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Author Topic: Star Wars Episode IX  (Read 1352 times)
Sky
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on: September 17, 2017, 08:51:59 AM

I know everyone here will be ecstatic to hear JJA is back in the driver's seat for Ep IX!

https://www.sideshowtoy.com/blog/star-wars-episode-ix-j-j-abrams-to-write-and-direct/

BobtheSomething
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Reply #1 on: September 17, 2017, 09:34:53 AM

Star Wars Into Darkness!


What the franchise really needed was another terrible trilogy.
Threash
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Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 07:32:24 PM

Shrug, he's done fine so far.

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Sir T
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Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 07:38:26 PM

If you mean "Thank god, it was better than Lucas" well, ok...

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Nebu
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Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 08:09:25 PM

Lens flare or Jar jar binks.  Pick one.

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Riggswolfe
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Reply #5 on: September 18, 2017, 11:28:42 PM

Star Wars Into Darkness!


What the franchise really needed was another terrible trilogy.

In fairness, Into Darkness was written by Damon Lindledof and JJ Abrams made no secret of not being a big Trek fanboy.

I think he'll do fine with Episode 9 if they can figure out what to do about Leah being dead. The Force Awakens is in my top 3 Star Wars movies, warts and all. Why? Pretty simple. No Ewoks. No blind man accidentally killing Boba Fett. It therefore squeaks by Jedi which has, sadly, only really got the Luke and Vader arc to recommend it these days along with the Sarlac Pit fight. (Jedi is really where you can see Lucas starting to lose his grip on good film making. A trend the prequels continued and Crystal Skull cemented.)

Or, to put it even simpler: JJ Abrams is vastly preferable to Collin Treverrow.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
BobtheSomething
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Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 11:53:09 PM

What has Treverrow done that's so much worse than Super 8 or STID? 

And I'm surprised at all the TFA love.  It was a weak film for all the reasons that STID was weak, and as self-indulgent and empty as a later Peter Jackson film.  Just like STID, the more I think about TFA, the more reasons I find to dislike it, all of which come down to the direction or the writing.  I have zero faith in JJ Abrams.

Also, I found RotJ's biggest weakness, beyond ewoks, was the handling of the characters.  TFA does no better.
Sky
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Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 11:55:51 PM

I rank TFA 4th, just slightly above Jedi for exactly what Riggs outlines. The ewok thing just sucked the life out of the movie, and I cringed when it came out. (I rank 4,5 and Rogue One better than TFA).

So I'm ok with this one. I wouldn't mind the overt nostalgia being dialed back a lot, but the dude still made a Star Wars movie, which hadn't happened since the early 80s.

Into Darkness is also the best Star Trek movie  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 12:02:24 AM

What has Treverrow done that's so much worse than Super 8 or STID? 

Jurassic World.

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BobtheSomething
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Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 12:10:50 AM

What has Treverrow done that's so much worse than Super 8 or STID? 

Jurassic World.

I...forgot that existed.  Still, I'd rather watch that twice than STID once.  Or neither, really.
Mandella
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Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 10:11:35 AM

Just going to weigh in with some Abrams love. Well, maybe not love, but like. Well he's all right. Sometimes.

He does some things really well, and the things he does not that good are still okay.

So I'm okay with it.
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Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 10:57:23 AM

I've got no problems with his direction. I've got a few with his writing, BUT I think with some oversight you can avoid the solid 'memberberry pie. We'll see how Episode 8 goes.

Kennedy's the one in charge and setting direction and tone for the Franchise. The team did great with Rogue One, despite some jarring continuity problems it created. EP7 was a complete apology to the older fan base and attempt to get things back on track for the bitchy old men... who continue to bitch.  Hopefully Lucasfilm have said fuck-it and just focus on expanding the world.

Everything so far is still better than the prequels and THOSE have a strong, strong fanbase among the 20 and early 30-somethings.

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Ironwood
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Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 11:05:52 AM

Continuity problems ?

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HaemishM
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Reply #13 on: September 19, 2017, 11:44:49 AM

Abrams will be fine on Ep IX, so long as they keep Lindeloff away, which I'm sure isn't a problem. Abrams worst movies have still been watchable - Into Darkness and Super 8 were both watchable, even if ID was fucking awful if you took 2 seconds to think about it at all.

Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #14 on: September 19, 2017, 12:37:05 PM

Abrams is a lot like Lucas in that he needs to just shoot the movie and have little creative control over the writing and story.  As a pure behind the camera director, Abrams is one of the best out there, he just needs to be kept away from anything resembling a pen.

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Reply #15 on: September 19, 2017, 12:41:53 PM

Continuity problems ?

1) R2 and 3po were at the base when the fleet left and when the fighters scrambled to catch-up. Leia was nowhere in sight, yet the Tantive IV was on the Admiral's ship at the end. Wasn't she going after Obi Wan? Why suddenly head to Scarif?

2) In ANH Vader states they had received a coded, directed transmission, not a physical hand-off.  After LITERALLY seeing the Tantive IV escape he makes no mention of this to Leia or Antilles who act as if they'd just been cruising along in space on a diplomatic mission. Everyone goes along with this (now) bullshit story instead of Vader calling the bluff by saying, "No, I saw this ship flee."  

3) Why the sudden, abrupt change of stance on maintaining secrecy. Vader tells Krennic that Jeddah will be announced as a mining disaster but less than a few days later Tarkin blows-up Alderaan as a demonstration of force.

4) Some fuckery to minor things like: Wedge being flight control so he doesn't see the Death Star before ANH, Mon Mothma being around for this movie but absent in ANH a short week or two later.  Why does Vader slaughter everyone solo, but then send Stormies in first an hour or two later.

So yeah, small things in the big picture and far less fucked than some Trek continuity problems. Still there, though.

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Riggswolfe
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Reply #16 on: September 19, 2017, 01:01:54 PM

What has Treverrow done that's so much worse than Super 8 or STID?  

And I'm surprised at all the TFA love.  It was a weak film for all the reasons that STID was weak, and as self-indulgent and empty as a later Peter Jackson film.  Just like STID, the more I think about TFA, the more reasons I find to dislike it, all of which come down to the direction or the writing.  I have zero faith in JJ Abrams.

Also, I found RotJ's biggest weakness, beyond ewoks, was the handling of the characters.  TFA does no better.

That Henry movie is supposedly what did him in. Uhh...The Book of Henry? I haven't seen it but everything I've read makes it sound pretty damn bad. Jurassic World was fun but still...outrunning a trex in high heels almost made me give myself a concussion from face palming too hard.

I utterly disagree with you about TFA. It was nothing like ID which was extremely heavy handed audience service with no understanding of the source material and why WOK is still a beloved Trek movie. TFA, on the other hand, was a purposeful attempt to win back the older fans and it mostly succeeded barring a few who were like "Eww...icky, a girl in the lead? SJWFEMINAZICHILDHOODRUINED!!!!"

I enjoyed Luke and Vader in Jedi. In hindsight and doing a recent rewatch (as in last Friday while putting together my super expensive Lego Falcon) Harrison Ford is so clearly going through the motions. Also, Han comes across as an insecure jealous dick for most of the Endor parts of the movie. In contrast, in TFA he actually appears to be having fun and felt more like ANH/Empire Han than he did in Jedi. Luke and Leah are basically side characters so it's impossible to comment on.

Continuity problems ?

1) R2 and 3po were at the base when the fleet left and when the fighters scrambled to catch-up. Leia was nowhere in sight, yet the Tantive IV was on the Admiral's ship at the end. Wasn't she going after Obi Wan? Why suddenly head to Scarif?

This isn't real clear in the movie but they basically boarded the Tantive IV and docked with the Admiral's ship because, they had hopes of getting the plans and Obi Wan back to Alderaan ASAP. It wasn't a brilliant plan but the Rebellion never seems to be about strong strategies.

Quote
2) In ANH Vader states they had received a coded, directed transmission, not a physical hand-off.  After LITERALLY seeing the Tantive IV escape he makes no mention of this to Leia or Antilles who act as if they'd just been cruising along in space on a diplomatic mission. Everyone goes along with this (now) bullshit story instead of Vader calling the bluff by saying, "No, I saw this ship flee."  

They did receive the transmission? That's what the entire Scariff scene is about? Yes, it was beamed to the Admiral's flagship then taken to Leah's ship but the essence is still the same. And Vader does essentially call the bluff. "You're not on any mercy mission this time, you're a part of the rebel alliance and a traitor." He doesn't explicitly say "Bitch, I saw your ship fly away" but it's pretty damn close. He doesn't even let her try to get her full bs excuse out.

Quote
3) Why the sudden, abrupt change of stance on maintaining secrecy. Vader tells Krennic that Jeddah will be announced as a mining disaster but less than a few days later Tarkin blows-up Alderaan as a demonstration of force.

This is actually really, really simple and is explained in A New Hope with the briefing scene. "The Emperor has dissolved the Imperial Senate permanently" immediately followed up by "fear will keep the local systems in line." It's hard to say how much time passes between the end of Rogue One/start of ANH and that briefing scene but regardless, a major political shift has happened in the Empire and the Emperor no longer even has to pretend to play nice and make excuses.

Quote
4) Some fuckery to minor things like: Wedge being flight control so he doesn't see the Death Star before ANH, Mon Mothma being around for this movie but absent in ANH a short week or two later.  Why does Vader slaughter everyone solo, but then send Stormies in first an hour or two later.

So yeah, small things in the big picture and far less fucked than some Trek continuity problems. Still there, though.

The stuff with Wedge really depends on timing. Did he jump out before the Death Star arrived? Was he even a pilot then? ANH definitely implies that at least a few of the pilots were new, likely to replace losses at Scariff. (It literally shows Red 5 die.) I wouldn't be surprised if both Wedge and Biggs, for example, were put into active duty after Scariff. As for Mon Mothma, this is shown pretty clearly in the movie itself. After that meeting at Yavin the various leaders take off, scattering to the four winds for various reasons.  Poor Bail Organa returns to Alderaan and I think Mon Mothma is going back to the Senate or something. As for Vader and Stormtroopers, I didn't worry about that. I just chalked that up to "Things we can do now vs things we could do in 1977." In universe it could be as simple as Vader being like "I'm tired after killing those dudes and the 501st is itching to shoot people, I'll let them get it out of their systems."
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 01:03:44 PM by Riggswolfe »

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Shannow
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Reply #17 on: September 19, 2017, 01:27:33 PM

8 will go a long way to determining 9. Give us a good story!! If the story is good and the writing is half decent 9 won't have too much chance to derail (ala whatever the fuck STID was).

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Reply #18 on: September 19, 2017, 01:36:04 PM

Fuck Abrams.

The Director.  Not the tank.

No wait.

Fuck that tank too.

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BobtheSomething
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Reply #19 on: September 19, 2017, 09:38:47 PM

Abrams will be fine on Ep IX, so long as they keep Lindeloff away, which I'm sure isn't a problem. Abrams worst movies have still been watchable - Into Darkness and Super 8 were both watchable, even if ID was fucking awful if you took 2 seconds to think about it at all.

Apparently I think too much during the movies, then, or have a different definition of watchable.  However, I will admit that Super 8 could have been a very good movie if he just cut out the monster and focused on the human characters.  (I never thought I would advocate for that, but there it is.). STID was shit on multiple levels.
BobtheSomething
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Reply #20 on: September 19, 2017, 09:41:11 PM

Abrams is a lot like Lucas in that he needs to just shoot the movie and have little creative control over the writing and story.  As a pure behind the camera director, Abrams is one of the best out there, he just needs to be kept away from anything resembling a pen.

That's a big part of it, but he still has pacing issues and scale issues.  There was no time to catch your breath or let an emotional beat sink in in TFA.  And how big was the Republic?  We're all those planets in one system?  Is the Resistance one bunker full of guys? 
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Reply #21 on: September 19, 2017, 11:07:59 PM

Was Super 8 really not that well liked?  I thought it had its flaws, but was overall above average and fun.  Certainly not a bad movie.

Into Darkness was a shitty trek movie, but totally fine/watchable as a sci-fi action movie to eat pop corn to.  Way worst things out there.  Like Jurassic World (now that movie pissed me off).

But Shannow has the right of it I think.  If they do a great job in 8 of expanding the story line and giving the overall plot of the trilogy a direction for JJ to run off of, he should be fine.  If not.....

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Reply #22 on: September 20, 2017, 04:01:19 AM

Super 8 was another sub par carbon copy of a better film.  That's his problem.  He's so unoriginal it's not real.


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Reply #23 on: September 20, 2017, 11:29:38 AM

I will totally acknowledge that.  You can argue over how good of a job he actually does at making them, but most of his stuff is just throwbacks or cliche.  Which is why, if Episode 8 really sets the tone and plot for the remainder of the trilogy, he should be ok.  If it ends up being really self contained or vague, leaving it up to him to come up with the whole ending..........

fuck.

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Reply #24 on: September 20, 2017, 01:50:07 PM

I remember when Episode 7 came out and I was like " this is just a shitty remake of episode 4" and ya'll was like "yo that's cool man, great to have star wars great to have stars". Now Episode 8 is around the corner and your worried about a director, whose only talent is rehashing older better movies into sub-par soulless remakes, is going to make a sub-par soulless remake after you just praised him for making a sub-par soulless remake?   Ohhhhh, I see.

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Reply #25 on: September 20, 2017, 04:58:25 PM

TFA was way worse than pod racing + darth maul, probably better than Jar Jar + droid army (most of the suck has been erased from my memories i'm betting) and tbh I've never managed to actually sit through the entire 3rd prequel so I can't compare them. Its not that its bad but I just don't give a fuck after prequels 1 & 2, I didn't see it in theaters and at the first or second commercial break on tv I always find something else to do/watch.

JJ Abrams is trash, Into Darkness was carried hard by whoever cast it.

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Reply #26 on: September 20, 2017, 05:09:40 PM

Remember when JJ went all mysterious and "hey we are going to have a past Trek villain and its totally secret and its going to be a total surprise and awesome!" And the entire internet went "It's going to be Khan, isn't it?" and he went all "HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT!!!!!"

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Reply #27 on: September 20, 2017, 06:52:17 PM

TFA was way worse than pod racing + darth maul, probably better than Jar Jar + droid army (most of the suck has been erased from my memories i'm betting) and tbh I've never managed to actually sit through the entire 3rd prequel so I can't compare them. Its not that its bad but I just don't give a fuck after prequels 1 & 2, I didn't see it in theaters and at the first or second commercial break on tv I always find something else to do/watch.

JJ Abrams is trash, Into Darkness was carried hard by whoever cast it.


The Prequels were bad. But in the "some idiot who doesn't know how to make a movie is making a movie way" Not in the "eat a face full of memerberries to enjoy this" kinda insulting bad that I reserve for most hollywood remakes.

JJ Abrams gets away with being a hack because he is good at making movies. Doesn't make his movies good. But you don't stop watching it half way through, you don't go "that's stupid" while watching it. He gets you into the theater, assaults your senses, treats you like the vegetable grade cash milk that you are, and leaves you regretting you even sat through the damn thing. He's that one night stand you don't quite remember agreeing to between the first and third mimosa.

The Prequels are forgivable in how bad they are, like dating a really awkard guy who has no idea what he is doing and only going off that one positive interaction with a female friend who lets him hang out with her in public.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #28 on: September 20, 2017, 11:18:27 PM


The Prequels are forgivable in how bad they are

Rank TFA as low as you want but the prequels never get a pass, ever.

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lamaros
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Reply #29 on: September 21, 2017, 01:00:41 AM

I remember when Episode 7 came out and I was like " this is just a shitty remake of episode 4" and ya'll was like "yo that's cool man, great to have star wars great to have stars". Now Episode 8 is around the corner and your worried about a director, whose only talent is rehashing older better movies into sub-par soulless remakes, is going to make a sub-par soulless remake after you just praised him for making a sub-par soulless remake?   Ohhhhh, I see.

Aye, this thread has left me confused.

Maybe it's a different wave of posters, though.

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Reply #30 on: September 21, 2017, 08:15:34 AM

Nope, just crazy posting.
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Reply #31 on: September 21, 2017, 09:30:40 AM

TFA in and of itself was a good movie most of us here enjoyed.  It was perfectly fine for the first movie of the new trilogy, but I can also acknowledge its flaws concerning originality.  It only really becomes a problem in the later half of the series if he keeps that up (and JJ doesn't have the best track record).  This is why we can be totally fine with how the first movie turned out, but still fear how the trilogy will end, done by the same person.

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Reply #32 on: September 21, 2017, 01:43:14 PM

Remember when JJ went all mysterious and "hey we are going to have a past Trek villain and its totally secret and its going to be a total surprise and awesome!" And the entire internet went "It's going to be Khan, isn't it?" and he went all "HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT!!!!!"


FUCK THAT GUY.

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Reply #33 on: September 21, 2017, 02:13:07 PM

TFA in and of itself was a good movie most of us here enjoyed.  It was perfectly fine for the first movie of the new trilogy, but I can also acknowledge its flaws concerning originality.  It only really becomes a problem in the later half of the series if he keeps that up (and JJ doesn't have the best track record).  This is why we can be totally fine with how the first movie turned out, but still fear how the trilogy will end, done by the same person.

Shovel him a butt load of praise for being derivative but competent and expect him to not be derivative but competent the second time around is like literally not learning from his hat trick with star trek.


The Prequels are forgivable in how bad they are

Rank TFA as low as you want but the prequels never get a pass, ever.
And no TFA is not prequel bad. TFA is just unoriginal triple AAA gaming bad. Congratulations JJ star wars is now the movie equivalent of call of duty.

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Reply #34 on: September 21, 2017, 03:19:22 PM

I'm pretty sure the movie equivalent of COD is what most Star Wars fans (or really any fans invested in a franchise brand) really want. And considering how Rogue One played with that formula a bit, I'm willing to give the Star Wars folks the benefit of the doubt.

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