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Author Topic: Soccer 2018 - 2019  (Read 603 times)
Shannow
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on: July 17, 2018, 08:53:45 AM

We are like, what, a week away from the EPL season starting?

I'd just like to ask, wtf is Chelsea thinking? I mean , by all means, go ahead and blow up the team that won a title 2 years ago but wtf?

Can anyone stop City this year?

Wil Kante still be on Chelsea by close of the next window? Will Hazard and Courtouis?

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Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 10:51:44 AM

Chelsea's biggest problem is their executives apparently cannot stay on good terms with a manager. Oh and they also hire managers who are prickly geniuses who get really upset at slights and start acting like an asshole to the players, media and everyone around them. And I say that as someone who really like Conte (but yes, he can be a prickly asshole genius - he's just more likable than Mourinho). Letting Cante, Hazard, Courtois or Willian go would be madness but that seems to be the Chelsea way these days. I don't expect they will rise to the top 4 this year but at least they probably won't have to worry about Arsenal overtaking them either.

Liverpool's whole season could revolve around whether they get a decent goalkeeper. Rumors about Allison keep dying down then heating up so hopefully they aren't going to cheap out this time. They still need to worry about depth everywhere but they are looking much better with Shaqiri, Fabinho and Keita in.

Man. U. are only going to go as far as Mourinho will let them and I don't see him pulling his head out of his ass long enough to produce the kind of offensive displays that will overtake City. It's just not in his DNA no matter how many top attacking players you give him. City, OTOH, are due for a dip in form because they appear to have spent so much money that they can't really add much without being expected to overpay (see Jorginho going to Chelsea instead of City). Barring a crazy spate of injuries and their defense completely collapsing, I don't see much hope that anyone will challenge them.

Spurs are still Spurs, and are operating under the "tighten your belt" phase of a new stadium. Arsenal may have Unai Emery but I don't see this team gelling well enough to challenge for top 4 based on the quality above them.

01101010
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Reply #2 on: July 17, 2018, 11:15:54 AM

Off-topic question: wife and I are debating whether to start following soccer a bit more than watching highlights. What TV channels would be needed to start watching or recording matches?

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HaemishM
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Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 11:49:46 AM

If you want the English Premier League, you need NBC Sports Network (NBCSN). They offer a streaming package for $50 a season but it won't have all the games - about 230 games will be on TV while the rest will be on their streaming service (NBCSN Gold). For La Liga (Spain) and I think Serie A (Italy), you need BeinSportsTV. For Bundesliga (German), you need Fox Sports 1 and Fox Sports 2 and/or Fox Soccer Plus. They also have some kind of streaming service but I'm not sure what's on it. ESPN+ is their new streaming service and it has English Championship games (the tier below the Premier League). GolTV has something but I'm not sure what - I think some of the South American leagues. MLS (American) matches are on Fox and ESPN.

Shannow
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Reply #4 on: July 17, 2018, 02:01:50 PM

EPL is probably the best and easiest to follow (more teams with an actual chance vs other European leagues which are 1-2 teams shows at best - IM LOOKING AT YOU BUNDESLIGA). NBC Sports has good coverage and is usually in most basic cable packages if you are going that route. Don't support Chelsea, no one will like you.  why so serious?

If you do go the EPL route I also suggest listening to the Men In Blazers podcast and taking in their weekly TV show. It's a hoot.

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #5 on: July 17, 2018, 02:32:39 PM

Hey I don’t know what you complain about. There have been years where Bayern didn’t win.  Be grateful  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
01101010
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Reply #6 on: July 17, 2018, 02:38:24 PM

If you want the English Premier League, you need NBC Sports Network (NBCSN). They offer a streaming package for $50 a season but it won't have all the games - about 230 games will be on TV while the rest will be on their streaming service (NBCSN Gold). For La Liga (Spain) and I think Serie A (Italy), you need BeinSportsTV. For Bundesliga (German), you need Fox Sports 1 and Fox Sports 2 and/or Fox Soccer Plus. They also have some kind of streaming service but I'm not sure what's on it. ESPN+ is their new streaming service and it has English Championship games (the tier below the Premier League). GolTV has something but I'm not sure what - I think some of the South American leagues. MLS (American) matches are on Fox and ESPN.

