Star Wars : Into Spoilers - The Spoiler awakens.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'm too young to have seen the original triolgy in theatres, I own 0 star wars toys or merch and I went back to re-watch the unedited 4-6 a couple weeks before release. I can say with the full authority of having no dog in this fight, you're still wrong.

[01101010]

I saw it once, you're still wrong.

Same.

Nothing to do with nostalgia. Everything to do with accepting that it is a fucking movie based on sci-fi fantasy. Way too many nutjobs out there that try to make this story real for whatever reason.

[Merusk]

You people know better than to feed trolls. I'm sorry his dad didn't hug him enough too, but c'mon.

[MediumHigh]

Yes I'm a troll for pointing out flaws in a movie 

[Riggswolfe]

The part where Rey becomes a super jedi isn't bad because no in universe explanation is possible. It's bad because the no on universe explanation is presented and because the film script hasn't earnt enough trust to make you believe there is an explanation other than plot requirements.

Not to beat a dead horse but she doesn't become a super Jedi. She mind tricks a stormtrooper, uses the force to pull a saber to her and beats an almost mortally wounded and exhausted Kylo Ren in a duel. Barely.

Its funny that the only people defending the third act are the ones who saw it 5 times. The fact that none of those feats are in anyway consistent with any star wars cannon for even the most casual of fans is just hand waved cause "reasons".

I've seen it once. The only person super attacking it is you and that's because it's become some kind of personal crusade for you. Hell, you care more about this movie than people who enjoyed it.

[MediumHigh]

The part where Rey becomes a super jedi isn't bad because no in universe explanation is possible. It's bad because the no on universe explanation is presented and because the film script hasn't earnt enough trust to make you believe there is an explanation other than plot requirements.

Not to beat a dead horse but she doesn't become a super Jedi. She mind tricks a stormtrooper, uses the force to pull a saber to her and beats an almost mortally wounded and exhausted Kylo Ren in a duel. Barely.

Its funny that the only people defending the third act are the ones who saw it 5 times. The fact that none of those feats are in anyway consistent with any star wars cannon for even the most casual of fans is just hand waved cause "reasons".

I've seen it once. The only person super attacking it is you and that's because it's become some kind of personal crusade for you. Hell, you care more about this movie than people who enjoyed it.

Except I'm not the only one with those criticisms, maybe of the few who put them all in one place, maybe the first, but not the only. But I'm the troll and everyone else maybe taking a kids movie too seriously? Sure 

[MahrinSkel]

MediumHigh, you're a troll because you troll. Constantly. In every thread. Now you're trolling by claiming that not all of your trolling is completely unhinged from reality. But you're still trolling, in this case for someone willing to argue with you over whether you're a troll. Which I sort of just gave you, unless I'm meta-trolling you.

--Dave

[Sir T]

Who trolls the Trolls?

[MediumHigh]

MediumHigh, you're a troll because you troll. Constantly. In every thread. Now you're trolling by claiming that not all of your trolling is completely unhinged from reality. But you're still trolling, in this case for someone willing to argue with you over whether you're a troll. Which I sort of just gave you, unless I'm meta-trolling you.

--Dave

 

[Soulflame]

You have a URL in your signature that says troll.

So, fucking fuck off with your claims of not trolling.

[sickrubik]

JUST. STOP. RESPONDING. TO. HIM.

CHRIST.

[Surlyboi]

Can't wait for you to stop being a trolly bitch about it.

[sickrubik]

Can't wait for you to stop being a trolly bitch about it.

 

[Goumindong]

The part where Rey becomes a super jedi isn't bad because no in universe explanation is possible. It's bad because the no on universe explanation is presented and because the film script hasn't earnt enough trust to make you believe there is an explanation other than plot requirements.

Not to beat a dead horse but she doesn't become a super Jedi. She mind tricks a stormtrooper, uses the force to pull a saber to her and beats an almost mortally wounded and exhausted Kylo Ren in a duel. Barely.

