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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - From Software 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - From Software  (Read 50634 times)
Falconeer
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Reply #70 on: March 27, 2019, 04:59:26 AM

It is so fucking hard.

Falconeer
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Reply #71 on: March 27, 2019, 07:19:33 AM

For some reason the game is a lot of fun. As usual (isn't that true for every game though?), not for everyone. This is so hard and counter intuitive that I have experienced levels of frustration that I have never felt in the *Souls and Bloodborne, but at the same time very rewarding when you finally clear a section or kill a specific enemy, and generally speaking when the combat starts to slowly flow out of your fingers. It took me more than 15 hours to begin to feel that I have a bit more control over it, and I have honestly thought about giving up because fuck it who has that amount of time? But it is certainly fun when you get the hang of it. It is as someone else said a "rhythm game" at times, requiring perfect timing and precision, and also a bit of a puzzle game, whereas you have to figure out the battlefield and choose how to attack in a way not so different from XCom, but it is rewarding and especially when you get good better with the sword slaying enemies even only to grind money is satisfying and addictive.

Ironwood
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Reply #72 on: March 28, 2019, 08:21:17 AM

Okay, so the guy I was watching has now done a 'proper' walkthrough where it's pretty quickly demonstrated that gearing and levelling correctly for the bosses turns it into a rather more interesting affair.  It's looks boring as fuck watching someone chib a horse for 50 minutes but slightly more interesting when the use firecrackers and set it on fire in 2 minutes.

Still considering purchase.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Falconeer
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Reply #73 on: March 29, 2019, 06:52:40 AM

I am not even gonna mention what piece of shit website published this article, which I won't even link, but here's the title: "Sekiro: Shadows Dies Twice' Needs To Respect Its Players And Add An Easy Mode".

My eyes are rolling so fast I can hear them breaking.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #74 on: March 29, 2019, 08:17:00 AM

I don't know what's more tired. People demanding that FromSoftware adds a difficulty setting to their games or people who treat this suggestion as if it was some form of blasphemy.

There is a reasonably argument to make why even a game like Sekiro should have difficulty settings and it's also reasonable for FromSoftware to not add them
Falconeer
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Reply #75 on: March 29, 2019, 08:23:54 AM

The use of the word "respect" in that article pisses me off.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #76 on: March 29, 2019, 08:33:29 AM

We don’t need to argue about that bullshit Forbes article. That article is bullshit.

It's arrogant and entitled.
Sky
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Reply #77 on: March 29, 2019, 09:06:27 AM

It's pretty wild that Forbes has become the new nadir in games journalism.

And yeah, as someone who doesn't dig the 'l2p' stuff (purely from a time angle, I like it a lot in theory if I had more hours in the day): I just avoid the games because I understand they're Not For Me. Entitled cunts.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #78 on: March 29, 2019, 09:37:28 AM

The best argument for adaptive difficulty or difficulty levels I've seen so far came from a developer.

They argued that what you want is that all of your players have the same experience playing but that not everyone has the same capabilities or skill and not everyone has the potential to get to a level of capabilities or skill required for a game with fixed difficulty.
What is easy for the "get gud" crowd might be hard for other people and what is hard for the "get gud" crowd might be impossible. They might be too inexperienced, they might have disabilities, they might be too old etc. You could reasonably make a consistent argument why even games like Dark Souls, Bloodborne or Sekiro should have adaptive difficulty because that would give everyone the same experience even if they are of different skill levels or capabilities and could potentially broaden the appeal (and number of sales) and let more people experience your game.

I'd be extremely happy because I'm no longer 12 or a professional Twitch streamer and speedrunner and I'm slowly ageing out of twitch games. There will be a point that is not too ar off where I'll no longer be able to finish games like Sekiro even if I wanted to. Heck, Tetris 99 showed me that I'm too old even for Tetris.

It's the prerogative and artistic choice of the developer though. It's perfectly fine for a developer to decide against that feature because of the artistic vision they have for the game or even for profane reasons like the additional effort different difficulty settings would require in development and testing. I may not like it but that is my own problem. Not everything has to be for me and demanding otherwise would be arrogant and entitled.

I'm not publishing a fucking ridiculous article on Forbes.com though. Whoever decided that games need difficulty settings as a sign of "respect" for a certain type of entitled asshole needs to be slapped.
Rendakor
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Reply #79 on: March 29, 2019, 10:42:16 AM

It's pretty wild that Forbes has become the new nadir in games journalism.

And yeah, as someone who doesn't dig the 'l2p' stuff (purely from a time angle, I like it a lot in theory if I had more hours in the day): I just avoid the games because I understand they're Not For Me. Entitled cunts.
Agreed. I'd like them if they had easier difficulties (or if I hit the lottery), but I'm not going to be an asshole about it.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Trippy
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Reply #80 on: March 29, 2019, 11:09:47 AM

The best argument for adaptive difficulty or difficulty levels I've seen so far came from a developer.

They argued that what you want is that all of your players have the same experience playing but that not everyone has the same capabilities or skill and not everyone has the potential to get to a level of capabilities or skill required for a game with fixed difficulty.
What is easy for the "get gud" crowd might be hard for other people and what is hard for the "get gud" crowd might be impossible. They might be too inexperienced, they might have disabilities, they might be too old etc. You could reasonably make a consistent argument why even games like Dark Souls, Bloodborne or Sekiro should have adaptive difficulty because that would give everyone the same experience even if they are of different skill levels or capabilities and could potentially broaden the appeal (and number of sales) and let more people experience your game.
The problem with this argument as it applies to the Soulsborne series is that the difficulty *is* the game. It's not like, say, The Last of Us, where a lot of people played on the easiest difficulty cause they just wanted to experience the story and had issues dealing with the clunky combat and unforgiving stealth mechanics. Without the difficult bosses in the Soulsborne games there's no other major aspect of the game to enjoy as the story and characters in the games are almost non-existent*. It would be like taking the classic Resident Evil games and putting in a mode with unlimited ammo and items, unlimited saves anywhere, and non-shitty controls. A game with all that stuff is no longer a (classic) Resident Evil game.

* Yes I know there's a crap-ton of lore in these games but you have to be a diehard to read through all the text and shit and try to piece things together yourself
Falconeer
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Reply #81 on: March 29, 2019, 12:43:57 PM

A little bit on topic, and a little bit on the game in general. I am on the record (my posts from a few days ago) saying that even though I am From Software biggest fan and I have finished each and every single Soulsborne so far and thought that every single one of them deserved Game of the Year, I was afraid that Sekiro was indeed too hard for my reflexes and eye-hand coordination in 2019, at 45 years of age.
Well, 20 hours of /played later the game combat system finally clicked with me and I have... gitten gud (?).

What I am trying to say here is that while it is undeniable that this game is hard because it is, and also because it doesn't lend itself to a lot of the cheese strategies that could be used in the previous games to activate various kinds of "easy mode", if you don't give up things will start to come together and before you know you are better and everything feels easier. This could seem obvious but it wasn't for me a few days ago as I really started to feel defeated. After hitting a wall for 15 hours straight (for real) though, I somehow got over it and all of a sudden everything made so much more sense. All fights are easier, all mechanics are less obscure than they were, death isn't as scary as the Dragonrot warnings make you think, and overall the game is a lot more fun. I have not finished it and I am still being slapped left and right, but I am not lost anymore.

Up to a couple days ago I couldn't help but think that they fucked up and raised the bar too much for my age and genetics, but now I know that no they didn't, they once again crafted an insanely good game (Of The Year) that does not demand to be played, but while traversing a beautiful, desperate, gloomy world, once again offers everybody a chance to train and become better at video games.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #82 on: March 29, 2019, 01:40:48 PM

I’m not at that point, hopefully it is yet and not ever
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Reply #83 on: March 29, 2019, 04:15:26 PM

I definitely felt that "oh fuck I'm finally too old and this is too frustrating" and gave up playing just 2 hours in, but came back recently and something clicked like it did for Falconeer.

My mind was cemented in Soulsyness combat since it feels similar (which it really isn't fundamentally). There's the combat dummy dude at the beginning who I skipped because I'm not some kinda fuckin' noob listen here but

he teaches you through practical zombie murder the entire combat system, which is pretty fun in the way For Honor is a slightly more accessible fighting game kinda sorta-ish

Even the ping-ping-ping-ping-PING multiple sword blocks which sound and feel frenetic are actually fairly evenly paced in execution. The timing windows seem a lot more forgiving than Souls games so again those assumptions fucked me up--same with being scared I was going to be poise broken or some shit while deflecting, which isn't the same as blocking and aaaaRTFM

After eating humble pie and doing all the available training scenarios I beat the shit out of 4-5 mini bosses (still with a fair amount of death) and progressed way faster than if I'd just kept bashing my head against things. Those took way less time than 100 Lady Butterfly attempts.

The whole point of these games is the Nintento Hard challenge making the exploration worth it and setting up an emotional impact beyond a power fantasy gimme, so fuck that freelancer's opinion.

Nobody's forced to buy these games and the skill requirement isn't some sky-high bullshit like he seems to think it is. It's like the core fucking feature of the entire lineup. If he wants to pay money for a totally frustration-free experience he can hoover up a pile of drugs and masturbate on his no-barrier-to-entry ultrasuede sofa.

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Ironwood
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Reply #84 on: March 30, 2019, 12:46:14 PM

This is actually fun as fuck.

Who knew.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #85 on: March 30, 2019, 01:12:27 PM

hook shotting around the place while murdering dudes is fun, yes.
Ironwood
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Reply #86 on: March 30, 2019, 01:23:30 PM

Well, yes, but I meant the combat, which looked boring when viewing.  Entirely different animal playing.  Fun.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #87 on: March 30, 2019, 05:21:23 PM

The game seriously has its hooks in me.

I’ve not gotten very far yet but since I’ve realized that Sekiro let’s you cancel out of attack animations to deflect I’ve been much more successful.

You can be really aggressive because you can always block or deflect and you can actually GTFO if things get too heated.

Mikiri Counter is absolutely essential. Made the Shinobi hunter much easier.

Also fuck the Ogres.
Ironwood
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Reply #88 on: March 31, 2019, 03:47:09 AM

I'm up to the Flaming Ram.  Fuck that guy.

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Falconeer
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Reply #89 on: March 31, 2019, 05:15:17 AM

The flaming bull? That so far has been the easiest for me to kill. Hardest definitely the drunken mini-boss but I suppose that's mostly a combination of me still being a noob and all the surrounding mobs somewhat behaving unexpectedly.

Ironwood
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Reply #90 on: March 31, 2019, 06:19:55 AM

Got him. Also, that mini-boss just past him.  I'm getting some lessons from Fighting Cowboy (my go-to for Souls games) and I'm finding the tips invaluable.


The bull really needed me running around while at the same time keeping the damage on and bear in mind I'm old.  The past 24 hours has really hurt my hands.  More so than my constant masturbation habit.   why so serious?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Cyrrex
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Reply #91 on: March 31, 2019, 11:03:23 PM

So my son finished up on Friday, and now I am giving it a go.  At first, I was like "this is some really cool ninja stuff, but it is too sloppy and hard and I would probably rather be playing a Souls game".

But after giving it a fair shake and getting my head around the controls, I have to say this is pretty fucking awesome.  It really is Technu Souls, or something like that.  Best of two worlds.

But!  It is really fucking hard.  I have only managed around 4 mini bosses, and already starting to worry if I have the chops for this.  I have decided to devote some time grinding skill points and just getting better at combat.  My fingers are all stiff as I type this out, jesus christ.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #92 on: April 01, 2019, 12:20:29 AM

I’d recommend to everyone to not watch boss fight videos or streams.

It’s the best way to discourage yourself. Some fights look absolutely impossible to me
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #93 on: April 01, 2019, 06:09:02 AM

The strategic decisions of my enemies are highly questionable.

Ironwood
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Reply #94 on: April 01, 2019, 08:15:58 AM

I’d recommend to everyone to not watch boss fight videos or streams.

It’s the best way to discourage yourself. Some fights look absolutely impossible to me

I'm going to go ahead and disagree here.  The Blue Chap at the top of the castle in the Dojo was pushing my shit in regularly.  After watching how FC took him down (and he did it in literally 20 seconds) I took the advice and tried it.  It was a glorious 60 seconds of pure ownage.

Sometimes, if you've been bashing your fucking head off a fight for ages, it's useful to hear that there's either another method or, even better, that you're just NOT READY and shouldn't be there.  In the fight above, the poison dagger you get for your Prosthetic made it trivial.

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Falconeer
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Reply #95 on: April 01, 2019, 09:16:34 AM

To me it's a tough balancing act between "I am not gonna cheat and look how others cheese beat it, I can figure it out myself...", and "Oh for fuck's sake how the hell is this even possible?! Let me look if others have even beaten this yet". I don't peek until I am desperate and in danger of damaging furniture.

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #96 on: April 01, 2019, 09:51:35 AM

Watching others for me sometimes turns into „how the fuck would I ever be able to do that“ which is more discouraging than interesting
Ironwood
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Reply #97 on: April 01, 2019, 03:29:35 PM

Finally, finally beat that butterfly BITCH.

What a fight.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Falconeer
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Reply #98 on: April 01, 2019, 03:45:56 PM

I adored that dance.

Big Gulp
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Reply #99 on: April 02, 2019, 12:06:18 PM

It is so fucking hard.

Life is short, and I want to finish this.  I'm using a trainer and I have no guilt about it.  I like the setting, I like ninjas, and I like arterial spray.  I DON'T like getting my dick stomped on like some masochist.
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #100 on: April 02, 2019, 12:52:44 PM

Fuck grab attacks that insta kill you when you mistime the dodge because the combat system trains you to deflect/block and you forget that button even exists.
Ironwood
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Reply #101 on: April 02, 2019, 01:34:10 PM

Seven Spears has a cheese strat that made him literally trivial.  The scorpion chap also has one.  I got up another level of beads by cheesing bosses and I don't feel bad about it all because some of them you just can't and it's work and, goddamn it, beating them EARNS me some cheese.

Up to Genchiro.  We'll see how that goes.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #102 on: April 02, 2019, 01:52:50 PM

Genichiro is peak anime
Jeff Kelly
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Reply #103 on: April 03, 2019, 01:13:54 AM

I swear this game is the most trolling From Software ever did.
Ironwood
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Reply #104 on: April 03, 2019, 03:51:34 AM

I agree.  Can't stop playing it though.

And you were right about Genichero.  Not only that, he just butchered me without thought.  I couldn't even get one of his lives down, never mind stage two.

Brutal.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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