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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order -- new EA Star Wars game 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order -- new EA Star Wars game  (Read 4438 times)
Azazel
Contributor
Posts: 7714


Reply #105 on: September 04, 2019, 03:46:14 AM

I haven't played an Assassin's Creed in forever but in Far Cry at least it didn't seem to make a difference. It was all first person and I'm not sure even cutscenes really showed your character and I never noticed any difference in reactions or dialogue based on gender. Still, the option is nice to have.

This game is more of an Uncharted/Tomb Raider game from what I see. That means it's probably not worth it to them to do two or more versions of cutscenes for different genders and such so they made a choice. I get that. I'd probably have been happy with any human protagonist (I'm a speciest, what I can say. "Human Power!")

In Far Cry, it doesn't really make a difference due to 1st person silent protagonist, but given that you're playing as a character and that the character is essentially a tabula rasa, it's nice to put your own spin on it. Besides, it's got that co-op element to it as well, so my African American deputy ran around with my wife's Latina as we shot the shit out of the game's multi-racial religious nutso hillbillies, and that had a nice feel to it.


On the other hand a game like Assassin's Creed Odyssey is also 3rd person has two genders with a shit ton of animations and voiced cut scenes. And the Mass Effect games with two genders are all about the voiced cut scenes too. So it could've been done -- they just chose not too.

And I'm ok with that. Like I'm ok with the lead in Gears 5 being a woman, or not being able to choose the gender of Aloi or the race of Nathan Drake or to play as Peter Parker vs Miles Morales vs Spider-Gwen in the Spidey game (though that last one would have been quite cool). I'm good with a mixture of choice, assigned race and/or gender/(species), and pretty much everything in between for games.

Like I said, context matters a lot. I was in a lore argument here a few years ago over Space Marine when a couple of people were all like "why can't I be a female Space Marine for this videogame?" and the (very reasonable, I thought) answer was "thirty years of established lore from the game's licensor". Reply then was "they should just change it" (for this licenced game that will be forgotten in 2 years), to which I pretty much facepalmed. OTOH, GW should have changed it with the advent of the Primarins revamp a couple of years ago - a missed opportunity for sure there.

On the other hand, shit like Ubi's piss-poor excuses for not having a female option for AC: Unity "animashuns are too hard for make at woman player" on the other hand, I'm not cool with.


Mass Effect is a massive (hah!) RPG with tons of choice and a detailed character creator. I'm not saying they couldn't have, minimum, given a choice between genders. I'm just saying it's weird this specific game got pushback on it when others are given a pass. I don't buy "Star Wars is progressive" because the whining of the Incels about Rey and Finn is deafening these days. And let's not forget, Padme died because she was bummed her boyfriend broke bad.

Star Wars has become progressive, and that's genuinely a good thing. I like Rey and Finn. The problem I have with Star Wars is that of the four new movies, one has been good (R1) one has been decent despite (or because of?) being a retread (TFA), one has been pretty bad but ok if ou have super-low expectations (Solo) and one was just fucking awful (TLJ). The issues there weren't because of the casting or the genders or races of the actors - just like Sam Jackson, Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman, Liam Neeson and even poor old Hayden Christiansen - all of whom are good to amazing actors - the issue is with the writing and directing - which includes the totally lame way that Padme went out. But as much as we old nerds love the OT, Lando and that Bespin security guard may as well have had "token" patches on their clothing, which amazingly was still better than what we saw in ANH.


It's not weird it's being picked on cause it's EA.

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http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Sir T
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Posts: 12627


Reply #106 on: September 04, 2019, 04:07:50 AM

On the other hand, shit like Ubi's piss-poor excuses for not having a female option for AC: Unity "animashuns are too hard for make at woman player" on the other hand, I'm not cool with.

To be fair, a woman skeleton is different to a male skeleton, so if you want to do it right you do have to make different animations. Japanese and Korean games are ctually very good at mocapping with the different Genders for their characters, so theres no reason why UBI couldn't have done it if they weren't lazy fucks and not spend a bit of extra cash. Or you could go the GTA 5 route and effectivly just add tits and a waist to the male model and call it a day. 95% of people woudn't notice or give a shite if they did.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
eldaec
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Posts: 10916


Reply #107 on: September 04, 2019, 09:49:58 AM

The problem with using Revan is that to use Revan you have to nail down some basic facts that due to game mechanics they left vauge, like basic things like Revans gender. If the were to use that character, it will probably be as some humand that has evoilved into something completly nonhuman in order to keep the game "cannon," and to explain why he is alive 1000 years after KOTOR. Or actually slap a face on Revan and risk pissing off group X Y and Z.

The most popular solution when other games use Revan is that he/she wears a mask. It was the same solution Kotor itself used in prerendered cutscenes and solves pretty much all issues.

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Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12627


Reply #108 on: September 04, 2019, 10:47:42 AM

The most popular solution when other games use Revan is that he/she wears a mask. It was the same solution Kotor itself used in prerendered cutscenes and solves pretty much all issues.

True enough. Mask, obviously robotised voice and away we go.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7013


Reply #109 on: September 04, 2019, 11:03:20 AM

Prior to Disney and Revan becoming Legends he was by "canon" male and the Force Exile (KOTOR2's main character) was female. I don't think it matters too much though in the SWTOR MMO he's also a male when you fight him in a raid.


On the other hand a game like Assassin's Creed Odyssey is also 3rd person has two genders with a shit ton of animations and voiced cut scenes. And the Mass Effect games with two genders are all about the voiced cut scenes too. So it could've been done -- they just chose not too.

And I'm ok with that. Like I'm ok with the lead in Gears 5 being a woman, or not being able to choose the gender of Aloi or the race of Nathan Drake or to play as Peter Parker vs Miles Morales vs Spider-Gwen in the Spidey game (though that last one would have been quite cool). I'm good with a mixture of choice, assigned race and/or gender/(species), and pretty much everything in between for games.

This is pretty much where I am. I think when I was much younger I might've sometimes made choices based on that but as I grew older and became less stupid it stopped mattering to me. On a side note, I bet if the Spidey game was made after Into the Spiderverse those options might have been available. I think that movie hugely raised awareness of those characters, arguably Spider-Gwen more than Miles because she was such a scene stealer.

Quote
Like I said, context matters a lot. I was in a lore argument here a few years ago over Space Marine when a couple of people were all like "why can't I be a female Space Marine for this videogame?" and the (very reasonable, I thought) answer was "thirty years of established lore from the game's licensor". Reply then was "they should just change it" (for this licenced game that will be forgotten in 2 years), to which I pretty much facepalmed. OTOH, GW should have changed it with the advent of the Primarins revamp a couple of years ago - a missed opportunity for sure there.

This is actually a reason Space Marines are such a huge turn off to me in games where they're available. They're barely even human and are all big brawny dudes. I just find them very meh as characters. Give me Imperial Guard over them anyday since they're, you know, actual people.


Quote
Star Wars has become progressive, and that's genuinely a good thing. I like Rey and Finn. The problem I have with Star Wars is that of the four new movies, one has been good (R1) one has been decent despite (or because of?) being a retread (TFA), one has been pretty bad but ok if ou have super-low expectations (Solo) and one was just fucking awful (TLJ). The issues there weren't because of the casting or the genders or races of the actors - just like Sam Jackson, Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman, Liam Neeson and even poor old Hayden Christiansen - all of whom are good to amazing actors - the issue is with the writing and directing - which includes the totally lame way that Padme went out. But as much as we old nerds love the OT, Lando and that Bespin security guard may as well have had "token" patches on their clothing, which amazingly was still better than what we saw in ANH.


Star Wars itself has. Some of the fanbase, not so much as we all know. Rey gets bitched about so damned much. I constantly have Yotube videos on my feed that are bitching about Rey or SJWs ruining Star Wars. I'm actually confused by it because I don't watch those kinds of videos so I don't understand why Youtube keeps popping them up to me.

Also, just for shits and giggles, my ranking of the Disney Era Star Wars movies.

The Force Awakens - The best of them. It's a retread but it was on purpose to show fans we were past the Prequel era of movies. And I genuinely like every single new main character. (Finn, Rey, Poe)
Solo - I didn't think I'd like this one but it won me over when I caught it on Netflix. I think it got screwed by its release being so soon after TLJ to be honest. That said, I'm glad it killed all the "Here are movies with backstories of characters because we can't think of a single new thing to do in this huge universe we have."
Rogue One - It has 45 minutes of awesome at the end. The rest of the movie is a drag and Jyn is a super boring protagonist who doesn't make any decisions until that last 45 minutes. She just sort of sleepwalks wherever Cassian drags her.
The Last Jedi - *sigh* It turned BB8 into a joke. Finn's plotline was a waste of time. The concept was good the execution was awful. The same applies to Poe's plotline. Rey's plotline...I actually liked. I even liked grumpy old man Luke who was lost in regrets and had turned his back on the galaxy. I liked the character of Rose but thought she was handled poorly. (The actress did a good job but the writing for Rose in general was bad.) Speaking of, I haven't seen her in any of the Rise of Skywalker trailers yet...
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 11:04:56 AM by Riggswolfe »

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Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 21431


Reply #110 on: September 04, 2019, 12:01:46 PM

On the other hand, shit like Ubi's piss-poor excuses for not having a female option for AC: Unity "animashuns are too hard for make at woman player" on the other hand, I'm not cool with.
To be fair, a woman skeleton is different to a male skeleton, so if you want to do it right you do have to make different animations.
Which is true if they have different skeletons. Or you can just share the same one like they almost certainly did with Odyssey -- i.e. the male and female models are extremely similar in size and I wouldn't be surprised if the underlying skeletons are identical or nearly so. Also makes modelling armor sets a lot easier.
Azazel
Contributor
Posts: 7714


Reply #111 on: September 04, 2019, 06:02:41 PM

On the other hand, shit like Ubi's piss-poor excuses for not having a female option for AC: Unity "animashuns are too hard for make at woman player" on the other hand, I'm not cool with.

To be fair, a woman skeleton is different to a male skeleton, so if you want to do it right you do have to make different animations. Japanese and Korean games are ctually very good at mocapping with the different Genders for their characters, so theres no reason why UBI couldn't have done it if they weren't lazy fucks and not spend a bit of extra cash. Or you could go the GTA 5 route and effectivly just add tits and a waist to the male model and call it a day. 95% of people woudn't notice or give a shite if they did.

Absolutely, but they did already have female NPCs, which would have had a few of the animations - not nearly as many as PCs, obviously - but it would have been the lazy/cheap answer. Or perhaps it was planned and dropped early becaiuse of crunch (did they say something like that? I forgot), since the released game was far from properly finished/QAed?

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Azazel
Contributor
Posts: 7714


Reply #112 on: September 04, 2019, 06:27:57 PM

This is pretty much where I am. I think when I was much younger I might've sometimes made choices based on that but as I grew older and became less stupid it stopped mattering to me. On a side note, I bet if the Spidey game was made after Into the Spiderverse those options might have been available. I think that movie hugely raised awareness of those characters, arguably Spider-Gwen more than Miles because she was such a scene stealer.

Agreed - I think when the inevitable sequel comes out for PS5, there's probably a good chance of some stuff like that being incorporated into it. Maybe even some kind of ..what was that game? Web of Shadows? Where you play as different Spideys through the game. I could see that happening.


Quote
This is actually a reason Space Marines are such a huge turn off to me in games where they're available. They're barely even human and are all big brawny dudes. I just find them very meh as characters. Give me Imperial Guard over them anyday since they're, you know, actual people.

They're fine in their own way. The issue with them as characters is that they're often portrayed as far more one-dimensional then they need to. Even back in the 1990s there were books where they had a lot more nuance added to them aside from "for the emprah!" and a few other catchphrases - and that's been expanded on so many times now across a fair few books that are actually, you know, decent. I mean, we don't get that in videogames because kil kil kil.


Quote
Star Wars itself has. Some of the fanbase, not so much as we all know. Rey gets bitched about so damned much. I constantly have Yotube videos on my feed that are bitching about Rey or SJWs ruining Star Wars. I'm actually confused by it because I don't watch those kinds of videos so I don't understand why Youtube keeps popping them up to me.

Yeah, well, we can't have blacks and girls in our whiteboi treehouse, after all. I do wonder though - if the new movies had been overall amazing or at least much better (think MCU level) quality rather than subpar if these toolbags would have gotten as much traction as they have. What's his name? The Quickening? Something like that. He keeps popping up in my feeds and I have to keep whackamoling him (after that first 5 or 10-min listen I gave him out of curiosity).


http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12627


Reply #113 on: September 05, 2019, 12:21:22 AM

Agreed - I think when the inevitable sequel comes out for PS5, there's probably a good chance of some stuff like that being incorporated into it. Maybe even some kind of ..what was that game? Web of Shadows? Where you play as different Spideys through the game. I could see that happening.

It was Shattered Dimentions, where you play Spidey, Ultimates Spidey, Spidey 2099 and Spidey Noir.

In Web of Shadows you fight Venom infecting an entire city with Symbiotes.

Sometimes irony is pretty ironic.
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