Warhammer: End Times - Vermintide

[Trippy]

http://www.vermintide.com/

First person co-op melee/shooter by Fatshark who specialize in making mediocre games in this genre (War of the Roses, War of the Vikings, etc.).

Currently in beta, releasing on October 23.

Some beta testers are streaming it on Twitch now.

[HaemishM]

Who does Games Workshop think is asking for this shit?

[Malakili]

"When will we get fully digital warhammer?"

"What's that, you want digital warhammer?  Ok, how about an FPS"

 

[Falconeer]

Someone said it won a "Best in Show" recently at some major convention. It doesn't even lok bad though, seems like Left 4 Dead in the Warhammer world. Or FPS Mordheim.

[Trippy]

The awards are on the Steam page (scroll down, they are on the right side):

http://store.steampowered.com/app/235540/

[Megrim]

I genuinely think that no-one at GW actually understands what video games are. It's like they are Neanderthals, trying to make a car go. They can figure out that if they push it, it'll roll in one direction. But the rest remains a mystery.

[Hoax]

This is 100% L4D with a WH wrapper, so much so that I can't believe it didn't need the ok from Valve ahead of time. When other party members (there are 4 total) were offscreen you saw an outline of them glowing through terrain, exactly like L4D. They all talk constantly, like L4D but its all neckbeard gibberish. There literally appeared to be normal skaven and skaven that mattered and were a threat (I saw a Rat Ogre which was basically just a tank and an Assassin that acted just like the dudes that jump on you, he literally jumped on a player and slashed him up). This was Chinese levels of rip off.

[Azazel]

Who does Games Workshop think is asking for this shit?

Why ddo you think GW has any involvement in this besides "sure, we'll licence it to you!"?

[Azazel]

I genuinely think that no-one at GW actually understands what video games are. It's like they are Neanderthals, trying to make a car go. They can figure out that if they push it, it'll roll in one direction. But the rest remains a mystery.

Again. GW don't make videogames. They don't even consider their tabletop games important anymore. They're really all about models and collectors these days (and have been for years). This isn't internet sour grapes or anything like that, either. It's well-documented and they're quite open about it at shareholders' meeting, etc.

I don't understand how so many people who actually know who GW are manage to think that GW have some hand in the creative side of their easily licenced games. Like GW is actually making them. FFS!  

[Falconeer]

That seems to be true to a degree. For example, in the past they seemed to have very strong restrictions in place about what you could do with one of their licenses or not. That is what everyone used to know.

Now, looks like things have changed a lot and they have loosened up. The French company making the Blood Bowl games for example have been able to basically change the rules and make up teams of their own, which would have probably been unthinkable in the past, but Blood Bowl is a dead game for GW as it's officially out of production so it's obvious they don't care much. Similarly, the people making the Mordheim game have been granted permission to alter the rules of the game, but they often state in their communication to the community that there are a good amount of restrictions placed by GW that they have to work with, about the setting and the lore.

So, I'd say that we all come from the old notion that they were draconic about their licenses. And even though they have changed a lot, seems like they are now selectively granting permission for something but not something else. Clearly, money play a part in all that.

[HaemishM]

I don't understand how so many people who actually know who GW are manage to think that GW have some hand in the creative side of their easily licenced games. Like GW is actually making them. FFS!  

Someone at GW has to be responsible for actually signing off on these things regardless of whether they have any hand in the creative side. You don't just sign over a brand and let the dev company make whatever they want. That's how you end up with Wood Elf Tentacle Pr0n games. GW not giving a shit what the games are? That I can easily believe just by looking at the copious amounts of utter shit they are producing. What I mean is that somewhere there has to be a brand manager or marketing guy there who has brought up the whole "this is such shit it could actually damage our brand" argument for why NOT to do something. Of course, maybe there isn't because if there was, you'd think he'd be able to look at some this shit and go "Let's not do that."

[Rendakor]

Wood Elf Tentacle Pr0n

Now that's a GW licensed game I would play!

[Yegolev]

Well... I suppose it depends on the artwork.

[Threash]

I don't understand how so many people who actually know who GW are manage to think that GW have some hand in the creative side of their easily licenced games. Like GW is actually making them. FFS!  

Someone at GW has to be responsible for actually signing off on these things regardless of whether they have any hand in the creative side. You don't just sign over a brand and let the dev company make whatever they want. That's how you end up with Wood Elf Tentacle Pr0n games. GW not giving a shit what the games are? That I can easily believe just by looking at the copious amounts of utter shit they are producing. What I mean is that somewhere there has to be a brand manager or marketing guy there who has brought up the whole "this is such shit it could actually damage our brand" argument for why NOT to do something. Of course, maybe there isn't because if there was, you'd think he'd be able to look at some this shit and go "Let's not do that."

Right, there is a reason this is a L4D rip off and not a digital version of the tabletop game like people have been asking for since computers became a thing.  And it is sure as fuck not because GW doesn't control what kind of games get made.

[Azazel]

I don't understand how so many people who actually know who GW are manage to think that GW have some hand in the creative side of their easily licenced games. Like GW is actually making them. FFS!  

Someone at GW has to be responsible for actually signing off on these things regardless of whether they have any hand in the creative side. You don't just sign over a brand and let the dev company make whatever they want. That's how you end up with Wood Elf Tentacle Pr0n games. GW not giving a shit what the games are? That I can easily believe just by looking at the copious amounts of utter shit they are producing. What I mean is that somewhere there has to be a brand manager or marketing guy there who has brought up the whole "this is such shit it could actually damage our brand" argument for why NOT to do something. Of course, maybe there isn't because if there was, you'd think he'd be able to look at some this shit and go "Let's not do that."

It's pretty simple, actually. As long as they avoid tentacle Pr0n, GW really don't give a shit. They're 100% driven by businessmen and yes-men at this point in time. Not people who play games. As long as money comes in and the licencees display a respect for the IP (which might be different to what you or I consider "Respect"), they don't care. They don't make videogames. They make models. If others want to licence their IP to make other games, or versions of their older games BUT NO WARHAMMER MODELS then that's fine. It's why Talisman has generic fantasy models but Relic has 40k busts instead of miniatures.

Damage their brand? They just exploded the WHFB world to reboot it into space islands with SigMarines. They've OKed all manner of shitty iOS games and licenced all of their old boardgames out to anyone who'll pay them.

Right, there is a reason this is a L4D rip off and not a digital version of the tabletop game like people have been asking for since computers became a thing.  And it is sure as fuck not because GW doesn't control what kind of games get made.

They do not want computer games to "compete" with their tabletop games. Modern GW is happy to allow Total Warhammer in the wake of AoS. They have exactly two sacred cows: Tabletop-clone 40k and AoS. Anything else is fair game.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/254650/

I mean, you can argue and wail and gnash your teeth all you like about the videogames that "GW makes", but you're just categorically wrong. They licence their IP - devs/pubs come to them because they want to make a card game about space marines - they are not a publisher who seeks out devs to make their games. They do not give a fuck about the type of game. If you think they have a hand in making them, then 

Seriously. Go read an annual report from the past few years. They don't consider themselves a games company at this point in time. They're a model company. They make collectable models for collectors, not gamers. They believe that most of their customers are collectors and not gamers. All of that is explicitly communicated in their annual reports.

Then tell me why you think they have an active hand in "making" a FPS starring skaven, or give two shits about it? 

[HaemishM]

I didn't say an "active hand." I said that they have SOMEONE, even if it's just Cliff in the fucking basement, SOMEONE there looks at the cockspit the 3rd party devs are shitting out like a prize hen and says, "Yep, we're ok with that." Which means either they have the absolute dumbfuckiest dumbfucks in marketing that have ever dumbed a fuck (a scenario I believe is true) or truly give no fucks (which is also a believable scenario). This means they are really really fucking bad at business and are truly making money in spite of their best efforts.

I'm pretty sure Age of Sigmar proves that just as well as any of these shit video games they are licensing.

[Azazel]

Who does Games Workshop think is asking for this shit?

So you kinda changed your argument from what was implied in the initial post. As I've said in every post, they don't give a fuck. Pay us, bitches.
They've already got "damage our brand" down pretty well pat internally, as you might have noticed, and care very little.

[Falconeer]

At the moment, meaning only counting games that are still alive and are already available, there's 26 videogames officially licensed by GW. Not even countng Vermintide.

http://licensing.games-workshop.com/video-games/


 

[March]

At the moment, meaning only counting games that are still alive and are already available, there's 26 videogames officially licensed by GW. Not even countng Vermintide.

http://licensing.games-workshop.com/video-games/

 

26 games no one wants, but not the one game everyone wants.

[Trippy]

Pre-order with 1 week head start available now:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/235540/

GMG has a coupon for 25% off: GMGMID-SEASON-25PERC

[ezrast]

I picked this up to play with a friend. If you liked Left 4 Dead but wished it was mostly melee instead of mostly shooting then this is the game for you, I guess? First person melee combat works about as well as it does in any other game, which is to say adequate but not great.

There are five classes, but the only really interesting one is the Bright Wizard - they cast spells that build up heat, and have to spend health to vent heat once it builds past a certain point if they want to keep casting. Otherwise classes are just differentiated by the weapons they have available. Witch Hunter and Waywatcher have stronger ranged options while Ranger and Soldier have shields and heavy weapons that serve as crowd control. There's an RNG gear grind but uggh who even cares anymore.

Much like the Dragon Age: Inquisition multiplayer, it's not un-fun but mostly because I have a friend to play with. Vermintide is definitely less shitty than the DA multiplayer in terms of craftsmanship, though I don't know if that will translate to long-term stickiness.

[Trippy]

This game is hard.

[Draegan]

I managed to play one game so far. I enjoyed it.

[Falconeer]

Just picked it up. Having lot of fun.

It's Left 4 Dead but with loot and some character progression. My only gripe is that somehow melee doesn't feel precise or visceral as I'd like it, but other than that it's just GREAT with a bunch of friends. Beats me why there isn't a 4-pack, but I'll probably convince my buddies to get it anyway. Either that, or I'll leave it alone soon. It IS cool, but I can't see myself caring too much unless I can play it with people I love to laugh with. It is a great co-op game, deserves to be played with humans you like.

[Azazel]

And on the argument I was having with Haemish, et al:

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/256220/QA_Why_Games_Workshop_is_shaking_up_how_it_works_with_licensees.php

[jakonovski]

Games Workshop is actively trying to set the game part of their business on fire, so is it any wonder they have neither the capability nor motivation to take a critical eye to licensed products. I just hope that someone manages to do a turn based 40k rpg before the company eventually goes under.

[HaemishM]

That interviewer was a fucking idiot. He didn't ask the one question anyone given the chance should ask GW - why haven't you translated your most popular tabletop games to video games with DLC?

[jakonovski]

They're deathly afraid that if someone produces a virtual simulacrum of a GW miniatures game, people will stop buying miniatures. Which is weird because these days they consider their customers collectors, not gamers.

[Teleku]

Yeah, I really don't know how much it would impact their miniatures sales.  People who actually take the time to spend hundreds/thousands of dollars building an army, assembling it, and painting it, probably aren't going to stop doing that.  They are obviously really into that hobby.  The majority of the people who would play a PC version of the game are people who don't want to do that, so aren't currently playing their game at all.

But yeah, I skimmed the whole article just to see if they asked the most obvious question.  Clown shoes.

[Falconeer]

Interestingly enough, turns out that Blood Bowl has never been as popular as now, and that's probably thanks to the videogame considering that GW put it out of production a few years back. The World Cup (which is taking place next week in Italy of all places) is the most participated ever with almost 900 players from all over the world gathering there to play a dead and discontinued tabletop game.

http://www.thenaf.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/World-Cup-2515-Rules-Pack.pdf

Anyway, as everyone else is saying, Games Workshop's fears seem totally unjustified. If anything, the videogame could expand the interest for the miniature game even more, certainly not harm it.

[Xuri]

Arise, thread! ARISE!

Picked up this game along with three friends on Sunday, and we've been playing it co-op every evening since, playing through all the missions together (not playing the new ones solo, to keep the coop experience fresh) and having great fun! As one of the (somewhat jaded) guys in the group said: "I haven't stuck with one game for this long in many years". We've been through almost all the missions at least once, and I can see myself tiring of it eventually once we start grinding the same missions over and over on different difficulty levels, but I've gotten my money's worth so far.

I've played one class exclusively throughout this entire experience, as the other guys in the group have, so I guess there's some element of re-playability with different classes for me later. I ended up with the Waywatcher, and the rest of the group consists of the Witch Hunter, Bright Wizard and Empire Soldier. No one wants to play the Dwarf Ranger, since he's so short...

Can definitely recommend this game for people with friends! For everyone else... well.. I guess you have to brave the waters of random, online matchmaking. Which can probably be compared to every other online matchmaking service in existence, in that you will encounter players who either accidentally or purposely ruin your gaming experience. :X

[tar]

I've been curious about this one - how playable do you think it would be with just 2-person co-op?

[Xuri]

Still okay I reckon, you'll have two AI companions though, who can be a bit... er... dense at times? :P But if you keep moving forward, they'll teleport to your location to keep up. Unless they get caught by some special mobs heh. I play it solo a bit, with three AI companions, and it's passable, but not as fun as when playing alongside a real person - especially while on voice chat.

"PACK! WARGHBLARGH! MMFHPH! Help! He's got me!"

"Assasblrpppggggggh! Eeeee! Come baaackkkkk!"

[tar]

Ah, quite like L4D then, thanks!