Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 20, 2019, 06:10:43 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
Donate! | Shop: Amazon
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: DOTA 2 Autochess, the Hearthstone killer 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: DOTA 2 Autochess, the Hearthstone killer  (Read 4598 times)
Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9548


Reply #35 on: March 18, 2019, 05:33:43 PM

Until (unless?) that's a thing I don't even see how this is a Hearthstone competitor.

Check out my podcast: ADD&D, Attention Deficit Dungeons & Dragons!
"I think it's time for a dose of F13 RED PILL MOTHER FUCKERS" ~cosapi
Azuredream
Terracotta Army
Posts: 903


Reply #36 on: May 21, 2019, 07:10:37 PM

Looks like they're officially doing it, although they couldn't come to an agreement with the original maker (who is making his own non-dota themed mobile version). I'll be very interested to see what they do with it, since I still play the mod occasionally.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10739

a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country


WWW
Reply #37 on: June 13, 2019, 06:21:52 PM

Here's the Valve actual version of it. Underlords. I don't like the cel-shading style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Mle4rbaog

Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9493


Reply #38 on: June 14, 2019, 11:03:47 AM

In case you didn't know, Riot is putting out their own version too.

Open beta for both I think starts next week. I personally love this genre right now. My old man twitch skills aren't required.
Johny Cee
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3378


Reply #39 on: June 16, 2019, 09:25:41 AM

Valve's "DOTA Underlords" is pre-Open Beta...  basically if you have a DOTA Battlepass you get access, going to Open Beta next week.  The interface is very Mobile friendly right now, so seems like they are definitely going for all platforms.
 Trump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJKJ7B06eFE
 Purge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn9t9QprFE8

Riot's Teamfight Tactics has no gameplay footage out yet, but there are a number of folks talking about playing it at Riot's HQ...  supposedly Open Beta later this month.

Drodo (original mod team) released a mobile version, and has an exclusive PC version to hit the Epic store some time soon.
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9493


Reply #40 on: June 16, 2019, 12:28:15 PM

I'm not a fan of the Drodo mobile art style.
Azuredream
Terracotta Army
Posts: 903


Reply #41 on: June 16, 2019, 01:13:26 PM

Same. Plus while all the units are the same mechanically I don't want to bother learning the different names/visuals. Underlords uses (mostly) the same units and has what looks to be a much better item system. Should be an easier transition from DAC.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Johny Cee
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3378


Reply #42 on: June 16, 2019, 02:32:12 PM

I've tried the mobile version of the Drodo version, but really tough on a phone.  The interface seemed really awkward if you are used to playing on PC...  tough to do the fast buys/subs/sells/swaps.  Haven't played much Autochess lately since I have a "no PC games while SigOther is home" policy combined with work being crazy and the dog being needy.


The massive fight to see who is going to win the genre this Summer sounds like it will provide some good entertainment value.  Valve vs Riot vs Epic vs whomever bribes the government best wins the China market.
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9493


Reply #43 on: June 17, 2019, 06:55:24 AM

Currently I think Valve is going to win because t hey seem to have the most "i get why this game is fun" sense. I've watched a few vids of the people talking about playing the Riot version. They seem to think the game is more of a "non serious fun party game". The chess board they use is like 3 rows deep.

If anything Valve will make Magic the Gathering and Riot will make Hearthstone.
Johny Cee
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3378


Reply #44 on: June 17, 2019, 12:55:06 PM

I feel dumb, but I just came to the realization that Blizzard is nowhere to be seen in this?  Especially because of the number of Hearthstone streamers that were sharing time or jumping ship to DAC.  Is this going to be another HotS situation where they are way too late to the party? 

It's a simple game to make, and Blizzard has a shit-ton of art/lore assets to use for it... crank something out.
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9493


Reply #45 on: June 17, 2019, 01:49:38 PM

Blizzard is slow. Valve and Riot essentially made their versions of the game in like 6 months or less.
Job601
Terracotta Army
Posts: 187


Reply #46 on: June 20, 2019, 09:35:48 PM

I tried the Valve mobile version today having never played autochess or the Riot version, and the fast development time really shows.  It lacks polish and doesn't communicate what's going on or how your decisions matter very clearly, doesn't have any tips to help you learn the systems, and doesn't hold your hand at all.  The tutorial explains about three things. I think I get it, but I've been playing games like this forever.  It's a hardcore experience that assumes its audience has been playing autochess or at least watching it on twitch.  It still feels like playing a Warcraft III mod in its mercilessness and lack of clarity.
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9493


Reply #47 on: June 21, 2019, 06:56:23 AM

It's a more polished version of the mod. The "newbie" experience surrounding it doesn't exist. It took me a day or two of playing a few games to get it.

You need to understand:

1) Each unit has two classifications (I forget what Valve's are called, but essentially Race and Class).
2) Collecting certain numbers of either Race or Class gives buffs like item sets.
3) Combined 3 like units makes it got from 1 star to 2 star. Three 2 stars makes a 3 star.
4) Build comps that win.

Each round you get to pick between 5 units to recruit to your army. You can reroll those 5 or "buy a new pack" for 2 gold. You can spend 5 gold to gain 4 xp towards your next level. Each level allows you to deploy another unit up to 10 total. Each round you get bonus gold for win/loss streaks. Every 10 gold nets you 1 extra gold per level up to 50 gold (5 extra gold per level).

That's it essentially.
Setanta
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1341


Reply #48 on: June 23, 2019, 01:43:56 AM

I've played both versions of the mobile game now and still have NFI what I'm doing. I'm about to do some research on it as I seem to do ok for the first 5-6 rounds and then get crushed

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Hoax
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7660

l33t kiddie


Reply #49 on: June 23, 2019, 08:38:47 AM

Well it took me 4 tries but now that I've beat the bots on challenging I'm sure I've mastered this enough to give advice.  why so serious?

I was having similar trouble with winning early rounds then losing at the end. I think the trap was I would fall in love with the early units that got me the win streak and instead of transitioning to those sweet higher tier units I would try to 3-star them. Don't do that.

Enigma, Lich, Tide, Medusa, Gyro etc. those units are bananas. You want to transition to those or you will lose to the bots that do.



Only Slardar and Slark had been on the squad since early rounds, which meant likewise that Scaled was the only synergy I used all game. QoP prob should have been but I was chasing SF for awhile and I'm always tempted by Doom. Also QoP was mediocre because my opponents were all running AM felt like I probably could have had a much better 3rd assassin. Veno was shit. I'm not sure he was worth it just for 15% lifesteal but I think he might have been.

Ok real advice, you get +1 interest for every 10 gold you have up to +5. So never ever have more than 50 gold. Do use your bench slots. Do not chase more than 1 3-star at a time (probably?). You can drag units onto the field past the cap for temporary storage space btwn rounds. Positioning positioning positioning, its probably important.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 02:18:26 PM by Trippy »

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9493


Reply #50 on: June 24, 2019, 01:53:10 AM

You have to get a feel of what units are powerful when. The way to win is how to transition from early to mid to late game. Some comps really suck. Like 6 warlocks is stupid.
Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 14459

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #51 on: June 25, 2019, 04:00:16 PM

I'm pretty terrible at this. Playing on my phone.

I do OK early. Do OK mid. Then the end comes, and I fall apart. Also, I'm always poor. First time experiencing this type of game in any form.

-Rasix
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9493


Reply #52 on: June 26, 2019, 01:42:43 AM

Stop rerolling so much and build an economy. Don't force a build, let it come to you.
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7671


Reply #53 on: June 26, 2019, 02:04:07 AM

Which is the version you are all playing?

Expect poison from the standing water.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 40446

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #54 on: June 26, 2019, 11:02:16 AM

I tried Dota Underlords last night. I do not fucking understand this game, nor do I understand why it's popular. It made almost no fucking sense to me and I couldn't figure out what the fuck was happening or why I was getting ROFLstomped.

Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9493


Reply #55 on: June 26, 2019, 03:24:00 PM

Takes a few games and I'd suggest watching a few people on Youtube if you're really interested. Amaz or Slashspit on Youtube.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 40446

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #56 on: June 27, 2019, 08:54:30 AM

I watched a tutorial video and it all became much clearer. Holy shit, is this a dense, completely incomprehensible mess without that sort of initiation. I realize there's a tutorial and I think it should probably be mandatory before being allowed to play, otherwise it's just inscrutably thick and unintuitive. However, I did find myself enjoying it. It's got a very deckbuilder feel to it, only without the prebuilt deck so there's much more randomness to it.

Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10739

a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country


WWW
Reply #57 on: June 27, 2019, 11:15:40 AM

While I agree with you Haemish, this is another case where what "would be the best idea" ends up being completely irrelevant considering how much popularity the whole thing (the whole three games) got and how quickly. I am with you in the sense that I can't understand the game and it did not trigger anything for me to want to understand more. But I don't know if a tutorial would have made things better, maybe the fact that nothing hooked me right away means that tutorials only matter if something intangible is already pulling you in, while on the other hand the total lack of help and the absolute obscurity are not a hurdle when something (visuals? interface? sounds? hype) clicks with a player before even understanding the game.

Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9248


WWW
Reply #58 on: June 27, 2019, 02:06:25 PM

I watched a tutorial video and it all became much clearer. Holy shit, is this a dense, completely incomprehensible mess without that sort of initiation. I realize there's a tutorial and I think it should probably be mandatory before being allowed to play, otherwise it's just inscrutably thick and unintuitive. However, I did find myself enjoying it. It's got a very deckbuilder feel to it, only without the prebuilt deck so there's much more randomness to it.

It is a spin-off of DOTA2 which “dense and incomprehensible to start” is pretty much a given.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Jeff Kelly
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5937

I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #59 on: June 28, 2019, 05:36:35 AM

Yeah but this by and large makes it into DOTA - the collectible miniature game.

Meaning that it has become intensely popular in a very small, dedicated bubble of ultra hard core people. People who have no problem with the arcane rules, rough presentation and the fact that you need three wikis, Twitch and a few professional youtubers plus several sunreddits to make sense of it all.

Also means that outside of that small bubble no one has even heard of it.

I get it, because I'm the same when it comes to Kerbal Space Program but if they're not Hearthstoning this thing all 3 games will be on the same level as DOTA or League. On the other hand though heroes of the storm never took off so maybe it needs to be dense and incomprehensible.

If I had to redesign it (armchair gamer)

- the race/class synergies and the effects need to be much more prominently displayed and need much better explanations. My reference for this is actually the way Slay the spire does it. Better textual representation. Hot Links with information for every effect better On-Screen representation of the effects and synergies
- Tutorial mode against AI
- Game mode without time limits or with a much more relaxed time limit, potentially just vs. AI. Game is hard to learn because you're always against the 30 second time limit. Keep the time limit for network but remove/relax it for learning the game.
- the movement patterns of the monsters are barely explained. This needs to be much clearer because it can affect placement and effectiveness late game. Ideally display it on the board for selected pieces (like Into the Breach)
- maybe lose the chess-like placement of pieces completely? The mechanic is only tangentially usefull in the late game when you have only one or two opponents left. It also degenerates into a "who can rearrange their pieces faster until the timer runs out" tug of war.


HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 40446

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #60 on: June 28, 2019, 09:02:55 AM

DOTA Underlords actually has a non-timer mode - you just have to check the box under "Pause" mode when you create the game. I don't know if this is applicable to non-bot/AI games though. In-game tooltips and explanation of why some shit is doing what it's doing would be boffo. I don't think it'll be a very big hit because it is super autistic. I'm actually kind of surprised the mod was successful enough to force both Valve and Riot into making their own versions, but I'm guessing the game itself is so fucking easy to program that it was one of those "get Kyle to program this shit over the weekend."

Jeff Kelly
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5937

I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #61 on: June 28, 2019, 10:16:49 AM

It is a huge streaming game.

I like watching it get played much more than playing it myself as well.

Riot and Valve probably looking more into the e sports potential of it.
Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10739

a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country


WWW
Reply #62 on: June 28, 2019, 03:02:53 PM

I am pretty sure they took the two people left working on the Artifact redesign and relaunch to make this. Gabe Newell kind of confirmed this yesterday in the Valve Index presentation speech.

Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9493


Reply #63 on: June 29, 2019, 02:04:17 AM

Underlords mobile is probably the best mobile game I've played. It's essentially the desktop game with all of the trappings. 
Hoax
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7660

l33t kiddie


Reply #64 on: July 13, 2019, 02:27:13 PM

TFT despite being amateur hour in presentation and with some horrible balance stuff (ALSO YOU SHOULDNT LOSE HP FOR LOSING IN PVE) that needs to be worked out is way fucking better than Underlords.

#1 the item system is way more impactful and better.

#2 it feels more random, which is sort of the idea of this genre

#3 the overall balance is atrocious but the hero to hero balance seems to be much better executed. Yasuo is like the only just throw this guy on any lineup hero I can think of. Underlords felt worse on that front by a lot to me.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 21431


Reply #65 on: July 13, 2019, 02:40:17 PM

Twitch viewership would agree. TFT is about an order of magnitude more popular than Underlords right now.
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9493


Reply #66 on: July 13, 2019, 03:21:34 PM

This is true, but I like Underlords better. I played some TFT and I just didn't like the package. That mostly has to do with not know any of the alliances or what's going on. TFT item system is better though.

I'm not sure if i'm indifferent or don't like the board layout (hex vs squares).
Azuredream
Terracotta Army
Posts: 903


Reply #67 on: July 14, 2019, 04:04:39 AM

I can't stand the item system in TFT. If you don't get enough items (or the correct items) you might as well just quit. The game isn't about who can build up good unit levels and synergies it's about who throws the perfect combination of 3 items on a Draven/Asol/Vayne/whatever. Or whoever abuses the 6 sorcerer locket stacking/luden's bullshit. Your unit comp is so irrelevant in comparison to how you use the items you get. It's got a lot of depth in who uses what items the best but it still just feels so ridiculously unfun losing because you got less items. I want to win because my team has good synergy and positioning, not because I have some uber hypercarry that everyone else is just there to buff/protect.

It is much faster paced which I much prefer. You take a lot more damage and the creeps are much more threatening. Lose streaking to 50g is an extreme high risk strategy. There's a lot more early rolling than Underlords which is just a snoozefest for the first 20 rounds. If they sped up the pace of the game by making summons do damage or just upping damage from surviving units in general I think Underlords would be much more fun.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9248


WWW
Reply #68 on: July 14, 2019, 07:12:23 AM

Twitch viewership would agree. TFT is about an order of magnitude more popular than Underlords right now.


I would bet a fair amount of money that the people who play each game are mostly people familiar with the source game. And LoL has an order of magnitude more twitch viewers than DOTA2.

Hell, I would bet the vast majority of TFT players never even heard of "auto chess" before Riot did their launch.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 21431


Reply #69 on: July 14, 2019, 09:49:55 AM

Twitch viewership would agree. TFT is about an order of magnitude more popular than Underlords right now.
I would bet a fair amount of money that the people who play each game are mostly people familiar with the source game. And LoL has an order of magnitude more twitch viewers than DOTA2.
No, it doesn’t.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: DOTA 2 Autochess, the Hearthstone killer  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC