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hal1
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Why is the division a pc game and black desert a mmorpg? They are in the wrong categories. The division is a mmorpg and black desert is a pc game with other players but you can't interact with them. How do you see this? What is witch?
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Evildrider
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5521
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Why is the division a pc game and black desert a mmorpg? They are in the wrong categories. The division is a mmorpg and black desert is a pc game with other players but you can't interact with them. How do you see this? What is witch?
I don't consider Division an MMO. Unless you are in a hub or in the pvp area you don't see other players, unless grouped. |
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Rendakor
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Posts: 10138
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Why is the division a pc game and black desert a mmorpg? They are in the wrong categories. The division is a mmorpg and black desert is a pc game with other players but you can't interact with them. How do you see this? What is witch?
Witch is something that weighs the same as a duck. |
"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
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Kail
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2858
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Why is the division a pc game and black desert a mmorpg?
Because the person who made the Division thread put it in PC Gaming and the person who made the Black Desert thread put it in MMOG Talk. There's a lot of bleed between MMOs and other genres as games want to pilfer the features that make MMOs successful without making the next Wildstar. The Division is one of those games that could go either way depending on your definition. You've got to draw the line somewhere. If it were important, maybe we'd need some kind of hard rules about where to put that divide, but as it stands, it doesn't matter, so who cares. black desert is a pc game with other players but you can't interact with them.
Can't... you? I haven't played it, but I'm pretty sure you can interact with other players in several ways? Like you can chat and group up and fight the same enemies and stuff? Or am I thinking of a different game? |
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Evildrider
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You've got to draw the line somewhere. If it were important, maybe we'd need some kind of hard rules about where to put that divide, but as it stands, it doesn't matter, so who cares.
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Segoris
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2637
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black desert is a pc game with other players but you can't interact with them.
Can't... you? I haven't played it, but I'm pretty sure you can interact with other players in several ways? Like you can chat and group up and fight the same enemies and stuff? Or am I thinking of a different game? You absolutely can. The main restriction is that you can't really trade with other people directly as it's all handled through the marketplace. Besides that, there's really nothing I remember seeing off the top of my head which limits this from being an mmo. Which, excuse me - witch, is why this topic just has a bad example in the op. |
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hal1
Terracotta Army
Posts: 134
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Ok, Black desert is a mmorpg. I'll grant you that but why is'nt the division? It's clearly a mmorpg granted it's a third party shooter but it's a mmorpg.
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Trippy
Administrator
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How many players fit in a single PvP instance?
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Gimfain
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Posts: 553
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Pretty much everything in the division is instanced, you can't fit that many people in each instance. Its not an MMO.
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When you ask for a miracle, you have to be prepared to believe in it or you'll miss it when it comes
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luckton
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Posts: 5947
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The Division is not an MMO. It has cutting edge multiplayer and instance mechanics, but on the scale of actual MMOs like Everquest or WoW? No.
Division is more in the vein of Borderlands, really.
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"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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The Division looks like a console shooter in the vein of the Battlefront series. Does it have armor/ gear drops, crafting and an openly explorable world? Those are the three things that still separate MMOs from "Lobby games" or "online-only games with a persistent element" in my mind.
Thinking about it, there needs to be a classification for those O-OPEGs. (PEGs?) They're not MMOs but they're not strictly single player or small party games either, as they still require a team to play and a large-enough online community to be playable and for the company to maintain servers.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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luckton
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Posts: 5947
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I would argue that armor/gear drops are RPG elements, not necessarily MMO elements. But you're onto something with the other two points.
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"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11127
a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country
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The Division ... Does it have armor/ gear drops, crafting and an openly explorable world?