Splendid. Thanks for that.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

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Shannow
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Reply #7 on: July 17, 2018, 02:41:17 PM

What's actually broken in the last 7 years ? Bayern just has TOO much money or other clubs not spending enough?

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Reply #8 on: July 17, 2018, 03:04:28 PM

I think it's mostly that Bayern has made a habit of buying up all the best German players, including from the teams that have been their biggest rivals for the title. They bought Gotze and Lewandowski in back to back years from Dortmund (who was I think the last non-Bayern team to win the Bundesliga), and when I first started watching in 2006-2007 season, they bought Miroslav Klose from Werder Bremen (who finished 2nd the season before Klose left). They don't spend Barca/Real Madrid/Man U/Man City money on foreign players, but they still spend more than their rivals.

Shannow
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Reply #9 on: July 17, 2018, 03:13:01 PM

Yeah but I guess they could've done that for years, also doesn't the Bundesliga have a rule about amount of non-German players that can be on one team?


In regards to your comment about City buying ppl let's note they just spent $60mil on Mahrez, one does have to ask where the fuck is he going to play?

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Reply #10 on: July 17, 2018, 05:01:01 PM

Exactly. I'm a big fan of Mahrez but that's WAY too much money to pay for him, especially considering he's not likely to displace Sterling or de Bruyne or David Silva (maybe him because of his age but that'll depend on form and health) in the regular starting XI. But knowing that Man City's owners are rich as fuck, teams will charge over the odds for anyone that goes there. Napoli tried to do that with Jorginho and City pulled out because Chelsea was willing to pay more than they were.

I think all the leagues have some restrictions on foreign players though I don't know if the Bundesliga is more restrictive than others. 

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Reply #11 on: July 17, 2018, 06:03:18 PM

Weird: Usain Bolt may be signing with the worst team in Australia's A-League, the Central Coast Mariners.

In the A-League's defence, this is how the last season ended.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #12 on: July 18, 2018, 05:58:55 AM

Bayern have been exceptionally smart investors and buyers/sellers and they have an exceptional youth programme.
There's practically nothing Bayern does that couldn't be replicated by most other Bundesliga teams.

Germany's 50+1 rule prevents investors from taking over a majority stake of any Bundesliga club. This rule was put in place to prevent rich investors from taking over one club as a "hobby" and then outspending the competition into oblivion like it happened in Spain, England, or France. Everyone was scared that some oligarch would be able to buy a Bundesliga club and then pump 800 million into it to turn it into the next Chelsea or Man City only for them to bail a few years later and leaving the club in shambles. The corollary to this is that the money Bayern is able to spend on players has to come from TV rights, merchandising, smart investments, smart player purchases/sales or they have to recruit players from their youth academies/programs.

Bayern is managing its money very well and Höneß in particular has a knack for clever investments. Bayern usually manages to have a net profit on player purchases/sales and they bring up a lot of really strong players from their youth teams or their own academy. Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Müller, Hummels, Alaba, Kroos, Wagner, Can, Badstuber, the list goes on. All of those players have either been brought up from Bayern Münchens own youth academy or have been part of bayern München's youth teams (U15, U19 etc.) and came up though those.

Bayern also have a very good talent scouting department. They got James Rodriguez on loan for 13 million from Real Madrid for example, Robben for 30 million and Ribery for 25 million, Boateng for 12.5 million, Lewandowsky for free and Neuer for 30 million.

Bayern are acting very smart - most of the time (I still don't understand why they let Kroos go to Real Madrid) - and have been for more than three decades. The rest comes from success drawing in more talent, because who wouldn't want to work for the most successful team.

There's nothing in Bayern's success though that couldn't also be copied by Dortmund, Schalke or other top tier Bundesliga clubs.

The main difference between Bayern and them is stability - the Bayern management team has been largely the same for the last twenty years - and business savy.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #13 on: July 18, 2018, 06:10:54 AM

I think all the leagues have some restrictions on foreign players though I don't know if the Bundesliga is more restrictive than others. 

European clubs can't put any restrictions on the number of foreign players they hire at least as far as citizens of EU member states are concerned. See Bosman decision in 1995.

The main reason why Bundesliga teams don't hire as many marquee foreigners is budget. The DFL's 50+1 rule precludes outside investors from acquiring a majority stake in any club. This means that no German club has an Abramovic stand-in that would be able to field the massive amounts of money for top players. That's why you'll probably never see a German club being able or willing to buy someone like Cristiano Ronaldo for 350 million. Draxler, Tolisso, Marztinez and Vidal have been the most expensive transfers so far and they all cost in the range of 45 million.
HaemishM
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Reply #14 on: July 18, 2018, 09:30:53 AM

I know that English clubs do have a minimum number of spots on the roster that must be from "home-grown" players. Those players don't necessarily have to be English but they must have trained at the club for a certain number of years if they aren't. Barca and La Liga teams do have a restriction on the number of non-EU roster spots, but that can be got around - for instance, there's talk that Coutinho (who currently does count as one of 3 non-EU spots) will come off that list because his wife is Portuguese so he'll be considered an EU player with some kind of paperwork.

As for Bayern's success being emulated by other German clubs, good luck. Dortmund could have been that under Klopp (and were) but once he left, they decided to get into Barca/Real Madrid style pissing matches with their coaches, and are now on their 4th coach in 3 seasons.

Shannow
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Reply #15 on: July 18, 2018, 10:35:43 AM

Jeff,

I'm just going to say that your piece reads like a fan piece about how 'my team is just smaaaaartah than yours, its nothing to do with the money!'. Yankees fans take note. Pats fan probably too (though revenue isn't the issue there it's having the best coach/QB/owner combo in NFL history)

Looking at this chart revenue is absolutely a difference maker and no the other Bundesliga teams COULDN'T just replicate what Bayern is doing. Why didn't Borussia just keep Goetze, Lewandoski, Hummels then?

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #16 on: July 18, 2018, 01:41:57 PM

The reason why Bayern has so much money comes from the fact that they have been more consistent and stable and yes smarter than their competition.

For example: after their very successful run at the end of the nineties, where they even won the UEFA Champions League, Dortmund overextended itself so much that they nearly went bankrupt. They very nearly got relegated to the second division in 2000, three years after they had won the CL. By 2002 they had wasted most of their money on expensive but useless players, on a whole slew of business ventures that all failed and expensive projects like an extension to their stadium. In 2004 they had accrued about 100 Million Euro of debt. They subsequently had to sell most of their players to stay afloat, sold and re-leased their stadium to generate additional cash on short notice and the Dortmund board of directors summarily resigned/was fired.

It took Dortmund nearly a decade to recover from that.

Also while Schalke has probably an even better youth program than Bayern, and also the more wealthy title sponsor (Gazprom) they tend to favor stupid business decisions. In 2006 Schalke had a whopping 226 Million Euro of debt and prominent members of the club allegedly took on private loans to stave off bankruptcy, which led to the resignation of president Assauer.

In the same time frame Bayern didn’t have any financial issues or sweeping changes in management.

Yet both Dortmund and Schalke are in the top 20 of the most financial successful clubs in the world (revenue) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League

Dortmund at 12th place is in front of Athletico Madrid, Inter or Olympique Lyon and has a budget on par with Juventus or Liverpool.

1899 Hoffenheim is sponsored by SAP and funded by billionaire Dietmar Hopp, one of the SAP founders, VFL Wolfsburg is literally owned by VW. Red Bull RasenBallsport Leipzig‘s main sponsor and 99% owner is Red Bull and Dietrich Mateschitz.

There is literally nothing Bayern does that couldn’t be replicated by the top five of the German Bundesliga at least. It’s just that Bayern has been much more savvy and consistent over the last two decades and didn’t piss their money away on stupid shit.
Amarr HM
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Reply #17 on: July 19, 2018, 08:59:40 AM

Off-topic question: wife and I are debating whether to start following soccer a bit more than watching highlights. What TV channels would be needed to start watching or recording matches?

I sometimes watch the games on nefarious streams of US channels and I really dig it when Alexei Lalas is co-commentating. Has a good insight and untouched from the bias and dumbing down of British media punditry, think he's on FOX?

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Reply #18 on: July 19, 2018, 09:45:34 AM

I cannot fucking stand Lalas. He is smug and often reeks of "in my day"-ism.

Sir T
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Reply #19 on: July 19, 2018, 09:52:59 AM

Just think about how bad the British Media Pundits are then.

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Shannow
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Reply #20 on: July 19, 2018, 10:10:40 AM

I cannot fucking stand Lalas. He is smug and often reeks of "in my day"-ism.

This. Lalas is the worst. Fox's commentary at the WC was fucking terrible.

Someone liked something? Who the fuzzy fuck was this heretic? You don't come to this website and enjoy something. Fuck that. ~ The Walrus
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Reply #21 on: July 19, 2018, 10:20:33 AM

I didn't watch any of the World Cup studio stuff (the shows and halftime) but I thought their broadcast teams were decent. Tony Meola was ear cancer, Martino was ok. Ian Darke and Aly Wagner were the best, IMO, but I'm partial to a British voice for watching football anyway.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #22 on: July 19, 2018, 11:09:42 AM

Even though they've yet to offer their services in the US I'd recommend checking out DAZN (www.dazn.com). The parent company of DAZN is very aggressively purchasing sports rights and they want to become the "Netflix of sports". They are currently operating in Germany, Austria, Switzerland,  Japan, Canada and Italy and they offer Premier League, La Liga, Seria A, Ligue 1 and Bundesliga. This might not be an option for the US at the moment but they are continuously expanding their sports rights portfolio and target markets.
HaemishM
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Reply #23 on: July 19, 2018, 11:21:36 AM

Looks like the US version is only about "fight sports."

Amarr HM
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Reply #24 on: July 19, 2018, 12:44:53 PM

I cannot fucking stand Lalas. He is smug and often reeks of "in my day"-ism.

That's literally every ex-pro commentator ever though. I think the reason I like him is that he considers his points to some degree, which is rare, and I find his post analysis of a half to be generally spot on.

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Amarr HM
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Reply #25 on: July 19, 2018, 12:46:18 PM

Just think about how bad the British Media Pundits are then.

You can lump the Irish ones in there too, Brian Kerr is like nails on a chalkboard.

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Sir T
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Reply #26 on: July 19, 2018, 12:57:25 PM

Urgh. Don't remind me...

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WayAbvPar
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Reply #27 on: July 19, 2018, 03:29:34 PM

I didn't watch any of the World Cup studio stuff (the shows and halftime) but I thought their broadcast teams were decent. Tony Meola was ear cancer, Martino was ok. Ian Darke and Aly Wagner were the best, IMO, but I'm partial to a British voice for watching football anyway.

It was actually Derek Rae with Aly Wagner. He could barely hide his erection when things went south for England  Rofl Waffle

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Gimfain
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Reply #28 on: July 19, 2018, 08:38:11 PM

Liverpool just bought alisson becker on a record transfer for goalkeepers.

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Reply #29 on: July 19, 2018, 09:40:31 PM

Thank fuck for that.  awesome, for real

ghost
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Reply #30 on: July 23, 2018, 12:14:18 AM

Pulisic is an animal.  Damn he's good. 
HaemishM
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Reply #31 on: July 23, 2018, 01:17:36 AM

Yeah, he's really good. He needs to stay consistent and hit the goals more but given how badly Dortmund collapsed as a team last year, I can see why he wasn't. Liverpool looked totally gassed when they gave up the goals which is understandable. Even if they hadn't landed the day before, Charlotte in the summer is hot as fuck. I'm sure most of those players are not used to those kinds of temps.

Shannow
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Reply #32 on: July 31, 2018, 07:24:45 PM

Bayern Munich pays up to $22 million for Alphonso Davies from the Vancouver Whitecaps. Vancouver will share part of the fee with an Edmonton youth club going against US MLS clubs SOP but how the rest of the soccer clubs in the world do. Oh Canada!

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Reply #33 on: August 02, 2018, 03:44:18 PM

It was a sad but happy day for us in Vancouver. He's a Canadian citizen and only 17 years old, so at least we'll still have him on the national team (they have to let the host country play in the World Cup, don't they?!)

He's still playing for Vancouver for the rest of the season. His first game after the transfer - he went out and scored two goals and two assists.

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Shannow
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Reply #34 on: August 03, 2018, 08:18:25 AM

I saw footage of one goal he scored with a ridonkulous move at the top of the box, looked like someting outa FIFA18.

Yes Canada will play in World Cup '26. Mind you aren't they expanding the field to 48 teams in 2022? (bad idea but hey's those cat apartments don't pay for themselves I guess)

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