The neverending Football Manager thread

[Lucas]

(I created the topic so that it can be used for any FM version, no matter the year of release. Also, if you DARE to get started with this, feel free to ask for advice about this legal drug the game and football in general)
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Spreading love the sheets since 1992!! 

http://www.footballmanager.com/
Official Forums

FM '15 features overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIPhF0_S0pQ

Football Manager 2015 comes out in two days (November 7th); there is a demo available (Steam), which let you play for six in-game months. You will be able to carry your save onto the release version.

I was disappointed with last year's release (and I was definitely not alone), mainly because of the match engine, which IMO was a step back compared to the previous years (the FM13 one wasn't that great either), from animation to AI (especially the central defenders AI). I'm reading good reports about '15, it seems they're on the right track.

Among the slew of minor new features and UI adjustments (now there is a permanent sidebar, which takes a bit to get used to, but it's actually an improvement, IMO), this year they're dwelving a bit more into the "character building" of you as a manager:



They did a big motion capture session, especially for goalkeepers, and they also added more stadium styles; I also recommend checking out the "Football Manager Classic" (FMC overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w1LENuG0Pw) version that comes with the game (basically, a "throwback" to the Championship Manager era, but of course with a lot of the features that come with FM) : more accessible learning curve, quicker, less cluttered, a bit more colorful and "welcoming" interace (well, as far as spreadsheets go :P). I think it wil probably be my main choice for this year.

Here's a nice "nostalgia" article that compares Championship Manager '93-'94 to the current game:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2250916-12-ways-fm-2015-has-totally-transformed-from-its-distant-relation-cm9394

[Falconeer]

Fuck. Yeah.

Is all I have to say for now, which means: countless hours of my life will go down the drain pretty soon.

[Lucas]

MODDING THE GAME

- The "game altering" modding of the game can be done through the editor that comes with every retail version ("Tools" section of Steam) and you can change a lot of stuff with it: player attributes, starting financial status of your club, create leagues, fictional players, visualize hidden player attributes and much more. Unfortunately, "I cannot help you with that" because...well, I never used it (*groans and boos from the audience*).

Here's the official forum dedicated to editing (you need to register in order to visualize that particular sub-forum):

http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/25-Editors-Hideaway

Plus, I'm sure there are lots of YT dedicated to the editor: during the last few years, it basically remained the same (more or less), so I'm sure you'll get a good idea by looking at videos talking about the FM '14 one.

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- Then, there's "flavour modding". You can do perfectly fine without it, but when you start, you can't do without it  : the base game comes with stock club and competition logos; flags and trophy icons; player faces and team kits. But, of course, with a database of almost 600,000 players and the incredible amount of playable leagues, they can't cover it all or get every license know to mankind.

Plus, there are dedicated "skinners" that alter the layout of the interface, add new elements, change colours, fonts and so on and so forth.

This site (my main point of reference) is basically heaven for those who want to give a face to that obscure player from the reserve team of an even more obscure scottish second division team:

http://sortitoutsi.net/

You know, if you are into it, it doesn't become that tiresome, because you get to see tons of club logos or kits that sometimes are funny, or colourful, or both (not to mention the hideous expression of some of the players during a photo session :P).

And that's only the beginning: in the last couple years, modders also created club-specific adboards, new scoreboards during matchday, 3D kits used on matchday, new textures for the various pitch condititions.

Yep, it's the Skyrim of spreadsheets 


This sub-section of their forum is the most important one when it comes to graphics:
http://sortitoutsi.net/forums/category/32/football-manager-graphics
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Now, I'm sure everyone in here is proficient enough to look for more specific, technical info about how to install facepacks, logos etc. (all information is basically inside the appropriate category of the sortitoutsi graphic forum), but anyway:

Usually, all the flavour stuff comes in a .rar or .zip file; you then unpack it to Documents/Sports Interactive/Football Manager 2015/graphics (you'll probably have to create the "graphics" folder yourself). Some of the packed files might already include the whole, aforementioned path; so, in that case, you only need to unzip to Documents or Sports Interactive and so on, depending on how the author structured the directory.

The most popular "flavour mod" is the "Cut-out facepack". The player profile, instead of the generic black outline of the head, will show the proper photo of the player, in this case only of his head (hence the "cut-out" definition). For example, here's Lionel Messi:


Through the years, more styles have been created, but some of them have been updated less often. For example, here's an "E-style" player (again, this will appear on your player profile if you choose this style):


Now, it's nice to have "action" stickers, but depending on how OCD you are, you might not like the fact that, after 3 or 4 seasons and a couple transfers, that particular player still shows the kit of the team he started with (and yeah, surprise surprise, this game inevitably brings your OCD side to surface :P).
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Then (and finally, for now), there are skins: same as above regarding the path, but instead of "graphics" they go in the "skins" directory; you then choose your preferred skin from the "preferences" menu inside the game (the in-game manual explains the procedure in detail)

(really) Finally, one thing to keep in mind is that the whole installing procedure of mods is very quick once you get familiar with it, just like it happens with Skyrim. So don't be intimidated by the wall of text I posted above.

[Megrim]

This is one of those games which I would like to play, sometime, in general. Do people run like, multiplayer leagues or something in this?

[Lucas]

This is one of those games which I would like to play, sometime, in general. Do people run like, multiplayer leagues or something in this?

So, here's the online manual:

http://www.footballmanager.com/manual

Regarding multiplayer (never tried it, but I definitely would like to) :

- Hot-Seat Play:

Hot-seat play refers to multiple users acting on the same single saved game at the same computer. To initiate this, the user should first create a new game as normal. Once this has been done, to add new managers, either select ‘Yes’ if/when prompted, or select ‘Add New Manager’ from the ‘Options’ Menu. Once you’re happy with the number of users entered, play as ‘normal’. When one user has completed their tasks for the day and has clicked ‘Continue’, the game will then move onto the next user. When all users have clicked ‘Continue’, the game will progress.

- Online Play:

Online play allows the user to play Football Manager™ 2015 against other users. To start an online game as the host, create a new game as has been described in this manual.

Once the game has been set up and you have chosen a team to manage, you are in a position to host an online game. From the ‘FM’ menu, go to the ‘Game Status’ screen and note the ‘Server IP Address’. You will need to provide this to anyone you intend to allow into your online game.
If you are joining an online game, all you need is the server name from the host. From the Main Menu, select ‘Join Online Game’ and then click ‘Search’ to see a list of servers. If no servers are shown or the server you wish to join isn’t there, enter the name in to the ‘Server Name’ option.

Football Manager™ Classic also features the online Versus competition mode. You and your friends can set up a custom competition and go head-to-head solely against each other if you so wish. Additionally, if each of you wishes to pit your own custom teams against each other from your own offline career games, you can do so by exporting them and using them in your custom competition.

So, the normal "online play" is just like a normal (not local, unlike the "hot-seat" one) career game; the most interesting online game mode, especially in light of the Steam integration that has been happening in the last couple versions, is the "Versus" one, which is only available in Football Manager Classic.

If I recall correctly, in any multiplayer mode, you can set a timer (among other options and conditions) so that the calendar proceeds after a fixed number of minutes: experienced FM players know how easy it is to lose yourself in the humongous amount of data, and soon you realize you spent the last 30 minutes browsing around your tactic, squad, transfer screen or whatever without advancing the calendar any single day :P . Fixing a certain amount in the online versus mode is good for your sanity and your unfocused habits in single-player 

And yeah, that definitely opens the possibility of a F13 league 
 

[Falconeer]

In.

[Megrim]

If it can run like the f13 Blood Bowl league runs - we get about 12~32 players into a league, everyone takes one team each and we play a 'season', say once a week - I would also probably be in for it. Mind you, I'd get my arse kicked, but I would try.

[Lucas]

Good to know :). Hopefully, we'll manage to kick off this idea soon enough.
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Meanwhile, Football Manager 2015 has now been released (v. 15.1.1; no changes from the beta version) !!  

Here's a quick official blog about the editors:

http://www.footballmanager.com/news/game-and-data-editor-blog

The in-game editor costs € 4.49 and it's available in the "Downloads" section on the main page; the "pre-game" Data/competition editor, like I said in a earlier post, will eventually appear in the "Tools" section of Steam.

EDIT: Oh, one thing I think I forgot to mention: this year, Twitch is fully integrated into the game. Can you imagine the thrill of watching someone shuffling around various screens full of text, fixing himself on a 56-years old physiotherapist attribute list for 10 minutes? 

Yeah...no, me neither.

[lamaros]

I think the multiplayer would be too demanding for f13. Things would take way too long if you only advanced time once a week, as advancing time, IIRC doesn't mean 'advance to next game day'. So you'd need to advance it, say, once per day or two days. Which would be a pretty big commitment, even if it's only 5 min here and there.

I don't even know how game day would work? How would you make in game changes against another player's team if you're not online at the same time?

[Megrim]

Well if the matches are scheduled to be played every three days (for example), people can make the changes at any time up until the game, then it automatically executes the match?

[lamaros]

Matches involve cards, injuries, substitutions, formation changes, etc.

Unless the online mode has a 'all matches will be auto resolved' option. Which I guess it could.

[veredus]

That's kind of annoying they are charging for the editor this year. Half the fun for me is using my own league. Been using a North and South American super league I built with the 2010 editor for several years now. Just load up the file in the new editor every year and fix some things and good to go. Oh well, this game gives me so many hours of playtime still totally worth it.

[Falconeer]

The biggest problem in the old versions was that basically all players of the League needed to be online at the same time for the game to advance. While I understand how it would be hard for such a game to work any differently, this is exactly what has prevented me and my friends from starting a new league since we stopped meeting in person three nights a week just for this from 1997 to 1999 (   ) .

So, basically, can the game time-day advance without all players online at the same time now? Last time I checked it was hotseat over LAN/internet, which is just not feasible unless it's three or four people with matching gaming schedules.

[HaemishM]

I don't know how it DOES work, but it seems to me the only way a multiplayer league could work is if the between game days stuff is handled almost like play by email. Do all your shit, advance and the only time your stuff touches other players is if you have some interaction with another player's team (transfer, loan, or something). Then game days are scheduled and opponents must be online at the same time to play the game (just like BloodBowl) and the game day doesn't advance until all games are played. Mangers who can't make their games in person can set something to auto resolve or to use AI based on that player's coaching profile.

Not saying that's how it works, but that's probably how it should work.

[Ruvaldt]

Question for those of you familiar with previous entries:

How much football knowledge does it actually take to enjoy/play the game?

Everything I see and read about this series appeals to me except for the football part, which I know very little about.  It isn't that I dislike football, but it isn't something that I'm passionate about or will watch in my spare time either.  I know it seems like a weird question considering that this is a game that simulates a football manager's career, but the team management aspect really appeals to me.  The idea of taking over a sports franchise, building/managing a team, making tactical decisions, etc, sounds like a good time to me, but can it be enjoyed without an existing appreciation for the game?

[HaemishM]

I think it can be, but as someone who has put over 100 hours in the last 3 iterations, my biggest learning curve has been how to apply player roles properly in the game tactics for team selection. I still don't have it down but that's probably the most vital part to putting together a team that's winning. Understanding what roles fit what tactics and when your chosen tactics aren't working.

[Falconeer]

I honestly think it requires pretty much zero football knowledge to be enjoyed. I've been calling this game an RPG in disguise since the 90s, so it's actually about understanding the mechanics and figuring out the rules and stats as you would do in any other RPG that comes with unfamiliar mechanics or names for stats: you'll do fine once you got the fundamentals. There's also so much RNG involved that no matter how good (or bad) some of your strategies can be, the results can force everyone in the room to wonder what the fuck is going on (and smash things while yelling against the football gods).

[Ruvaldt]

There's also so much RNG involved that no matter how good (or bad) some of your strategies can be, the results can force everyone in the room to wonder what the fuck is going on (and smash things while yelling against the football gods).

So...like Blood Bowl then?

[HaemishM]

No, it's not nearly so random as that.

[Montague]

I honestly think it requires pretty much zero football knowledge to be enjoyed. I've been calling this game an RPG in disguise since the 90s, so it's actually about understanding the mechanics and figuring out the rules and stats as you would do in any other RPG that comes with unfamiliar mechanics or names for stats: you'll do fine once you got the fundamentals. There's also so much RNG involved that no matter how good (or bad) some of your strategies can be, the results can force everyone in the room to wonder what the fuck is going on (and smash things while yelling against the football gods).

The RNG is there but for the most part results are logical, the reason why though may just not be readily available to the player. Giving up last minute goals may be because your defenders don't cope with pressure well (low hidden pressure attribute).  Conceding a lot of set piece goals can be due to shorter defenders that can't win headers. Strikers going through on goal but spurning chances may have low composure, etc. Some of the match engines are better than others though. Personally I stick to 2010.

[KallDrexx]

Is it as ruthless for a newbie to get into as Blood Bowl?

I tried to play Blood Bowl, got through the tutorial thinking "ok this makes sense" then got curb stomped immediately and had no idea why...

[Falconeer]

Yes, of course, it is NOT the Blood Bowl kind of RNG and as in any RPG since forever you can immensely affect and modify the dice rolls (it's the whole point of gear, equip, loot, level up and so on). My point was just that what matters the most is not your actual football knowledge but your understanding of the rpg engine, glossary, modifiers and rock-paper-scissors mechanics of certain tactics.

Football Manager has been doing an amazing job at making things look realistic for twenty years now but that's a magic trick mostly performed due to hidden modifiers and the fact that, well, even in real world football the worst team in a league beats the world champions. So when that happens in the game it makes you want to ragequit and destroy your keyboard but at the same time you love it because you can't just win all the matches and the unpredictability factor (RNG) keeps it fresh.

So while it's undeniable that understanding the underlying min-maxing and numbers-driven nature of the simulation is incredibly important, I wouldn't necessarily say that has to do with any real knowledge of football other than common sense (check what you are being beaten on and improve that aspect/player). This also explains why I can do decently, after enough tries, in Baseball simulations even though I know nothing about that sport. And I am not bashing this game. I think it's one of the best thing ever made since the dawn of computers. Just trying to explain my years and years of analysis of my own rage and joy about it.


FAKE EDIT to address KallDrexx's question:

It depends on what team you choose to start with. If it's a very good one you are gonna win matches without understanding why. If you pick a terrible one you are gonna lose a lot of matches without being able to find a solution for a long time. As I said, especially at first, in my opinion it all has to do much more with your ability to adapt to a set of rules, numbers, stats, and mechanics that you don't know, than with your knowledge of the sport they flavoured this mathematical engine with.

Anyway, Steam has the demo. Try it out. It's totally worth it.

[Lucas]

I pretty much agree on everything Falcooner wrote in his post.
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Now, if you have some knowledge of football, you are passionate about the sport and so on, of course the game is even funnier because you compare yourself to RL managers, you make comparisons on how a player behaves in the game and in RL, etc (and in general, you can judge the impressive level of fidelity of the simulation from an objective point of view).

But yeah, at the core, it's similar to a RPG with underlying modifiers (dungeons & dragons DC: dribbling vs marking/tackling/composure, for example), so you can take a "scientific" (or min/max) approach to it all, by just knowing the fundamental rules of the sport (including the player roles; consider, anyway, that in the tactics screen roles and positions are extensively explained via tooltips).
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My suggestion: start with the "Football Manager Classic" mode and pick a team from the english conference north or south. Team roster is minimal, you don't need to think about particularly fancy tactics (a 4-4-2 will do), transfer market is not hectic, training is perfectly manageable (and less involved compared to the "normal" version).

And yeah, sooner or later I'll try OOTP Baseball too; I also dream about the day someone will make an American Football sim with the same level of fidelity FM has (and why not, even a basketball one).

[Shannow]

I will not buy this game. I will not buy this game. I will not buy this game.

Willpower fading.....

(A game that combines my love of one more turn strategy and soccer?...this is life ruining crack for me)

ps I'm almost ashamed to ask but any FIFA players out there? It's my dirty dark shame but god knows I love it. Even if being beaten by 12 year olds makes me want to do this occasionally.

