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Author Topic: The Art Thread  (Read 10560 times)
Sky
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on: January 28, 2016, 09:12:16 PM

Anyone arting?

I decided to finally do something about learning to draw and paint, enrolled in a pretty nice art school. The drawing class is just crazy quick gesture still life stuff, so if you're interested hit my blog. But the oil painting portraiture class is pretty cool, I've actually impressed myself, which I thought impossible. I haven't drawn a face since the 80s.

Here's the project so far. 1st pic is the entire first 3 hour class (minus instruction time and breaks for the model), just getting measurements and proportions.



These two pics are from tonight, second class. Same time period, finalizing details and blocking in shadows. We will transfer this to canvas and start painting next week.




Yegolev
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Reply #1 on: January 29, 2016, 07:20:11 AM

I've actually impressed myself, which I thought impossible.

I'm glad I clicked this thread.  Great line.

I occasionally draw things and somehow am the designated artist in the house.  I write notes in elf script, draw on lunch bags, and other things that moms usually do.  I did have some drawing classes in college and for the most part have retained that ability.  It therefore makes me sad when I hear about someone enrolling in a pricey school to learn things like that.  But hey, it keep certain types of people employed.

I'm probably not going to post any of my work.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #2 on: January 29, 2016, 07:52:47 AM

So should I post actual pics of my art or just link to my website?  Or my FB art pageOh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I've theoretically been taking part in a 30-in-30 painting challenge this month, but I've stalled at day 16 for a while now.  Thing is, I tend to work on multiple pieces at once, since my primary medium is watercolor and I can switch around while letting things dry.  I'm mostly abstract though because I'm honestly too damn lazy for representational art.

Some older pieces

Extra pimping - they're all for sale, too.  Not that I'm doing too good on the marketing front, lol!

---------------------------

Yegolev - post the artwork!  I love seeing what other people do.  There's an art thread on another forum that I post in and one of the other regulars posts his pics that he does in a game called Drawception and they're awesome, even when he thinks they suck.  I've had to learn that what I like and what other people like don't always intersect.

Sky - so are you working from a live model or an image or what?  I'm trying to imagine a live model coming back over multiple sessions and getting back into pose properly.  Love seeing progress pics, too.  I can always learn something from them.

Sky
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Reply #3 on: January 29, 2016, 09:01:04 AM

It therefore makes me sad when I hear about someone enrolling in a pricey school to learn things like that. 
A couple reasons why I really like it. The painting instructor in particular has a great pedigree, and I like having directed learning from a competent source. There is absolutely no way I would have the understanding or the results I've gotten in two three-hour sessions if I was just scribbling in my sketchbook. I'm not saying it's the way everyone should do it, but it has worked shockingly well for me thus far. Also, I just like being on the campus and surrounded by all the artwork. There are a couple open studios adjacent where students come in to work on stuff, I like to pop into those during breaks and see the kids working, it's refreshing.

Anyway, as Rhyssa said, post up some stuff! I got into the habit when I began learning to paint minis, and it was definitely painful at first. But then it got to be second nature, posting my works in progress is just part of my process now. I find having it up on the Internet helps me because I can look at it while I'm away from home and this generally leads me to some objectives for my next session (extend the left eyebrow inward a bit more, accentuate where his hair fade is, etc). But I tend to be a bit analytical and obsessive about this stuff.

Rhyssa, those are awesome! I especially love the Green Hills. And yeah, it's a live model. We have to nudge him (slightly away from me, head up, etc) through the session. He's going nuts because the instructor won't let him wear his earbuds. I took some reference photos of the model so I can practice at home, but the drawing portion is more or less done at this point (for me). I may finish off the reference drawing after the class finishes up, put in the shading and whatnot, we'll see how it looks after I transfer it over. The class runs through the middle of April, once a week, so...yeah I feel bad for the kid, but this is what he does, he's done hundreds of classes.

I like your abstract stuff, and I'm pretty picky about non-representational art (actually I'm picky about that, too). It's definitely a lot of work to aspire to representational art, but I really enjoy reading and learning about the methods. Patrick Jones' book on oil painting is the one that really lit the fire, it resonated with me and his glazing reminded me of my thin layering with minis. With the workable time of oil paints, I look forward to the blending options that open up, too (my mini painting thin acrylics dry almost instantly, so they 'tear' if you overwork it). But learning the anatomy, learning to see (probably the single hardest thing, both for form and color), it tickles the analytic side of my brain and in fact I have to be sure to engage the creative side, too (that's where the drawing class comes in nicely).

I'm drawn to the idea of learning how to accurately draw and paint reality, and using that as a basis for fantasy painting, along the lines of Patrick Jones, James Gurney, Frazetta, Vallejo, Adrian Smith, the Kopinsky brothers, Paul Bonner, Brom, etc etc. So that's the path I've decided to walk...and it's a long one!

Yegolev
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Reply #4 on: January 29, 2016, 09:24:45 AM

Yegolev - post the artwork!  I love seeing what other people do.  There's an art thread on another forum that I post in and one of the other regulars posts his pics that he does in a game called Drawception and they're awesome, even when he thinks they suck.  I've had to learn that what I like and what other people like don't always intersect.

It has more to do with time than anything else.  My brother has a MFA and bolts together trash for public showings, so I'm well WELL aware of the low quality bar for art works and installations.  He happens to have gotten his MFA at Pratt, which flavors my comments about universities teaching art.  Know your biases. :)

Anyway, I don't sit down and draw for fun.  I create things, but I do it in technical media like AWS. Ohhhhh, I see.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
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Selby
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Reply #5 on: January 29, 2016, 09:39:15 AM

It therefore makes me sad when I hear about someone enrolling in a pricey school to learn things like that.  But hey, it keep certain types of people employed.
Some of us have zero artistic talent and therefore are useless human beings, so seeing others art and those who are learning gives us hope.  Seriously, for some of us stick figures aren't even possible.

I've been following Rhyssa's artwork for some years now and it always impresses me. More of you artists need to post your work so I can admire it from a distance and say to myself "wish I could do that!"
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Reply #6 on: January 29, 2016, 10:18:43 AM

I have not touched art since getting a degree in Art Studio. \_(ツ)_/
Sky
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Reply #7 on: January 29, 2016, 10:58:02 AM

My brother has a MFA and bolts together trash for public showings, so I'm well WELL aware of the low quality bar for art works and installations.  He happens to have gotten his MFA at Pratt, which flavors my comments about universities teaching art.  Know your biases. :)
Oh, there's a ton of that. So much garbage. I'd say a solid 95% of the stuff the students are doing there fucking sucks. But I'm polite and just keep that opinion to myself. In fact, half the reason I want to learn to paint is my strong opinion on how shitty modern art is, these days the best artists are doing illustration. Those guys I listed as inspiration all make their bread by doing book covers, M:tG cards, etc. Meanwhile someone takes a dump on a rock and it's in a museum.

Luckily, my painting instructor is a fan of realist painters pre-Impressionism, so we get along just fine.

Also...I'd like to request that we keep this thread about art that f13'ers are producing and not a debate on how much any certain type of art does or doesn't suck :)

Merusk
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Reply #8 on: January 29, 2016, 01:21:16 PM

I don't art without being paid for it. My creative outlets are primarily home projects now.

Which is sad because I used to draw all the time prior to going to college.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
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Reply #9 on: January 29, 2016, 04:39:04 PM

I don't art without being paid for it.

The inherent problem with having a degree in the arts, especially when you are still using that training to make a living.

I don't "help out" with building scenery for community theatre because they don't pay for it and my time and expertise is worth more than any warm fuzzy feeling I could get from helping them. Especially since they invariably do shitty productions of shitty musicals. Fuck musicals, opera or play: pick one. Don't try to meld the two together badly.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
TheWalrus
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Reply #10 on: January 29, 2016, 05:08:05 PM

I'm getting a stock together of engine parts. Gonna start welding together some V8 animals. Not sure if that stuff belongs here, but if I get stuff done and remember, I'll post it here if anyone gives a damn.

Paelos: Somebody find that post where I declared Seattle dead, because those fuckers are NFL cockroaches in the NFC.
Sky
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Reply #11 on: January 29, 2016, 10:26:05 PM

I'm getting a stock together of engine parts. Gonna start welding together some V8 animals. Not sure if that stuff belongs here, but if I get stuff done and remember, I'll post it here if anyone gives a damn.
Sure, I love those.

As far as volunteering for my specialty, whether it be music or tech support...only if it's my idea and I bail at the first whiff of entitlement.

Also, you do scenery for community theater for gratuitous tits, unless your community theater sucks a lot more than the ones I've worked in.

Khaldun
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Reply #12 on: January 30, 2016, 06:59:16 AM

I took several live drawing classes a while back. The thing that disappointed me a bit was that the best work I did was more abstracted and impressionistic (we were mostly working charcoal)--I would rather be able to do good line work and have a strong control over perspective. But my mind evidently doesn't work that way. The best stuff I did was I think pretty good--instructors also thought so--but it still felt like a mismatch between what I like in other people's work and what I did.

It's roughly the same as what I do best with photography--moody landscapes and work with color. There I'm much happier with the outcome. I'd like to tackle portraiture more but I find it very intimidating.

I've tried a bit also to do some artistic work in wood and there I just don't have the skills yet. That will take another class when I can find the time.
Sky
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Reply #13 on: January 30, 2016, 09:46:47 AM

I'm glad I took the two classes for a similar reason to your first point, Khaldun. The drawing class with the hippy free spirit is a nice zen thing, but I don't care much for the stuff I'm creating there. It's more about working on my vision and ability to draw big. The portrait class is much more satisfying, but it's sooo much work. I wasn't sure about diving in the deep end, but the instructor encouraged me to and I'm happy she did. A lot of focus on measuring, proportions and anatomy; every artist I look up to places proportion and anatomy at the top of the list of necessary skills. Without them, everything just looks wonky.

If I had just taken the drawing class, it would be devloping good skills, but without the satisfaction of the portrait class, it would be hard to find motivation.

Just for completion's sake, here's the kind of stuff we're doing in the drawing. 18x24, conte on newsprint. Mostly 2-3 minute quick studies, these are 10-15 minute where the teacher got distracted while giving feedback (hippy) and forgot to set the timer. The soft shading is from smudging with a chamois cloth.


Kail
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Reply #14 on: February 04, 2016, 12:06:37 AM

I should probably take an art class or something.  I've been drawing a lot less lately because it's become very frustrating.  It feels like I haven't improved much in the past few years.  And not in the "I have achieved perfection and now am bored" way.  More the "this sucks and I can't figure out why" way.  Probably some kind of cyclic thing, drawing less so I don't improve so I feel frustrated so I draw less.
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Reply #15 on: February 04, 2016, 07:38:05 AM

Yes.

Lesson one in art class was the same as photography. Do it at least once a day. You will improve, even if you don't think you are. Take a picture once a day, draw a picture once a day. Doesn't matter what it is, so long as you're practicing your skills when doing it.

That is to say, don't bullshit through it by snapping a half-thought photo or just throwing lines on the paper.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Sky
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Reply #16 on: February 04, 2016, 08:40:43 AM

I'm still slow to pick up daily sketching, even though I know I need to. I don't want to develop bad habits right off the bat. But I really need to because I really need the practice. I was going to run through some Loomis head drawing exercises and ended up spending most of the time just trying to draw round circles and then perpendicular circumference lines. Trying to find a good mix of instruction books for head/hands/figure drawing; I've got two or three pretty good ones but it's really fuzzy on the initial drawing steps.

Last night I started too late, after a couple Bocks, so no progress as I just hung it up after a few minutes. Earlier in the evening I did get my canvas washed with burnt sienna to establish a mid-value to underpaint on after I transfer my drawing. Should have some new pics tonight or those steps. Really getting into new territory, as I've never painted with oils.

Tues night drawing class focused on negative space. Teacher is a fan of abstract, and all her examples were from that genre, so I was trying to focus on the exercises and not let my mind turn off due to the abstract art (do not like). But overall I learned a little, not much, and finished very few drawings. Pretty meh class, at least practicing drawing basic shapes big and fast was getting stuff drawn.

I should probably find a better way to draw ellipses, I'm borderline retarded at getting them correct.

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Reply #17 on: February 04, 2016, 10:49:56 AM

In art it's not 'bad habits' it's technique.

Also, they're only 'bad habits' if you're looking to emulate a specific style rather than embrace your own.

It took me YEARS to realize this when I was actually drawing. I'd look at other people's work and think, "Man I wish I could make it look like that." I don't remember where or when my epiphany happened, but the realization that all artists do things their own way was a long time coming.

Watterson vs. VanGogh vs. Degas vs. Shultz vs. Picasso. They all look different and trying to do one man's style would create "bad habits" when trying to emulate the others. Find your own, and the only way to do that is by doing.

Now then.. sermon over, on to the rest of your post. I only did a few weeks of life drawing, but the initial steps of life drawing are like any other drawing. Rough the outline and proportion, then find the key features and fill them in. Then on to details.  Proportion and relationships are the hardest part, in my experience. That's something that comes through time and practice.

I'm terrible at faces but it's because I always avoided them. I'd do the same as you, rough out a lot of circles then try to find the circumference lines, decide it was crap and moved on to another series of circles and lines. Hands and figure were lots easier because it's a lot more line and shape vs. circles and shade. Box out the meat of the hand, then the fingers to find the right proportions to the rest of the figure, then start lining and shading.

But that's MY process. That's also why you need to sketch. To find a process that works for youOh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Yegolev
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Reply #18 on: February 04, 2016, 06:24:23 PM

Due to another thread here, I took another look at my nixtoons.  I'm pretty impressed with myself, but that's not really new at all.




Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Sky
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Reply #19 on: February 04, 2016, 09:39:01 PM

Oils class, transferred the painting and blocked in values. First time using oil paints (or painting on canvas or doing a portrait or...). Full details on the blog, with some pics of intermediate steps if you're interested in how it develops.


Sky
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Reply #20 on: February 04, 2016, 09:40:38 PM

Also, I remember doing a reaction comic to yours, Yeg:


pxib
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Reply #21 on: February 04, 2016, 10:53:11 PM



I do MS paint art sometimes.
RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #22 on: February 05, 2016, 09:15:05 AM

Dang, that's nice, pxib.  I like it!

Sky - I can't see your pics on the blog.  Just the first one is showing up. :(

Sky
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Reply #23 on: February 05, 2016, 10:42:24 AM

MS paint? Crazy good!

Rhyssa, they're hosted on Dropbox, do you have issues seeing stuff hosted there? Can you see the one I posted here (it's the 4th from the blog post)?

pxib
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Reply #24 on: February 05, 2016, 01:32:29 PM

MS paint?

I got involved with an online cartoonists group several years back and didn't have a mouse or a tablet (anybody else miss trackballs? I loved trackballs.) and so, in order to keep my lines clean, I got a lot of experience using MS paint's spline tool. I started with stuff similar to Yegolev's Nixtoons and then buckled down for an hour or so every day and figured out how to translate the knowledge I had from years of conventional sketching into that new medium.

I do mouse drawings as well now, along with pencil and paper stuff, but I try to keep in practice with the spline work at least once a year. It's sort of my calling card with what's left of the cartoonists. I'd love to have an excuse to do it more often, but lately I've been focusing what artistic free time I have on the piano.

I want to second what Merusk says about bad habits, though. There are only two genuine bad habits so far as I'm concerned: Finding excuses not to produce art, and failing to look at your work with a critical eye for goal-oriented improvement. Literally everything else is just a matter of preference and practice. Stop imagining the three dimensional objects you understand and just try to see the two dimensional shapes they outline in front of your eye.

Humans are very good at quickly absorbing visual ideas, so the ability to draw is a priceless way to communicate. I don't regret a moment I've devoted to studying it.
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Reply #25 on: February 05, 2016, 02:41:02 PM

I tried using GIMP today and I'm doing something wrong.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Merusk
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Reply #26 on: February 05, 2016, 02:47:37 PM

Probably because you're using GIMP.  awesome, for real

What are you trying to accomplish?

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Yegolev
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Reply #27 on: February 05, 2016, 02:59:53 PM

Draw a line.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
pxib
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Reply #28 on: February 05, 2016, 03:08:04 PM

Native GIMP is for image editing. There are add ons for standard arting, mostly related to Gimp Paint Studio. It's still wildly inferior to anything that's actually designed with painting in mind from the ground up. Then again, people use Photoshop for painting and it's not designed for that either. GIMP isn't worse.

If you devote yourself to it, you'll find a powerful set of tools (especially examine the potential of the different types of masks and layers)... and there are absolutely people who do great work in GIMP.

Draw a line.

If you want to do vector art, try Inkscape. GIMP hasn't really got easy tools for that either.
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Reply #29 on: February 05, 2016, 08:27:07 PM

Inkscape is pretty much ch the best free alternative to illustrator there is. In some ways it is better.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Sky
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Reply #30 on: February 05, 2016, 11:26:29 PM

Stop imagining the three dimensional objects you understand and just try to see the two dimensional shapes they outline in front of your eye.

Mmm...this doesn't work for me. So far I draw better when I imagine the dimensions. I mean, the portrait I'm working on is decent and totally based on measuring and 2d, but I've done a couple really nice sketches based on my very early study on the anatomy of the eye. It just feels more natural and understanding where things tuck around the 3d object and how everything sits under the skin helps me a lot.

Sky
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Reply #31 on: February 08, 2016, 07:37:06 AM

In art it's not 'bad habits' it's technique.

Also, they're only 'bad habits' if you're looking to emulate a specific style rather than embrace your own.
After practicing this weekend...no, it's bad habits. There's not a lot of tolerance for not having proper foundations unless you intend on being an abstract artist or something. Realism demands precision (you can later break those rules, but if you don't learn them it looks like shit).

It's my main problem with 'drawing 101' class. She did not start with geometric primitives, and she's an abstract artist. How can you expect non-drawing people to pull geometric primitives out of paper bags and vases without starting them on geometric primitives. Bad habits.

I bought some foam primitives and will pursue proper study on my own, I guess.

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Reply #32 on: February 08, 2016, 08:58:35 AM

I'm really terribad at painting or drawing, but I spent a while learning techniques with a professional artist. Paint by number oil and alkyd copies of his originals every time one sold. I found alkyd painting to be better in pretty much every way to oil, from cost of materials to time drying to clean up.
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Reply #33 on: February 08, 2016, 10:59:58 AM

Draw a line.

Pixb covered it, yeah it's GIMP. There's also Adobe Draw on the iPad and a few sketching programs you might have better luck with if all you're after is vector linework.

Sky, I'm not getting what you mean about bad habits. You're describing something different from a drawing habit, and that's ability to translate from the eye to the hand. That's technique not habit and only comes with practice in your sketchbook drawing real objects. Your idea about primitives is a good place to start.

Habits are things like, "I hold the conte crayon this way all the time to generate fat lines," "I use the HB pencil to rough shape and composure instead of the 5h," or "I start with the background then layer my foreground over top of it."

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Sky
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Reply #34 on: February 08, 2016, 12:39:46 PM

If I draw 400 shitty ellipses without instruction, I'm habituated to drawing shitty ellipses and would have to work that much harder at correct it later.

I'm getting less enthused about my drawing teacher as she fails to give me tools to correct this, I think it's due to her not having ever learned said tools.

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