f13.net

Edit by Trippy: general thread for Apple news that doesn't warrant its own topic

I'm hoping they fuck the Macbook Pro up really bad this Thursday. I hope the dumb thing I heard where they might replace the F keys with a touch-sensitive OLED screen thing is true, and that they replace all of the connections with USB-C so I can watch people try to defend it.

I'm looking forward to all the tears from OS X/macOS vi users :awesome_for_real:

wait what

Long time Apple users have no right to be surprised by Apple's dick moves. They do it constantly. It's one of the most entertaining things about Apple.

But will it have a headphone jack?  :why_so_serious:

Yes, vim users I follow on twitter have flooded my feed with their concern. I think someone suggested Apple release an escape key dongle for $139. 

MacBook Pros that are to be announced tomorrow will almost certainly have a touchbar replacing the function keys. This has been rumored for a while and was revealed in images hidden in the latest macOS update (http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/25/images-of-new-macbook-pro-leaked/).

(http://i.imgur.com/l98T1VY.jpg)

That means the ESC key will no longer be a dedicated hardware key. The latest macOS update also includes a way to remap the ESC key to a modifier key (https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/25/remap-escape-key-action-macbook-pro-macos-sierra-10-12-1-modifier-keys/) but that's a poor workaround if you want to use a dedicated hardware key, especially since any real Unix person already has the Caps Lock key remapped to be Control.
 

If escape was not removed it would be fine. Lenovo X1 Carbons don't have a function key row and I have never heard anyone who has them in our office complain.

Not having escape is fucking weird as shit but, whatever.

:nda:

(https://media.giphy.com/media/GjYjLvGErsggg/giphy.gif)

I do have a regular-sized Appley USB keyboard that already has more keys than the MBP, so I'll easily ignore this until something (I can't imagine what) compels me to get a new MBP.

Annnnd, it does. And is not compatible with the iPhone7 headphones without another cable and/or adapter. lulz

Can we talk about how Microsoft kicked Apples fucking teeth in and are making Paint great again?

(https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmemecrunch.com%2Fmeme%2F1ERPC%2Fhow-sway%2Fimage.png&f=1)

€2600 for the base 15 inch model. That's €400 more than I paid for my 2013 MacBook Pro and that one has double the SSD capacity (512 vs. 256) of the new one and had the best graphics chip already.

To get the same option set as I did with my old one I'd have to pay €3200 or a cool $1200 more than I paid for my 2013 model (which was already quite expensive to begin with). WTF Apple. For that price I expect gilded escape keys not some shitty oled  touch bar.

Is there someone out there waiting for Paint to improve?  Lots of projects on hold until that happens?

God it's not even worth humor. Of course there isn't. They had no reason whatsoever to update it. And yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxyufNrH4Mw

Kids, man. Actual children. Put them in front of that shit.

Related: Humans exist that still think a backwards cap is cool?

Those people were obviously morons.

Everything changes, everything is the same.

They did indeed fuck up the Macbook Pro. Glorious.

It's gonna be funny watching UNIX greybeard types have to stare at their keyboards using emacs/vim if they insist on one of these monstrosities. The Apple Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Dongle is $50. You couldn't possibly be more owned if you're a Mac-haver and wanting to "upgrade".

Steve would have brutally slain any engineer who dared show him that touch bar.

No he wouldn't have. He would've demanded more from it though.

Blind people will never behold the glory of an input interface that is a touchbar.

I'm seriously confused by the current direction Apple is going with hardware.

Real emacs users don't care about the missing hardware ESC key -- only n00bs use that instead of a proper meta key.

Edit: hardware, that is

What in the actual fuck did I just watch?

(https://i.reddituploads.com/5fd320b7172841c7ba36d856ccbae990?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=f3cbee575fb5af10063fdab002743c75)

Eh, it looks cool other than the 30 year old corporate kids.

Shame the input lag shows even in their sales videos though.

It's a great concept and eventually touch screen interfaces are going to be a standard thing. Having configurable buttons by app/task is just waaay too useful. Never mind it's not a new thing, Apple can claim they invented it :) But I give them credit for getting it out in front of a lot of consumers to push adoption for better solutions :)

esc key is in the wrong orientation and the cable needs to be shorter :awesome_for_real:

It's the correct orientation of Apple's hilariously bad escape key here:

http://store.storeimages.cdn-apple.com/4973/as-images.apple.com/is/image/AppleInc/aos/published/images/M/B1/MB110LL/MB110LL?wid=1200&hei=630&fmt=jpeg&qlt=95&op_sharpen=0&resMode=bicub&op_usm=0.5,0.5,0,0&iccEmbed=0&layer=comp&.v=-_ykn1

But I agree, the cable should be so short that it's...

attached to the keyboard

No it's not. That cable is too short (and stiff) to be bent at a 90 degree angle easily so that ESC key is effectively rotated 90 degrees when in use. I.e. it's in "portrait" orientation rather than "landscape" orientation.

It's 2016. Just make it wireless.

My mid-2015 MBP polishes its case with your tears.

I have one of those in near-pristine condition that my Director somehow corrupted so it will randomly shut off and not turn on for a week. Then work fine for a couple hours.

Bought her a new one (which is fine so far), but I'd reeeally like to use the old one as a brain for a home studio...

But they're not. The screen is nice, and the USB-C thing is understandable to people who follow Apple. But the touchbar seems like some CE company's gimic, a point of differentiation derived from a "we need something different" desparation move, not a "we need to move computer users forward in a meaningful way". More of the mouse puck and less of a multitouch track pad.

That's ok though. Apple's made some dumb moves over the decades and people still buy their shit because it's a religion.

But they've been having it tough the last two years as their flagship stock price driver plateaued, their wearable has dominant marketshare in a business nobody really cares all that much about, and they haven't reinvented anythings they or others say they're reinventing (notably music, TV, and movies).

I suspect it's just because they're timid. Steve Jobs was a very special person. You can't really train the kind of skill he had, the reality distortion field that was his innate leadership style (make people believe it, and it's that belief that makes it possible). Can't really blame Tim Cook for not having the same quality because, like, 99% of humanity doesn't either :-)

Read an article about this recently, that I can't find now. Essentially, there's only room for one visionary at the top echelon of a company, and they surround themselves with people who are excellent at execution, but hopelessly inadequate at imagination. Then the 'Visionary' that was supplying all the ambition and imagination leaves/retires/dies, and the company left behind is this exquisitely tuned organizational device designed to take the ideas from the top and make them happen...but the guy at the top doesn't really have any now. Or at least, he doesn't know the 'secret sauce' the visionary used to sort out the wild brainstorming shit and turn it into The Vision.

So he's left with just grabbing onto random shit that enters his head and trying to impose it into reality. Stuff that looks sort of like the crazy, 'courageous', reality-distorting ideas that made the company great, but ultimately are just pointless.

--Dave

Personally, I've been waiting for something like this since Art Lebedev tossed out that concept keyboard with the OLED displays for keys. Is it the best iteration of a thing? No, but it's a start.

Also, the salt from the neckbeards is amazing.

The Optimus Maximus? Everyone forgets about the Razer KOTOR keyboard also.

Also, neckbeards? Comeon now. There isn't any value being presented in the new macbooks. It's a little silly.

The Surface Book still shits on its Apple equivalent from a great height and while I'm not a form over function guy, the Surface Studio is an amazing piece of design and fabrication.  

(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/56rzho6p9KfeAvCYULVl3D2UKSw=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7350555/hinge.0.gif)

(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/kFQXkfWYVYCRnSfXpAhRBTVXH4M=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7350333/dial.0.gif)

Also, $300 VR.

The keyboard is a big 'meh' as far as I am concerned. I like weird input devices, and I can see how this one could have some potential. Not keeping at least one HDMI or Thunderbolt 2 port, or at least shipping it with an adapter, is a little less defensible. But if people don't like being charged $50+ for dongles they only need because Apple changed their ports around again, they probably quit buying Apple long ago.

Making it actually weaker computationally with less storage than the previous generation is just :uhrr:. The Pro line is supposed to be for serious work, that's why it carries such a premium. But this round is literally a downgrade.

--Dave

If you are going by CPU clock speed numbers for that "less powerful" claim then you haven't bought Intel processors in a while. The last couple of generations have had each iteration of the same "model" be considerably lower in base CPU frequency.

I ran into this while trying to spec some replacement server blades 2 generations newer than our existing ones a few months ago.

This is not fixable via OS reload?  Genuine interest since I now use one of these things but have no experience with fixing them.

I've been told that the actual benchmarks are also lower, that the new physical layout has less efficient cooling and as a result the CPU's throttle at a lower level (which also happens with PC's, but as always you have more options for both OEM and aftermarket there). And the smaller SSD's is just a fact, you're looking at a price step one notch higher than the previous generation for any given amount of storage.

--Dave

Schild linked that Surface Studio and I was enthralled. I really want to try one out and hope the MS store in town gets one soon. They look like a lot of fun and really well-though-out for design workflows. The SurfaceBook was powerful enough to run Inventor and Photoshop on some pretty large files, and the 250mb Revit Model I threw at it was smooth as silk. This should preform as well, but has so much real estate for drawing it's ridiculous.

I have no real need for the creative tools, but I'd sure like a non-touchscreen version of that monitor.

I'm actually shocked they didn't do a non-touchscreen version of that computer and make it even thinner (without the digitizer) (and like $2000 cheaper). Boyo. I'd have one in my guest room.

The Surface Book is way not worth the asking price IMO for the hardware you get. We've had a lot of them come through where I work and they're built really well (even though the first one we had bricked itself when we detached the screen) but it was awfully salty for what you got.

Apple now makes phones that bend and cables that don't.

I have the top of the line Surface book. It's fucking amazing good. I use it literally every day.

No, I tried a bunch of shit since it seemed like that. Next step would probably be disassembly to check internal connections and whatnot and I lost interest, because disassemblu on Apple products is like performing your own kidney transplant.

Yeah, totally counter to my experience with the Surface Book. I plan on buying one as my daughter's machine when she goes to school.

Plus, you have to look at it from outside of the "I'm a computer dork" box. Designers need powerful machines to run the various 2d and 3d platforms used to produce work. We got nothing but complaints when we were speccing the "lightest" PCs out there at 7-11 pounds. "It's too heavy. it weighs a ton. I don't take it home because it's a pain to lug around."

The people we had testing the Surface Books had zero complaints, and they were some of the loudest whiners before. The things are amazing and weigh almost nothing. THAT is the real reason they're popular, much like the MacBooks. Nobody gives a shit about actual specs except people who understand hardcore specs mean additional weight.

Totally get that, it's kind of my point. The MacBook Air line was supposed to fit that niche (light and easy to haul around) while the Pro line was for people who wanted the Mac but also wanted to do serious work with it. On paper, Apple has discontinued the Air, in practical effect they have discontinued the Pro line of serious hardware and are selling an expanded Air lineup under the Pro labeling.

--Dave

I just had to run the numbers for our Mac updates this year. Had to stand in front of the Director and probably the Trustees at some point and explain that I cannot responsibly buy the lower end offerings any more. Dual core processors? What the hell?

And for my machine where I need to run actual apps, virtual machines and remote machines?

We are on the precipice of moving over to Windows boxes (and all the headaches that will entail), just because of the lack of horsepower and steep price tag. (and all that's without getting into Apple's shitbag politics killing the Fair Repair Act)

You're right, because the thing is people want BOTH. Light and easy to haul around while as powerful as the Pro series. The Surface Book is the first one to even approach that as a solution. The Airs were worthless and we'd have execs complain they couldn't do anything on them. (duh) The Pros were "too heavy" and comments were always made about how much lighter and 'sleeker' the Airs were.

Computer-illiterates do not understand hardware limitations, OS differences or even power state differences (Why can I browse for hours but as soon as I watch a movie the battery dies!?) This is why there are still people trying to do business on 300 best buy PC specials designed to look like Macs then complaining they don't work like Macs.

Apple appears to have decided the solution to this is cater to the lower end of specification while branding it as the higher-end and claiming victory. It's not like brand-loyalists will switch or learn a new OS. Computer illiterates don't do that and will be happy to have the lighter laptop that's branded "Pro" while not understanding they're getting a lessor system.

While wonks are savaging Apple, and rightfully so from a Wonk perspective, this works out better for them from a branding one.

The real mind-blower for me is the obvious failure of a cohesive Apple vision. No headphone jack on the phones, but there's one on the laptop and ipad. No SD card, but continue to market as "The Device" for creatives and photographers. No touch on the Laptop but be the company that revolutionized the smartphone and produces the ipad.

Others I've seen mentioned but have no confirmation on are: Imessage is a mess on the Laptop OS but is integral to the other devices. That's no good. Also apparently there's no support for the new wireless heaphones on the laptop, but a month ago there was nothing but hype about how amazing they are.

And equally damning, I had this pop-up in my LinkedIn feed today:

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/microsoft-is-now-more-innovative-than-apple-2016-10

So, we're in agreement: Apple users will pay a premium for inferior hardware in order to keep that Apple coolness. Which is right up there with 'water is wet' for stating the obvious, we're just seeing Apple milking that dynamic a little more blatantly than they have in the past.

The question is, will the actual 'creatives' that gave the Apple brand that shine stick with it now that it can no longer deliver real performance at any price?

--Dave

Oh, I love the prognostications. Give us more.

Since it is well established that I can't understand why anybody uses Apple products, my guesses as to what will finally force their deprogramming would be useless.

--Dave

I don't know why other people use Apple products, but I purchased Macs for my family because I was completely over trying to fix fucking Windows shit.  Having a job in computers means that I'm the asshole when the Win print spooler goes insane (which I argue is a misnomer; should be called "Hope Your Shit Makes It To Paper, You Cunt") or there is a malware or PICK YOUR FUCKING CHRONIC WINDOWS ISSUE.