Yes, it does. And that's what suggest MMORPG to a lot of people. What it does NOT have is the first "M", as it's all instanced. And there is no economy. No trading between players (although it's announced for the next patch) and no auction house, but yes it does have armor/gear drops, crafting and an openly explorable world. EDIT to clarify: I am not saying The Division is an MMORPG. Just reiterating why the lines are so much blurrier these days. |
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« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 05:52:09 AM by Falconeer »
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Threash
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Posts: 9171
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Persistent world = MMO, that should be the only rule. Black Desert counts, The Division doesn't.
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I am the .00000001428%
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KallDrexx
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Posts: 3510
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So Guild Wars 1 and 2 isn't an MMO, nor The Secret World?
The determination of what is and isn't an MMO is pretty pointless....
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Viin
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It just a marketing term now, depending on what audience you want to pay attention to your game.
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- Viin
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Threash
Terracotta Army
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I don't think we would call guild wars 1 an MMO today, I'm not sure why you put GW2 in there.
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I am the .00000001428%
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KallDrexx
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3510
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I don't think we would call guild wars 1 an MMO today, I'm not sure why you put GW2 in there.
So we would have before but today we wouldn't? I put GW2 in there because they have population caps on all open world instances, so if the population gets too high it spawns a new instance and new people go in there (which caused hell of a time finding friends when it launched). There's fundamentally nothing different about that then how Destiny and Guild Wars 1 did things except for the numbers before hitting that cap. |
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Threash
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We called it an MMO back then because that is what it claimed to be, but it was no more MMOish than the division is and we agree that one isn't.
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I am the .00000001428%
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
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I recall there was an argument that GW1 shouldn't have been considered an MMO back then, too. People considered it more of a lobby shooter. I'm sure you can search the archives here and find the threads.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11127
a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country
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I recall there was an argument that GW1 shouldn't have been considered an MMO back then, too. People considered it more of a lobby shooter. I'm sure you can search the archives here and find the threads.
This. I think GW1 is exactly the one game that started this conversation 11 years ago. |
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Setanta
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I must admit I wondered why we had WoT and WoWs in the MMO section. Neither scream out MMO to me.
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"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
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Trippy
Administrator
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They aren't.
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42666
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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MMO is a fucking dead term. No one ever really took advantage of it as the medium it should have been, the term is goddamn meaningless now considering the game populations of things like MOBA's and at best, it's a term that connotes a particular genre that is in its dying throes due to a complete lack of ability to evolve past its few past successes.
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Tearofsoul
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Posts: 76
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MMO should really be redefines as PWMO (Persistent World Multiplayer Online) nowadays
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Kail
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2858
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MMO should really be redefines as PWMO (Persistent World Multiplayer Online) nowadays
Still a better acronym than MOBA at least |
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hal1
Terracotta Army
Posts: 134
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Thanks for all the replies. The discussion was the point. I'm not sure there's an answer here but the discussion was fun to read. And we don't know how to classify these games.
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Evildrider
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Sure we do.. they are video games.  |
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Pendan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 246
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The one thing that blurs the definition with WoT is in an hour of play you often play with and against hundreds of different players. Something like Helldivers which is in this MMOG section on first page does not even come close.
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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What is witch?
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10632
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What is witch?
Witch is something that weighs the same as a duck. Winnar. |
'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
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Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 14223
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Sure we do.. they are video games. I dont see a VCR tape in my computer, do you? Huh? Huh? |
Hic sunt dracones.
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Lucas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3298
Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.
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This thread has potential.
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" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
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Evildrider
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5521
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Sure we do.. they are video games. I dont see a VCR tape in my computer, do you? Huh? Huh? I hid it in your CPU.. bash it open and look! |
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Azazel
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How many players fit in a single PvP instance?
I don't know. There's often quite a few, but it's big/open world, so you don't see others constantly. Think running around in the open world in WoW. The Division looks like a console shooter in the vein of the Battlefront series. Does it have armor/ gear drops, crafting and an openly explorable world? Those are the three things that still separate MMOs from "Lobby games" or "online-only games with a persistent element" in my mind.
Yes, yes and yes. |
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