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Author Topic: The GDPR and You  (Read 1884 times)
NowhereMan
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Reply #35 on: May 31, 2018, 05:01:33 AM

Shittalking aside, where does Britain fall in all this with Brexit?

Serious talk? The UK has been presented the options of:

1) Falling exactly in line with EU data laws with no say in how they are formulated or what gets included or
2) Losing all automatic data sharing and UK companies and organisations having to go through a full separate accreditation/inspections process from a European institution.

I mean it's not exactly surprising, we're no longer members of the EU and the suggestion that we should just get to keep a voice in the councils formulating these laws because it would be beneficial to the UK and it was continuing the status quo was pure 'doesn't ask doesn't get so might as well try' from the civil servants at the ICO and reality denying idiocy from the politicians who are now outraged about it. So the UK is almost certainly going to be beholden to actual foreign laws crafted by European bureaucrats without the interests of the UK considered instead of before where they just said they were.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Ironwood
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Reply #36 on: June 01, 2018, 05:49:35 AM

Who do you work for again, Ironwood?


I'm a Cloud Architect for a Microsoft Gold Partner in the UK.  It's truly exciting.  Somedays I can barely help myself from contemplating the sweet release of death.

So are you technically stll even a European?  awesome, for real

Shittalking aside, where does Britain fall in all this with Brexit?

Oddly, I'm a full Italian Citizen now also.  So everything is really, really odd for me.  I also can't wait to get the fuck out of here to Australia or Canada or Barsoom Mars.

In terms of Brexit, we have to obey unless we don't want to, in which case we set ourselves on fire.  Again.  NowhereMan kinda covered it.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Yegolev
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Reply #37 on: June 01, 2018, 02:14:19 PM

I do wonder where the line is between a phone book and unreasonable use and distribution of your personal information though. It's there somewhere, but how do you define it?

I know it when I see it.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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NowhereMan
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Reply #38 on: June 02, 2018, 07:18:08 AM

The GDPR is fairly clear: If you give up your information to someone as part of purchasing a product or service, is that use of the information something you'd reasonably expect to be part of delivering that service/product? Has that usage been made clear to you? Can you easily find out? If it's not required for delivery of the product or service, have you been informed and given consent?

Signing up for the phone company and having your number listed publicly, pre-internet, made sense as part of your phone service since otherwise people generally weren't able to contact you. People were certainly aware that their number would be published. If you're handing over information to get a driver's licence you expect that information to be shared with other governmental bodies for purposes of checking ID or issuing fines, etc. Giving your data to a washing machine manufacturer to sell you shit is not necessary for you to drive or use your licence as ID. That's a pretty fucking clear difference.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
calapine
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Reply #39 on: June 20, 2018, 12:34:08 PM

LOL at this industry propaganda cartoon:





"Marketoonist is the thought bubble of Tom Fishburne, a veteran marketer and cartoonist."


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Ironwood
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Reply #40 on: June 20, 2018, 12:37:52 PM

Yeah, that's one of those 'Said No-One Ever' type deals.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
HaemishM
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Reply #41 on: June 20, 2018, 02:59:22 PM

As a marketing person, I'm absolutely convinced that very very few shoppers really give a shit about a personalized shopping experience that requires giving up as much data as the marketing people want.

Paelos
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Reply #42 on: June 20, 2018, 03:03:49 PM

As a marketing person, I'm absolutely convinced that very very few shoppers really give a shit about a personalized shopping experience that requires giving up as much data as the marketing people want.

You should be because nobody gives a shit online about a personalized shopping experience. That's why we have the ability to search products we want instead of having a bunch of shit we don't want crowd our search engines.

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HaemishM
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Reply #43 on: June 20, 2018, 03:07:01 PM

What they mean by "personalized shopping experience" is actually "we will fill your screen with every add-on purchase we can think of, plus definitely some you don't give a flying fuck about" and "Oh yes, we will also pester you endlessly in emails about products we want to sell you that tangentially someone else with your profile bought five years ago."

Phildo
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Reply #44 on: June 20, 2018, 04:07:27 PM

"Also, we remember that one time you looked up a funny review on Amazon and now *niche product* is all we're ever going to show you."
Rendakor
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Reply #45 on: June 20, 2018, 06:25:32 PM

I bet we're at the point where people are willing to pay for a non-personalized shopping experience.

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schild
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Reply #46 on: June 20, 2018, 06:31:34 PM

Algorithms will never replace hand-curated experiences - and by never I mean within our lifetime.

One day it won't matter because we'll either all be dead, as a species, or it'll be a socialist utopia.
Yegolev
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Reply #47 on: June 20, 2018, 10:12:07 PM

Humans have been the same for many thousands of years and will continue to be so, despite the trappings we dress ourselves in.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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NowhereMan
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Reply #48 on: June 23, 2018, 04:05:43 AM

Very, very occasionally Amazon's personalised shopping experience is a positive. Usually it's a nice shortcut suggesting some product I need to buy semi-regularly through it that is front and centre.

Most of the time though it's alternate choices for shit I've already bought and no longer have a need for. Or crappy accessories for things I've bought. The 'frequently bought together' type suggestions are good and Amazon's automated comparison feature is good. The targeted marketing stuff has never been something I've really liked or that has (directly) caused me to make a purchase.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
MahrinSkel
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Reply #49 on: June 23, 2018, 09:05:38 AM

Very, very occasionally Amazon's personalised shopping experience is a positive. Usually it's a nice shortcut suggesting some product I need to buy semi-regularly through it that is front and centre.

Most of the time though it's alternate choices for shit I've already bought and no longer have a need for. Or crappy accessories for things I've bought. The 'frequently bought together' type suggestions are good and Amazon's automated comparison feature is good. The targeted marketing stuff has never been something I've really liked or that has (directly) caused me to make a purchase.
Ditto. The "Also Bought" or the "Bought after viewing this" are good for finding accessories or cheaper equivalents, but the front page recommendations are uniformly useless.

--Dave

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schild
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Reply #50 on: June 23, 2018, 10:29:25 AM

literally never look at what's on the frontpage
MahrinSkel
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Reply #51 on: June 23, 2018, 12:16:16 PM

literally never look at what's on the frontpage
I wouldn't through the web page, but I mostly use the tablet version of the app (I have the security for the web version set so tight it's a PITA to actually use), so it's constantly reverting to the front page stuff. Which is generally a mix of things I looked at and didn't buy, or different versions of the things I just ordered.

--Dave

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calapine
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Reply #52 on: July 05, 2018, 11:45:08 AM

Uff we just digitally dogged a bullet (or dodged a digital bullet?).

The proposed re-vamp of the EU copyright legislation was just defeated in the EU parliament. The basic goal seems sensible - modernize and harmonize - but two parts of it, Article 11 and Article 13, drew a lot of ire.




The finer details of copyright are really something I am not well versed in, so maybe a resident expert can chime in? *puppy eyes*

So with the disclaimer to the best of my understanding, the contentions issues are:

Article 11 ("link tax")

Member States shall provide publishers of press publications established in a Member State
with the rights provided for in Article 2 and Article 3(2) of Directive 2001/29/EC for the
online use of their press publications by information society service providers.


This would include short summaries or teasers of an article, as for example in the search results. My interpretation is that is an attempt of "classic media" to be able to cash in services like Google News. At least this was the drift when Germany introduced a similar law some years ago. Edit: Also confirmiing that is who is on which side on the battle here. Google: AGAINST. Major local content providers: FOR.

Article 13 "Outlaw memes"

Member States shall provide that an online content sharing service provider performs an act
of communication to the public or an act of making available to the public when it gives the
public access to copyright protected works or other protected subject matter uploaded by its
users.
An online content sharing service provider shall obtain an authorisation from the rightholders
referred to in Article 3(1) and (2) of Directive 2001/29/EC in order to communicate or make
available to the public works or other subject matter.


So instead of having to take uploaded content down when the author/copyright-holder complains this now requires to hoster to check on the point of upload. Since that would be far too much to do manually this would result into automated "upload filters".The fear here is that they would (likely) be overly broad and block copyrighted material in cases their uses is allowed - for example a private person using it in a non-profit way. >> Memes

My impression is that the public debate over this was overy hyperbolic, which makes it hard to form an opinion, but basic criticism is well founded. So good that this didn't go through.

Secondly it's interesting the "EU Council" (air quotes because there is the European Council and the Council of the European Union and they work in the same building but are not quite the same and it's complicated...Edit: See 2 posts down)) which represents the member states voted and approved this exact text as their so called "negotiation position". (A bit like you have a Senate and House version of a bill and then they need to agree...?...I think?) Anyways, this confirms a trend I noticed, in which the parliamentarians are more in tune with interests of the common citizen than to their national governments, despite belonging to the same party.

I think the reason for this is, that for example here with copyright, the lobbying power of big cooperate publishers like the German Springer are much bigger in Berlin than they are in Brussels. Second is that the grip of parties over their parliamentarians to exert"party discipline" in voting is stronger on their national MPs than those sitting in Brussels. This might be a happy situation that doesn't last, but for the moment I take it gladly.

Edit: This doesn't mean the Directive, which consists of 24 articles not just the hot button 11 & 13, is totally dead of course. But it's going back to legal drawing board.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 12:19:46 PM by calapine »

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calapine
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Reply #53 on: July 05, 2018, 11:53:44 AM

Also for the lulz, I love the spin the British Express puts on this. They are that tabloid that HATES the EU and LOVES capitalisation:




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calapine
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Reply #54 on: July 05, 2018, 01:14:32 PM

To clear up that European Council vs Council of the European Union (and all their presidents) once and for all and so I have something to link to later:

Both have in common that they represent the members states ie. national governments. That being said:

European Council

Meeting of the head of governments. May + Macron + Merkel + 25 others.

Normally meets every 6 months in Brussels to decide the "big agenda" issue and sort of set up a task list for the Commision (which handles the day-to-day stuff).

Also meets extraordinary on a) special events or b) when the Council of the European Union (=ministers) feels an issue is above their pay-grade and passes the buck to their bosses.

Examples of Extraordinary: 2014-Sanctions on Russia, 2015-Refugee crisis, 2017-Brexit. The Greece-debt meetings would also fall in that category, but those were Euro-meetings. Meaning only with those governments that use Euro.

Decisions are generally made in consensus. To the degree that aren't most of the time actually any formal votes held because talking happens until everyone is "sort of" happy. Making that happen is the job of the President of the Council (currently: Donald Tusk, previously head-of-government of Poland, "our Donald") which usually sits down with member states before the actual meetings, stakes out out positions and so. Most drastic example of this was the Greece-Debt-Euro meeting, which went all night and was dead-locked, until Tusk announced a break, then took Merkel and Tsipras aside for a 6-eye meeting and (if press lore is to believed) said "we don't leave here until we have agreement")

 (Anecdote: Because he is not from their party the current polish PiS-ers hate him so much they tried to block his second term because they rather have a non-pole president then a party-opponent. Ohhhhh, I see. Got overvoted 27 to 1 though.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?)


Council of the European Union

First thing: It's not 1 council, but 10 of them.  swamp poop Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? ACK!

It (they?) consist of the national ministers for a specific agenda. Example: "Economic and Financial Affairs Council" has all the national finance ministers in it. "Justice and Home Affairs Council" has all the national Justice ministers. Each council "version" meets every three months. (So in total lot of meetings).

Except: The 3 really important ones meet every month: General Affairs Council, Economic and Financial Affairs Council and, most important, Agriculture and Fisheries Council. (Farmers stronk!)

The Council of the European Union also has it own (of course!)  president. Except it's not a president, but presidency, because it's held not by person but by government. Which government that is rotates every 6 months. Since last Sunday this the Glorious Federal Republic of Austria.

The Council of the European Union meets in Brussels. Except (you didn't think it was that easy, no?) in April, June and October, when it meets in Luxembourg.

Question: So when I said in the previous post "The Council" agreed on the Copyright Reform text, which of the two was it?



« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 01:36:56 PM by calapine »

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Polysorbate80
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Reply #55 on: July 05, 2018, 01:58:07 PM

I'm not certain whether following European politics requires me to drink a lot more, or a lot less....
Chimpy
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Reply #56 on: July 05, 2018, 03:16:47 PM

We just received a single sheet of paper via FedEx from IBM which outlines their GDPR compliance.  why so serious?

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Yegolev
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Reply #57 on: July 09, 2018, 04:48:58 PM

Lucky you!  I had to take a class. Ohhhhh, I see.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
calapine
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Reply #58 on: August 06, 2018, 06:05:00 PM

Wallstreet Journal:



Quote
The social-media giant has asked large U.S. banks to share detailed financial information about their customers, including card transactions and checking-account balances, as part of an effort to offer new services to users.

As part of the proposed deals, Facebook asked banks for information about where its users are shopping with their debit and credit cards outside of purchases they make using Facebook Messenger, the people said.


Good idea, bad idea? Discuss!




Just kidding.... Fucking Facebook.  ACK!

Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic!
Yegolev
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Reply #59 on: August 06, 2018, 07:44:51 PM

Nice, just avoiding FB is no longer an option.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Ironwood
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Reply #60 on: August 07, 2018, 08:17:08 AM

How is that shit legal ?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Chimpy
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Reply #61 on: August 07, 2018, 09:11:52 AM

How is that shit legal ?


In the US, even if it was illegal (and very little that corporations do now is considered illegal) the consequences are minimal.

The risks are all very low and the (monetary) rewards ar sky high.

Peak capitalism baby, woo!

(Yes I know the question was rhetorical)

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Teleku
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Reply #62 on: August 07, 2018, 10:50:26 AM

Well, I mean, as long as they put it in the terms of service you agree to......   why so serious?

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