I guess if "Apple Cool" means "It just works" then yea, I'm one of those trilby-wearing hipsters or somehow a different flavor of moron.  I am perfectly OK with OTHER people wasting precious hours dicking with DOS 7 but I choose to spend my time differently.

Certain people have issues understanding the meaning of opportunity cost  :why_so_serious:

Certain people have also never had the major issues others complain about with Windows boxes. Mainly because they lock shit down in the same fashion Macs do for users that aren't them.

 :why_so_serious:

Ain't nobody got time for that.

Times, they are a-changin'.

I think he's talking about getting Macs for the dumbfucks who don't have clue one how to keep a Windows box from shitting itself repeatedly.

Still ain't got time for that.

Unless the hardware improves on the lower end offerings, we'll be transitioning away from Apple with our next purchasing cycle. I'll be developing the plan, wasn't quite ready for such a big change right at budget time.

And honestly, nobody here will be happy about it. Our hand is being forced. I like you shirleybob, but being smug when your company is making bad decisions isn't an appropriate response. Even our most diehard Apple guy is getting an Android phone this generation, and he's been the most brand loyal person I've ever met.

Not at all smug. I'm not excited about some of the decisions the company has made but the people jumping ship because, "OMG, it's all going to shit", are blowing it out of proportion.

Gotcha, feel the same. My putting a plan together to 'jump ship' is just based on current reality projected out to the next upgrade cycle, not on a kneejerk "NO HEADPHONE JACK" kinda thing :)

I have always been frustrated with Apple's relentless churning of some of what ought to remain stable in their design architecture for reasons that never seem to make real sense other than letting them claim that the next device is new! But I like some of what you get with their OS. So I will keep using an Apple at work--where someone else is paying--and a PC at home (mostly for gaming). The thing that's in the balance for me always is laptop/mobile device. For the last three years, I've been using an iPad in that role, and it's about to die (if Apple doesn't brick it first on purpose with an update). That's where I can either go back to Apple via an iPad or MacBook, or I can go somewhere else. Right now I'm kind of inclined to go somewhere else.

Our local Microsoft store got one for demo purposes.  My coworker tried it out and said the screen plus the dial is amazing, if either one of us had a use case for it we would get one in a heartbeat.  He's trying to convince himself that his girlfriend needs one for drafting.

Unfortunately drafting programs haven't quite adopted to the new touchscreen world quite yet. What's her drafting role? Engineering? Manufacturing? Architecture/ Interior Design? Construction?

I can probably create a convincing use case for you.  :grin:

Yea, I tried one out at the store up north. It immediately became the object that may make me dust off the old art degree and do something with it.

She does commercial interior design.  I have zero idea what programs she use but I"m sure he's already aware of what works and what won't work for her stuff since he's already had built at least one pc designed for her work stuff at home.

 Commercial interior designers frequently use Adobe products and sketch up in modern workflows. That's perfect for her as it replaces a Wacom for less money of equal size.  Wacoms are like 3k for a 22" display.

In my experience our Macs require a LOT more janitoring for basic shit like printing than our windows machines. On the windows side we spend most of our time troubleshooting bad engineering software that runs poorly on any OS it supports. Our mac users typically have their printers and drive mappings stop working, or their time machines conk out, or Outlook is fucked up, or any number of really basic office things that don't work.

I thought it was great hardware, it just seemed really overpriced.

For your average non-enterprise user, network shared print queue mappings and drive mappings are not something that will ever come up.

Using samba to connect to SMB shares is flaky as hell, I hear the linux guys around campus here bitching about it all the time. Also, I have people have issues with mapped drives disappearing on Windows machines in an entirely windows shop.

Seconding the ridiculousness of print management.  It took me 45 minutes last week to figure out how to change the default of a network printer from duplex to single-sided because there weren't any settings for it in the main printer management section.

It's really not intuitive on Mac for large enterprise printers unless somehow CUPS magically detects all the various attachments and duplexers and shit and everyone is just doing it wrong.

You need the software for the specific printer, the user needs to know the specific model of printer to select that software, then you need to know all of the attachments and finishers to use them because it doesn't seem to be able to detect it.

And somehow the keychain is even shittier than Windows Credential manager for domain printers.

CUPS really wants someone on the backend to configure things to work right. That's what we had to do with the Macs at the design firm. My report was in charge of print services and learned CUPs from our Mac consultant. He had things working great on large format printers as well as a Xerox document workstation with Finisher, Duplexer, Additional tray and hole punch. 

Not that the Mac users ever got it working right themselves because they kept trying to manually change settings on the printer when we told them not to.  :oh_i_see: