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KallDrexx
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on: April 03, 2015, 07:20:08 AM

I am about to start laying out a gigabit ethernet network in my house.  I know how I am going to route the wires everywhere except to the main distribution point (my laundry room).  Right now I am putting 3 4jack drops in my house, meaning there are going to be 12 cat5e cables coming into the distribution point for now.  I'm looking at several options:

1) Have all the wires come in through the walls through the Joists into a framing cell.  Then I can install a 2 gang low voltage old work box with 2 6 jack wall plate, use that as a built in patch panel of sorts and connect them to my gigabit switch.
2) Cut a 2" circular hole in the drywall, fit it with a grommet, and have the wires come down from within the frame cell into the room via the hole.  They'd go directly into a wall mounted 12 port patch panel right below it, which would then feed the gigabit switch.  
3) Install a 90 degree bend conduit in the ceiling (inside the room but against the wall), and use that to pipe the wires from the attic into the room, into the pathc panel, then into the switch

#2 seems to leave a giant hole in the wall, which mayy not be a big deal but seems a bit wierd to me.  #3 means I have to somehow seal the ceiling around the conduit somehow (and try to make it not look like a giant random pipe in the room, which is probably just painting it I guess).  The 3rd option seems the cleanest but I'm not sure if there is some flaw in that idea either.

Anyone that has done this before has any thoughts?

*Edit* Damnit, meant to post this in general, sorry :(
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 07:35:12 AM by KallDrexx »
01101010
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Reply #1 on: April 03, 2015, 07:33:23 AM

I like #3 simply for the number of cables you are going to have in that single area. You can always fashion a collar for the pipe to tidy up the ceiling entry point. It is cleaner to run the cables down inside the wall, but 12 wires exiting would be a bit chaotic.

The most I have done is to wire up 3 rooms and ran those through a port in the floor that originally served the coax line to the room. I had the convenience of running the cables through the crawlspace and hung them from the floor joists with cable hooks. 3 cables wasn't too bad, but it did create a hydra kind of look coming out of the floor. Luckily it was covered by the desk.

For entry point ideas (cables coming into the room), I'd check around the interwebs for ideas on how coax and stereo wiring is done. Some guys I knew that worked as HT installers back in my time at Best Buy got really creative with some higher end projects and were really good about finish work.

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Pennilenko
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Reply #2 on: April 03, 2015, 08:08:52 AM

I am about to start laying out a gigabit ethernet network in my house.

You'll shoot your eye out kid.

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KallDrexx
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Reply #3 on: April 03, 2015, 08:13:26 AM

Probably, but YOLO
sam, an eggplant
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Reply #4 on: April 03, 2015, 09:58:46 AM

Run the wires through the wall inside a conduit. ALWAYS use conduits, and leave strong fishing lines threaded through each one. That way you can easily make changes later on.
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Reply #5 on: April 03, 2015, 10:15:16 AM

Run the wires through the wall inside a conduit. ALWAYS use conduits, and leave strong fishing lines threaded through each one. That way you can easily make changes later on.

Conduits are a good rule, but not completely necessary especially if you are limited in access and don't want to tear your walls up any more than you have to.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
KallDrexx
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Reply #6 on: April 03, 2015, 10:20:18 AM

Run the wires through the wall inside a conduit. ALWAYS use conduits, and leave strong fishing lines threaded through each one. That way you can easily make changes later on.

So when you say that I assume you mean the conduit takes the wires through the joists and inside the wall, or do you mean to use a conduit to expose the wires from inside the wall to the actual room?

I rarely see conduits mentioned in things I have read/watched, and the Uverse installer definitely didn't use a conduit when installing my internet. 
Chimpy
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Reply #7 on: April 03, 2015, 10:28:32 AM

Buy a wall mount patch panel to put in the laundry room (I bought a pretty nice one for like 20 bucks on Amazon) and then patch to the switch as needed.


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KallDrexx
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Reply #8 on: April 03, 2015, 10:33:52 AM

I have a surface mounted wall mount patch panel (I bought before I thought of doing #1) but I'm still not sure about getting the wires through teh ceiling or wall cleanly to the patch panel.  Unless I"m misunderstanding and you mean one that's recessed in the wall.
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Reply #9 on: April 03, 2015, 11:22:17 AM

Glad I didn't have this problem because everythings in the basement. It comes out the sill plate and  runs through joists. Nobody sees it.  Heh.

As far as the options for finishing it out - which what you're concerned about - I'd go with the ganged boxes as it will be more work but will have the most finished appearance.

With the grommet you're going to have a really large hole in your ceiling or wall with wires jutting out of it. Yes, that will look weird and unfinished to you and your wife will complain about it. Hell, I'd complain about it. Not to mention since it's in the laundry room you'll get lint from the dryer all over the place and they'll look awful within a month or two.

The pipe will be an even larger hole than you think it will be.  Take 12 ethernet cables and hold them in your hand.  That's a fairly sizable bundle. Now know that you'll need an additional inch or so to get them around a 90" bend and still have room to pull the last few through once you have the first few run.  It would not be  fun.


Run the wires through the wall inside a conduit. ALWAYS use conduits, and leave strong fishing lines threaded through each one. That way you can easily make changes later on.

Conduits are a good rule, but not completely necessary especially if you are limited in access and don't want to tear your walls up any more than you have to.

Yeah, that.  If you're tearing the drywall out already, by all means go for it. Otherwise you're adding additional time & expense to the project for no really good reason.  It's low voltage, not electrical and if you have to re-pull down the line, you pull with the existing wire.


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sam, an eggplant
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Reply #10 on: April 03, 2015, 12:25:32 PM

I read it as new construction, as it's a ton of wiring-- if this is existing construction then yeah, just drop through the walls and deal with fishing it out.
KallDrexx
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Reply #11 on: April 03, 2015, 01:45:09 PM

Yeah existing construction, not new construction
ajax34i
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Reply #12 on: April 03, 2015, 01:45:23 PM

Run coaxial cable too, for TV in each room.  And phone.
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Reply #13 on: April 03, 2015, 02:23:22 PM

You can run all of those off the cat5.

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Reply #14 on: April 03, 2015, 02:36:08 PM

I was assuming the room you are putting the patch panel in was unfinished. Just put a piece of 1/2" plywood on the wall and attach the patch panel to that.

If it is already finished then you could put a couple switch boxes in the wall and then put keystone jacks on the ends and use the faceplates like a patch panel. That would keep the wires running through the walls enclosed.

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Reply #15 on: April 03, 2015, 03:43:46 PM

In all seriousness: Go with plan 1. It's not elegant, but trying to over-engineer this with conduit and all the rest of it is just asking for more pain when something goes wrong and you're trying to figure out how to patch the 3 foot hole you just opened in your wall. You're already over-building with four cables to each drop point (rather than one and then a switch). You don't need conduit for low-voltage wires unless you're trying to go a long distance, trying to install it inside of existing walls is just making the simple complicated with no significant benefit (if you need to change those cables, you can use the existing ones for your fishtape, and would it *ever* make more sense to add more cables than to simply put a switch on one of the existing ones?).

If you really want to have the switch somewhere accessible without crawling around in insulation (or don't want to have a power supply operating where it could start a fire without being noticed) find a closet or a cupboard that goes all the way to the ceiling, put it in there.

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Miguel
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Reply #16 on: April 03, 2015, 04:42:36 PM

Run more wires than you think you will need:  while going through the pain of fishing Cat5 through headers, etc, put in a few spares while you are there.  Then if one goes south you can switch to a new one without too much pain.

Also, if I understand correctly, a single GigE link utilizes two sets of twisted pairs, and Cat5 typically has 4 pairs.  So you can send two channels down a single wire with the correct adapters, yes?

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Logain
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Reply #17 on: April 04, 2015, 09:39:42 PM

Forget running wire. Wifi repeater over powerlines. http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Powerline-200Mbps-Access-XAVNB2001/dp/B0046SQ8VW
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 09:42:22 PM by Logain »
01101010
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Reply #18 on: April 05, 2015, 07:30:11 AM

Forget running wire. Wifi repeater over powerlines. http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Powerline-200Mbps-Access-XAVNB2001/dp/B0046SQ8VW

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Reply #19 on: April 05, 2015, 08:14:36 AM

I've been mulling over this exact problem for a while now. Currently we use powerline networking, and it's pretty good, but there's one part of our property that's a separate building on it's own ring main. Also our walls are 60cm thick and block wifi very effectively in places. Also the powerline caps out a long way short of gigbit ethernet.

I don't have anything useful to add to the thread, but I'm taking a lot in smiley

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KallDrexx
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Reply #20 on: April 05, 2015, 08:17:46 AM

Thanks for all the comments guys.  I realized I was over complicating things (especially since this is old construction project) so I started going with option number 1.  So far I have 2 out of 3 drops carved out (plus the drops at the distribution point), I have holes drilled to service both the distribution point and one of the drop points (the other apparently has 3 wall frame plates and my drill isn't long enough).  So far no disasters :P

Forget running wire. Wifi repeater over powerlines. http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Powerline-200Mbps-Access-XAVNB2001/dp/B0046SQ8VW

One of the major purposes of this project is so I can move my gaming PC into the office and use it as a productive programming PC as well.  In order for that to work I still want to use it to game on my 50" TV in the living room.  Therefore, it needs to be a very fast and low latency network to support Steam in home streaming, thus both wifi and powerline are out (wifi because even with 866Mbps right next to the router (802.11ac router + laptop), 720p still has too many network hiccups, and powerline has too much variability for it to be reliable).  Secondary purpose is to stream downloaded videos to my TV.

Run more wires than you think you will need:  while going through the pain of fishing Cat5 through headers, etc, put in a few spares while you are there.  Then if one goes south you can switch to a new one without too much pain.

That's what I figured.  I originally thought to go easy and do one wire from one room to the other with switches on both sides to start easy (kind of like what Mahrin said when he said I was over building) but since I"m doing all this work I figured doing multiple wires wasn't much more effort than the first.  I'm running 12 wires (4 at each drop point) with the expectation that 4-5 will actually be live for now.  
KallDrexx
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Reply #21 on: April 06, 2015, 11:11:39 AM

Well, this weekend I all 3 drop point holes drilled, got the wire paths cleared and drilled for 2 of them (going to need help on the third one just in case I'm not doing something right with it).  

I ran string from the distribution point all the way to the longest run path to get wire length (doing my best to account for slack) and cut the 4 wires for that drop point.  After running the wires they came out probably 15 feet longer than I needed, which I'm OK with since the slack is mostly up in the attic.  I velcro tied the cables to keep things neat-ish up there and got the wires both in the distribution point and the drop with enough on both sides for mistakes.  I also made use of a label maker to label both sides of each wire before running them so that I can keep track of end to end.

At my lunch break I punched down both ends of one of the wires into an rj45 keystone jack.  All excited I hooked my laptop to one end and hooked the other end up to my router (using 2 small cat5e cables I have laying around, that I'm pretty sure work).  Unfortunately, even though the router's LED shows the connection and shows it in a normal light (not red) my laptop can't seem to get an ip address from it. :(

I'm sure I did something wrong in punching the wires down (followed the A spec diagrams) but with a router and laptop it'll probably be difficult to figure out, so I ordered a cheap and well rated rj45 tester and did one day delivery, so hopefully tomorrow I'll figure out what I did wrong.  
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 12:19:55 PM by KallDrexx »
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Reply #22 on: April 06, 2015, 11:39:41 AM

Both ends need to be either T568-A or T568-B. If you do the ends opposite, you will have a crossover. Of course, if your device has gig-E, that is auto MDIX so it shouldn't care if it is straight or crossed.


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KallDrexx
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Reply #23 on: April 06, 2015, 12:21:08 PM

I did both ends as T568-A (or at least attempted to).

*Edit:* Oh wait, I totally forgot about crossover vs straight cables (I haven't done this stuff in a decade.

I hooked up my switch that I"m putting at the distribution point, and then hooked up my laptop to the MDIX switch, and I'm successfully connecting to my router on the other end.  So I guess the issue was hooking a straight cable directly into my laptop.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 12:30:50 PM by KallDrexx »
Merusk
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Reply #24 on: April 06, 2015, 02:18:29 PM

I'm sure I did something wrong in punching the wires down (followed the A spec diagrams) but with a router and laptop it'll probably be difficult to figure out, so I ordered a cheap and well rated rj45 tester and did one day delivery, so hopefully tomorrow I'll figure out what I did wrong.  

The network guy at the office said most things use "B" these days, not A so I don't know if that might be affecting you.  The cable tester should help as you may just not have gotten a pair all the way in the jack. I did that a few times when putting the keystones on and had to redo one twice. 

If you can get access to one that actually shows you how far the signal goes, even better. We had one at the office and it was invaluable.  It showed me where I'd broken the cord when pulling on one line, about 6" into the wall.  awesome, for real Something I'd never have figured out otherwise.

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Reply #25 on: April 06, 2015, 03:19:19 PM

As long as both ends of the connection are the same, A or B doesn't matter.

But yes, in the last 15 years B has become more common in structured ethernet cabling.

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Baldrake
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Reply #26 on: April 06, 2015, 04:56:28 PM

I did this in my old house when we were updating the wiring anyway. (Old knob and tube.) It was awesome, Ethernet drop in every room. I made a little closet to host the central switch. Then I moved, and that was that.

I did install some ethernet over power in the new place, and have found it to work surprisingly well. Not getting 1 Gbps of course. But it's good enough that I feel no hint of an urge to start making holes in walls.
Polysorbate80
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Reply #27 on: April 06, 2015, 08:19:39 PM

Ethernet drop in every room.

I decided not to bother with network lines to every room when we built.  I've got tbree cat6 lines to the home office (with a PoE switch there to run two of the security cameras), two direct-burial lines out to the shop to another switch (more cameras), one line to the first floor utility room just in case, one to the kitchen that's currently wired for phone, two into the basement family room, and 5 lines to the living room (two network, two for HDMI over Ethernet, one for keyboard/mouse extender)

Beyond that, it's all wireless.  Living out in the country is a mixed blessing--my internet is complete shit, but I have zero competition for wireless channels.

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KallDrexx
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Reply #28 on: April 06, 2015, 08:20:06 PM

As long as both ends of the connection are the same, A or B doesn't matter.

But yes, in the last 15 years B has become more common in structured ethernet cabling.

Out of curiosity any reason why?

*Edit* Finished putting the jacks on the last 3 wires for drop #1.  1 came out perfectly (lanbench showing gigabit speeds), 1 looks to be completely dead, and 1 gives a bad connection with barely 5mbit speeds (and a lot of packet loss based on the numbers).  Hopefully the tester that's coming tomorrow will just show I hooked the jacks up badly and I don't have to chase down a broken wire.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 08:35:44 PM by KallDrexx »
KallDrexx
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Reply #29 on: April 07, 2015, 06:17:20 PM

Can you cut and re-wire a rj45 keystone jack, or do I need to throw it out if I have one bad connection?
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Reply #30 on: April 07, 2015, 07:31:28 PM

Can you cut and re-wire a rj45 keystone jack, or do I need to throw it out if I have one bad connection?

You can repunch jacks, as long as the old wires are cleared out.

Unless, of course, they are "tool less". I have had little luck getting those to work a second time.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
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