Note that Kylo also isn't trying to kill her (rather capture/turn her) as well. Plus, unless you were braindead because the plot beat it into you so hard, the saber was not pulled to Rey. The Saber chose Rey as soon as she accepted her destiny.

The Rey/Kylo fight is consistent with canon. Shit, in the first movie. Luke outflys Vader, "the best starpilot in the galaxy and the strongest jedi in the universe"

[Surlyboi]

Can't wait for you to stop being a trolly bitch about it.

 

I swear I posted that hours earlier.

[Mithas]

The Rey/Kylo fight is consistent with canon. Shit, in the first movie. Luke outflys Vader, "the best starpilot in the galaxy and the strongest jedi in the universe"

I don't agree with MediumHigh, but it did take a surprise attack from Han Solo to save Luke.

[sickrubik]

Can't wait for you to stop being a trolly bitch about it.

 

I swear I posted that hours earlier.

It oddly worked.

[Goumindong]

The Rey/Kylo fight is consistent with canon. Shit, in the first movie. Luke outflys Vader, "the best starpilot in the galaxy and the strongest jedi in the universe"

I don't agree with MediumHigh, but it did take a surprise attack from Han Solo to save Luke.

Kind of, but kind of not. Vader goes in for the kill on what should be an easy shot, down a trench, where we had seen him never miss. He shoots and misses "the force is strong in this one" he says and tries to line up another shot.

[MediumHigh]

Lightsabers don't "choose" people. There not magic. Ren exerted a force, Rey exerted an equal force, light saber doesn't move. Ren exerted more force, Rey exerted a greater force, lightsaber went to Rey.

[01101010]

... and Han shot first.   

[Ironwood]

Come on chaps, be fair.  The choosing thing was a retarded thing to write and Mr High is quite right to shoot it down.

It reminds me of Liam Neeson giving people a row about how lightsabres work.  "It's a Button !!"

[Margalis]

Maybe lightsabers are full of midichlorians.

Or maybe it was possessed by the ghost of Obi Wan.

Both these explanations are more than plausible in the Star Wars universe. (lol)

[Evildrider]

Maybe lightsabers are full of midichlorians.

Or maybe it was possessed by the ghost of Obi Wan.

Both these explanations are more than plausible in the Star Wars universe. (lol)

Maybe they took inspiration from Harry Potter... and now the Lightsaber chooses the wielder.   

[Goumindong]

Star Wars has always been about vaguely eastern mumbo jumbo. The force acting through items is no more far fetched that a cave being strong in the dark side(edit: while still containing "only what you take with you"). Its all tied up in a vague concept of destiny and so yes, the saber can absolutely "choose" rey.

Explain it however you want. Rey has a closer connection to the saber and so can pull it easier. The force prevented it going to Kylo because it wasn't his. Kylo's arrogance at his perceived destiny blinded him to his true path, and not being his path he was unable to execute it. Do or do not, there is no try, such Kylo's perceived effort does not matter, nor Reys, but rather Rey was in the right mindset and Kylo, in his desire to possess was not. The Force itself chose.

Yadda yadda yadda. There are a million and one ways to do this just touching on the original trilogy and the movie beat you over the head with all of them at the same time. (Because again, the force is some vague eastern mumbo jumbo and so there is no one explanation)

[Morat20]

I finally got around to seeing this yesterday. Enjoyable.

As for the lightsaber, I'd prefer vague mystic mumbo-jumbo about a weapon "choosing" someone over midichlorians. Give the space wizards some magic.

Random thoughts:
1) Clearly, several people involved in art direction have played KOTOR.
2) I wonder if Rey's ability to tap into the force with no training, and basically only Ren's mind-raping example, is an indication that someone played Revan-style games on her.
2a) Ren is basically "Lame Vader" Not as strong, not as skilled, not as dedicated. Would not surprise me at all to find that when he went to purge the New Jedi Order, he couldn't quite kill everyone. And since his big skills seem to be mental force powers, mindwiping a girl he couldn't bring himself to kill and dumping her off with a random family wouldn't surprise me.
3) For a light side power, Force Stasis is creepy as hell.
5) I suspect Rey's gonna go dark side -- probably in Episode 2, after killing Ren -- who is a pretty shitty dark Jedi at the moment --  an Finn will train as a Jedi to get her back and after she curb stomps him, he'll bring her back Luke style. Only she'll probably survive.

I enjoyed it. There was plenty of humor, the effects were often very good, and hearing the music when the X-wings came roaring in over the lake was a pretty awesome return to childhood. It's not gonna win Oscars, except maybe for music or effects, but the acting was solid enough, the plot was stock space opera and stock star wars with the usual plotholes, but I didn't really care. I wasn't exactly there for a tightly scripted masterpiece, you know?

[Goumindong]

Everyone in the movies taps into the force with no training*. Luke does it in Star Wars twice.

The big thing that seems to determine whether or not you're able to use the force is what your belief. Its vague eastern mumbo jumbo after all. But Yoda's training scenes don't actually have him training except physically. He is never taught how to do anything because there is no 'how' in the force. You just do it.

So once you have the idea that you can...

2a) is possible. But it seems unlikely to me. Ren seems pretty dedicated

My reading of Ren is similar. But he is rather a better done Vader. He is a CEO's son who realizes he will never be as successful as his father/heir (whom he sees as Luke/Vader). So he takes on a task that his forebearers could not accomplish and sets to it. He is, at heart, a good kid, but goes to the dark side because he believes that he will not have the power to achieve, to succeed, to be powerful without it. He is fooled/convinced by snoke that his grandfathers redemption and uncles refusal were their weaknesses.

This is why he wants to destroy the Jedi. This is why killing his father is his greatest test(and why it was hard for him). This is why his greatest fear is that he won't be as strong as Vader.

He will probably get a redemption arc. Not sure on Rey, there are a lot of ways they can go with her.

*To correct Han. No, that is exactly how the force works and you're about to walk into a base the size of a planet and find a specific person to convince them to drop the shields, then run into another specific person who you came to rescue, then run into your son.

[Draegan]

I finally got around to seeing this yesterday. Enjoyable.

As for the lightsaber, I'd prefer vague mystic mumbo-jumbo about a weapon "choosing" someone over midichlorians. Give the space wizards some magic.

Random thoughts:
1) Clearly, several people involved in art direction have played KOTOR.
2) I wonder if Rey's ability to tap into the force with no training, and basically only Ren's mind-raping example, is an indication that someone played Revan-style games on her.
2a) Ren is basically "Lame Vader" Not as strong, not as skilled, not as dedicated. Would not surprise me at all to find that when he went to purge the New Jedi Order, he couldn't quite kill everyone. And since his big skills seem to be mental force powers, mindwiping a girl he couldn't bring himself to kill and dumping her off with a random family wouldn't surprise me.
3) For a light side power, Force Stasis is creepy as hell.
5) I suspect Rey's gonna go dark side -- probably in Episode 2, after killing Ren -- who is a pretty shitty dark Jedi at the moment --  an Finn will train as a Jedi to get her back and after she curb stomps him, he'll bring her back Luke style. Only she'll probably survive.

I enjoyed it. There was plenty of humor, the effects were often very good, and hearing the music when the X-wings came roaring in over the lake was a pretty awesome return to childhood. It's not gonna win Oscars, except maybe for music or effects, but the acting was solid enough, the plot was stock space opera and stock star wars with the usual plotholes, but I didn't really care. I wasn't exactly there for a tightly scripted masterpiece, you know?

Good points and ones I've had myself. I would like but need Rey go dark. That would be a fun ride.

[Merusk]

The art direction looks similar to KOTOR because it was based on McQuarrie's sketches. That man was truly the heart and soul of the design aesthetic.

The only real KOTOR nod is Kylo's Revan-like mask.  Even THAT is closely linked to McQuarrie's original Vader sketches.
http://dorksideoftheforce.com/2015/04/21/star-wars-the-force-awakens-a-closer-look-at-kylo-ren/

[eldaec]

Regarding Kylo, I saw a thing with Arndt where he was explaning that the initial idea was to show an antagonist before he became an all powerful Vader figure.

I got the impression he was intending it to be a character who gets more powerful throughout. Possibly supplanting Star Gollum eventually.

How much they stick to his plan is different thing of course.

[Riggswolfe]

5) I suspect Rey's gonna go dark side -- probably in Episode 2, after killing Ren -- who is a pretty shitty dark Jedi at the moment --  an Finn will train as a Jedi to get her back and after she curb stomps him, he'll bring her back Luke style. Only she'll probably survive.

I've seen this theory several times but I don't think it'll happen. I suspect if we get any redemption arc it will be with Kylo Ren and it'll be as he dies.

[jgsugden]

My money is on Rey and Luke both going "beyond" Light and Dark side.  They'll take the 'Black and White' out of the Force - or so they'll claim.  Then, a few movies later, they'll show it was a slippery slope problem as she falls into the Dark Side.  We'll see her fall the way we should have seen Anakin - slowly and for all the 'right' reasons.  I think that will be in movies 10, 11 and 12.

[Morat20]

5) I suspect Rey's gonna go dark side -- probably in Episode 2, after killing Ren -- who is a pretty shitty dark Jedi at the moment --  an Finn will train as a Jedi to get her back and after she curb stomps him, he'll bring her back Luke style. Only she'll probably survive.

I've seen this theory several times but I don't think it'll happen. I suspect if we get any redemption arc it will be with Kylo Ren and it'll be as he dies.

Killing Han Solo is pretty much a rape the dog moment, long term. Both in universe (you just offed yourDad, who clearly loved you and had no hand in your pot of crazy) and meta (you killed Han Solo). Not sure that's reedemable.

I mean in-story, sure. It can be done. But meta? He offed Han Solo. Watchers are, bluntly, gonna wanna see Chewie rip his arms off and beat him to death with them,

[Riggswolfe]

My money is on Rey and Luke both going "beyond" Light and Dark side.  They'll take the 'Black and White' out of the Force - or so they'll claim.  Then, a few movies later, they'll show it was a slippery slope problem as she falls into the Dark Side.  We'll see her fall the way we should have seen Anakin - slowly and for all the 'right' reasons.  I think that will be in movies 10, 11 and 12.

That plot already played out in the EU, ironically with one of Han's sons in the books. It was dumb then, it'd be dumb now IMO.

[BobtheSomething]

5) I suspect Rey's gonna go dark side -- probably in Episode 2, after killing Ren -- who is a pretty shitty dark Jedi at the moment --  an Finn will train as a Jedi to get her back and after she curb stomps him, he'll bring her back Luke style. Only she'll probably survive.

I've seen this theory several times but I don't think it'll happen. I suspect if we get any redemption arc it will be with Kylo Ren and it'll be as he dies.

Killing Han Solo is pretty much a rape the dog moment, long term. Both in universe (you just offed yourDad, who clearly loved you and had no hand in your pot of crazy) and meta (you killed Han Solo). Not sure that's reedemable.

I mean in-story, sure. It can be done. But meta? He offed Han Solo. Watchers are, bluntly, gonna wanna see Chewie rip his arms off and beat him to death with them,

Nah, Han Solo was already pretty much done as a character.  Kylo just ended our suffering.

[Morat20]

Don't get me wrong. Having him die wasn't a bad move, story wise.

It's just not the sort of thing you can do a heel turn on easily, both story wise (killing your dad is pretty bad mojo) and meta wise.