe books, most of which are set after Return of the Jedi as non-canon. That doesn't mean they won't steal ideas, but it does mean that games and books set before the main star wars movies are treated as canon until Disney wants to recon. I'm in the "call me when EA and Disney gets bored of star wars and stops making stuff for them camp" so I literally just heard of this game today.

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eldaec
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Reply #100 on: August 30, 2019, 06:28:04 AM

That plainly isn't the case.

Everything is now labelled canon or legends.

Lots of pre tPM stuff is legends. Possibly all of it, I'm not sure. Everything Kotor is legendary, not canon. Bits of it occasionally become canon when a canon source refers to them, for example, GCW era people have recalled that the mandalorian wars happened, but not a lot more than that. If a future canon writer wishes to decide that those people are mistaken, I suspect they would be allowed to do that.

It gets used as inspiration and nobody at Disney gives a fuck if FFG want to make a Malak miniature or EA put Revan in a non-canon game.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ≠assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Riggswolfe
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Reply #101 on: August 30, 2019, 12:04:32 PM

When Disney took over they said everything not in the main movies or Clone Wars cartoons was legends. Period. Except for new material they put out. It was a good idea. The EU was terrible for the most part with the exception of the KOTOR stuff and the X-wing novels. Seriously, George Lucas seemed to let them do anything they wanted in novels and comics and it got increasingly bad over time.

One thing that's been happening is people have been sneaking Legends characters into canon stuff and making them canon again. The most famous example is Thrawn. He became an official part of canon thanks to the Rebels cartoon. I wish the same was true for Mara Jade but sadly, it's not meant to be. Revan may have been brought into canon in a similar manner though I haven't paid attention to it. Disney seems mostly obsessed with stuff from the Prequel era to their own sequel trilogies and hasn't branched out much into any other eras of the franchise.


"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Khaldun
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Reply #102 on: August 31, 2019, 10:02:35 PM

Basically, it was a smart move. The EU stuff contained such a wild riot of good, bad and utter rot. They wanted to be free to take whatever seemed good in all that steaming pile and not have insane fans telling them but but it says here that Darth Bane had a child with a Dathomir Witch who had a pet yslamiri that met a wookie once and so... If I'd bought the entire SW license lock stock and barrel I would have done exactly the same thing--none of it is 'binding', all of it is useful source material for stories going forward.

Sir T
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Reply #103 on: September 01, 2019, 03:36:37 AM

The problem with using Revan is that to use Revan you have to nail down some basic facts that due to game mechanics they left vauge, like basic things like Revans gender. If the were to use that character, it will probably be as some humand that has evoilved into something completly nonhuman in order to keep the game "cannon," and to explain why he is alive 1000 years after KOTOR. Or actually slap a face on Revan and risk pissing off group X Y and Z.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Cyrrex
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Reply #104 on: September 01, 2019, 10:46:06 AM

Not necessarily.  Revan is already used in a couple places where they donít reveal gender.  And besides, what better way to please the SJW types than to include a genderless mask-wearing badass?

Anyway, I find myself not caring.  There is plenty of good stuff they could draw from the old material anywhere along the timeline if they wanted.  I actually think the Darth Bane character works on a number of levels.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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