The end is kinda nigh

[brellium]

Apocalypse Pig Redux: Last-Resort Resistance in Europe

Here’s a breaking news follow-up to my recent post on the discovery of resistance to colistin, the truly last last-resort antibiotic, in animals, meat and people in China. A research collaboration shared between George Washington University and the Statens Serum Institute and National Food Institute in Denmark is announcing today that they have found that same resistance factor in stored bacterial samples dating back as far as 2012.

Short version: That resistance to the very last-ditch antibiotic is already spreading globally.

I guess it's not too bad if this stuff has been in Europe for 3 years and we're just now noticing it.

But, god a fully immune version of E. coli?

[angry.bob]

But, god a fully immune version of E. coli?

Is not a problem.

If people don'r like antibiotic resistance bacteria, several things need to happen.

1) The meat animal industry needs to stop using low doses of antibiotics to enhance growth.
2) Kill people you know who don't finish antibiotic prescriptions down to the last pill.
3) Quarantine people against their will until they are cleared of any bacterial diseases.
4) Scour China off the planet with fire. The place is literally designed to breed horrible new diseases. Everything from population density, garbage problems, pollution problems, stupid population, and ridiculous sham of traditional medicine makes China a disease factory of a shithole.

[calapine]

2) Kill people you know who don't finish antibiotic prescriptions down to the last pill.

4) Scour China off the planet with fire. The place is literally designed to breed horrible new diseases. Everything from population density, garbage problems, pollution problems, stupid population, and ridiculous sham of traditional medicine makes China a disease factory of a shithole.

Bob....killing people really is your solution for everything!    

Replace "labyrinths" with "genocide" and you are that guy:

[schild]

I don't think /u/relevant_oglaf is a thing

Also, Bob's comment was missing "/India" next to China.

[Goreschach]

What's the probability that the world will end if pork becomes slightly more expensive?

I mean in places other than texas?

[apocrypha]

The US meat industry is a major culprit in the spread of antibiotic resistance. Not restricted to the US of course, but they're probably the worst atm.

http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2015/12/meat-industry-ignores-fda-health-experts-buys-more-antibiotics/

The main problem however is that there's no money to be made in developing new antibiotics. It takes 10+ years and $50m to get a product to market and it's useless in less than a decade because evolution. Far more profitable to find new Viagra analogues and diabetes drugs cos fatness ain't going away any time soon.

[jgsugden]

There is always a balance.  The harder you push things out of balance, the harder they'll eventually push back. 

[Yegolev]

Balance = Heat death of the universe

So, sure.

[apocrypha]

Death is a state of equilibrium, life is all about avoiding balance.

[Count Nerfedalot]

I'm with Schild on this one. India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and pretty much all of east and south Asia, and any part of Africa not currently crumbling into post apocalyptic rubble are dispensing multiple antibiotics to anyone and literally everyone who walks in to a hospital/clinic/pharmacy/aid center/whatever door.  You are almost guaranteed to catch something in any and all of their facilities if you have even a scratch on you much less a wound or compromised immune system or have surgery or give birth or something. Because keeping clean and sterile health facilities in countries where the vast majority of the population shits in a toilet of some kind and sometimes even washes their hands afterwards is hard and very expensive, but doing so in countries where a significant portion OF THE MEDICAL FACILITY EMPLOYEES still shit in the middle of the street and then track it in to work is truly impossible.  And as much as using human antibiotics to keep overcrowded and maltreated livestock marginally healthier so a few more of them survive long enough to be slaughtered does wonders for teaching bacteria to resist those antibiotics, it is NOTHING to doing the same thing with several billion humans over and over again for decades as they incubate actual human pathogens in their bodies.

[Chimpy]

The bigger issue with antibiotic use in livestock is that it is used more to induce growth than to stave off infection.

[Yegolev]

Warning: Yegolevism incoming.

The real question is, why do you motherfuckers need antibiotics?

Or: Eat healthy food, exercise, and lick doorknobs.  I'll leave some flowers on your graves.

[NowhereMan]

Antibiotics are pretty great for diseases like TB or those fun infections you can pick up post surgery with not fully healed wounds. The problem is people treating them as the equivalent to aspirin for when they've got a head cold.

[Shannow]

Antibiotics are pretty great for diseases like TB or those fun infections you can pick up post surgery with not fully healed wounds. The problem is people treating them as the equivalent to aspirin for when they've got a head cold.

Including doctors, who throw antibiotics at sick kids (actually, they are really throwing them at overly worried parents) like it's candy. Christ, my wife took my son to a dermatologist for his acne (dont get me started) and she prescribed a low level antibiotic to help treat it. WTF.
Called the doctors office the other day after my daughter had a cold and threw up the night before with a light fever, the nurse actually said just watch her and don't bring her in cause she's likely to catch something worse at the doctors office. Almost fell over from surprise.

About to go all 5 miles in the snow uphill on this thread.

[Yegolev]

I'll add that you really should stay out of hospitals and other medical facilities.

[01101010]

Well, you have to look at how our society thinks towards medications. We are inundated with commercial after commercial about talking (pestering) to your doctor about some pill to combat some illness. If you come back from the Dr without a script, then it is seen as a wasted trip. Unfortunately, the proliferation of antibiotics is just speeding up bacterial evolution - as long as drug development keeps ahead of it, then things will keep on trucking along.

I talked to my doctor flat out about avoiding prescriptions. Surprisingly, she was pretty supportive about it.

[HaemishM]

After years of going to a regional/corporate medical clinic for colds/sinus/flu/wellness check stuff, I caught a cold last week and decided to try a different clinic from a local hospital. It was the typical sore throat/stuffy sinuses/tiredness kind of thing. To my surprise, the doctor didn't offer me a dechadron shot and an antibiotic seconds after walking in the door. She didn't prescribe anything but rest and fluids saying that unless it was bacterial, antibiotics wouldn't help at all. I thanked her, paid my co-pay and went home.

That shit where they just shoot you up with a steroid and prescribe some unnecessary shit? That's called lollipop medicine and it's fucking idiotic. It's the "Stick a lollipop in the little ignoramuses mouth and send them on their way with a bill they don't need." It makes clinic and pharma corporations money but does fuckall for good health.

[01101010]

What really needs to happen is the doc's need to start putting codes on the prescriptions that tell the pharmacist to dispense placebos. Granted, that would lead to a whole lot of lawsuits and shit if they get discovered, but it would be an interesting macrostudy. 

[Lantyssa]

Just make the placebos use real but obscured names.  "Here's your di-hydrogen monoxide pill.  Take two a day with water."

[Selby]

I got a huge abscess in my sinus cavity due to a nasty sinus infection about 5 years ago that took 8 weeks to go away on its own. I also just had the killer flu and acquired an infection in my lungs that didn't go away on its own after 10 days so the doctor prescribed an antibiotic. That was good, our big boss got pneumonia at the same time I got sick (he sits across from me) and he's still out after 4 weeks and 2 hospital visits. Antibiotics have a place ;-)

But yeah, too many people want "something" when they're sick and doctors give antibiotics out a bit more than they should...

[01101010]

I got a huge abscess in my sinus cavity due to a nasty sinus infection about 5 years ago that took 8 weeks to go away on its own. I also just had the killer flu and acquired an infection in my lungs that didn't go away on its own after 10 days so the doctor prescribed an antibiotic. That was good, our big boss got pneumonia at the same time I got sick (he sits across from me) and he's still out after 4 weeks and 2 hospital visits. Antibiotics have a place ;-)

But yeah, too many people want "something" when they're sick and doctors give antibiotics out a bit more than they should...

Oh I fully concur. In a situation such as yours, by all means, antibiotics are needed. Sadly, we are not talking extremes... in fact, a lot of the time, people want antibiotics to take for everything...even viruses - which is where the problem begins with medicine.

[RhyssaFireheart]

When I went to the walk-in clinic at my doctor's last Friday, the physician offered me an inhaler, a short course of antibiotics and/or a steroid pack, which did I want?  I honestly said I have no idea; I'm so rarely sick that I have no clue what to do when it comes to being "offered" a course of treatment.  He ended up giving me all three, but that was to make sure the cough I had didn't turn into pneumonia, and to help finish clearing up the flu I had.  It all worked finally.

The husband goes to the walk-in clinic this morning because just about the time I'm getting better, he develops this ugly sounding wet cough.  Not bringing anything but, but he can't sleep obviously and it almost hurt me to hear him coughing.  This doctor says he's got an "8 week cough" and gives a script for narcotic laced cough medicine.  Husband gets that but he's having a hard time breathing through what feels like a lot of congestion in his lungs, emails doctor to say he thinks he needs something more, so doctor sends in scripts for antibiotics and steroids, same as what I had.

I can't decide if we're both doing it wrong or not.  Normally, I avoid even taking Tylenol or Advil unless I really need to.  Would taking antibiotics in these cases just be over-reaction or preventative?  I have no clue.

[Yegolev]

What really needs to happen is the doc's need to start putting codes on the prescriptions that tell the pharmacist to dispense placebos. Granted, that would lead to a whole lot of lawsuits and shit if they get discovered, but it would be an interesting macrostudy. 

Ah, but you see, prescribing antibiotics for a viral infection is basically a placebo.

[Yegolev]

For cough medicine, scotch can't be beaten.

[Riggswolfe]

For cough medicine, scotch can't be beaten.

My grandfather used to make cough medicine that was whiskey, honey, lemon and I think one other ingredient. It was a bit nasty tasting but damn if it didn't work.

[HaemishM]

The doctor explained it to me thusly - if you don't have the flu or some kind of bacterial infection, an antibiotic is absolutely worthless. Colds, sinus infections, non-pneumonia cough - it's rest and fluids. The steroids are just to give you an energy boost so you can go back to work, and the narcotic cough syrup is just to manage your symptoms so you can get rest without hacking up a lung. Neither will help you get better any quicker and often OTC stuff will do just about the same thing for less money.

[Gimfain]

The doctor explained it to me thusly - if you don't have the flu or some kind of bacterial infection, an antibiotic is absolutely worthless. Colds, sinus infections, non-pneumonia cough - it's rest and fluids. The steroids are just to give you an energy boost so you can go back to work, and the narcotic cough syrup is just to manage your symptoms so you can get rest without hacking up a lung. Neither will help you get better any quicker and often OTC stuff will do just about the same thing for less money.

I hope you misheard your doctor since influenza is a virus and therefore you would have to treat it with an antiviral drug.

[HaemishM]

I'm probably saying it wrong. She knew I likely didn't have the flu.

[Selby]

I can't decide if we're both doing it wrong or not.  Normally, I avoid even taking Tylenol or Advil unless I really need to.  Would taking antibiotics in these cases just be over-reaction or preventative?  I have no clue.

Similar to what Haemish said, if what you've got coming up isn't green and nasty, an antibiotic isn't going to help. With sinus infections I focus on lots of water, ibuprofen for pain, and Flonase or similar to dry out my sinus cavities and keep it from getting nasty in my lungs & stop the continued cycle of drainage. Keeps it from becoming severe bronchitis or pneumonia. I also do my best to get up early in the morning & go walking to cough as much up as possible.

For reference, I get sinus infections 4-5 times a year and I've had antibiotics to fight the after effects 3 times in 12 years.

[Goumindong]

For cough medicine, scotch can't be beaten.

My grandfather used to make cough medicine that was whiskey, honey, lemon and I think one other ingredient. It was a bit nasty tasting but damn if it didn't work.

Hot water[cinnamon/cloves etc are also common]. Its called a Hot Toddy. And properly made they're fantastic.

[Count Nerfedalot]

I can't decide if we're both doing it wrong or not.  Normally, I avoid even taking Tylenol or Advil unless I really need to.  Would taking antibiotics in these cases just be over-reaction or preventative?  I have no clue.

Similar to what Haemish said, if what you've got coming up isn't green and nasty, an antibiotic isn't going to help. With sinus infections I focus on lots of water, ibuprofen for pain, and Flonase or similar to dry out my sinus cavities and keep it from getting nasty in my lungs & stop the continued cycle of drainage. Keeps it from becoming severe bronchitis or pneumonia. I also do my best to get up early in the morning & go walking to cough as much up as possible.

For reference, I get sinus infections 4-5 times a year and I've had antibiotics to fight the after effects 3 times in 12 years.

To prevent sinus infections with high blood pressure I go the other way and use guaifenesin to get the sinuses to just drain already. That and a hot hot hot steamy shower till I'm wrinkled like a prune.
But whatever plague I caught last new year kicked my butt something awful so sometimes nothing works but time and lots and lots of rest.

[brellium]

I can't decide if we're both doing it wrong or not.  Normally, I avoid even taking Tylenol or Advil unless I really need to.  Would taking antibiotics in these cases just be over-reaction or preventative?  I have no clue.

Similar to what Haemish said, if what you've got coming up isn't green and nasty, an antibiotic isn't going to help. With sinus infections I focus on lots of water, ibuprofen for pain, and Flonase or similar to dry out my sinus cavities and keep it from getting nasty in my lungs & stop the continued cycle of drainage. Keeps it from becoming severe bronchitis or pneumonia. I also do my best to get up early in the morning & go walking to cough as much up as possible.

For reference, I get sinus infections 4-5 times a year and I've had antibiotics to fight the after effects 3 times in 12 years.

To prevent sinus infections with high blood pressure I go the other way and use guaifenesin to get the sinuses to just drain already. That and a hot hot hot steamy shower till I'm wrinkled like a prune.
But whatever plague I caught last new year kicked my butt something awful so sometimes nothing works but time and lots and lots of rest.

I got hit that that stupid thing in Middle School, and was out for a full month. To the fucking point that they were about to throw me into surgery to get the damn thing out. Dr's figured I probably had the thing for 9 months before they caught it (why the fuck do I just want to sleep all day?), and if it wasn't for a facial X-ray it would've been diagnosed as Mono.

I stopped with the antibiotics after college.

[Morat20]

I got hit that that stupid thing in Middle School, and was out for a full month. To the fucking point that they were about to throw me into surgery to get the damn thing out. Dr's figured I probably had the thing for 9 months before they caught it (why the fuck do I just want to sleep all day?), and if it wasn't for a facial X-ray it would've been diagnosed as Mono.

I stopped with the antibiotics after college.

My dad's been suffering with that for the last few years. They diagnosed it pretty quickly, but they couldn't kill it. It kept coming back. They finally widened his sinuses (I didn't ask for details, but my mental image has them basically using a combination roto-rooter and mouse head sander) and that's finally did it.

At the very least, he's not had one for six months which is a record for the last few years.

I sincerely hope to NEVER require that surgery. EVER.

[Trippy]

It's in the UK now:

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-35153795

[Yegolev]

Regarding sinus passages, my wife was looking at having a roto-rooter job done and one day her doc said maybe she would like to try this balloon thing which would open her sinus passages without the cutting, to which she basically replied why the fuck didn't you mention this first?  Anyway, I forget what it is called but it involves expanding the sinus passages with aforementioned balloon in order to crush the bones, followed by a blast of radio waves* which would prevent things from healing properly.  No blood, little pain, nearly immediate relief.

*May not be radio waves.