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schild
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Reply #35 on: October 28, 2016, 07:14:18 PM

The Optimus Maximus? Everyone forgets about the Razer KOTOR keyboard also.

Also, neckbeards? Comeon now. There isn't any value being presented in the new macbooks. It's a little silly.
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Reply #36 on: October 28, 2016, 08:04:46 PM

The Optimus Maximus? Everyone forgets about the Razer KOTOR keyboard also.

Also, neckbeards? Comeon now. There isn't any value being presented in the new macbooks. It's a little silly.

The Surface Book still shits on its Apple equivalent from a great height and while I'm not a form over function guy, the Surface Studio is an amazing piece of design and fabrication.  





Also, $300 VR.

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #37 on: October 29, 2016, 02:52:22 AM

The keyboard is a big 'meh' as far as I am concerned. I like weird input devices, and I can see how this one could have some potential. Not keeping at least one HDMI or Thunderbolt 2 port, or at least shipping it with an adapter, is a little less defensible. But if people don't like being charged $50+ for dongles they only need because Apple changed their ports around again, they probably quit buying Apple long ago.

Making it actually weaker computationally with less storage than the previous generation is just swamp poop. The Pro line is supposed to be for serious work, that's why it carries such a premium. But this round is literally a downgrade.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
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Reply #38 on: October 29, 2016, 05:52:08 AM

If you are going by CPU clock speed numbers for that "less powerful" claim then you haven't bought Intel processors in a while. The last couple of generations have had each iteration of the same "model" be considerably lower in base CPU frequency.

I ran into this while trying to spec some replacement server blades 2 generations newer than our existing ones a few months ago.

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Reply #39 on: October 29, 2016, 07:53:23 PM

I have one of those in near-pristine condition that my Director somehow corrupted so it will randomly shut off and not turn on for a week. Then work fine for a couple hours.

This is not fixable via OS reload?  Genuine interest since I now use one of these things but have no experience with fixing them.

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Reply #40 on: October 29, 2016, 10:36:04 PM

If you are going by CPU clock speed numbers for that "less powerful" claim then you haven't bought Intel processors in a while. The last couple of generations have had each iteration of the same "model" be considerably lower in base CPU frequency.

I ran into this while trying to spec some replacement server blades 2 generations newer than our existing ones a few months ago.
I've been told that the actual benchmarks are also lower, that the new physical layout has less efficient cooling and as a result the CPU's throttle at a lower level (which also happens with PC's, but as always you have more options for both OEM and aftermarket there). And the smaller SSD's is just a fact, you're looking at a price step one notch higher than the previous generation for any given amount of storage.

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
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Reply #41 on: October 30, 2016, 05:54:06 AM

The Optimus Maximus? Everyone forgets about the Razer KOTOR keyboard also.

Also, neckbeards? Comeon now. There isn't any value being presented in the new macbooks. It's a little silly.

The Surface Book still shits on its Apple equivalent from a great height and while I'm not a form over function guy, the Surface Studio is an amazing piece of design and fabrication.  
Also, $300 VR.

Schild linked that Surface Studio and I was enthralled. I really want to try one out and hope the MS store in town gets one soon. They look like a lot of fun and really well-though-out for design workflows. The SurfaceBook was powerful enough to run Inventor and Photoshop on some pretty large files, and the 250mb Revit Model I threw at it was smooth as silk. This should preform as well, but has so much real estate for drawing it's ridiculous.

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Reply #42 on: October 30, 2016, 09:00:13 AM

I have no real need for the creative tools, but I'd sure like a non-touchscreen version of that monitor.

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Reply #43 on: October 30, 2016, 09:30:40 AM

I'm actually shocked they didn't do a non-touchscreen version of that computer and make it even thinner (without the digitizer) (and like $2000 cheaper). Boyo. I'd have one in my guest room.
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Reply #44 on: October 30, 2016, 11:20:58 AM

The Surface Book is way not worth the asking price IMO for the hardware you get. We've had a lot of them come through where I work and they're built really well (even though the first one we had bricked itself when we detached the screen) but it was awfully salty for what you got.

Apple now makes phones that bend and cables that don't.

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Reply #45 on: October 30, 2016, 02:42:37 PM

The Surface Book is way not worth the asking price IMO for the hardware you get. We've had a lot of them come through where I work and they're built really well (even though the first one we had bricked itself when we detached the screen) but it was awfully salty for what you got.

Apple now makes phones that bend and cables that don't.
I have the top of the line Surface book. It's fucking amazing good. I use it literally every day.
Sky
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Reply #46 on: October 31, 2016, 07:05:51 AM

I have one of those in near-pristine condition that my Director somehow corrupted so it will randomly shut off and not turn on for a week. Then work fine for a couple hours.

This is not fixable via OS reload?  Genuine interest since I now use one of these things but have no experience with fixing them.
No, I tried a bunch of shit since it seemed like that. Next step would probably be disassembly to check internal connections and whatnot and I lost interest, because disassemblu on Apple products is like performing your own kidney transplant.

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Reply #47 on: October 31, 2016, 08:02:39 AM

The Surface Book is way not worth the asking price IMO for the hardware you get. We've had a lot of them come through where I work and they're built really well (even though the first one we had bricked itself when we detached the screen) but it was awfully salty for what you got.

Apple now makes phones that bend and cables that don't.
I have the top of the line Surface book. It's fucking amazing good. I use it literally every day.

Yeah, totally counter to my experience with the Surface Book. I plan on buying one as my daughter's machine when she goes to school.

Plus, you have to look at it from outside of the "I'm a computer dork" box. Designers need powerful machines to run the various 2d and 3d platforms used to produce work. We got nothing but complaints when we were speccing the "lightest" PCs out there at 7-11 pounds. "It's too heavy. it weighs a ton. I don't take it home because it's a pain to lug around."

The people we had testing the Surface Books had zero complaints, and they were some of the loudest whiners before. The things are amazing and weigh almost nothing. THAT is the real reason they're popular, much like the MacBooks. Nobody gives a shit about actual specs except people who understand hardcore specs mean additional weight.

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #48 on: October 31, 2016, 08:41:27 AM

Plus, you have to look at it from outside of the "I'm a computer dork" box. Designers need powerful machines to run the various 2d and 3d platforms used to produce work. We got nothing but complaints when we were speccing the "lightest" PCs out there at 7-11 pounds. "It's too heavy. it weighs a ton. I don't take it home because it's a pain to lug around."

The people we had testing the Surface Books had zero complaints, and they were some of the loudest whiners before. The things are amazing and weigh almost nothing. THAT is the real reason they're popular, much like the MacBooks. Nobody gives a shit about actual specs except people who understand hardcore specs mean additional weight.
Totally get that, it's kind of my point. The MacBook Air line was supposed to fit that niche (light and easy to haul around) while the Pro line was for people who wanted the Mac but also wanted to do serious work with it. On paper, Apple has discontinued the Air, in practical effect they have discontinued the Pro line of serious hardware and are selling an expanded Air lineup under the Pro labeling.

--Dave

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Sky
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Reply #49 on: November 01, 2016, 08:28:25 AM

I just had to run the numbers for our Mac updates this year. Had to stand in front of the Director and probably the Trustees at some point and explain that I cannot responsibly buy the lower end offerings any more. Dual core processors? What the hell?

And for my machine where I need to run actual apps, virtual machines and remote machines?

We are on the precipice of moving over to Windows boxes (and all the headaches that will entail), just because of the lack of horsepower and steep price tag. (and all that's without getting into Apple's shitbag politics killing the Fair Repair Act)

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Reply #50 on: November 01, 2016, 08:57:23 AM

Plus, you have to look at it from outside of the "I'm a computer dork" box. Designers need powerful machines to run the various 2d and 3d platforms used to produce work. We got nothing but complaints when we were speccing the "lightest" PCs out there at 7-11 pounds. "It's too heavy. it weighs a ton. I don't take it home because it's a pain to lug around."

The people we had testing the Surface Books had zero complaints, and they were some of the loudest whiners before. The things are amazing and weigh almost nothing. THAT is the real reason they're popular, much like the MacBooks. Nobody gives a shit about actual specs except people who understand hardcore specs mean additional weight.
Totally get that, it's kind of my point. The MacBook Air line was supposed to fit that niche (light and easy to haul around) while the Pro line was for people who wanted the Mac but also wanted to do serious work with it. On paper, Apple has discontinued the Air, in practical effect they have discontinued the Pro line of serious hardware and are selling an expanded Air lineup under the Pro labeling.

--Dave

You're right, because the thing is people want BOTH. Light and easy to haul around while as powerful as the Pro series. The Surface Book is the first one to even approach that as a solution. The Airs were worthless and we'd have execs complain they couldn't do anything on them. (duh) The Pros were "too heavy" and comments were always made about how much lighter and 'sleeker' the Airs were.

Computer-illiterates do not understand hardware limitations, OS differences or even power state differences (Why can I browse for hours but as soon as I watch a movie the battery dies!?) This is why there are still people trying to do business on 300 best buy PC specials designed to look like Macs then complaining they don't work like Macs.

Apple appears to have decided the solution to this is cater to the lower end of specification while branding it as the higher-end and claiming victory. It's not like brand-loyalists will switch or learn a new OS. Computer illiterates don't do that and will be happy to have the lighter laptop that's branded "Pro" while not understanding they're getting a lessor system.

While wonks are savaging Apple, and rightfully so from a Wonk perspective, this works out better for them from a branding one.

The real mind-blower for me is the obvious failure of a cohesive Apple vision. No headphone jack on the phones, but there's one on the laptop and ipad. No SD card, but continue to market as "The Device" for creatives and photographers. No touch on the Laptop but be the company that revolutionized the smartphone and produces the ipad.

Others I've seen mentioned but have no confirmation on are: Imessage is a mess on the Laptop OS but is integral to the other devices. That's no good. Also apparently there's no support for the new wireless heaphones on the laptop, but a month ago there was nothing but hype about how amazing they are.

And equally damning, I had this pop-up in my LinkedIn feed today:

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/microsoft-is-now-more-innovative-than-apple-2016-10
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 10:01:23 AM by Merusk »

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #51 on: November 01, 2016, 06:36:01 PM

So, we're in agreement: Apple users will pay a premium for inferior hardware in order to keep that Apple coolness. Which is right up there with 'water is wet' for stating the obvious, we're just seeing Apple milking that dynamic a little more blatantly than they have in the past.

The question is, will the actual 'creatives' that gave the Apple brand that shine stick with it now that it can no longer deliver real performance at any price?

--Dave

--Jello Biafra: "If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve."
Surlyboi
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Reply #52 on: November 01, 2016, 07:16:34 PM

Oh, I love the prognostications. Give us more.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
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Reply #53 on: November 01, 2016, 07:47:29 PM

Oh, I love the prognostications. Give us more.
Since it is well established that I can't understand why anybody uses Apple products, my guesses as to what will finally force their deprogramming would be useless.

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Reply #54 on: November 02, 2016, 05:03:36 AM

I don't know why other people use Apple products, but I purchased Macs for my family because I was completely over trying to fix fucking Windows shit.  Having a job in computers means that I'm the asshole when the Win print spooler goes insane (which I argue is a misnomer; should be called "Hope Your Shit Makes It To Paper, You Cunt") or there is a malware or PICK YOUR FUCKING CHRONIC WINDOWS ISSUE.

I guess if "Apple Cool" means "It just works" then yea, I'm one of those trilby-wearing hipsters or somehow a different flavor of moron.  I am perfectly OK with OTHER people wasting precious hours dicking with DOS 7 but I choose to spend my time differently.

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Reply #55 on: November 02, 2016, 05:04:53 AM

Certain people have issues understanding the meaning of opportunity cost  why so serious?

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Reply #56 on: November 02, 2016, 05:23:25 AM

Certain people have also never had the major issues others complain about with Windows boxes. Mainly because they lock shit down in the same fashion Macs do for users that aren't them.

 why so serious?

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Reply #57 on: November 02, 2016, 05:38:24 AM

Ain't nobody got time for that.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Reply #58 on: November 02, 2016, 05:56:45 AM

Ain't nobody got time for that.
Times, they are a-changin'.

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Reply #59 on: November 02, 2016, 08:03:30 AM

Certain people have also never had the major issues others complain about with Windows boxes. Mainly because they lock shit down in the same fashion Macs do for users that aren't them.

 why so serious?

I think he's talking about getting Macs for the dumbfucks who don't have clue one how to keep a Windows box from shitting itself repeatedly.

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Reply #60 on: November 02, 2016, 06:38:28 PM

Still ain't got time for that.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
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Reply #61 on: November 03, 2016, 06:58:31 AM

Still ain't got time for that.
Ain't nobody got time for that.
Times, they are a-changin'.
Unless the hardware improves on the lower end offerings, we'll be transitioning away from Apple with our next purchasing cycle. I'll be developing the plan, wasn't quite ready for such a big change right at budget time.

And honestly, nobody here will be happy about it. Our hand is being forced. I like you shirleybob, but being smug when your company is making bad decisions isn't an appropriate response. Even our most diehard Apple guy is getting an Android phone this generation, and he's been the most brand loyal person I've ever met.

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Reply #62 on: November 03, 2016, 09:01:55 PM

Not at all smug. I'm not excited about some of the decisions the company has made but the people jumping ship because, "OMG, it's all going to shit", are blowing it out of proportion.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Sky
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Reply #63 on: November 03, 2016, 09:41:04 PM

Not at all smug. I'm not excited about some of the decisions the company has made but the people jumping ship because, "OMG, it's all going to shit", are blowing it out of proportion.
Gotcha, feel the same. My putting a plan together to 'jump ship' is just based on current reality projected out to the next upgrade cycle, not on a kneejerk "NO HEADPHONE JACK" kinda thing :)

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Reply #64 on: November 04, 2016, 04:33:11 AM

I have always been frustrated with Apple's relentless churning of some of what ought to remain stable in their design architecture for reasons that never seem to make real sense other than letting them claim that the next device is new! But I like some of what you get with their OS. So I will keep using an Apple at work--where someone else is paying--and a PC at home (mostly for gaming). The thing that's in the balance for me always is laptop/mobile device. For the last three years, I've been using an iPad in that role, and it's about to die (if Apple doesn't brick it first on purpose with an update). That's where I can either go back to Apple via an iPad or MacBook, or I can go somewhere else. Right now I'm kind of inclined to go somewhere else.
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Reply #65 on: November 04, 2016, 05:09:37 AM

Schild linked that Surface Studio and I was enthralled. I really want to try one out and hope the MS store in town gets one soon. They look like a lot of fun and really well-though-out for design workflows. The SurfaceBook was powerful enough to run Inventor and Photoshop on some pretty large files, and the 250mb Revit Model I threw at it was smooth as silk. This should preform as well, but has so much real estate for drawing it's ridiculous.

Our local Microsoft store got one for demo purposes.  My coworker tried it out and said the screen plus the dial is amazing, if either one of us had a use case for it we would get one in a heartbeat.  He's trying to convince himself that his girlfriend needs one for drafting.
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Reply #66 on: November 04, 2016, 05:23:08 AM

Unfortunately drafting programs haven't quite adopted to the new touchscreen world quite yet. What's her drafting role? Engineering? Manufacturing? Architecture/ Interior Design? Construction?

I can probably create a convincing use case for you.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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schild
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Reply #67 on: November 04, 2016, 08:30:13 AM

Schild linked that Surface Studio and I was enthralled. I really want to try one out and hope the MS store in town gets one soon. They look like a lot of fun and really well-though-out for design workflows. The SurfaceBook was powerful enough to run Inventor and Photoshop on some pretty large files, and the 250mb Revit Model I threw at it was smooth as silk. This should preform as well, but has so much real estate for drawing it's ridiculous.

Our local Microsoft store got one for demo purposes.  My coworker tried it out and said the screen plus the dial is amazing, if either one of us had a use case for it we would get one in a heartbeat.  He's trying to convince himself that his girlfriend needs one for drafting.

Yea, I tried one out at the store up north. It immediately became the object that may make me dust off the old art degree and do something with it.
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Reply #68 on: November 05, 2016, 05:16:56 AM

Unfortunately drafting programs haven't quite adopted to the new touchscreen world quite yet. What's her drafting role? Engineering? Manufacturing? Architecture/ Interior Design? Construction?

She does commercial interior design.  I have zero idea what programs she use but I"m sure he's already aware of what works and what won't work for her stuff since he's already had built at least one pc designed for her work stuff at home.
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Reply #69 on: November 05, 2016, 08:20:24 AM

 Commercial interior designers frequently use Adobe products and sketch up in modern workflows. That's perfect for her as it replaces a Wacom for less money of equal size.  Wacoms are like 3k for a 22" display.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
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