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Author Topic: Marvel's Iron Fist  (Read 6670 times)
Rasix
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Reply #35 on: March 08, 2017, 01:56:28 PM

Well, the reviews only cover the first 6 episodes. They can't all be that bad. I mean, it's not like the Netflix series tend to drag on and get worse as they progress and... yaaaah.

..

Maybe there's a miracle day one patch.


-Rasix
jgsugden
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Reply #36 on: March 08, 2017, 03:39:59 PM

Hey, the original Star Wars had bad reviews... 

I'll watch it to be a completionist,  but this was the least interesting Marvel Character to get a project to date for me... and if they are not knocking it out of the part, it may end up feeling like Legends of Tomorrow instead of the Flash.

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Reply #37 on: March 08, 2017, 03:41:57 PM

There's the analogy I was grappling for.

Except, I'd choose a DC WB that was actually good.  Like....., I dunno actually, does wanking to Benoist count ?

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Reply #38 on: March 08, 2017, 06:55:37 PM

this was the least interesting Marvel Character to get a project to date for me...
The Heroes for Hire thing could've been awesome. But as the core of the Defenders? Blah. I want Dr Strange, Valkyie and Gargoyle in my Defenders. But Heroes for Hire, sort of a 'case of the week' type show would've had legs.

And I thought Jessica Jones was complete garbage out of the Marvel shows so far. Hated the premise and casting. At least Agents is pulpy fun most of the time.

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Reply #39 on: March 08, 2017, 10:06:36 PM

I think you have to do something to mix up Iron Fist somehow--he's just too cliched in multiple ways, including the white savior thing but not limited to that. Looks like they never came up with a "take" on him, but it also looks like the action is really subpar and that Finn Jones is just completely unconvincing as a martial artist. Plus it's even *more* talky and nothing-is-happening than the other Netflix shows, from what all the reviews are saying.
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Reply #40 on: March 08, 2017, 10:21:09 PM

I'm going to have to go Arrhh Mateys on this just to keep my hatewatching from making the Netflix numbers look better.

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Reply #41 on: March 09, 2017, 06:43:31 AM

I think you have to do something to mix up Iron Fist somehow--he's just too cliched in multiple ways, including the white savior thing but not limited to that. Looks like they never came up with a "take" on him, but it also looks like the action is really subpar and that Finn Jones is just completely unconvincing as a martial artist. Plus it's even *more* talky and nothing-is-happening than the other Netflix shows, from what all the reviews are saying.
Yeah, it was seeing how awesome the first Daredevil series was that made me look forward to Iron First the most.  Character built around magical kung fu fighting and all sorts of over the top Chinese lore?  Sounds great!  But if it actually does go the way you mention above, then Christ, what a waste.

Ah well, the character can still be fun in the Defenders series, as long as the producers bring back their A game for it.

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Khaldun
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Reply #42 on: March 10, 2017, 04:19:51 PM

Yeah.

So many possible choices, but they have to make a choice--you cannot just stand pat on him. There's almost no superhero really who can just go page to screen, but especially not a white corporate heir who knows kung fu from a childhood in Shangri-la and is out to avenge his dad.
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Reply #43 on: March 12, 2017, 08:50:04 PM

Did I miss something?  It still doesn't air for 5 days.  How are we at the point of rationalizing how it failed our dreams and expectations (and killed our dog) already?

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Reply #44 on: March 12, 2017, 09:29:14 PM

Reviews are out and very unkind.

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NowhereMan
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Reply #45 on: March 13, 2017, 10:03:56 AM

Although in fairness if this is Flash/Arrow levels of watchable it'll be fun but still justify getting terrible reviews in comparison to the other Netflix series.

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Reply #46 on: March 13, 2017, 10:31:33 AM

The Flash gets good reviews though; 94% on Rotten Tomatoes and 73 on Metacritic.  Arrow has even better reviews.

So far this is 14% and 32 respectively.

Reviews aren't everything, obviously.  But when the reviews don't seem to contain any good news I probably just won't bother watching it.  There's already so much good media to consume that I just don't have time for it all.  I'm not going to make time for something that doesn't have any bright spots.

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Bzalthek
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Reply #47 on: March 13, 2017, 11:46:06 AM

The Flash getting 94% would probably be a good indicator that the reviews are worthless.  Not that I dislilke Flash, but 94%? 

As far as I can tell, everyone seems to be bending over backwards to embrace tumblr tropes to show how culturally enlightened they are.  It's a fucking comic book show.

