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Author Topic: Root  (Read 16903 times)
Bunk
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on: October 15, 2018, 01:19:24 PM

Why not start a topic...

Root: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/237182/root

Tried this at SHUX (Shut up and sitdown's con) this weekend, since it was in the home town.
Interesting game to say the least. Play one of four clans battling for control of the forest: Cats, Mice, Birds, Raccoon.
Gain points by achieving goals, obtaining territory, that sort of thing. First to 30 points wins.

The catch: every clan plays 100% differently. The cats start covering the board and play like a standard territorial wargame. The birds do this bizarre Robo-Rally-esc preplanning of their turns, and their government collapses if you don't follow the plan. The Raccoon is a single figure that runs around the board "buying" from other players and getting points for doing so, while also gaining more actions as he does. He has to complete various quest cards for extra points it seems. Then finally the Woodland Alliance (mice) that I managed to win with. They get limited troops, but build up sympathy tokens around the board - other players removing them or sending troops through have to give you cards, which you then turn in to more sympathy.

Quite complex, interesting replayability built in because of how the clans play, really good cute art ascetic to the game.

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Goldenmean
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Reply #1 on: October 15, 2018, 01:43:17 PM

Yeah, it's a great game. If you pay much attention to board gaming, I'm sure you've already heard the buzz, but it's well deserved. Definitely one of my top games this year. Good luck finding a copy if you weren't a kickstarter backer though.

I'm really loving what Leder games is doing with highly asymmetric games. I liked their previous game, Vast, but it was almost entirely impenetrable. In Root the factions are all incredibly different, but at least they're playing within the same framework. They all move the same way, attack the same way, and interact with the same deck. In Vast, every faction was playing a completely different game. They just happened to be interacting on the same board. There was basically no way to know what was going on until you had played with every faction, and most people aren't willing to put up with that sort of learning curve.
eldaec
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Reply #2 on: October 16, 2018, 12:03:12 AM

Has anyone tried the co-op variant in the expansion?

I want to like this but suspect it looks more interesting to learn than to play at full tilt. I could imagine enjoying it more as a co-op puzzle to solve though.

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Goldenmean
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Reply #3 on: October 16, 2018, 08:50:18 AM

No, haven't tried the Mechanical Marquis in either of its modes. I can see using it as an AI player at some point, but I'm not itching to turn Root into a co-op game despite really enjoying co-op games. It *might* be interesting. I can see the fact that all human players need to meet their victory conditions for the team to win as a whole making for some interesting puzzle-ish behavior, but that doesn't really feel like what Root is about.

FWIW, I'm generally of the opinion that games are at their most interesting when I'm still learning to play them and tend to move on quickly, but Root definitely has some staying power even once you've learned a faction. I've played almost every faction at this point, a few multiple times, and it hasn't lost its luster yet. Like any conflict heavy multiplayer game with unfettered aggression, victory is probably more about table politics than anything else, but there's still lots of space for interesting play.
Samwise
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Reply #4 on: October 16, 2018, 09:21:26 AM

On the one hand, I own too many board games I already don't play.

On the other hand, this sounds really fucking cool.

(edit) I bought it.  Being under two hours long and not requiring more than two people gives pretty good odds that I'll actually be able to play it a few times.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 12:32:52 PM by Samwise »

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Goldenmean
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Reply #5 on: October 17, 2018, 01:29:46 PM

At 2 players, some matchups are going to be pretty weird. Cats. vs. birds is about the only 2 player matchup that feels really natural in my head. Can't imagine vagabond v. alliance working well at all. I imagine the other combos would work, but might be a bit unbalanced in one direction or another. You'll probably want to play sets of 2 games where you swap factions after the first game and add your scores from both games together.

If you end up liking it, I'd definitely recommend you pick up the expansion, just to get the Mechanical Marquis AI player option. Then you can play pseudo-3P games, and some of the matchups will feel a lot less bizarre.
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Reply #6 on: November 05, 2018, 12:23:10 PM

Have played a couple of cat v bird games with the girlfriend.  I like the mechanics so far, but I have an unfair advantage in having grown up playing strategy games.  If the other matchups are less balanced that might actually be a good thing.  (The game manual suggests cat vs alliance, bird vs alliance, and bird vs vagabond as other 2-person matchups, but warns that things will be tough for the alliance/vagabond player.)

The Mechanical Marquise option definitely sounds interesting -- so you can either have it as a 3rd player in a FFA mode, or you can have a co-op game against it?

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Goldenmean
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Reply #7 on: November 05, 2018, 01:47:08 PM

Yep, it works both as an AI player in the normal game or as a buffed up opponent turning the game into a cooperative. I haven't had any cause to try either of those modes, but it seems like it would work well enough having read through the rules for it.

It's worth noting that if you're thinking about the expansion and play almost exclusively 2 player, that one of the two new factions is only going to work if you're playing with a mechanical marquise. The riverfolk are capitalist war profiteers. They're all about selling things to both sides of a conflict and aren't viable in a head to head game. The lizards should work head to head against either the cats or birds pretty effortlessly, with other 2P combos working as well, albeit oddly.
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Reply #8 on: November 05, 2018, 01:59:33 PM

The expansion adds a second vagabond -- does a vagabond vs vagabond deathmatch work?   DRILLING AND MANLINESS

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Goldenmean
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Reply #9 on: November 05, 2018, 02:33:53 PM

Vagabond on vagabond would be a weird game. Not having warriors or structures to kill or other factions to aid removes a lot of the moving parts of the vagabond. It would basically just come down to completing quests, occasionally crafting your own items, and beating down the other vagabond whenever they got close. My gut instinct is that it would feel pretty random and largely come down to who got more useful stuff out of ruins first, or good combos of quests, but I've never tried any player combo with two vagabonds in the mix, so who knows.

Vagabond vs. vagabond vs. mechanical marquise should work though.
Samwise
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Reply #10 on: November 07, 2018, 11:13:44 AM

Okay, you (and the "dev diary" I read on the AI player feature) convinced me.  It's out of stock but I put in a preorder for when they ship more next month.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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Reply #11 on: November 07, 2018, 12:09:43 PM

Okay, you (and the "dev diary" I read on the AI player feature) convinced me.  It's out of stock but I put in a preorder for when they ship more next month.
just wait for the new kickstarter?
Goldenmean
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Reply #12 on: November 07, 2018, 02:50:15 PM

just wait for the new kickstarter?

New kickstarter is going to be for a third printing. Stuff that should be showing up early in 2019 from preorders now will be second printing, and Leder Games don't tend to do exclusives of note or deep discounts with their kickstarters. There's really nothing to be gained by waiting.
Salamok
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Reply #13 on: November 08, 2018, 11:33:28 PM

just wait for the new kickstarter?

New kickstarter is going to be for a third printing. Stuff that should be showing up early in 2019 from preorders now will be second printing, and Leder Games don't tend to do exclusives of note or deep discounts with their kickstarters. There's really nothing to be gained by waiting.

Preordered on Amazon not long ago and they say it should be here in December.
Goldenmean
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Reply #14 on: November 09, 2018, 01:34:24 AM

Preordered on Amazon not long ago and they say it should be here in December.

Amazon is pretty clueless about board game release dates. I'd trust the publisher on this one. Looks like they haven't updated their Availability FAQ recently, but they're guesstimating January.

"Second Printing
The factory has started working on 30,000 Root games and 15,000 expansions.
WE ESTIMATE that it will be done printing in mid to late October and will take until early December to mid-January to get to depots. Go back and read that again. WE ESTIMATE. We will divide up the lot based on our distributor orders and ship it around the world. The majority of the second printing will go into distribution. Distribution will take time to get to retail stores. I would expect retail sales to start in January."
Samwise
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Reply #15 on: November 09, 2018, 08:45:59 AM

If you buy direct from their site, the estimate they give is mid-December, but that's because they're shipping it straight to you rather than waiting for stores to stock their shelves.  I'd guess that if you buy from Amazon it's the same deal.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Goldenmean
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Reply #16 on: November 09, 2018, 11:11:02 AM

Oh, is Leder Games directly on amazon? When I did a search it was just showing other retailers using amazon as their store front. If that's the case, then yeah, December seems plausible.
Samwise
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Reply #17 on: November 26, 2018, 01:32:32 PM

Have tried all the suggested two-player matchups in the base game now.  They're all better-balanced than I would have guessed; we usually finish within a couple of points of each other.

I'm guessing that cats vs vagabond would end up being too hard for the vagabond (since cats can just beat on the vagabond with impunity), and that mice vs vagabond ends up being too hard for the mice (since him not being a warrior neutralizes the mice's main territory control mechanic).

Very curious now to try mice + vagabond vs the AI.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Salamok
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Reply #18 on: December 27, 2018, 09:57:05 PM

Amazon order I placed a month ago was cancelled today.
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Reply #19 on: December 28, 2018, 02:51:26 AM

I got mine just before Christmas.  The AI has two modes, "competitive" which is meant to be balanced like a human player in a free-for-all and "co-op" which is much more difficult and meant to be balanced against multiple human players (it constantly spawns warriors across the entire board).  Haven't won a game against the co-op version yet.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
luckton
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Reply #20 on: March 14, 2019, 02:57:40 AM

Kickstarter for the 2nd Expansion launches today. Two new factions, updates and patches to previous factions, possibly some new AI boards for the other factions beyond the cats, and a big box/organizer for everything are expected to be available.

Gonna jump on this when it goes today.

Edit: Now live! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2074786394/root-the-underworld-expansion/description
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 08:25:23 AM by luckton »

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
luckton
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Reply #21 on: April 01, 2019, 04:16:17 PM

27 hours left to go as of this post. They added some dank neoprene playmats of the two game boards (both original and the new Underworld) for purchase if interested.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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Reply #22 on: April 01, 2019, 04:50:02 PM

Ended up getting the expansion, better bots, upgrade, and both mats. Thickness on the mats is over the top but whatever.
luckton
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Reply #23 on: April 01, 2019, 05:01:50 PM

I started with nothing. I went All In plus the Better Bots. Looking forward to a great Christmas  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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Reply #24 on: April 02, 2019, 06:36:52 AM

Hah.
eldaec
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Reply #25 on: February 26, 2021, 12:03:35 PM

Back on kickstarter with two more factions, more bot factions, and some weird 'hireling' things that players can bid to take control of.

Hirelings evolved from minor factions. I liked the idea of minor factions adding neutral board presence to low reach or low player count setups. I'm not sure if I like them in this form.

The new factions look cool though.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
schild
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Reply #26 on: February 26, 2021, 12:59:13 PM

Hirelings seem like a COLOSSAL improvement that makes COINs a 2 player-playable genre. Like this puts to be a lot of issues with the overall design and Cole is proving for like the 10th time he's nothing less than a genius. Like pretty easily in the top 10 working game designers out there.

Shame it seems like Patrick is fucking with his mojo on Oath.
eldaec
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Reply #27 on: February 26, 2021, 03:12:32 PM

I think I need to play with Hirelings on TTS or something. They seem aimed at a different issue to what I expected minor factions to do and I'm struggling to figure out what they'd do to a game.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
ghost
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Reply #28 on: March 01, 2021, 09:12:44 AM

Shame it seems like Patrick is fucking with his mojo on Oath.

How so?
schild
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Reply #29 on: March 01, 2021, 10:54:45 AM

Shame it seems like Patrick is fucking with his mojo on Oath.

How so?

People in 2 of the 6 discords I'm in who have been playing it have said it ain't getting better. I'm sure it'll end up fine but at some point Patrick has to accept he's objectively the worst of the partnership.
ghost
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Reply #30 on: March 01, 2021, 11:02:08 AM

Ah.  Yeah, when you get a really bright, talented guy like Wehrle showing you up, it probably stings a little bit.  I'm still excited to play it, when I get it.  I'm sure it will still be better than 90% of the garbage out there. 
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Reply #31 on: March 01, 2021, 11:02:30 AM

100% agreed.
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