[HaemishM]

Yep, that's me playing FIFA.  I haven't played since FIFA13 I think. I bought Football Manager that same year and it scratches the itch much better. Doesn't help that I'm pretty rubbish at the arcade-y bits of FIFA.

[Lucas]

I'm a PES guy, sorry  
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So, let's see if I can provide some VERY EARLY basics for a beginner Football Manager (Classic mode) player, trying his/her luck in a lower league (let's say, as before, an English conference north/south team; but it applies to conference premier or english league 2 as well, to a certain extent).

1. You're hired

Yep, that's the first thing that happens in a new game, although you can decide to start a new game unemployed. Three things immediately happen:

- President warmly welcomes you to the team (yeah right)
- Your wage (weekly, monthly, yearly, depending on how you set it in the preferences screen) is set
- Team salary and transfer market "soft" caps are set, depending on how you think your team will fare in the coming season

2. Friendlies and Staff roster

- Friendlies
So, your team gather for a new season: it's time to have a look at your friendlies between now and the start of the new season; one piece of advice for the "Classic" mode: set a friendly match with your reserve team the day after the beginning of the game.

Friendlies, just like pretty much any other team sport, help you build player individual form and match condition, not to mention experiment with tactics;

Feel free to add more friendlies, but the last one should be max. one week ahead of the first "official" league/cup match, not later, so that the team isn't fatigued (it's pretty much common sense)

- Staff roles

In lower leagues, you need a good physio, at least one good "all-around" coach and a decent assistant manager; if, in your current roster, a staff role isn't covered or those that you have aren't good enough, go ahead and sack them. But be sure to get at least a good physio.

2.Take a long hard look at your team...

...Then shake your head in despair, present your letter of resignation to the President, go to the local pub and gulp down a whisky.

... to each and every player of your main team: in Notepad, Word or whatever, write down what you think are the strong and weak aspects of that player (including what position and role you think he would fit best), without looking at the Assistant report: you will do that only after, so that you aren't spoiled by his opinion.

So, in lower leagues, you'll quickly realize that...maybe some positions on the pitch aren't covered AT ALL by your current players, or maybe there is only one player that can play, let's say, as a Wide Left Midfielder, so that, if he gets injured, you are in trouble.

At the same time, given your players supposed (horrible) capabilities (and also how many players can be placed in a certain position on the pitch), you'll start getting an idea about what tactic would fit them best.

3. Yep, you guessed that right...Time to look at the transfer market!

Not much to be said (just remember we're always talking about lower league management, here): depending on your tactics, beside the player holding a certain pitch position in your first team, you should have a couple more acting as rotation/backup player for that position if the main one gets injured/is fatigue/runs in a string of bad form.

- No matter the tactic, you should have a strong striker (strength, heading, jumping plus decent finishing if possible) and a quicker one (pace, agility, dribbling plus decent finishing if possible)

- No matter the tactic, you should have at least one central midfielder that acts as the "creative mind" of the team (think Pirlo, Xavi etc.) and one that basically think only about killing whatever opposing player he faces, while also looking at that strange spherical thing on the pitch, from time to time :P

In my next post, I'll try explaining the most basic formation for lower league management, the 4-4-2 (if others want to chime in about that tactic or anything I've written in this, feel free of course) and some general common sense about the tactic instuctions the game allow you to choose from.

[veredus]

Something to keep in mind if you're new to FM. This tends to be one of those games that gets a lot better after a couple of patches, specially the match engine. Also since the changes every year aren't always huge and if you don't feel you need to have the latest version you can buy last years for half the price. As an added bonus it's already had all its patches.

[Lucas]

Something to keep in mind if you're new to FM. This tends to be one of those games that gets a lot better after a couple of patches, specially the match engine. Also since the changes every year aren't always huge and if you don't feel you need to have the latest version you can buy last years for half the price. As an added bonus it's already had all its patches.

Yeah, you can even go for the 2013 version (unfortunately, you can't find it anymore on Steam or GMG. It's retail or nothing, I think) : price is even lower and, IMO, match engine was better than the '14 one (2013 was the first version that included the "Classic" mode). The only "con": the 2014 game introduced significant changes to the tactics screen, from this (2013):


To this (2014):


And that's just "team" tactics: you can also set individual tactics for each player (that was always the case with every FM incarnation, I think), that gets priority over the general ones.

[Lucas]

Unfortunately I still haven't had the chance of playing this extensively, but I finally managed to watch my first (friendly) match (4-2 against my reserve team. If you are curious, I'm the manager of Havant & Waterlooville, English Conference South) and boy...Engine is leaps and bounds better when it comes to animations; "skating" is far less noticeable and passing length and precision are more accurate (meaning, expected trajectory, "weight" of the pass and similar aspects), it definitely has a different feel, at least for me. My central defenders were abysmal, through passes cut...well, through them a bit too easily :P.

[Falconeer]

In my demo campaign with Colwyn Bay (the bottomest team available in the whole demo I think, English lowest division with the lowest chances of surviving relegation) I lost my first 5 matches in a row, only to finally sign a decent player and win three matches in a row (including two big upsets) and then that player got injured for 2 months OF COURSE, and so I lost the next three matches in a row again by a huge margin. Not impressed with the engine simulation, unless that free agent player I signed from the unemployed list happened to be Messi in disguise.

And yeah, sooner or later I'll try OOTP Baseball too; I also dream about the day someone will make an American Football sim with the same level of fidelity FM has (and why not, even a basketball one).

And don't forget Eastside Hockey Manager!

[Shannow]

That website is so ... . . hockey. awesome!

[Lucas]

Regarding the match engine, I confirm the improvements compared to last year's version; still, I think crosses/corners are a bit too dangerous, something that is being reported quite often on the official forums. And yes, injuries and knocks need to be toned down a bit. But, all in all, these are minor flaws compared to last year's more fundamental ones (especially regarding the central defenders).
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Also, I would like to talk a bit more in detail about the online modes and what they entail, based on a little more research:

- the online career modes are definitely for the "hardcore": there is no "asynchronous" play and, on the other hand, a lot of common sense "etiquette" involved when it comes to advancing the calendar (no matter the automatic advances of the calendar you can set up in the preferences);

The human players involved in an online career mode (FM or Classic) need to manage their teams just like you would expect in single player, from pre-season friendlies and onward (including transfers, training, etc.).

One thing that would make things a bit easier and faster: start an online career with Football Manager Classic (a lot less things to keep track of), and choose a minor league with only a handful of teams and less crowded rosters, for example Scottish League Two (ten teams).

- Otherwise, there are the "versus" competitions:

Keep in mind this: with any of the following modes, you can either choose a team from the database (just like you would in single-player), or import your team/s from your single player save/s. Also, there's no transfer market; training is present only for the league mode.

* Cup (2-32 teams, knockout format with only a single match, no home & away).
* League (2-6 teams, playing each other twice)
* Head-to-head league (two teams, playing each other five times)

1)Now, head-to-head leagues: well, they can set disputes like "Is my single-player Real Madrid stronger than yours"? ;)

2) League or Cup: let's say you and your friends already played a multi-season single-player campaign and decide to import your teams to the "versus" league. Maybe one team is a 2nd season Real Madrid, while yours is Colwyn Bay on their 9th season after they
rose from the depths of the english lower leagues to european greatness, and so on for other teams.  Or, you just pick teams of similar level from the normal game database, and set up a cup or league (let's say, an european superleague with Real Madrid, Manchester City, Bayern Munchen, Barcellona, Juventus and PSG).

Now, League or Cup in "versus" mode would be feasible. Of course, that means no "progression" whatsoever: no transfer market, your players don't get better etc, no seasons, no continuity.Things would change slightly with imported teams (each have their own progression made in single-player), but that would assume a certain amount of work already put in single-player.

[Lucas]

I just lost an away match 1-6, and I'm really angry and I need to vent and smash things. Ergo, in place of devastating my gaming hive, I'll post the following emoticons:

 

 

[veredus]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that this game makes angry sometimes. 

[Falconeer]

I feel you. I am not kidding, I am forbidding myself to play, it enrages me too much and I am starting to feel too old to have my day ruined by a fucking RNG. Hell, it's why I took a long break from Blood Bowl, it was seriously damaging me.