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Rasix
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Reply #48 on: March 13, 2017, 12:08:38 PM

Yah, they're hammering a little too hard on the diversity/cultural appropriation front. It's a comic book, and certain reviewers trying too hard to make an old work of fiction conform to what they desire to see on that social front. Not saying that Marvel couldn't do that, but I don't see anything necessarily wrong with just going along with "Kung Fu Bruce Wayne".

Supposedly the acting, directing, and overall plot are still bile on toast levels of putrid, but it might be fun regardless. I'll probably give it at least a shot, but I do expect it to be all sorts of awful.

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Reply #49 on: March 13, 2017, 02:01:28 PM

"Kung Fu Bruce Wayne".
Literally all it had to be. Then mix that with the Luke Cage setup and cameo DD every now and again.

I have no idea what they're thinking for the Defenders, the chemistry is, like, the chick from Clerks 2 and that's it.

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Reply #50 on: March 13, 2017, 11:05:29 PM

I think it's more super hero fatique than anything. I mean let's face it iron fist is hardly that interesting a character or even a power set really.  People can harp on cutural appropriation or bad storytelling but I'm betting at the heart of all the criticisms is a subconscious weariness of the genre.

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Reply #51 on: March 14, 2017, 09:17:02 AM

You can't blame weariness when good products still do good.  There is no amount of super hero fatigue that is going to keep Guardians of the Galaxy or Deadpool 2 from making a metric fuckton of money.  You simply cannot put out a shit product and expect money hats because it has super heroes on it, this has been true from day 1 of the super hero fad.

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Reply #52 on: March 14, 2017, 09:30:03 AM

I don't think it's weariness at all.

Jessica gave us hero female pov.  Cage, hero black pov.  Daredevil is a blind fucking lawyer, who wouldn't want to see that.

But Iron Fist really, really has to be special for me to be interested.  Frankly, I really wouldn't care if it was the super best Bruce Wayne Kung Fu ever because that's not terribly interesting.  (Indeed, you can't drag me to a Batman film now, since Nolan nailed it to the wall and nothing more needs said).

But by the sounds of all the reviews, not only did they not make it special, they didn't even make it good.  I'll watch it for Defenders completeness, probably, because the wife wants to, but I'll probably watch it in the same way I watch all the DC shows ;  with the laptop on reading in the background.


The heroes have to be interesting.  That's pretty much the golden rule.  You have to be excited for it and show me that for me to get excited for it.  That's why the DC Films are failing and the Marvel ones aren't.  But it sounds to me like no-one is hugely excited at Iron Fist and it shows.


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Reply #53 on: March 14, 2017, 10:09:49 AM

Yeah, with reviews this bad I'm left with my wildly unrealistic hope that the other series were so good being watchably mediocre is getting it panned and more realistic hope that at least they get the character working as part of the Defenders. There's a few fun potentials there basically playing Rand as the presumptive leader no one listens to, who also really seems clueless about basically all the shit his team mates are dealing with. If the creators really aren't inspired by the character though there's every chance he ends up just being in the background a lot.

Well at least I can hope for a few Punisher cameos.

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jgsugden
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Reply #54 on: March 14, 2017, 10:34:03 AM

The super hero fatigue argument is more fatigued than super hero show / films are.

The only hope I hold out is that reviews all seem to be based on the first 6 episodes.  I will stick it out - perhaps this is a series where they saved the best for last.


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Reply #55 on: March 14, 2017, 10:37:15 AM

Given Luke Cage, do you really think so ?


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Reply #56 on: March 14, 2017, 04:13:29 PM

I've been thinking of Luke Cage as basically two short seasons released at once.  One was great.
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Reply #57 on: March 14, 2017, 04:56:42 PM

The Flash getting 94% would probably be a good indicator that the reviews are worthless.  Not that I dislilke Flash, but 94%? 

As far as I can tell, everyone seems to be bending over backwards to embrace tumblr tropes to show how culturally enlightened they are.  It's a fucking comic book show.

Glancing quickly at the reviews for The Flash, pretty much all the reviews I see are for the first episode of the season. Unlike something like Iron Fist where critics got half the season to watch I don't see any indication that Flash reviewers got any sort of screeners for later episodes. If reviewers for Flash and Arrow had to review half or all of a season I'm guessing those numbers would end up a lot lower.
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Reply #58 on: March 14, 2017, 08:53:36 PM

Fatigue is about a lack of goodwill, not about a blind dislike for a genre,  good westerns were still well liked even after the genre was over.  People just aren't willing to be as lenient with their time/money when it comes to this genre when it's just "ok"

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Reply #59 on: March 15, 2017, 01:52:34 PM

Fatigue is about a lack of goodwill, not about a blind dislike for a genre,  good westerns were still well liked even after the genre was over.  People just aren't willing to be as lenient with their time/money when it comes to this genre when it's just "ok"
I don't see any difference in tolerance of bad Superhero movies over time, though.  We panned Clooney and Kilmer.  The Ang Lee Hulk was ... not widely liked.  We disliked Routh as Supes.  The Amazing Spidey franchise, outside Spider-man himself, was disliked.  The new DC movies are being beat up.  Over the past 30 years we have been disliking the bad stuff while still liking the stuff that worked.  Nothing has really changed as far as I can tell.  What mediocre hero movie did we throw money at when it was a meh film?  The X-men stuff?

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Reply #60 on: March 15, 2017, 02:39:45 PM

I'd argue X-Men was a pretty mediocre effort that was very well received because it was a mediocre entertaining effort in a genre that had almost always been very disappointing.

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Khaldun
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Reply #61 on: March 15, 2017, 10:22:45 PM

I bow to no one in my lifelong enthusiasm for superhero comics. But the fatigue is real. I'm at the point where the movie or TV show had better have a clear take on the genre, have some competency in executing the take, etc. and be a bit different from anything done so far. I'm sick of "hey, it's ok, it's a kind of ok movie about people with superpowers". Once upon a time, that was ok, because it was just kind of cool to see certain characters in a movie. It's not really enough now. That's what I would call fatigue. I don't want any more comic-book based films or TV shows if the showrunners don't have a clear idea about what they're doing with the character(s) and why.
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Reply #62 on: March 16, 2017, 02:14:59 AM

Eh, I think that's how everybody has felt from the beginning though.  People have been enjoying or hating super hero films based on them being good or shitty movies.  The only films I can think of that kind of got a pass in the way you are thinking are X-men 1 and 2.  They didn't have a lot going for them other than showing characters we grew up with on screen and not being totally stupid, but since no good superhero movie had been made in living memory, we liked them.  They are worst now going back and re-watching.

The first Spider-man film (2002) was what everybody I knew considered to be the first actual 'good' superhero movie.  They were all shit or guilty pleasures before that.  It also basically set off the wave of superhero movies that still runs today.  So not really sure there is any fatigue.  Making a bland action movie with no plot or charm, like every Fantastic 4 movie, will result in it getting shit on (just like every Fantastic 4 movie).
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 05:17:11 AM by Teleku »

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Reply #63 on: March 16, 2017, 04:11:50 AM

I'd argue X-Men was a pretty mediocre effort that was very well received because it was a mediocre entertaining effort in a genre that had almost always been very disappointing.

Yes.  Unfortunately so.

Our recent Superhero attempts have not been kind to X-Men.  Now more than ever before it is showing as hugely lacking.  Jackman, Stewart and McKellen are the only things that are remotely interesting about it and then you watch Logan and DAMN.



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Reply #64 on: March 17, 2017, 04:00:35 AM

First two episodes were decent. Some sets looked a little low budget at a couple points. I'm finding it easier to watch than Jessica Jones which seemed to have everyone miscast.

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Reply #65 on: March 17, 2017, 01:39:46 PM

I'm finding it easier to watch than Jessica Jones which seemed to have everyone miscast.

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Reply #66 on: March 18, 2017, 10:31:31 AM

It's passable. Nothing great.  David Wenham obviously had the same accent coach as Hugo Weaving did in the Matrix. Sounds like Mr Smith

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Reply #67 on: March 18, 2017, 04:56:21 PM

The most damning thing I can say about Iron Fist is I'm not binge watching it.

Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage? I sat my ass in front of the TV and watched the whole damn thing non-stop.


Iron Fist? I got half way through episode... 3? 4? and went 'eh I could do something else'.  why so serious?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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Reply #68 on: March 18, 2017, 07:47:30 PM

I'm two episodes in with the third starting now. It's terribly slow and it feels like Ive been watching for four hours already.

Then there's the terrible villain and plot...

Ed: also, they're trying too hard with the music.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 07:50:53 PM by Merusk »

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Bzalthek
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Reply #69 on: March 18, 2017, 08:29:07 PM

I started watching last night, had to pass out at 3am. ep. 6.  I'll probably finish it this weekend.  I like the character driven stories.  I personally really like how they're portraying the monks who trained him as opposed to the traditional all-wise, benevolent, zen folk.

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