How To Park Your Car And How Not To Park Your Car + Red Barchetta Makes Sense

[Merusk]

A friend of mine gave me a lift last week in his mercedes which has automatic parallel parking; being in the car while it parked itself, with his hands off the wheel was a pretty spooky experience. The car did a damn good job of it though.

Back when I first learned to parallel park I wondered why nobody had made a car yet that would just execute the correct sequence of steps at the push of a button.  Glad somebody finally got off their butt.

Finally? This tech is so old it was on the 2012 Ford Focus, not just luxury cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-rxJkVzUxI

Luxury cars are now self-driving, not just self-parking. Here's a vid of the 2014 Mercedes doing just that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShYLRus6RTg

The future is now, fuckers.

[Samwise]

Bah, Henry Ford coulda done it with 1920s technology and a modicum of mechanical cleverness (minus the car being able to notice the spot on its own).  It's just a matter of steering and moving backward at certain angles and ratios, and you can do that just by putting gears together in the right order.  But I guess parallel parking wasn't a big thing back then.  Still no excuse for it to have taken as long as it did given how many people are terrible at doing it themselves.

I for one look forward to the entire activity of driving being automated away, though.

[ezrast]

My baby nephew and yet-unborn niece are going to go through all of high school without being subject to hours of gore porn videos in the name of driver's education. That's a nice thought.

[Strazos]

Is it though?

I'm not looking forward to the day when we're all in automated cars, unless I still have the option to drive manually.

[Cyrrex]

I think it has to be everybody in automated cars, or nobody in automated cars.  Or maybe it will be tollways/freeways that are automated, and all other places require manual control.

Honestly, I think it will NEVER happen.  I suspect most people want to drive their own vehicles for any number of reasons, but mainly because they like to be in control. 

[ezrast]

What? Self-driving cars are already on the road, and of course you can take over manually. There's no way manual control is going away altogether before the current generation of adults is too dead to vote.

[KallDrexx]

I'm looking forward to the days I rarely have to drive and can just let the car deal with awful traffic around town.

[Khaldun]

My guess would be that there will be manual control of vehicles on rural roads for a long time to come, because I am wagering that there are going to be redundancy systems on crowded urban/suburban roadways intended to coordinate automatic-driving vehicle traffic flow and make it overall safer. Plus inasmuch as a "it is pleasurable to drive your own car under your own control" survives as an idea, it's likely to survive in relationship to road trips/visiting interesting or beautiful sites away from it all.

On the whole, I think automated driving is going to be a good thing, but it's a pretty classic example of how we're not thinking at all yet about what happens to the very large number of people who will no longer have jobs as a result (I strongly suspect that one corollary of self-driving cars is that we're not going to be owning cars individually any longer). Or what it will mean to have that much more control over the mobility of people--if we haven't solved the problem of government surveillance and intrusion on privacy by then, this will make it much much worse. But on the plus side: vastly fewer deaths and injuries from cars; no drunken driving; probably much less traffic congestion (self-driving cars could be on crowded roads in much much more volume but at high speeds than now--we can't pack in as much and go as fast because we don't have good enough reaction time and we're prone to letting our psychology mess up efficient traffic flows).

[NowhereMan]

The whole idea that we'll move on from mostly owning cars is something that perhaps only really applies to US style cities with large suburban areas where the requirement for cars is more related to needing them for daily commutes/weekly shops. In many European cities with a denser urban footprint a lot of that need is handled by public transportation already. Outside suburban areas where there is a semi-dense population (and therefore likely enough cars to be on call fairly reliably) you run into the problem of needing long wait times or quite a largue ratio of cars to be able to service people.

Really it sounds like self-driving cars is getting viewed as a predominantly US centric view where you really need an alternative to public transportation due to all the suburbs. It would probably help reduce congestion in the rest of the world but I know when I had a car it was pretty much only for long distance trips where I'd need it for at least 2 or 3 days once or twice a month. In terms of environmental urban planning I think we're still at a stage where a well designed public transport infrastructure would be better than self-driving cars for all, especially since we'd need like 80% of those cars during rush hour and they'd spend the rest of the day parked and not being used.

[KallDrexx]

Interestingly enough, self driving cars may not actually reduce congestion in some cities but actually increase it.

There was a study a while ago that if you followed the road laws (speed limit, distance between vehicles, etc...) in Atlanta traffic would actually be worse because they couldn't handle the number of the cars on the road during peak times without everyone closer together and going faster. 

[Samwise]

Interestingly enough, self driving cars may not actually reduce congestion in some cities but actually increase it.

There was a study a while ago that if you followed the road laws (speed limit, distance between vehicles, etc...) in Atlanta traffic would actually be worse because they couldn't handle the number of the cars on the road during peak times without everyone closer together and going faster.  

Even from the very early prototypes of self driving tech, it's been pretty clear that we'll want to give the robots their own traffic laws.  It turns out they're REALLY good at driving very close together and at very high speeds as long as they can talk to each other (and they're also really good at making quick corrections in the face of unexpected problems).  That'd be the argument for setting aside "automated driving" lanes -- you get higher density/speed in those lanes as long as you don't let any humans in to muck it up.

[Sky]

There are a lot of assumptions when it comes to automated driving. The most glaring one to me is 'everyone needs an automated car', so all vintage cars become illegal (my uncle has a country place, that noone knows about).

The other is, even with all cars now being automated, few people properly maintain their vehicles.

And accidents would become epic.

I'm all for cleaning up the shitty drivers and not having to drive long distances, but I'd rather see some kind of highway setup where you get on some automated freight kinda carrier thing at the onramp and select your offramp and let the automation take you there. For short distances and around town, I enjoy driving (as well as the old trip up into the mountains to just drive).

[Viin]

I would bet we start seeing "automation only" lanes in the next 8-10 years. Many HOV/Express lanes are already set up to easily adapt to something like that.

[Merusk]

There are a lot of assumptions when it comes to automated driving. The most glaring one to me is 'everyone needs an automated car', so all vintage cars become illegal (my uncle has a country place, that noone knows about).

The other is, even with all cars now being automated, few people properly maintain their vehicles.

And accidents would become epic.

I'm all for cleaning up the shitty drivers and not having to drive long distances, but I'd rather see some kind of highway setup where you get on some automated freight kinda carrier thing at the onramp and select your offramp and let the automation take you there. For short distances and around town, I enjoy driving (as well as the old trip up into the mountains to just drive).

Maintenance is a good point. People don't update drivers on their computers. Firmware updates that aren't over a free-access public wi-fi/ mobile signal on a car? Ha.

There's all kinds of ethical problems that need to be resolved for driverless vehicles, too. A car just crossed the lane and is coming right at you. The curb has pedestrians you'll hit, the other lanes have cars you'll hit. Do you take the head-on collision or hit the other cars?

Your vehicle has hit a rough spot and is going to crash, where does it aim and what's the logic for preservation of the passenger vs. property damage.

Black people aren't recognized well on cameras due to dark skin and white people writing the software. How do you account for this to avoid accidents when the camera thought nobody was there.

The Atlantic did a nice piece on it 2 years ago that's still fairly relevant, though I think they fixed the "stick in the road" problem. If not, road debris is a pretty common occurrence, from semi truck tires splitting and flailing about to bags drifting on the highway and dumbasses who forget to close car carriers and spew clothes everywhere.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/10/the-ethics-of-autonomous-cars/280360/

Also last I read automated cars can't handle snow/ ice at all right now. That's why they're testing in so. cal and other warm climates. They'll get there but it's proving quite a bit trickier than they thought.

[Shannow]

They just opened a open test facility in Michigan in part to have a location in a cold weather climate.

I'm excited for automatic driving. Fuck my commute I want to sleep some more. Less accidents, better handling of congestion, less time on road, more time at work, productivity goes up, etc etc (that or the f13 board view of this will be 'we are spending more time at work and getting paid less fuck our capitalist overlords').

Fly or drive to Florida in 2025? Why spend the dollars to fly when I can program the car and sleep for large chunks of its?

Hrrm 4 hour drive or 4 hours travelling to airport/layovers etc...I'll program the car for it! Of course then that may raise congestion , however I'll bet we'll have some enterprising people launch ride sharing apps to match groups of people with destinations.

You'll have the option for manual control however the premiums on your insurance will SUCK! I predict a large surge in lawyers who specialize in 'you can't determine whether the car was under computer or human control at the exact moment of the crash can you officer?' cases.

Maybe none of it will really ever come to fruition but it's exciting to think of all the possibilities and outcomes of it.

[Sky]

A black box would tell the precise moment of everything.

Though I'm happy to live in the frigidish north where we still get 4 seasons that will hopefully some day again begin to weed out the weak.

I prefer to drive on vacation and take the backroads and explore. My fiancee hates back roads (she apparently has an inability to see speed limit signs) and loves the highway.

[Yegolev]

My experience with navigation tools makes me wary of complete automation.  Parking is probably OK, though.

[Sky]

My experience with Vehicle Stability Control in the winter makes me very wary of taking control out of my hands. The intent is to reduce rollover at high speeds by cutting power to the engine when it detects wheel spin.

However, pulling out into an intersection in the winter and losing all power to the engine and being powerless to do anything about it?

Absolutely the scariest thing that has ever happened to me while driving, worse than taking my old '73 muscle car into a field because I took a corner too fast. At least I could've corrected for the turn.

No thanks, robots.

[Yegolev]

To take the devil's side: if you realize that you're not driving a car, but rather you're piloting a robot, you realize that the old rules do not apply anymore.  In this case, I'm not sure how you specifially need to tell your robot to carefully start rolling onto the ice sheet, since they are all different.

[Trippy]

My experience with Vehicle Stability Control in the winter makes me very wary of taking control out of my hands. The intent is to reduce rollover at high speeds by cutting power to the engine when it detects wheel spin.

However, pulling out into an intersection in the winter and losing all power to the engine and being powerless to do anything about it?

That's not actually how those systems work.

[MahrinSkel]

And I've done some stupid-crazy things with cars that had good traction control, that I never would have been able to get away with in a normal car. Stuff like doing 70 MPH on chunky ice on the interstate, blowing past people doing 30 that were just barely maintaining control. Passing the snowplows on a mountain pass, perfectly in control under conditions that would have had me spinning loops all the way off the road and down the cliff. Hitting deep water and hydroplaning, and undramatically being slowed to a manageable speed by water resistance.

If you're losing all acceleration at an intersection, either your traction control system was really cheap shit, or you're on glare ice and the alternative to no power is spinning your wheels with no steering control until you hit something.

--Dave

[Sky]

My experience with Vehicle Stability Control in the winter makes me very wary of taking control out of my hands. The intent is to reduce rollover at high speeds by cutting power to the engine when it detects wheel spin.

However, pulling out into an intersection in the winter and losing all power to the engine and being powerless to do anything about it?

That's not actually how those systems work.

Sorry I'm not a mechanic. http://www.toyota.com.au/fj-cruiser/features/safety/stability-control

The gist of it is, when I pull out from a stop sign in winter, the wheels often do not turn. That's bad, Mr Smarty pants.

In the 09 and later there is a switch to turn it off because Toyota realized it was only meant for higher speed situations. But my dealer won't install one in my 08. Still have 6 months on the warranty, and a cutoff switch for VSC is the first thing being installed.

[MisterNoisy]

My experience with Vehicle Stability Control in the winter makes me very wary of taking control out of my hands. The intent is to reduce rollover at high speeds by cutting power to the engine when it detects wheel spin.

However, pulling out into an intersection in the winter and losing all power to the engine and being powerless to do anything about it?

That's not actually how those systems work.

Sorry I'm not a mechanic. http://www.toyota.com.au/fj-cruiser/features/safety/stability-control

The gist of it is, when I pull out from a stop sign in winter, the wheels often do not turn. That's bad, Mr Smarty pants.

In the 09 and later there is a switch to turn it off because Toyota realized it was only meant for higher speed situations. But my dealer won't install one in my 08. Still have 6 months on the warranty, and a cutoff switch for VSC is the first thing being installed.

My Gen Coupe had a super-aggressive TCS setup too - whenever it kicked in, it felt like something had broken.  Fortunately, the button to disable it was right on the dash.

[Sky]

Since the thread is kinda veering off target....

My platinum badass warranty is up in November. I've barely used it (but if I'd have needed it, I'm glad I had it, no ragrets). Taking the old lady's car to the dealer for service in a couple days and I want to talk to the service department about doing a big service on the FJ, mostly to milk what I can from the warranty but also because she's a 7 year old lady and wants some attention (37500 on her and I mostly baby her).

I'm going to get new tires and the incremental service, so the dealer is already making dough on the visit and the old lady will probably buy a prius soon; so I'm about in as good a situation as I could be for convincing them to give me a deal on some warranty milking.

Anyone have any advice on getting blood from a stone?

[rattran]

Toyota pretty much told me that anything that wasn't mechanically faulty wasn't covered by the warrantee, so good luck there. That said, I've just turned 127k on my '08 and it's still doing great, all I've replaced are tires, wipers and filters. This winter will be when all the major stuff gets done. Tune up, brakes, the sealed atf fluid, etc.

And I like backing into spaces, partly for the ease of leaving, partly because it scares people I park next to.

[Chimpy]

Since the thread is kinda veering off target....

My platinum badass warranty is up in November. I've barely used it (but if I'd have needed it, I'm glad I had it, no ragrets). Taking the old lady's car to the dealer for service in a couple days and I want to talk to the service department about doing a big service on the FJ, mostly to milk what I can from the warranty but also because she's a 7 year old lady and wants some attention (37500 on her and I mostly baby her).

I'm going to get new tires and the incremental service, so the dealer is already making dough on the visit and the old lady will probably buy a prius soon; so I'm about in as good a situation as I could be for convincing them to give me a deal on some warranty milking.

Anyone have any advice on getting blood from a stone?

Warranties pretty much never cover anything not broken (or throwing up a warning in the onboard computer) no matter how much they charge you for them.

[Sky]

Toyota pretty much told me that anything that wasn't mechanically faulty wasn't covered by the warrantee, so good luck there. That said, I've just turned 127k on my '08 and it's still doing great, all I've replaced are tires, wipers and filters.

I figured as much, but the question unasked...

I'm about to put the first new set of tires on it. Otherwise it's been a champ. Really wanted to trade it in for a '14, though. Got shot down by the fiancee :( Frame is better on the first 2 years of the line, though.

[Viin]

Warranty does cover items that break/wear down before "spec". So it's good to have them do a service job before the warranty expires - you will at least have the opportunity to have any replacement parts paid for by warranty. But, unless you know something is broken or not working, they aren't likely to find anything that needs replacing. It'll just be the normal wear and tear items that aren't covered by the warranty.

[Selby]

Warranties pretty much never cover anything not broken (or throwing up a warning in the onboard computer) no matter how much they charge you for them.

Yeah, I ate a set of rear bearings and had to have the complete brake system redone on my 2010 Prius while it was still under warranty.  Dealer wouldn't even acknowledge that there was a warranty, sure cost a lot...